Advice on Firm and Current Situation
Here's the Situation:
Offers from ML,MS, and EJ. Wife in Medical School Graduating in May 09 We may have to move next summer for her residency and will be somewhere else for 3-4 years. How concerned should I be about this move being a possiblity? Would this be a death knell to my business? I want to take the ML job, but would another firm make more sense givin the circumstances? Thanks for the advice.Assume when you move out of state, 90% of your clients will not follow you. I’m not sure that with this much moving in your future this is the right business for you.
With residencies, fellowships, and long term jobs as a physician it’s impossible to know where you’re going to be 10 years from now. I agree that with a company like ML you might be better off. Keep in mind this is my outsider’s opinion, as I’m not yet in this business. It seems to me though that EDJ wouldn’t be a good fit, since you’d be building your business based on face to face interaction and then up and leaving in a few years. It would be hard to keep those clients. At least with a wirehouse you can prospect not just locally, but in areas where your wife is applying for her residency. With local clients you gain, you could try to keep them after moving by coming back to town twice a year for a face to face review meeting. Take that advice for what it’s worth (nothing), but hopefully it helps.
Good luck to you and your wife!!!
Thanks for the advice.
I'm thinking of staying home for 1 year during her internship. This would given me about 2 years in one location. I could then sell or house and move to the location of her residency. We would be there for 3 years at least. After that we would live somewhere permanent. I have no idea where the residency will be.Also, I’m leaning toward ML too. I think the training would be better, higher salary, and I think I would have a higher client retention from the move.
Geez Ice …are we always on the same page???
Bull - Just a few thoughts to ponder. When you are interviewing ask the prospective employer about your multiple moves. I think you may well be in for a shock.
The example you are suggesting : 1) Hired in San Diego ( work there for a year ) , 2) Move to Miami ( work there for three years ) and 3) Finally relocate to Syracuse. You then tell all your clients you are now finally settled in one location. Being logical this is a CLIENT business that requires your undivided attention and you need to retain them. Do you really think they are going to follow your travels????? One other point - the employer. What is the benefit to them.Boy from a location standpoint you reaally went downhill! Syracuse?? I grew up there and would never live there voluntarily.
If you let your prospective employer know about the upcoming moves, i think you are done. Why would a Branch Manager be willing to pay your salary and training costs, if he knows that in a year or two, just when you are about to ramp up, you;ll be gone.?
I’m thinking of staying home for 1 year during her internship.
Why? What's the point of being married?I actually told the VP at ML that i may move in 2 years. He said that whether i stay or go to another ml branch isn’t going to make or break him, but he was concerned about my long term success with the move. I was pleasantly suprised that he even considered my well being.
[quote=bullinachinashop]I actually told the VP at ML that i may move in 2 years. He said that whether i stay or go to another ml branch isn’t going to make or break him, but he was concerned about my long term success with the move. I was pleasantly suprised that he even considered my well being.[/quote]
I think he loves you.
I actually told the VP at ML that i may move in 2 years. He said that whether i stay or go to another ml branch isn’t going to make or break him, but he was concerned about my long term success with the move. I was pleasantly suprised that he even considered my well being.
I don't think you quite get it. He was pleased to hear that you are going to work hard for him for two years, then leave a bunch of assets behind in his office when you move. Don't be mislead. Just being honest.
I would not recommend you pursue being an advisor until you and your wife settle in a permanent location. It may seem that you would be a more attractive hire for someone if you were already licensed and two years into the business, but that’s not the case, particularly if you are coming from across the country. You may end up in a location that won’t have a branch of the firm you are with – then there would be issues of training costs, etc. The first three years in this business, gathering your initial assets, is a killer – that’s why the fail out rate is so high. You are talking about doing those two years over again at a new location. It just doesn’t make sense.
Now, you could consider an insurance broker/dealer. That wouldn't be a bad background for the spouse of a physician to have... the insurance business would be more portable, and you have a natural market who have a desperate need for insurance products.Maybe your right… I don’t get it.
