Another One About Jones
Hello all. I have been around for a while, but since this is only my second post I thought I might start with the above mentioned- Hello.
I have reviewed many of the past posts concerning the hiring process at EDJ, but until today I hadn’t experienced it first hand. To begin with I was not hired. As a matter of fact, I received a letter stating something to the effect that the they have decided not to move forward. All this even before the phone interview. This being the case, I can only assume that my application did not sit well with the HR department. I would like to ask some of the more experienced board members a few questions to determine a few possible weak points before continuing my search in the field.
First, I am 39 and recently returned to college to finish my degree. I am slated to finish with a BS in Aviation in the fall of 2010, with a minor in Finance. I am currently a furloughed airline pilot who is working as a boat captain in the Gulf of Mexico oil transportation industry. I have also worked as a commercial mortgage broker and owned a small company in Mozambique which primarily dealt with sales of mining and timber equipment.
I have a lot of experience in phone sales and cold calling and I actively trade equities and futures. So, while I have a working knowledge of the markets and actually like the challenge of cold calling, I have zero experience in managing other peoples money.
I know that my background in no way makes me a “good catch” for any of the respectable firms like EDJ, et al., but I certainly thought that my sales and mortgage background would at least warrant a call back from the higher ups.
Having reviewed my resume I found several areas which I consider weak areas, other than my lack of a degree I would appreciate some feed back on the following points:
As a boat captain/SCUBA Instructor/Pilot, my employment for many years was seasonal and contractual. Though I would work for the same company for many years, and some concurrently, the jobs which I held in the ‘off-season’ made my employment history a bit long.
Excepting the mortgage broker position, the rest of my employment history was on a salaried basis which I believe is in direct contrast with what EDJ wanted to see as a history of rising commissioned sales.
To sum up, will my long, irrelevant, employment history be an insurmountable obstacle in this industry? Or, should I take a commission only sales job for a year or so to prove my ability to survive in a similar field?
I have also submitted a U-10 for the 65/63 combo in hopes to increase my marketability; it seems a small price to pay for the potential return.
Thanks in advance for all the replies and advice. Also, to all of the senior guys and ladies here, your posts have been educational and entertaining.
I realize the 65/63 is not a combo. I simply meant that I have signed up for both.
Since you asked, let's look at it from the HR point of view: You don't have a degree. The degree you are trying to get is in aviation. Granted you are attempting to have a minor in finance, but rarely is anyone ever hired based on their minor. You are currently completely outside the realm of finance.
In fact, if I were reading your resume, I might think you were actually Captain Ron. Or Morgan. Or Dan. Doesn't really matter. The business in Mozambique - seriously? That one alone would give me pause. Everyone and their brother has been in the mortgage business. That's not something unique or even applicable to being an FA. Also, the fact that you trade your own account won't even be on the radar screen, much less a deciding factor. From the HR point of view you have nothing that would lead me to believe you'd be a better FA than the other 10,000 people who applied this month. I don't think a long work history is specifically a bad thing, but you don't have enough good things to balance it out.What Spiff means is that you should move to St Louis and help train new FA's for a good length of time and then you would be qualified for LP and probably an office as a Financial Advisor..
Just joking Spiff....[quote=noggin]
What Spiff means is that you should move to St Louis and help train new FA's for a good length of time and then you would be qualified for LP and probably an office as a Financial Advisor..
Just joking Spiff....[/quote]I know that my background in no way makes me a “good catch” for any of the respectable firms like EDJ, et al., but I certainly thought that my sales and mortgage background would at least warrant a call back from the higher ups.
Won’t be rude or dismissive, but I’ll tell you what I mention in recruiting people to EDJ:
The biggest single thing that predetermines success at Jones is attitude, and that is substantiated in your history by progressive success in the face of daunting odds. It's not so important that your history is working in food service - it's that you started in foodservice, working two fulltime jobs as a dishwasher at two different jobs while you were homeless, then eventually became a shift manager at one store, then eventually became a chef, then left that business ... Nothing ... nothing at all ... in what you wrote indicates any successive success. You appear to have wandered around life without a plan, and nearly all of your ventures ended in failure. I suggest you start succeeding at something.Are you still allowed within 1000 feet of a school or Chuckie Cheese? If the answer is no, it may hinder your shot.
