The 30 day war!

Jul 31, 2009 8:42 pm

Alright, I’m simply not dedicated enough to do the 500 day war.  Between beer, porn, and football I can’t commit longer than 30 days.  However I am declaring war on August.  It’s on like Donkey Kong.  My goal is to be the FA Windy said he was, at least for 30 days.

Here is my plan - stolen right from The Judge:

- Plan to speak with 600 people either via the phone or on the doorstep
- Make 125 new contacts - asking each if it would be okay to contact on Saturdays
- Prospect every Saturday
- Start mailing prospects to keep in front of them.  Complete Sundays.
- Ask for referrals, appointments, and money dues on each and every contact
- Wake up before 8am and work until 7pm
- Do 5 f2f follow ups each day
- Sell more C shares
- Track my results
- Ask for the sale, every conversation
- STAY OFF THIS SITE DURING WORKING HOUR

Game on!




Jul 31, 2009 8:53 pm

STAY OFF THIS SITE DURING WORKING HOUR

I don't think anyone on this forum thinks you can accomplish this. The rest of it however, let us know how it goes!


Jul 31, 2009 9:01 pm

I applaud your efforts. make the 500 day longterm and set shorter intervals like this.



you should make 125 new contacts each week instead of for the month

Jul 31, 2009 9:39 pm

I thought you closed on a 7 figure prospect. Why would you waste all that time cold calling and door knocking when you can meet and great everyone he knows? One of his pals would be better then multiple 30 day wars. Spend one day researching everything you can about this man. Find a way to coincidentally get into his circle. You need to think longer term unless you are on goals. I doubt that though.

  Either way best of luck to ya.
Jul 31, 2009 9:54 pm
Squash1:

I applaud your efforts. make the 500 day longterm and set shorter intervals like this.

you should make 125 new contacts each week instead of for the month

  You need 40 per day if on the phone.   368 dials per day   16 decent leads   1 becomes a client after 9 contacts. My actual year one stats.   Having done that in year 1 has given me the ability to make $250k+ gross in year 2, today is the last day of year 2. My goal was presidents club that no longer exists but it was $200k so I made that plus $50k. I get a 25% bonus of gross as well as the $25k in expenses money. I brought home about 38% of gross about $95K ish + Bonus $62.5K + $12.5 remaining expense money = $170K   So for every dial I made in year one it was worth about $1.90.   368 dials TODAY = $699.20 TAKE HOME NET for next year.   EVERY SINGLE DIAL is worth $1.90 !!!!!!   Kind of makes you want to get on the phone I hope.   Year one it was worth $0.87 for EACH DIAL or $320.16 per day NET.
Jul 31, 2009 10:09 pm

Good points all around.  I doubt I could do 125 new prospects per week door knocking but think I’ll increase my target to 150 for the month. Wrapping in Saturday’s should make this possible.

Gaddock, I’ve not cold called in this role.  No idea what to say or even where to start.  Friday’s are my flex days so maybe I’ll cold call businesses on Friday mornings.  What do you pitch when you call?

N.D., they’ve already given me one referral.  Others will come but don’t want to sit still on one big account.  I got it via doorknocking so why not locate some others?

Not on goals, I’ve not even been to PDP yet.

Jul 31, 2009 10:33 pm

Hello this is Gaddock with XYZ here in Coldcallsville I was calling you to see if you are an investor and if so would you be open to new ideas from time to time?

  There are many threads about cold calling here to search and read.
Aug 1, 2009 12:50 am

Inspirational post, Volt.  I’ve got a list of about 200 people turning 65 in the 2nd half of the year that are just waiting to get pounded.  I should come up with a campaign to do this.  Let me think about it and I’ll post it when I come up with it.

Aug 1, 2009 2:28 am

Going to go balls to the wall this month, see what I can accomplish with an all out blitz.

Please post that campaign, love new ideas.

Aug 1, 2009 3:04 am

One referral is a great start. It will come and your expressed motivation will payoff in many ways.

You called for a blitz. That's funny because we are preparing for that very same thing. Starting monday, one vet and one newb are working the top 100 and a vet with a newb will work the bottom 100. It is a competition to see where the best opportunities can be mined. Kind of like your PDP competitions i.e. money dues, referrals, accounts opened and so forth. I think setting a challenge is a BIG time motivator. I recommend you hook up and do the same with another EJ guy and see just what can be done in one month in this market.
Aug 1, 2009 12:35 pm

Allright, I’m making my coffee and am ready to head down to the office to start pounding the phone.  Who is with me?  C’mon folks, UP AND AT EM 

Aug 1, 2009 2:20 pm

Every saturday… but i hate coffee, Monster instead(no prep time)…

Aug 1, 2009 3:14 pm

I stayed up until 3am so got started a bit late!  Making some calls and getting my week planned.  Sorta of counting today as July 31 1/2.

Aug 1, 2009 5:55 pm

Allright, I pisspounded the phones from 9:15-11:45 this morning calling C-Clients and B-Prospects who we did some fact finders with but the sale never happened in past years for whatever reason.  I came up with 4 appts, 3 with C-clients and 1 with an old prospect.  Of this one of our C-Clients has a $25,000 rollover for us which had been planning to just roll to his new 401k, that 25k will add enough to his other rollover to get him into wrap and make him a B-client, and the old prospect wants to finally convert his term into a GUL for about $1500 in annual premium.  Really nice morning all in all for two sales we wouldn’t have had if I wouldn’t have been in there.  Had a half dozen other conversations that didn’t go anywhere yet and left a couple dozen messages for clients and prospects and that’s worth something as well.

Aug 1, 2009 5:58 pm

[quote=voltmoie]I stayed up until 3am so got started a bit late!  Making some calls and getting my week planned.  Sorta of counting today as July 31 1/2.[/quote]

Unf***ingbelievable.  You start a thread to get people geared up and then you’re too hungover to make your own calls.  BOOOOOO! 

Aug 1, 2009 6:06 pm

[quote=BerkshireBull] Allright, I pisspounded the phones from 9:15-11:45 this morning calling C-Clients and B-Prospects who we did some fact finders with but the sale never happened in past years for whatever reason. I came up with 4 appts, 3 with C-clients and 1 with an old prospect. Of this one of our C-Clients has a $25,000 rollover for us which had been planning to just roll to his new 401k, that 25k will add enough to his other rollover to get him into wrap and make him a B-client, and the old prospect wants to finally convert his term into a GUL for about $1500 in annual premium. Really nice morning all in all for two sales we wouldn’t have had if I wouldn’t have been in there. Had a half dozen other conversations that didn’t go anywhere yet and left a couple dozen messages for clients and prospects and that’s worth something as well.

[/quote]



Do you feel it is beneficial to leave messages(for prospects)?

Aug 1, 2009 6:22 pm

[quote=Squash1] [quote=BerkshireBull] Allright, I pisspounded the phones from 9:15-11:45 this morning calling C-Clients and B-Prospects who we did some fact finders with but the sale never happened in past years for whatever reason.  I came up with 4 appts, 3 with C-clients and 1 with an old prospect.  Of this one of our C-Clients has a $25,000 rollover for us which had been planning to just roll to his new 401k, that 25k will add enough to his other rollover to get him into wrap and make him a B-client, and the old prospect wants to finally convert his term into a GUL for about $1500 in annual premium.  Really nice morning all in all for two sales we wouldn’t have had if I wouldn’t have been in there.  Had a half dozen other conversations that didn’t go anywhere yet and left a couple dozen messages for clients and prospects and that’s worth something as well.

[/quote]



Do you feel it is beneficial to leave messages(for prospects)?[/quote]

I usually never leave messages for prospects but this bunch was sortof a special situation.  These were dead B-prospects, most of them would be A-prospects if we could get them working with us again as in drop everything and get them on the calendar ASAP.  They either are successful business owners or have been qualified to have large investment or insurance needs, remember we’ve done fact finders with most of them so we know what’s there.  We don’t want to look depserate or pushy with them so I’ve been leaving messages to be safe and then we can call again in 3 months.  Occasionally one of them will call us back.  We had a $190k rollover happen last month on someone I called in March and again in May to leave messages for and mailed him some articles.  He had been getting calls from various interns and my boss himself since 2004.  Those accounts you work for 5 years on are pretty nice when they finally land.  He was part of this bunch.