Are you saying that if i move from one merrill lynch location to another that i will have to leave all aum at the previous location? I understand that some clients will stay with the local branch, but what about the all the other clients. I should be able to get 5m just from family and friends that don't even live in my current state. Surely i don't have to leave those assets just to move locations?I’d look at ML. You have the ability to move from one office to another (I know several guys who have worked in three offices within 10 years). There have even been articles in-house of how senior advisors have moved their practices from one state to another. If you are profitable they will work with you.
Bull - Vast majority of your clients will want an advisor they can sit down with, face-to-face. Yes, you could take them with you, if they are willing. Most won't want to and will feel as if you mislead them when you became their advisor because you knew you were going to move away. And if you tell them you'll be moving, or they ask what your wife does, it will dramatically reduce your success in getting their business.
Sure, you can take friends and families with you, but even if that gets you to 5m in assets, that won't be enough to survive on.
Bondo - hate to tell you that Mother Merrill doesn't have branches everywhere. He isn't going to have as much choice in their relocations as those brokers, he's got to go where wife is accepted for her residency. May have more choice on where they will eventually live once she's practicing. I've got two homes and no ML office for at least 45 miles (and my second home is an affluent area). Yeah, it might work, but what if he goes through building a book and then moves where there is no ML office??? I just don't see it as being worth the risk. I still like the idea of an insurance B/D - Mass Mutual, etc.[quote=bullinachinashop] Maybe your right… I don’t get it.
Are you saying that if i move from one merrill lynch location to another that i will have to leave all aum at the previous location? I understand that some clients will stay with the local branch, but what about the all the other clients. I should be able to get 5m just from family and friends that don’t even live in my current state. Surely i don’t have to leave those assets just to move locations?[/quote]
Certainly you can move them. But unless they are great clients and have a great connection with you (which often takes years to develop), they are eventually going to want a local advisor again).
Also, consider that you will have to re-establish a local presence again. Keep in mind,most people do business with people they know and like, not new people to the area or ones that cold call them.
Joe,
Keep in mind, this guy is talking about moving every couple years. I think the % that would move would be much higher if you move and stay with the same firm (thus avoiding the paperwork thing), but if you are forced to change firms, it is going to be tough with a client you have only had for 3 months.I will have to move either once or twice in the next 5 years. All the moves will be on the east cost. The hospitals for her specialty are all in areas that have a Merrill Lynch location. I figure that worst case scenario is that i get a 60k salary for a year and get some great training and a S7 and S66.
Old LAdy, I looked into the Life insurance route and actually was offered a job by Northwestern Mutual a month ago. I didn't take it because I didn't like the way that they seemed to think that Life Insurance is the answer to everything and i just couldn't get motivated to sell insurance. Thanks for the suggestion though.[quote=bullinachinashop]I figure that worst case scenario is that i get a 60k salary for a year and get some great training and a S7 and S66. [/quote]
What you “figure” for a worst case scenario omits a pretty important consideration: your training contract.
Before ML or any of the wires invest all that time and money training you, you must sign a training contract that says if you leave the firm within a defined period of time you must repay ML a big chunk of money. The details vary a bit from firm to firm and I don’t know ML’s terms off hand, but generally it’s somewhere in the ballpark of $50-75K owed if you leave within 3-5 years of completing your training, with less owed depending on your length of service.
In practice, if you wash out of the business entirely and make no effort to solicit old clients they probably won’t come after you for payment, but they have the legal right to. If you move to another firm and attempt to keep clients they definitely will come after you for that payment. This is such a common problem you wouldn’t believe it - do a search on this forum for training contract and you’ll have your eyes opened BEFOREHAND, as opposed to so many who don’t bother reading their employment contracts before they sign them.
There’s no such thing as a free lunch, as too many find out only when they try to leave.
where do you live?
I actually told the VP at ML that i may move in 2 years. He said that whether i stay or go to another ml branch isn’t going to make or break him, but he was concerned about my long term success with the move. I was pleasantly suprised that he even considered my well being.