[quote=LockEDJ]You appear to have wandered around life without a plan, and nearly all of your ventures ended in failure.
I suggest you start succeeding at something.[/quote] OUCH!!! (Truth hurts.)This will definitely help. Especially if the company has benchmarks set and you exceed their expectations.…Should I take a commission only sales job for a year or so to prove my ability to survive in a similar field?
Thanks for all the great replies. To answer one specifically: LockEDJ,
where in my post did you read anything about my ventures failing or being without direction? As
far as my businesses, I thought EDJ held the entrepreneur in high
regard? The three businesses which I have built from the nothing I sold for a nice profit. Do you think it is not an accomplishment to fly for a major US
airline? Isn’t working your way through the ranks as a flight
instructor at 500-800 dollars a month until you build enough time to interview with an airline, then making it through a training program that has a 50%
fail rate considered a success? To me, the responsibility of flying a aircraft full of men, women and children six miles above the earth at 500+ knots is not something to take lightly. Furlough means laid off. The aviation industry is not a
meritocracy, it is all based on seniority. You could be the best pilot in the industry, but if the bean counters determine that the airline can only be profitable with 2000 pilots and you are number 2001- oh well. I understand that I invited honest comments, and I appreciate the feedback- whether I liked the answers or not- but to call me a failure is a bit odd considering that the information you were provided gave no indication of outcome. I know where you are coming from and I can certainly see how the information which I gave could be misinterpreted. Thanks for the help, in the future I will shape my resume to better show progressive successes.
You have just answered your own questions! I've seen used car salesman, hair product saleswomen, and a former bartender (no joke, not just a part time gig in college) get hired. Something with the way you presented yourself in your resume, that or you said you vote democrat.Thanks for all the great replies. To answer one specifically: LockEDJ, where in my post did you read anything about my ventures failing or being without direction? As far as my businesses, I thought EDJ held the entrepreneur in high regard? The three businesses which I have built from the nothing I sold for a nice profit. Do you think it is not an accomplishment to fly for a major US airline? Isn’t working your way through the ranks as a flight instructor at 500-800 dollars a month until you build enough time to interview with an airline, then making it through a training program that has a 50% fail rate considered a success? To me, the responsibility of flying a aircraft full of men, women and children six miles above the earth at 500+ knots is not something to take lightly. Furlough means laid off. The aviation industry is not a meritocracy, it is all based on seniority. You could be the best pilot in the industry, but if the bean counters determine that the airline can only be profitable with 2000 pilots and you are number 2001- oh well. I understand that I invited honest comments, and I appreciate the feedback- whether I liked the answers or not- but to call me a failure is a bit odd considering that the information you were provided gave no indication of outcome. I know where you are coming from and I can certainly see how the information which I gave could be misinterpreted. Thanks for the help, in the future I will shape my resume to better show progressive successes.
Maybe Jones has tightened the hiring process, but I went through training with guys who had no degree, were in their 20's and couldn't spell CAT. I have also seen them hire guys with very little career success and were in their 50's. Tell EJ to f'off. They aren't the end all be all.
I’m going to be fair and state that IF you really feel Jones is the best firm for you, go visit with an established advisor and see if you can sell yourself to them. I have heard that a strong recommendation from a seg 4 or 5 advisor can go a long way at EDJ.
[quote=DCnew]I’m going to be fair and state that IF you really feel Jones is the best firm for you, go visit with an established advisor and see if you can sell yourself to them. I have heard that a strong recommendation from a seg 4 or 5 advisor can go a long way at EDJ. [/quote]
I second that.
You were rejected by a Jones HR person – i.e., most likely a failed broker.
Get yourself an advocate and make another run at it.
Agreed. I have a friend still at Jones who was rejected and actually went back and asked why. Ended up getting hired, started from scratch and hit seg 3 inside of 3 years.[quote=DCnew]I’m going to be fair and state that IF you really feel Jones is the best firm for you, go visit with an established advisor and see if you can sell yourself to them. I have heard that a strong recommendation from a seg 4 or 5 advisor can go a long way at EDJ. [/quote]
I second that.