Do you usually leave messages for prospects?

Aug 1, 2009 6:29 pm

Had a meeting this morning and got a $10,000 check to put in some investments.  Was hoping for a REIT since they use their dividends from current investments but just got some A shares.  Not a horrible morning. 

Aug 1, 2009 7:24 pm

[quote=BerkshireBull]

[quote=voltmoie]I stayed up until 3am so got started a bit late!  Making some calls and getting my week planned.  Sorta of counting today as July 31 1/2.[/quote]

Unf***ingbelievable.  You start a thread to get people geared up and then you’re too hungover to make your own calls.  BOOOOOO! 
[/quote]

I know, I suck!  I did work though … set up two appointments and sold a TINY UIT for a client that had some extra cash in her money market.  Also, planned my week ahead. 

Think for my next Saturday I’m going to tag all the people I’ve been trying to get in touch with for weeks and call them + do some door knocking. 

Aug 3, 2009 10:09 am

I love the smell of napalm in the morning! Let the war begin…

Aug 3, 2009 12:40 pm

[quote=voltmoie]I love the smell of napalm in the morning! Let the war begin…
[/quote]

haha, did you really get up at 5AM or do you live on the east coast and it’s 6AM?

Either way, nice job getting up and at em!

Aug 3, 2009 12:59 pm

probably east coast. what can you do at 5am that you can’t at 6am? I am all for putting in the time, but no to the extent of burning out… So you are up at 5am work til 8pm?

Aug 3, 2009 6:09 pm
voltmoie:

Alright, I’m simply not dedicated enough to do the 500 day war.  Between beer, porn, and football I can’t commit longer than 30 days.  However I am declaring war on August.  It’s on like Donkey Kong.  My goal is to be the FA Windy said he was, at least for 30 days.

Here is my plan - stolen right from The Judge:

- Plan to speak with 600 people either via the phone or on the doorstep
- Make 125 new contacts - asking each if it would be okay to contact on Saturdays
- Prospect every Saturday
- Start mailing prospects to keep in front of them.  Complete Sundays.
- Ask for referrals, appointments, and money dues on each and every contact
- Wake up before 8am and work until 7pm
- Do 5 f2f follow ups each day
- Sell more C shares
- Track my results
- Ask for the sale, every conversation
- STAY OFF THIS SITE DURING WORKING HOUR

Game on!

  Volt, start collecting e-mail addresses and e-mailing Strategy Reports and Industry Reports.  I have been doing that for the past 3 months.  I have about 150 people in my database.  It's cheaper and more effective than snail mail.  I do it about every 2-4 weeks.  I also find that people will more likely respond to an e-mail than a snail-mail.  I do this for both clients and prospects.  The other interesting thing is that many people are more likley to give out e-mail addresses than phone numbers.  It's a cool twist on prospecting - people will respond to an e-mail, but not pick up their phone.
Aug 3, 2009 6:17 pm

What are the compliance issues with emailing info to people?

Aug 3, 2009 6:30 pm
Squash1:

What are the compliance issues with emailing info to people?

  As long as its client approved data.  Our company puts out a weekly market update from our chief market strategist that we send out to clients if its worth reading.  As long as it doesn't say "Not Approved for Client Distribution" then we'll ship it out to people.
Aug 3, 2009 6:39 pm

but you can’t email to prospects right(or people who you have just found their email address)

Aug 3, 2009 6:49 pm

I never heard that rule.  We e-mail some UHNW prospects the same stuff we e-mail clients.  I don’t think FINRA separates clients and prospects when it comes to marketing/market/company correspondence rules.  I could be wrong though, compliance probably wouldn’t give me an A+ grade if they were asked about my history.

Aug 3, 2009 7:07 pm
Squash1:

What are the compliance issues with emailing info to people?

  Don't know, but I only e-mail people I know (clients and prospects).  I don't e-mail cold prospects (in other words, complete strangers).  People can opt-out if they don't want to receive them anymore.  Our firm has standard e-mail reports that we send out, so the content is approved as well.
Aug 3, 2009 7:10 pm

But Squash, you are right - you cannot solicit strangers via “SPAM” (and actually, you can’t technically solicit anyone via e-mail, but you can send out generic reports).

Aug 3, 2009 10:10 pm

I was up at 6am, working by 7:30am.  Good activity today although the fish were not biting. Tomorrow I'll bang out some more calls, make some follow ups, and really make a push for new contacts.

B24 - good stuff.  I've been doing that for clients, not prospects... I will now.  Thanks.
Aug 3, 2009 10:25 pm

Is it bad to take pleasure in clients getting laid off?? Had a 401k become movable today that we’re moving tomorrow. That’s enough activity for today.

Aug 3, 2009 11:44 pm

I sold $16,000 into a Pacific Innovations VA today and $7000 in funds and set 1 new appt with a new prospect and 2 appts with existing clients.  Not a bad day at the office by myself with the big-dog was doing some charity golf event. 

Hoping to take an app on a $45k fixed annuity sale tomorrow.

BRING ON TUESDAY! 

Aug 3, 2009 11:46 pm

[quote=3rdyrp2]Is it bad to take pleasure in clients getting laid off?? Had a 401k become movable today that we’re moving tomorrow. That’s enough activity for today.[/quote]

Only way it would be better is if it were someone who wasn’t a client yet!  How much is it for?

Aug 4, 2009 12:48 am

Only like $25,000.  I don’t mind those types of accounts though.  Perfect for A shares, and a nice $1,250 GDC hit. 

Aug 4, 2009 10:58 pm

[quote=BerkshireBull]I sold $16,000 into a Pacific Innovations VA today and $7000 in funds and set 1 new appt with a new prospect and 2 appts with existing clients.  Not a bad day at the office by myself with the big-dog was doing some charity golf event. 

Hoping to take an app on a $45k fixed annuity sale tomorrow.

 

BRING ON TUESDAY! 
[/quote]   You put $23k to work....Who gives a sh*t?  Tomorrow you'll do $900 in production and not get paid on the $45k for 5 years.  Again, who gives a sh*t?  Here's a good start to the week.   Yesterday I got ACATs signed for $235k all fee based at 1%, today I had a finals presentation for $338k - again running at 1%.  Tomorrow I'm meeting with a guy for the second time who has $1.1mm in cash, I proposed $200k in discounted CMO's roughly $25/bond = $5000 in production - $500k in fee based business - $400k in a 10yr Muni ladder.    That's a good start to the week, not putting $23k to work.
Aug 4, 2009 11:17 pm

[quote=Baba Booey][quote=BerkshireBull]I sold $16,000 into a Pacific Innovations VA today and $7000 in funds and set 1 new appt with a new prospect and 2 appts with existing clients.  Not a bad day at the office by myself with the big-dog was doing some charity golf event. 

Hoping to take an app on a $45k fixed annuity sale tomorrow.

 

BRING ON TUESDAY! 
[/quote]   You put $23k to work....Who gives a sh*t?  Tomorrow you'll do $900 in production and not get paid on the $45k for 5 years.  Again, who gives a sh*t?  Here's a good start to the week.   Yesterday I got ACATs signed for $235k all fee based at 1%, today I had a finals presentation for $338k - again running at 1%.  Tomorrow I'm meeting with a guy for the second time who has $1.1mm in cash, I proposed $200k in discounted CMO's roughly $25/bond = $5000 in production - $500k in fee based business - $400k in a 10yr Muni ladder.    That's a good start to the week, not putting $23k to work.[/quote]   How long have you been in the business, rockstar?
Aug 4, 2009 11:35 pm

Bababooey, your d*** was bigger than voltmoie’s yesterday.   Who gives a sh*t?

  Voltmoie isn't posting numbers to say how good he's doing.  He's doing it because it is giving him a kick in the butt that he thinks that he needs.
Aug 4, 2009 11:48 pm

[quote=voltmoie][quote=Baba Booey][quote=BerkshireBull]I sold $16,000 into a Pacific Innovations VA today and $7000 in funds and set 1 new appt with a new prospect and 2 appts with existing clients.  Not a bad day at the office by myself with the big-dog was doing some charity golf event. 

Hoping to take an app on a $45k fixed annuity sale tomorrow.