I may be wrong about this... I think that he was just being nice to you. You aren't going to get a job offer. Why would he hire you? If you follow your plan, some of the clients are going to follow you and leave that branch with you. Others will leave ML altogether. If you stayed, that branch would continue to make money on all of those assets. Bullinachinashop, when you say, "I just couldn't get motivated to sell insurance", what exactly do you mean? What is it that you really want to do?I can’t speak for all life insurance companies, but my expierence with NWM was that insurance was the answer to any problem. I have to believe in the product i’m selling to be a good salesman and it seems that i was pushed to sell everyone life insurance instead of truely doing a needs analysis and giving them the product with the highest benefit.
[quote=bullinachinashop]I can’t speak for all life insurance companies, but my expierence with NWM was that insurance was the answer to any problem. I have to believe in the product i’m selling to be a good salesman and it seems that i was pushed to sell everyone life insurance instead of truely doing a needs analysis and giving them the product with the highest benefit.
[/quote] I don't know that sales all together is the best field for you. JMONMW or that branch may be the wrong place for you. My point is that insurance is a very important part of financial planning. Based upon what you are telling us, the insurance route is probably the best route for you to take for now. You’ll get great sales experience. You’ll make more money. It will be easier to transition to another state. It will be easier to hold onto your clients. You’ll make a much bigger impact on your clients. When you get settled and you want to go to an ML, etc, go for it. The insurance experience will prove invaluable for you.
Bull, I did not know that you had 15 years of sales experience.
I agree totally that you need to believe in the product. More to the point, in this field, we need to believe that the product will help our clients achieve their financial goals. The clients who love their families (most of them) will want their families to maintain their standard of living if they die or become disabled. It's tough to do this without adequate insurance. If you are trying to say that you don't believe in insurance, I would bet that you don't understand insurance. If you want to focus on gathering assets, insurance isn't important. If you want to focus on helping clients achieve financial goals, insurance is a necessity.[quote=bullinachinashop]
[/quote] I don't know that sales all together is the best field for you. JMO[/quote] I've been in sales for 15 years and my experience is that you must believe in the product you sell. How is your experience different? [/quote] My experience is sometimes a customer comes in looking for a product to fit a need. You try and sell them the product that best fits that need and the customer has no desire to purchase that product. Instead of losing the sale you move to an alternative, then an alternative to the alternative and finally yet another alternative. The customer loves the forth selection for whatever reason. You don't believe the customers final selection fits their needs so your choices are: 1. Try and re-sell the customer on why the first product you showed them is best for their needs even though they've already decided they don't want that product. (Doing this runs the risk of losing the customer as a customer.) 2. Make the sale. I do finance and insurance for a car dealership I see people over buy all the time, or buy a product to fit an image not the best to fit their needs. A buddy of mine owns an audio/video store in town and he has the same issue. Customer comes in wanting a much bigger tv than what works for the space. He tries to explain what the recomended max size is based on viewing distance customer says he's had his heart set on the bigger much more expensive one. He says ok, and sells him the bigger tv. At the end of the day although our assumptions might be right most of the time sometimes we don't see the full story either. Maybe a customer I think is over buying really has a big lump sum of money in the bank and plans on paying the thing off in six months. My friend's customer may be getting ready to expand his home theater room, but didn't mention those plans to a sales guy. I think you try and recommend the best fit for the customer, but if the customer declines your product and wants an alternative I make the sale even if I don't believe the customer is making the best choice.I agree that a customer wants what he wants and this isn’t always what he needs.
My comment was that i need to believe in the product i'm selling.[quote=bullinachinashop]I agree that a customer wants what he wants and this isn’t always what he needs.
My comment was that i need to believe in the product i'm selling. [/quote] What I'm saying is at that point you don't believe the product you're selling is best for the customer, but you make the sale anyway you're not believing in your product at the point of sale.Thank you for everyone’s input.