You were rejected by a Jones HR person – i.e., most likely a failed broker.
Get yourself an advocate and make another run at it.
When I finished playing football, I applied at Jones and did not make it past the personality test. After being in the industry and knowing what they are looking for, I applied again 4 years later and was hired. Wait a few months, and apply again knowing that they are looking for a sales oriented, outgoing, and a over-achieving individual. Having a EDJ FA does not hurt, but I had two the first time applied and it got me nowhere.
It looks like your career path is all over the place. And the fact that they can and will dig into your entire history isn't helping either. I'm not saying you've done anything wrong; it's just with 10,000 new resume's a month, it's tough for you to make that strong first impression.
[quote=Billy Mays]Have you ever thought about becoming Vice President of the United States:
Sarah Palin goes to college: She attended Hawaii Pacific University in the fall of 1982 and North Idaho College in the spring and fall of 1983. She attended the University of Idaho in the fall of 1984 and spring of 1985, and attended Matan*ska-Susitna College in the fall of 1985. She returned to the University of Idaho in the spring of 1986, receiving her bachelor's degree in communications with an emphasis in journalism from there in 1987.[/quote]I am detecting sarcasm.
[quote=Billy Mays] …
[/quote]
Man, let it go. I don’t like her either, but now you’re just baiting.
Well the answer to why you were not hired is obvious… You should of put on your resume that you used to dig ditches… That would of sealed the deal and you would be knocking on doors… HA HA
Do you actually know anyone who works at the EDJ headquarters? I mean, know them, like pick up the phone and call a buddy know them. If not, then perhaps you shouldn't say things about people you don't know. Our HR people are very good at what they do. The ones that I know have HR degrees and are very well qualified to do what they do.[quote=DCnew]I’m going to be fair and state that IF you really feel Jones is the best firm for you, go visit with an established advisor and see if you can sell yourself to them. I have heard that a strong recommendation from a seg 4 or 5 advisor can go a long way at EDJ. [/quote]
I second that.
You were rejected by a Jones HR person – i.e., most likely a failed broker.
Get yourself an advocate and make another run at it.
I find it funny that some people of the forum operate under the assumption that anyone who isn’t a broker, is a failed broker.
[quote=noggin]
What Spiff means is that you should move to St Louis and help train new FA's for a good length of time and then you would be qualified for LP and probably an office as a Financial Advisor..
Just joking Spiff....[/quote] Actually, that's not a bad plan. Some time in the business would be a benefit to a lot of people before they hit the streets and start investing people's money. PASS program might be a good option too.[quote=Spaceman Spiff][quote=noggin]
What Spiff means is that you should move to St Louis and help train new FA's for a good length of time and then you would be qualified for LP and probably an office as a Financial Advisor..
Just joking Spiff....[/quote] Actually, that's not a bad plan. Some time in the business would be a benefit to a lot of people before they hit the streets and start investing people's money. PASS program might be a good option too. [/quote] Learning why and how you do it is never a bad idea before you do it.This coming from a compliance guy...who is CLEARLY a failed broker himself! [/quote] And Henry Ford almost got it right when he said that everyone would always want to drive a black model T. For all those new, the best money you can spend is to buy your compliance person a beer or if another state, send them an occasional bag of Reeses Peanut Butter cups and watch how some things will melt away. To the OP, keep trying, if you are committed you will figure out a way.[quote=Wet_Blanket]I find it funny that some people of the forum operate under the assumption that anyone who isn’t a broker, is a failed broker.
Not suggesting the PASS program necessarily (though I think it’s good for those people), but I always felt that there should be an “apprentice” process in this business, sort of like qualifying for your CPA (ex: working for three years under another licensed CPA).