 

BRING ON TUESDAY! 
[/quote]   You put $23k to work....Who gives a sh*t?  Tomorrow you'll do $900 in production and not get paid on the $45k for 5 years.  Again, who gives a sh*t?  Here's a good start to the week.   Yesterday I got ACATs signed for $235k all fee based at 1%, today I had a finals presentation for $338k - again running at 1%.  Tomorrow I'm meeting with a guy for the second time who has $1.1mm in cash, I proposed $200k in discounted CMO's roughly $25/bond = $5000 in production - $500k in fee based business - $400k in a 10yr Muni ladder.    That's a good start to the week, not putting $23k to work.[/quote]   How long have you been in the business, rockstar?   Been licensed for 8 years, in production for 15 months.  I transitioned from wholesaling mutual funds.[/quote]
Aug 4, 2009 11:50 pm

[quote=anonymous]Bababooey, your d*** was bigger than voltmoie’s yesterday.   Who gives a sh*t?

  Voltmoie isn't posting numbers to say how good he's doing.  He's doing it because it is giving him a kick in the butt that he thinks that he needs.[/quote] I read this board everyday, not many people post numbers....because nobody cares.  Share good ideas and best practices, but nobody cares if he put $23k to work.
Aug 5, 2009 12:00 am

[quote=Baba Booey][quote=anonymous]Bababooey, your d*** was bigger than voltmoie’s yesterday.   Who gives a sh*t?

  Voltmoie isn't posting numbers to say how good he's doing.  He's doing it because it is giving him a kick in the butt that he thinks that he needs.[/quote] I read this board everyday, not many people post numbers....because nobody cares.  Share good ideas and best practices, but nobody cares if he put $23k to work.[/quote]

... and nobody cares about you lying about yours.
Aug 5, 2009 12:24 am

Right -  I’m lying.

Aug 5, 2009 12:29 am

[quote=Baba Booey][quote=anonymous]Bababooey, your d*** was bigger than voltmoie’s yesterday.   Who gives a sh*t?

  Voltmoie isn't posting numbers to say how good he's doing.  He's doing it because it is giving him a kick in the butt that he thinks that he needs.[/quote] I read this board everyday, not many people post numbers....because nobody cares.  Share good ideas and best practices, but nobody cares if he put $23k to work.[/quote]   You don't care that he put 23K to work, but he does.  He posted numbers because he felt that in some way it would be helpful to himself or others to post them.  You posted numbers simply to be critical of him.
Aug 5, 2009 1:36 am

If Baba Booey was here every day, she would know that Volt is only talking about successes with his 30 day war…not about actual numbers.

By the way, Volt, do you know it is just 3:30 in the afternoon in Hawaii…maybe someone there could use a good 5% tax free muni!!!

Aug 5, 2009 1:49 am

Baba Booey is so damn good and so damn smart he shouldve started his own mutual fund.

Aug 5, 2009 1:54 am

Nope - I gather assets, I don’t manage them.  Just don’t know why anyone would post they raised $23k.  It’s fun getting the Jone’s boys fired up.

Aug 5, 2009 1:55 am
[email protected]:

If Baba Booey was here every day, she would know that Volt is only talking about successes with his 30 day war…not about actual numbers.

By the way, Volt, do you know it is just 3:30 in the afternoon in Hawaii…maybe someone there could use a good 5% tax free muni!!!

This is for Hank/Alice - Didn't you get fired last week?
Aug 5, 2009 2:00 am

Those were not my numbers, they were Berks, but I would not be ashamed of them.  Activity is activity.  I’ll take 23k all day long. 

I’ll wait to post my total numbers weekly but enjoy hearing what others are doing.  Except Baba Booey,he’s waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of my league. 

Aug 5, 2009 2:04 am

[[email protected]]If Baba Booey was here every day, she would know that Volt is only talking about successes with his 30 day war…not about actual numbers.

By the way, Volt, do you know it is just 3:30 in the afternoon in Hawaii…maybe someone there could use a good 5% tax free muni!!!

[/quote]

haha … I called until about 8pm tonight. It was a hectic day but got a few good referrals, some appointments, a tiny sale … and one of my clients mothers died. I called him out of the blue just to say hello.  Going to send a card and set up a meeting in a couple of weeks.  Her situation should make long term care ins. an easy sale. 

I do need to up my game on new contacts though, I’m really failing here.

Aug 5, 2009 3:22 am

Baba Booey is so good that none of his clients mothers die.

Aug 5, 2009 3:44 am
Baba Booey:

This is for Hank/Alice - Didn’t you get fired last week?

  I doubt it.   [quote=Piker Patrol]Go ahead and give them my info, skippy. Lots of people on this forum have my phone number and use it. I can be reached at XXX-XXX-XXXX. That's my private line at my office. [/quote]   He is not hard to find if you are looking.
Aug 5, 2009 4:24 am

Memo to Baba Booey:  This is the “Rookies and Trainees Board” and this is a thread started by a rookie to talk about rookie successes.

Safe to say you’ve blown any credibility you may have had, but if you do believe you have any remaining please check out the other 10 boards on this forum which you may believe to be more up to your standards.

They can be found here:  http://forums.registeredrep.com/default.asp?SID=623f3czbac53eefd9c6d98cccd28c7f5

In the meantime we’ll still be here laughing at the fool you’ve made of yourself.

Aug 5, 2009 4:50 am

I've been in production for 15 months.  It's just dumb to talk about bringing in $23k.  Why in the hell would you even open a $7000 account?  Get paid $100 one time, spend your energy talking to people who have more money.

Aug 5, 2009 5:05 am

[quote=Baba Booey]

I've been in production for 15 months.  It's just dumb to talk about bringing in $23k.  Why in the hell would you even open a $7000 account?  Get paid $100 one time, spend your energy talking to people who have more money.

[/quote]   Here's a true story for you.  Guy walks into the office, says he wants to open an account for $10,000.  Broker of the day was a vet that passed on it, didn't want to deal with it, gave it to a rookie in the back.  The rookie serviced the account for a few months.  The guy later transfered in over $10MM.  He just wanted to see someone care about his account.
Aug 5, 2009 5:35 am

Doesn’t take much energy to accept a broker of the day walk in…this guy is prospecting $7000 accounts.

Aug 5, 2009 1:00 pm

[quote=Baba Booey]

I’ve been in production for 15 months.  It’s just dumb to talk about bringing in $23k.  Why in the hell would you even open a $7000 account?  Get paid $100 one time, spend your energy talking to people who have more money.

[/quote]

The whole point of it was that these were two accounts opened from prospecting calls and appointments set by dragging in from 8-noon on Saturday Morning.  I would never have found it if I hadn’t gone in an extra day last week.  We were just sharing our successes from putting in a half day on Saturday, no one was bragging.

These were just extra accounts I opened by working some extra hours on my own.  The FA I work for wouldn’t be hustling to get accounts like this, and it wouldn’t be much of a win to find them working on his dime, I found them making calls by myself Saturday and I’ll get about $750 extra on my paycheck next month for finding them.  I’d take that for 4hrs of work EVERY Saturday.  It’s just a success to share to get other people excited about working a little extra on Saturday.
Aug 5, 2009 1:07 pm

[quote=snaggletooth] [quote=Baba Booey]

I’ve been in production for 15 months. It’s just dumb to talk about bringing in $23k. Why in the hell would you even open a $7000 account? Get paid $100 one time, spend your energy talking to people who have more money.

[/quote]



Here’s a true story for you. Guy walks into the office, says he wants to open an account for $10,000. Broker of the day was a vet that passed on it, didn’t want to deal with it, gave it to a rookie in the back. The rookie serviced the account for a few months. The guy later transfered in over $10MM. He just wanted to see someone care about his account.[/quote]



There are always tales like this one to keep advisors from not taking small accounts.

"He only had $25K in his accounts, but refferred $8MM in additional clients"



I think it is good to set minimums, but a part of me also says if you can get an account and annuitize it(C shares, wrap) and not have to worry about it then great.



However I was talking to a big wirehouse producer who only has 85 clients but $500MM in assets, and says he drops off his lowest generating account everytime he adds a new one. He use to do $100K accts but through the years he is now up to $5MM minimums.
Aug 5, 2009 1:26 pm

I think the point is that when you are newer in the business, that is not the time to get picky about account minimums, unless you have a clear path to lots of new high-asset accounts.  Otherwise, you need all those small accounts to  (a) survive, and (b) get the occassional lucky referral or “guy that actually had $10mm”.  You have the rest of your career to cull your book.