After listening to everyone's opinon i have narrowed it to two options: 1) Take the ML offer for 60k salary and work my tail off and overcome the move i will make in 1 to 2 years 2) Call NWM back and take the job with 100% commision from day 1 selling life insurance and move to ML once i have a permanent location. I'm still leaning toward option one because i truely believe that i can overcome the hurdle of moving and i get a salary to begin with. EDJ is out because you are locked in for 5-6 years and it seems too small town.. face to face.. for my business to survive a move.Just for the record, you’re only “locked in” for a little more than 3 years with Jones.
I believe that regardless of the firm, or their respective marketing techniques, you're going to have a tough time convincing clients to come with you when you move. But if you feel differently, go for it.bull, based upon your plan, Northwestern Mutual is the wrong company for you if you are going to go that route. You will be much better served with a company like Guardian or MassMutual. You need a company that allows brokered business.
What are the benifits to working for MM over NWM? I interviewed @ MM 2 months ago, but was not impressed.
Bull - Perhaps just my slant on your situation? It seems that you are really focused in on the salary. It seems that is your big attraction to the company, if so best think about the reality. In the end it is about a commission job regardless of where you eventually land. If you are not performing at acceptable levels the salary will mean SQUAT!!! You will be shown the door if you are not up to expected standards. Good luck, hope that you can convince all or most of your clients to endure your relocations.
What are the benifits to working for MM over NWM? I interviewed @ MM 2 months ago, but was not impressed.
The disadvantage with a company like NWM is that they don't accept brokered business. Let's assume that you build the start of a pretty good practice over the next few years. When you move, you decide that NWM is not the best company for you. (It doesn't matter if it's because you don't like your new agency or you decide to go someplace different like ML.) You are going to have many clients who own term insurance that should be converted and clients who have additional purchase options that should be optioned and disability income policies that additional purchases are happening automaticallly and DI policies with future purchase options. These all translate to very easy sales in the future with virtually no work for you. The catch is that if you don't work for NWM in the future, you can't do this for your clients. If instead, you worked for a company that does accept brokered business, like MassMutual, you could keep these clients and make these easy sales. (In fact, not only can't you get those easy sales, you'll instantly be in a competetive situation because those clients will get reassigned to a new rep.)Bull - On one of your posts on another topic you suggested you were being critized about the salary issue. Upon reviewing the posts the majority of members advised not on the salary issue but rather the issue of client retention with the relocating to another city.
You indicated that the VP advised you it was not an issue to him one way or the other? Must be nice to afford the luxury of hiring an employee , training an employee and hoping that he/she will be profitable within a short period of time. As a Manager , I can state from my perspective : A) I would not hire an employee that advised me they will be relocating to another office in XX period of time , B) The salary/training costs come out of my budget so I am taking the budget hit for employee that won't be around for a benefit to the office or my personal incentive program. and C) I would all things being equal between two candidates hire the individual that had roots in the community - hire that candidate and bet the odds that they are going to stay. Just an opinion.I agree with you. I turely think i’ll have to commit to staying there to get hired. He wouldn’t even break even on training costs if i leave in a year or two. I spoke with a previous manager for ML that is independent now and he said that i look like a perfect candidate but i could have donald trump in my AUM and he still wouldn’t hire me if i was going to leave right after he trained me.
Bull , just an opinion and for your review. I hope that you are not like the sensitive and fragile RUNNER and think me as arrogant and condesending?
Bull , just an opinion and for your review. I hope that you are not like the sensitive and fragile RUNNER and think me as arrogant and condesending?
Yes! Love it !
GT Key - I am quite surprised ICE has not jumped in with our sensitive member. Where are you ICE??
[quote=norway401]Bull , just an opinion and for your review. I hope that you are not like the sensitive and fragile RUNNER and think me as arrogant and condesending?[/quote]
norway401, do you really need to make multiple posts bemoaning the fact that runner called you some names?
If you have an opinion you’re bound to be attacked and criticized from time to time. Who cares? Shake it off and move on.
Morphius not bemoaning anything just referencing you comments on your post " Like Dude etc. " and your observations.
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