Unfortunately, it's more like the real estate business. Pass the exams, find a broker, and you have a job. This would help move our industry to more of a "profession" than a "sales job". Only problem is, professions like law and taxes are more science. In our profession, there is no one way to do things. No tax code or law library. A million ways to get to the same answer.Do you actually know anyone who works at the EDJ headquarters? I mean, know them, like pick up the phone and call a buddy know them. If not, then perhaps you shouldn't say things about people you don't know. Our HR people are very good at what they do. The ones that I know have HR degrees and are very well qualified to do what they do. [/quote] Spoken like a true management robot stiff[/quote] Just spoken like a guy who knows people that B&H just insulted.[quote=Spaceman Spiff][quote=buyandhold] [quote=DCnew]I’m going to be fair and state that IF you really feel Jones is the best firm for you, go visit with an established advisor and see if you can sell yourself to them. I have heard that a strong recommendation from a seg 4 or 5 advisor can go a long way at EDJ. [/quote]
I second that.
You were rejected by a Jones HR person – i.e., most likely a failed broker.
Get yourself an advocate and make another run at it.
This coming from a compliance guy...who is CLEARLY a failed broker himself! [/quote] Hah, sorry to disappoint but Compliance has been my interest since day 1 in the industry.[quote=Wet_Blanket]I find it funny that some people of the forum operate under the assumption that anyone who isn’t a broker, is a failed broker.
what are the qualifications for getting hired at jones?
Hey, Spiff, I didn’t mean to insult the Jones HR guys. Just trying to make a point that if you want to do something, don’t let one rejection stop you.
Hey thanks for all the great replies. I spoke with some other furloughed pilots and it seems that I am not the only one in this boat. Apparently, (and obviously) when HR personnel see “furloughed” on a resume’ they know that, when recalled, most pilots will drop their current job to return to flying. I guess it is a bit of a catch-22; legally I have to disclose that I still hold seniority at my previous job, but when I do I become a risk as no one want’s to spend training dollars on someone who they feel may leave with little notice. Thanks again all.
[quote=Wet_Blanket]I find it funny that some people of the forum operate under the assumption that anyone who isn’t a broker, is a failed broker.
This coming from a compliance guy…who is CLEARLY a failed broker himself! [/quote]
Can’t make a living selling, so why not stop everyone else from making a living selling?
But remember, they are here to protect us!
[quote=iceco1d][quote=Wet_Blanket]I find it funny that some people of the forum operate under the assumption that anyone who isn’t a broker, is a failed broker.
This coming from a compliance guy…who is CLEARLY a failed broker himself! [/quote]
Hah, sorry to disappoint but Compliance has been my interest since day 1 in the industry.[/quote]
And little boys also? Douche Bag
[quote=Vikram Pandit] [quote=Wet_Blanket] [quote=iceco1d][quote=Wet_Blanket]I find it funny that some people of the forum operate under the assumption that anyone who isn’t a broker, is a failed broker.[/quote]
This coming from a compliance guy...who is CLEARLY a failed broker himself! [/quote]
Hah, sorry to disappoint but Compliance has been my interest since day 1 in the industry.[/quote]
And little boys also? Douche Bag[/quote] Vikram, something tells me you were hurt before - don't hide your feelings. If a compliance officer molested you, you can tell me. Just know that not all of us are like that.
compliance does seem to get a lot of sh*t…why all the hatred?
haha no. and to be completely honest, I’ve only had to deal with them 1 time thus far…had to get a 407 letter b/c the client was a bank employee…It wasn’t a brutal experience but not great either…Does it not get any better?
[quote=donte_drink&drive]haha no. and to be completely honest, I’ve only had to deal with them 1 time thus far…had to get a 407 letter b/c the client was a bank employee…It wasn’t a brutal experience but not great either…Does it not get any better?
[/quote]
better…oh yeah it gets better. my compliance guy sends me cards and candy all the time. He loves to play the rusty trombone. Ask your guy about that, its an inside compliance thing. You’ll be on top in no time {no pun}.
GL
Jack
great…I’m gripped with anticipation
[quote=jackofalltrades]
[quote=donte_drink&drive]haha no. and to be completely honest, I’ve only had to deal with them 1 time thus far…had to get a 407 letter b/c the client was a bank employee…It wasn’t a brutal experience but not great either…Does it not get any better?
[/quote]better…oh yeah it gets better. my compliance guy sends me cards and candy all the time. He loves to play the rusty trombone. Ask your guy about that, its an inside compliance thing. You’ll be on top in no time {no pun}.GLJack[/quote]
WHAHAHAHA!
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