Aug 5, 2009 1:46 pm

Again i disagree(think we have done this before). You spend too much time with the small accounts and that’s all your book ever is. Arthur Levitt who ran the SEC for a while, said that anyone under $50k doesn’t need an advisor and they should just buy index funds until they reach $100K. And that is true, how much can you really help someone who only has $50K? Slap them in american funds c shares and the client ends up losing 1.65%/ year until they reach $100K… Or have them buy vanguard and lose %0.35/ year until reach $50K…

Aug 5, 2009 2:01 pm

I don’t understand the mentality of not dealing with small accounts.  The average person knows 200 people that I don’t.  (referrals)  They have kids (529 plans) and spouses (life insurance), they change jobs on average 7 times during their working lives (rollovers)(401k business), and meet new people at those new jobs (more referrals).  There are so many ways beyond the initial transfer of funds into our offices to make money, it just doesn’t make sense to turn anyone away. 

  Personally, I would use an asset allocation fund for that $50K account.  I know I'm not going to be spending any time rebalancing and I can't justify using 10 different funds that I put together and manage.  So, find a fund that does what I would like to do, but won't, and let it go.  Call the folks, ask for referrals, hope you get some extra biz from time to time and move on.  It will realistically cost you about 5 minutes a year.  So, if you do an A share @ 4.5% = $2000 gross (dealer concessions) and service the account for the next 10 years = 50 minutes you made $2000 an hour.  Not a bad gig.  I'll take those accounts ALL DAY LONG.  So, squash, you get those folks, just let me know.  I'm sure you and I can work out a deal.    volt & berk - keep up the good work guys.  In this climate, business is business.  Do it however, whenever, and as big or little as you can. 
Aug 5, 2009 2:07 pm

Yes, we have had this discussion before.  Here’s my twist on what you’re saying…I totally agree that most people with less than 100K should just buy indexes directly.  If they are retired, they should have a focus on fixed income indexes (“huh?”), some large cap, small cap, and international (“uh, OK”).  It might also help to use some some niche market investments (real estate, emerging markets, commodities, etc.) (“uh, OK, now you’ve lost me”).  Point is, most people with small sums of money are so unsophisticated at investing that to them, and index is the S&P 500, and that’s it.  Msot people have neither the intelligence, experience, or discipline to buy the right indexes and keep them at the right times.  I can almost guarantee you that I can improve someone’s return by $1300 per year over what THEY would have done without any help.  So it’s great in theory, but doesn’t happen.  It’s like saying “people should just exercise and eat right”.  OK.  Sure.

  As far as taking up time, I don't think anyone goes in with the attitude of "let's see how many small accounts I can open today".  Starting out, you fish in an area, and you take what you catch.  Unless you are extremely committed to a niche or focus area (and it's working), I don't see how newbies can just turn away business.   But I totally agree that at some point you have to start "avoiding" the little fish. 
Aug 5, 2009 2:28 pm

It depends what type of business your are running. At jones(not a knock) you can’t afford to turn people away because you are getting 25bps on the backside. So you need assets and accounts to keep it going. For some of us we run feebased accounts and aren’t looking for quantity, but instead a minimum amount of assets.

Aug 5, 2009 2:32 pm

[quote=B24] Yes, we have had this discussion before. Here’s my twist on what you’re saying…I totally agree that most people with less than 100K should just buy indexes directly. If they are retired, they should have a focus on fixed income indexes (“huh?”), some large cap, small cap, and international (“uh, OK”). It might also help to use some some niche market investments (real estate, emerging markets, commodities, etc.) (“uh, OK, now you’ve lost me”). Point is, most people with small sums of money are so unsophisticated at investing that to them, and index is the S&P 500, and that’s it. Msot people have neither the intelligence, experience, or discipline to buy the right indexes and keep them at the right times. I can almost guarantee you that I can improve someone’s return by $1300 per year over what THEY would have done without any help. So it’s great in theory, but doesn’t happen. It’s like saying “people should just exercise and eat right”. OK. Sure.



As far as taking up time, I don’t think anyone goes in with the attitude of “let’s see how many small accounts I can open today”. Starting out, you fish in an area, and you take what you catch. Unless you are extremely committed to a niche or focus area (and it’s working), I don’t see how newbies can just turn away business.



But I totally agree that at some point you have to start “avoiding” the little fish. [/quote]



I don’t think we should be dumbing down investing. If you aren’t smart enough to exercise and eat right, you will probably die before it’s your time. Same for investing if you can’t save $100K or read a book that says buy the S&P 500 index, In’t Fund and a bond fund because you only have $5K then I don’t want you as a client.



Aug 5, 2009 2:54 pm

I do need to up my game on new contacts though, I’m really failing here.

  Me too, I'm putting in apps, but failing to add enough new contacts everyday.  I will starve if I don't immediately turn this around.  Time management is a bitch for me.
Aug 5, 2009 3:29 pm

[quote=Spaceman Spiff]I don’t understand the mentality of not dealing with small accounts.  The average person knows 200 people that I don’t.  (referrals)  They have kids (529 plans) and spouses (life insurance), they change jobs on average 7 times during their working lives (rollovers)(401k business), and meet new people at those new jobs (more referrals).  There are so many ways beyond the initial transfer of funds into our offices to make money, it just doesn’t make sense to turn anyone away. 

  Personally, I would use an asset allocation fund for that $50K account.  I know I'm not going to be spending any time rebalancing and I can't justify using 10 different funds that I put together and manage.  So, find a fund that does what I would like to do, but won't, and let it go.  Call the folks, ask for referrals, hope you get some extra biz from time to time and move on.  It will realistically cost you about 5 minutes a year.  So, if you do an A share @ 4.5% = $2000 gross (dealer concessions) and service the account for the next 10 years = 50 minutes you made $2000 an hour.  Not a bad gig.  I'll take those accounts ALL DAY LONG.  So, squash, you get those folks, just let me know.  I'm sure you and I can work out a deal.    volt & berk - keep up the good work guys.  In this climate, business is business.  Do it however, whenever, and as big or little as you can.  [/quote]   I like this mentality.  No one is actually prospecting hoping to acquire 1,000 $25,000 households.  But if they're willing to give you the money, won't be a constant headache and will do what you say, there's no downside to taking them on (Unless you work primarily fee-based, in which case there is a downside).  $25,000 a day is $900 or so in GDC with A shares (avg. with breakpoints).  $900 per day is $9,000 per service period, and at 40% payout that's a $3,600 paycheck and comes out to $94,000 for the year.  Not a whole lot of newbies that wouldn't take that in their first few years before they are able to transition to fee-based.
Aug 5, 2009 4:05 pm

[quote=Full Throttle]I do need to up my game on new contacts though, I’m really failing here.

  Me too, I'm putting in apps, but failing to add enough new contacts everyday.  I will starve if I don't immediately turn this around.  Time management is a bitch for me.[/quote]   That's my issue.  Over the last three months I've opened 40 accounts but have not been replanting the field.  This month will be great (by my standards) but Sept. worries me if I don't get hustling.      With respect to small clients.  I've gotten referrals and additional business out of almost everyone of them - for the most part they've been larger pieces of business.  I flat out tell them I need their help, ask them to hand out business cards for me and give me three names of people they think could use my service.  Also, Jone's reps get new account bonus so that extra 500-700 I've been getting is a nice incentive to help the small fries as well.    LUNCH time and then back into call block.
Aug 5, 2009 4:43 pm

I thought this thread was about Volt’s 30 day war and I read about Modern Portfolio Theory and the making of a hypo. Fill up that funnel to replace the ones that you opened accounts for or that you kicked out of the funnel as a pretender. Good luck and have a good week!

Aug 5, 2009 5:06 pm

People with $7000 hang out with people with $7000.  It’s pretty rare to get a good introduction from such a small account.

Aug 5, 2009 5:59 pm

This one is really going to chap your ass if you make fun of a $7000 account.  I have a 4pm meeting on Friday to set-up a $75/month Roth IRA contribution, no other business at this point.  22 years old, $5000 in a savings account (decent saver at least), in sales as a 1099'er, single, and no other real assets.  My commission = $41, I actually lose money on it.  There is no potential for a DI sale at this point as she has no established income history, no need or desire for life insurance yet, and only $150 per month to work with at this point.  I'm not getting greedy and trying to rob her of her necessary liquid money and I'm only using half of her small monthly savings to fund a Roth IRA so she can continue to grow her liquid savings. 

I would go broke if I prospected for these accounts, but I'll take the one's that come to me.  Why?   1. She is an established saver and I believe she has future financial potential. 2. There will be a DI sale in a year to three years. 3. Eventually there will likely be some life insurance sales. 4. She has older siblings that have families that I should get introductions to them.   I could be wrong about her potential, but I'm willing to give her a phone call on her birthday and once a year for an annual review (which can be done over the phone).  If she wasn't an established saver, responsible, and I believed she would always be poor, this would be a complete waste of time.
Aug 5, 2009 6:16 pm

I think that is a waste of time.  Instead of the two hours of prep time, talking on RR about the case, and the actual meeting.  Spend those 3 hours looking for people who have at least $250k to invest. 

  Or since you sound like an insurance guy - spend those 3 hours calling someone who can do $5000/yr in whole life premium.
Aug 5, 2009 6:29 pm

In the short run,

Two cups of coffee = $3.50 Gas = $5.00 *Mainly opportunity cost which is why the meeting is scheduled for my last slot on a Friday.   Leaves a balance of $35 profit before overhead expenses.  I had a manager tell me not to spend time with these accounts, send them to a bank or sell them life insurance.  His theory, you're targeting three sales per week and only have so much time, do you want a $43 sale to be one of your three for the week?  I see his point, but believe it to be focused entirely on short term thinking.  Also, if I made my money primarily from investments this would likely be a total waste of time as well.  Once again, I believe it comes down to future financial potential.  If it's not there, it's not worth the time.
Aug 5, 2009 6:38 pm

I’ll give you another reason that I take small accounts…I just finished up with a lady that makes $200K per year as a Director of Clinical Pharmacology for a major pharma co.  She’s 49 years old.  She was referred to me by a CPA I know in town, that knows I focus on clients of this particular company.  So right now, those are two big pluses - 200K income, referred by CPA.  How much was her rollover?  26K.  Why? She’s an ex-pat from overseas that has worked all over the world.  She’s got a few hundred grand in the UK, about 75K in liquid savings here (her “layoff” contingency fund), and some company stock and a few other little things.  So I won’t make that much of this, but you know what?  She doesn’t hang out with secretaries and the guy that does overnight security.  She hangs out with other Directors making 200K+ per year.  And Directors making 200K per year usually aren’t 35 year-olds.  I have all kinds of clients like this, and they just build on themselves.  Smart, well-paid people just have a way of making good things happen.

So, I think the whole "don't take samll accounts" thing has to be taken with a grain of salt.  I DON'T take the 68 year-old lady living in a trailer that gives me the 25K settlement she just got because she slipped and fell at the supermarket.  But a highly intelligent, well-paid, well-connected professional?  The amount doesn't matter.  That's free advertising for me.
Aug 5, 2009 7:53 pm

The sad story is she’s 49 with less than 300k in retirement money.  Probably loaded down with credit card debt, 70k vehicle, to big a house and now she’s got money with ED JONES.  I hope she’s hot.

Aug 5, 2009 7:59 pm
bspears:

The sad story is she’s 49 with less than 300k in retirement money. Probably loaded down with credit card debt, 70k vehicle, to big a house and now she’s got money with ED JONES. I hope she’s hot.



I agree. She's screwed. Hopefully by B24.
Aug 5, 2009 8:00 pm

I don’t consider somebody with “a few hundred grand” “$75K emergency” “$26K rollover” a small client… Maybe I didn’t explain small client… see the example of the 18 year old in a couple posts before(that is a small client)… Someone with over $250K isn’t small(for me)

Aug 5, 2009 8:31 pm

Chief is right on - we’re talking about the 18 year old with $7000…that is a small account.  Not someone with $200k in the UK.

Aug 5, 2009 8:46 pm
bspears:

The sad story is she’s 49 with less than 300k in retirement money.  Probably loaded down with credit card debt, 70k vehicle, to big a house and now she’s got money with ED JONES.  I hope she’s hot.

  OK, lots of incorrect assumptions out there.  She spent several years in the Peace Corps, she's from overseas (she's from Portugal, and never really understood investing), and didn't start her "real" career until later in life (she has BS, PhD and two masters).  She has no debt, other than a $140K mortgage on her condo, which is worth 400K (on the water, nonetheless).  She has no kids, so a pretty cheap lifestyle.  She maxes out her 401K. In addition to the cash overseas, she also has some real estate overseas.   And she's not hot.   You ARE right though, she's now got money with Eddie Jones.  
Aug 5, 2009 8:52 pm

p.s. Actually Spears, you’re assumptions are not that far off from many of the clients I have come in here.  It’s actually pretty sick.  I have clients making 250K, but have like 400-500K in debt, massive house, two nice imports on loan in the garage(s), and can barely fund their 401K’s.  I tell these people they are screwed when they retire.  I actually had one guy, a general counsel for a major F100 company, tell me flat out “I’d rather spend the money” than put more away for retirement.  Okie Dokie.  It’s your life.  And this guy only has about $1.5m (about 800K with me, the rest in his 401K).  But he lives a 250K lifestyle, and just a small pension other than that.  62 years old.

Aug 5, 2009 10:23 pm

[quote=B24]p.s. Actually Spears, you’re assumptions are not that far off from many of the clients I have come in here.  It’s actually pretty sick.  I have clients making 250K, but have like 400-500K in debt, massive house, two nice imports on loan in the garage(s), and can barely fund their 401K’s.  I tell these people they are screwed when they retire.  I actually had one guy, a general counsel for a major F100 company, tell me flat out “I’d rather spend the money” than put more away for retirement.  Okie Dokie.  It’s your life.  And this guy only has about $1.5m (about 800K with me, the rest in his 401K).  But he lives a 250K lifestyle, and just a small pension other than that.  62 years old.[/quote]

Am I missing something? He’s got ONLY 1.5 million at 62 and he rakes in 250k a year and that’s considered a bad situation, not to mention a pension??

Aug 5, 2009 11:05 pm

svm … the moment that guy retires he still has the debt, still wants to eat lobster every night, still wants to take great vacations and drive German cars.  It’s not bad if you live on 100k its ugly if you live on 250k

He’s 62, prob. going to retire in three years and he’ll take a 60% cut in income.  Still good living but he’ll blow through 1.5 million like me through a cheerleader camp.

Aug 5, 2009 11:08 pm

Spiff, you better slam that guy into a SPIA and take one more pop off that account before you lose it (not to mention you’d do him a favor saving him from himself).

Aug 5, 2009 11:57 pm

[quote=Full Throttle]

This one is really going to chap your ass if you make fun of a $7000 account.  I have a 4pm meeting on Friday to set-up a $75/month Roth IRA contribution, no other business at this point.  22 years old, $5000 in a savings account (decent saver at least), in sales as a 1099'er, single, and no other real assets.  My commission = $41, I actually lose money on it.  There is no potential for a DI sale at this point as she has no established income history, no need or desire for life insurance yet, and only $150 per month to work with at this point.  I'm not getting greedy and trying to rob her of her necessary liquid money and I'm only using half of her small monthly savings to fund a Roth IRA so she can continue to grow her liquid savings. 

I would go broke if I prospected for these accounts, but I'll take the one's that come to me.  Why?   1. She is an established saver and I believe she has future financial potential. 2. There will be a DI sale in a year to three years. 3. Eventually there will likely be some life insurance sales. 4. She has older siblings that have families that I should get introductions to them.   I could be wrong about her potential, but I'm willing to give her a phone call on her birthday and once a year for an annual review (which can be done over the phone).  If she wasn't an established saver, responsible, and I believed she would always be poor, this would be a complete waste of time.[/quote] She's working and making money.  Is she showing income?  If so, she needs DI today.  Work your magic and get DI for her.   Can you promise that she'll be healthy a few years from now when she gets knocked up?  If not, she needs life insurance today.   She only has $5,000 in savings and only $150/month extra.  She needs more savings and not investments.   You can make $41 and do squat for her or you can get her the DI and Life insurance she needs and make 10x the amount for yourself while doing the right thing for her.
Aug 6, 2009 12:13 am

[quote=Full Throttle]

This one is really going to chap your ass if you make fun of a $7000 account.  I have a 4pm meeting on Friday to set-up a $75/month Roth IRA contribution, no other business at this point.  22 years old, $5000 in a savings account (decent saver at least), in sales as a 1099’er, single, and no other real assets.  My commission = $41, I actually lose money on it.  There is no potential for a DI sale at this point as she has no established income history, no need or desire for life insurance yet, and only $150 per month to work with at this point.  I’m not getting greedy and trying to rob her of her necessary liquid money and I’m only using half of her small monthly savings to fund a Roth IRA so she can continue to grow her liquid savings. 

I would go broke if I prospected for these accounts, but I'll take the one's that come to me.  Why?   1. She is an established saver and I believe she has future financial potential. 2. There will be a DI sale in a year to three years. 3. Eventually there will likely be some life insurance sales. 4. She has older siblings that have families that I should get introductions to them.   I could be wrong about her potential, but I'm willing to give her a phone call on her birthday and once a year for an annual review (which can be done over the phone).  If she wasn't an established saver, responsible, and I believed she would always be poor, this would be a complete waste of time.[/quote]
Nobody has asked the important question about her, Is she hot? If so their may not be more revenue to generate but some serious savings on your expense account at the Tokyo Spa.
Aug 6, 2009 12:43 am

[quote=voltmoie] svm … the moment that guy retires he still has the debt, still wants to eat lobster every night, still wants to take great vacations and drive German cars. It’s not bad if you live on 100k its ugly if you live on 250kHe’s 62, prob. going to retire in three years and he’ll take a 60% cut in income. Still good living but he’ll blow through 1.5 million like me through a cheerleader camp.

[/quote]



By blowing at the cheerleader camp are you referring to the males? I’m confused by your verbage…

Aug 6, 2009 1:11 am

He is definitely talking about a cheerleader camp for male cheerleaders. And he will be doing the blowing.

Aug 6, 2009 1:19 am

I’m glad the “30 day war” is now officially in the gutter…
was voltmoie the blowjob queen from a male cheerleading camp?

i realize we should be sharing ideas to improve our business…
but i don’t have a business anymore!!! 

Aug 6, 2009 1:52 am

[quote=Ron 14]

He is definitely talking about a cheerleader camp for male cheerleaders. And he will be doing the blowing.

[/quote]

Don’t hate
Aug 6, 2009 2:45 am

[quote=voltmoie]

[quote=Ron 14]

He is definitely talking about a cheerleader camp for male cheerleaders. And he will be doing the blowing.

[/quote]

Don’t hate
[/quote]

Don’t worry, voltmoie, the first 4 times are just technically experimenting.  You’re not gay until you’ve done stuff with guys more than 4 times
Aug 6, 2009 3:01 am

She’s working and making money.  Is she showing income?  If so, she needs DI today.  Work your magic and get DI for her.

  I agree, but I've been told it wasn't possible since she is brand new in her sales position, hasn't been there for a year, and is 1099'd.  If I could, I would.  Any suggestions?   Can you promise that she'll be healthy a few years from now when she gets knocked up?  If not, she needs life insurance today.   She only has $5,000 in savings and only $150/month extra.  She needs more savings and not investments.   I'm newer at this, so I appreciate the feedback.  Obviously I can't guarantee her health on the life insurance side.  What would you do in this situation?  Do a small permanent policy for savings and a death benefit.  Do a term policy for her full future need? 
Aug 6, 2009 3:21 am

[quote=Full Throttle]She’s working and making money.  Is she showing income?  If so, she needs DI today.  Work your magic and get DI for her.

  I agree, but I've been told it wasn't possible since she is brand new in her sales position, hasn't been there for a year, and is 1099'd.  If I could, I would.  Any suggestions?   Can you promise that she'll be healthy a few years from now when she gets knocked up?  If not, she needs life insurance today.   She only has $5,000 in savings and only $150/month extra.  She needs more savings and not investments.   I'm newer at this, so I appreciate the feedback.  Obviously I can't guarantee her health on the life insurance side.  What would you do in this situation?  Do a small permanent policy for savings and a death benefit.  Do a term policy for her full future need?  [/quote]

You can probably get her a small accident type policy, the way these work are if she is injured in an accident it will pay an upfront benefit of say $1000 and will then pay $500 per month for 6 months if she is unable to work.  Probably cost her in the neighborhood of $20 per month.  Not the nicest disability program on the planet but it's something and she can get it without having to prove income.

On the life side I'd get her a $100,000 UL type policy and get her putting $40 per month into it, she will have the flexibility to stop or reduce premiums for a period of time in the future if she needs to, it should also provide her enough life insurance to carry her through marriage even home ownership to the point that she has dependents and needs to get some term in place.
Aug 6, 2009 3:37 am

[quote=BerkshireBull] [quote=voltmoie] [quote=Ron 14]

He is definitely talking about a cheerleader camp for male cheerleaders. And he will be doing the blowing.

[/quote]

Don't hate
[/quote]

Don't worry, voltmoie, the first 4 times are just technically experimenting.  You're not gay until you've done stuff with guys more than 4 times
[/quote]   Sorry Volt, I just have a tough time passing up a gay joke no matter how bad it is  
Aug 6, 2009 3:41 am

Same goes for me. The thread was heading way offtopic anyway so might as well throw an easy gay joke out there after you set it up so nicely.

Aug 6, 2009 3:49 am

I’m that way with mom jokes so I understand. 

Alright, my day … Had a strong day on the phone, the strongest in weeks.  My conversations could be better but they were rough because I had slacked off and not done a true call session for a month. Sold some bonds to a guy that brushed me off a month ago, he uses another broker so my foot in now in the door for the rest of the stuff.  Got some solid leads on future business.  It’s amazing, when you talk to people you do business…hmmm    Tomorrow will be 100% prospecting and f2f follow ups - 27 contacts in my goal.

Also have a 2nd appt. scheduled for a guy that has a 210k rollover.  Plan to do a little VA and alot of Advisory Solutions with it.

Aug 6, 2009 9:53 am

[quote=Full Throttle]She’s working and making money.  Is she showing income?  If so, she needs DI today.  Work your magic and get DI for her.

  I agree, but I've been told it wasn't possible since she is brand new in her sales position, hasn't been there for a year, and is 1099'd.  If I could, I would.  Any suggestions?   Can you promise that she'll be healthy a few years from now when she gets knocked up?  If not, she needs life insurance today.   She only has $5,000 in savings and only $150/month extra.  She needs more savings and not investments.   I'm newer at this, so I appreciate the feedback.  Obviously I can't guarantee her health on the life insurance side.  What would you do in this situation?  Do a small permanent policy for savings and a death benefit.  Do a term policy for her full future need?  [/quote] For the DI, it really depends on what sort of income she can prove right now.  If there is income that can be proved, you'll be able to find someone who will offer coverage or they will soon.  It may not be enough coverage, but get her as much as possible with a rider to get more in the future without having to show good health.   For the LI, go with a large convertible term policy.  This protects her health while guaranteeing that she can buy permanent coverage at good rates when she can afford to do so.
Aug 6, 2009 9:58 am

BerkshireBull, I have to completely disagree with the UL suggestion.  UL is a product that absolutely sucks long term.  The flexibility that is looked upon as a positive is one of the worst parts about the product.  Human nature gets in the way.  If a premium payment isn’t necessary, one may get skipped.  Skipping premiums drasitcally increase the chance of lapse.  At $40/month for $100,000, ultimately, she will end up with no cash and no insurance when she gets older.   If her health changes, her family will have a Mom that is drastically underinsured.

  At this point she is much better off buying a $500,000 term policy that is less than $20/month and putting the balance into savings.
Aug 6, 2009 3:57 pm
For the LI, go with a large convertible term policy.  This protects her health while guaranteeing that she can buy permanent coverage at good rates when she can afford to do so.   I understand your rationale and agree.  Selling a 22 year old on the idea of buying a $500,000 policy that just got out of school and doesn't have as much as a boyfriend seems like an uphill battle (I bought a similar policy for myself in the same situation, maybe I'll show her my policy and rationale).  Not saying impossible, just more difficult.  The good news, if she listens to me I have a client, not a customer.
Aug 6, 2009 4:39 pm

[quote=anonymous]BerkshireBull, I have to completely disagree with the UL suggestion.  UL is a product that absolutely sucks long term.  The flexibility that is looked upon as a positive is one of the worst parts about the product.  Human nature gets in the way.  If a premium payment isn’t necessary, one may get skipped.  Skipping premiums drasitcally increase the chance of lapse.  At $40/month for $100,000, ultimately, she will end up with no cash and no insurance when she gets older.   If her health changes, her family will have a Mom that is drastically underinsured.

  At this point she is much better off buying a $500,000 term policy that is less than $20/month and putting the balance into savings.[/quote]   There is no way underwriting is going to let you write that much face value on a single 20 year old with no dependents making $15,000 per year.
Aug 6, 2009 4:45 pm

[quote=BerkshireBull][quote=anonymous]BerkshireBull, I have to completely disagree with the UL suggestion.  UL is a product that absolutely sucks long term.  The flexibility that is looked upon as a positive is one of the worst parts about the product.  Human nature gets in the way.  If a premium payment isn’t necessary, one may get skipped.  Skipping premiums drasitcally increase the chance of lapse.  At $40/month for $100,000, ultimately, she will end up with no cash and no insurance when she gets older.   If her health changes, her family will have a Mom that is drastically underinsured.

  At this point she is much better off buying a $500,000 term policy that is less than $20/month and putting the balance into savings.[/quote]   There is no way underwriting is going to let you write that much face value on a single 20 year old with no dependents making $15,000 per year.[/quote]   I think I'd beg to differ on this one.  I think she's 22, but you can get a half mil term policy on someone earning $15,000.  Their human life value is over half a mil if they have the SAME salary until age 65.  Underwriters will understand too based on age that within a year or so that person will be earning much more than $15k.
Aug 6, 2009 7:45 pm

You insurance guys are idiots.  This chick does not need 500k in life insurance.  She MAYBE needs disability insurance.  Set her up a nice little roth, a small amount of disability insurance, and make sure she is using her 401k at work.  You’ll get business down the road and hopefully she’ll refer you to her parents.  With no dependents and at 22 she does not need freaking life insurance and won’t be able to vizualize her future need for it so she is likely to cancel the policy at age 23 anyway.

  My god, 500k term insurance.  IDIOTS!   ANANOLOSER, save me the drama of your long winded hypothetical reason she needs it.
Aug 6, 2009 7:58 pm

[quote=hotair1]You insurance guys are idiots.  This chick does not need 500k in life insurance.  She MAYBE needs disability insurance.  Set her up a nice little roth, a small amount of disability insurance, and make sure she is using her 401k at work.  You’ll get business down the road and hopefully she’ll refer you to her parents.  With no dependents and at 22 she does not need freaking life insurance and won’t be able to vizualize her future need for it so she is likely to cancel the policy at age 23 anyway.

  My god, 500k term insurance.  IDIOTS!   ANANOLOSER, save me the drama of your long winded hypothetical reason she needs it.[/quote]   Here's why you're the idiot:   At age 22 how much will a $500,000 term policy cost?  $30 a month?  If she decided not to get life insurance where would that $30 be going?  Starbucks?  The mall?  Something that doesn't make her financial situation better?  More than likely that same $30 wouldn't be systematically being saved somewhere, and even if it was, its $30 freaking dollars.  In 3 years the girl is married and is buying a house.  Now she has an insurance need of anywhere from $500,000-$1,000,000.  2 years after that she has a kid, and now all of a sudden her insurance need is an extra $500,000-$1,000,000.  Please explain the rationale why it is insane to buy a small insurance policy a couple years before you actually need more than that?  You're locking in future insurability knowing that within a couple of years it will be imperative to have that coverage in force.  How much do you think we make on a $30/month term policy?  I would make $200 GDC on that, and net $75 payout on that.  We ain't getting rich off the stuff, its doing whats best for the client.
Aug 6, 2009 7:59 pm

[quote=hotair1] You insurance guys are idiots. This chick does not need 500k in life insurance. She MAYBE needs disability insurance. Set her up a nice little roth, a small amount of disability insurance, and make sure she is using her 401k at work. You’ll get business down the road and hopefully she’ll refer you to her parents. With no dependents and at 22 she does not need freaking life insurance and won’t be able to vizualize her future need for it so she is likely to cancel the policy at age 23 anyway.



My god, 500k term insurance. IDIOTS!



ANANOLOSER, save me the drama of your long winded hypothetical reason she needs it.[/quote]



hotair - ever know someone who died at 25? 30? What is her parents’ situation? What is her debt situation? Does she have $200k in student loans because she went to Harvard or Duke?



I know someone who died at 30, and the life insurance saved their parents from going into debt.



What if she had a kid? What about the kid’s standard of living?

Aug 6, 2009 8:01 pm

Your both are making WILD assumptions. She might need 100k, that’s it.  500k is over kill to fill your pockets with an extra dime.  9 times out of 10 there is no damn 22 year old in the world that needs 500k. 

  Her saving for retirement early is a much better decision.  She can buy more term when she get's older.   PLUS .. you insurance guys always try to over insure people.  ALWAYS.  "you need 10x you annual salary"  Right.... forget to mention the tax free nature of insurnace and that salary she would have gotten was taxed did ya?  Good for you for being honest. 
Aug 6, 2009 8:11 pm

[quote=hotair1]Your both are making WILD assumptions. She might need 100k, that’s it.  500k is over kill to fill your pockets with an extra dime.  9 times out of 10 there is no damn 22 year old in the world that needs 500k. 

  Her saving for retirement early is a much better decision.    Explain this to me.  She's 22, so retirement isn't for another 40 or so years.  Why would saving for something 40+ years away be so much more important than covering something that may be a necessity within 1, 5, 8, 12, or 17 years?  Is that $30/month going to shoot her retirement savings plan down like a sniper gun?   She can buy more term when she get's older.   You're saying he should have her go back through underwriting every 3 years when her "need" increases?  Why not just knock most of it out at once when the price difference is only a couple bucks a month, AND she is healthy enough to get the stuff.   PLUS .. you insurance guys always try to over insure people.  ALWAYS.    So?  Better than being underinsured. [/quote]
Aug 6, 2009 8:13 pm

I don’t even sell insurance - at all. But even I recognize the need.



I’m not making wild assumptions. I don’t know this girl’s case. I did not do a fact finder on her.



The simple fact is, none of us know.   Young people die every day. More people died between 18-22 years of age in vehicle accidents last year than in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. Several of those 18-22 year-olds had kids.



For someone to say that 22 year-olds don’t need life insurance as a blanket statement is incorrect.

Aug 6, 2009 8:22 pm

Not very many extra dimes evidently.  You’ve got to think longer term with this stuff. 

  You are technically correct.  She doesn't NEED a $500k term policy.  However, once she gets it, she's got it.  There are a lot of what if scenarios that come up where owning this policy now is a big benefit.    For example.  I have a 50 year old prospect with Leukemia.  He's got a 20 year convertable term policy that he bought about 18 years ago.  He knows it's going to end in a couple of years, but he's uninsurable now.  He and his wife blew all their money a few years ago when he thougth he was going to kick the bucket.  Turns out he's doing well, but he's really behind the retirement savings 8-ball.  His concern is for his wife.  What if his Leukemia comes out of remission 5 years from now, after the term policy has ended, he dies and leaves his wife behind to pick up the pieces?  He knows they don't have the money to keep her in their house living the lifestyle she's used to.  So, he's going to turn his term into permanent so that if it happens she's not thrown out on the street or forced to sell the house at a deep loss to lower the bills.  He's uninsurable right now, so it's not like he can go out and get a new policy to replace the one that's ending.    So, no, she doesn't need the policy, but life happens.  Our job is to mitigate risk.  $1 a day mitigates a lot of risk.   
Aug 6, 2009 8:30 pm

[quote=Spaceman Spiff]For example.  I have a 50 year old prospect with Leukemia.  He’s got a 20 year convertable term policy that he bought about 18 years ago.  He knows it’s going to end in a couple of years, but he’s uninsurable now.  He and his wife blew all their money a few years ago when he thougth he was going to kick the bucket.  Turns out he’s doing well, but he’s really behind the retirement savings 8-ball.  His concern is for his wife.  What if his Leukemia comes out of remission 5 years from now, after the term policy has ended, he dies and leaves his wife behind to pick up the pieces?  He knows they don’t have the money to keep her in their house living the lifestyle she’s used to.  So, he’s going to turn his term into permanent so that if it happens she’s not thrown out on the street or forced to sell the house at a deep loss to lower the bills.  He’s uninsurable right now, so it’s not like he can go out and get a new policy to replace the one that’s ending. 

  So, no, she doesn't need the policy, but life happens.  Our job is to mitigate risk.  $1 a day mitigates a lot of risk.  [/quote]   This kind of stuff happens all the time.  I remember about 18 months ago I'd scheduled a meeting w/one of my clients to go over long term care options.  They both indicated during their initial meeting that they were both interested at some pt. in looking at some options.  Turns out they cancel the meeting.  Why?  Because the husband went in for a physical and they found a clogged heart valve that needed open heart surgery.  The condition is now chronic and he's uninsurable.  He's only 53, and most likely wouldn't NEED nursing home care for another 20-25 years minimum otherwise, but now we just have to hope it never becomes an issue.
Aug 6, 2009 10:26 pm

If she’s hot you should bone her and send her on her way. Be a lot more fun than schlepping a term life app. that only has a couple hundred in annualized life premium.

 
Aug 6, 2009 10:28 pm

[quote=3rdyrp2][quote=hotair1]You insurance guys are idiots.  This chick does not need 500k in life insurance.  She MAYBE needs disability insurance.  Set her up a nice little roth, a small amount of disability insurance, and make sure she is using her 401k at work.  You’ll get business down the road and hopefully she’ll refer you to her parents.  With no dependents and at 22 she does not need freaking life insurance and won’t be able to vizualize her future need for it so she is likely to cancel the policy at age 23 anyway.

  My god, 500k term insurance.  IDIOTS!   ANANOLOSER, save me the drama of your long winded hypothetical reason she needs it.[/quote]   Here's why you're the idiot:   At age 22 how much will a $500,000 term policy cost?  $30 a month?  If she decided not to get life insurance where would that $30 be going?  Starbucks?  The mall?  Something that doesn't make her financial situation better?  More than likely that same $30 wouldn't be systematically being saved somewhere, and even if it was, its $30 freaking dollars.  In 3 years the girl is married and is buying a house.  Now she has an insurance need of anywhere from $500,000-$1,000,000.  2 years after that she has a kid, and now all of a sudden her insurance need is an extra $500,000-$1,000,000.  Please explain the rationale why it is insane to buy a small insurance policy a couple years before you actually need more than that?  You're locking in future insurability knowing that within a couple of years it will be imperative to have that coverage in force.  How much do you think we make on a $30/month term policy?  I would make $200 GDC on that, and net $75 payout on that.  We ain't getting rich off the stuff, its doing whats best for the client.[/quote]

$1 million dollars at 22?!  Kids at 27? $ 2 million of life insurance at 27 for a stay at home mom?!  Dude, you are out of your mind. You must sell a sh*tload of insurance with that level of conviction. Yikes
Aug 6, 2009 10:30 pm

[quote=3rdyrp2][quote=BerkshireBull][quote=anonymous]BerkshireBull, I have to completely disagree with the UL suggestion.  UL is a product that absolutely sucks long term.  The flexibility that is looked upon as a positive is one of the worst parts about the product.  Human nature gets in the way.  If a premium payment isn’t necessary, one may get skipped.  Skipping premiums drasitcally increase the chance of lapse.  At $40/month for $100,000, ultimately, she will end up with no cash and no insurance when she gets older.   If her health changes, her family will have a Mom that is drastically underinsured.

  At this point she is much better off buying a $500,000 term policy that is less than $20/month and putting the balance into savings.[/quote]   There is no way underwriting is going to let you write that much face value on a single 20 year old with no dependents making $15,000 per year.[/quote]   I think I'd beg to differ on this one.  I think she's 22, but you can get a half mil term policy on someone earning $15,000.  Their human life value is over half a mil if they have the SAME salary until age 65.  Underwriters will understand too based on age that within a year or so that person will be earning much more than $15k.[/quote]   Most companies will only go up to 25x annual income.
Aug 6, 2009 10:31 pm

 This is why insurance rep’s have bad reputations. 

Aug 6, 2009 10:39 pm

[quote=svm21] [quote=3rdyrp2][quote=hotair1]You insurance guys are idiots.  This chick does not need 500k in life insurance.  She MAYBE needs disability insurance.  Set her up a nice little roth, a small amount of disability insurance, and make sure she is using her 401k at work.  You’ll get business down the road and hopefully she’ll refer you to her parents.  With no dependents and at 22 she does not need freaking life insurance and won’t be able to vizualize her future need for it so she is likely to cancel the policy at age 23 anyway.

  My god, 500k term insurance.  IDIOTS!   ANANOLOSER, save me the drama of your long winded hypothetical reason she needs it.[/quote]   Here's why you're the idiot:   At age 22 how much will a $500,000 term policy cost?  $30 a month?  If she decided not to get life insurance where would that $30 be going?  Starbucks?  The mall?  Something that doesn't make her financial situation better?  More than likely that same $30 wouldn't be systematically being saved somewhere, and even if it was, its $30 freaking dollars.  In 3 years the girl is married and is buying a house.  Now she has an insurance need of anywhere from $500,000-$1,000,000.  2 years after that she has a kid, and now all of a sudden her insurance need is an extra $500,000-$1,000,000.  Please explain the rationale why it is insane to buy a small insurance policy a couple years before you actually need more than that?  You're locking in future insurability knowing that within a couple of years it will be imperative to have that coverage in force.  How much do you think we make on a $30/month term policy?  I would make $200 GDC on that, and net $75 payout on that.  We ain't getting rich off the stuff, its doing whats best for the client.[/quote]

$1 million dollars at 22?!  Kids at 27? $ 2 million of life insurance at 27 for a stay at home mom?!  Dude, you are out of your mind. You must sell a sh*tload of insurance with that level of conviction. Yikes
[/quote]   Whoa, whoa, whoa.  I didn't say $1,000,000 at 22.  I said its not UNREASONABLE to sell someone a $500,000 policy at age 22.  Its also not unreasonable to have a kid at age 27.  And why is she a stay at home mom?  Where did all these assumptions come from?  If she is married with a mortgage and a kid at age 27, depending on her income (I work in DC, where incomes are very high and so are mortgages, and the concept of "stay at home mom" has gone the way of the Dodo bird) her insurance need could EASILY be $2,000,000.  It's not extremely common, but it happens.
Aug 6, 2009 10:48 pm

Impossible. No 27 year old needs $2 million. Unless you are a I-banker at Goldman, own a nice apartment in the East Village, and have a wife with three kids under the age of 5 at home. If your not that guy/girl then you don’t need that much. Please.  Drink the kool-aid. Go ahead drink it. We know you like it.

Aug 6, 2009 10:51 pm

I get the vibe that insurance doesn’t play that large a part in your book of business.

Aug 6, 2009 10:52 pm

It once did. Im a former NWM guy. Great company, notoriously expensive polices. 

Aug 6, 2009 11:00 pm

Here’s a fun fact about me:  I’ve never sold a policy of over $1,000,000.  Only twice have I recommended anything over $1,000,000 to a client.  I personally think that if one of my clients died, the spouse/children/heirs would get by on a million bucks.  They don’t need to pay the mortgage off right away, they don’t need to max fund retirement right away.  I think they’ll get by.  My thing is, I can see how having that additional insurance would reduce ALL of the burden that a family does not need, but will face, at a difficult time like that.  The last thing a new widow/widower needs is to all of a sudden be stuck w/a $750,000 mortgage, two kids and $100,000 less income coming into the house.  A half million bucks isn’t going to eliminate that burden.  A million bucks may not even be sufficient long term

Aug 6, 2009 11:09 pm

Good point. However if they have a 750k Mortgage and the other spouse was only making 100k. Well then they never had a chance. Darwinism at its best. Poor kids.

Just kidding, point made.

Aug 7, 2009 12:39 am

[quote=hotair1]You insurance guys are idiots.  This chick does not need 500k in life insurance.  She MAYBE needs disability insurance.  Set her up a nice little roth, a small amount of disability insurance, and make sure she is using her 401k at work.  You’ll get business down the road and hopefully she’ll refer you to her parents.  With no dependents and at 22 she does not need freaking life insurance and won’t be able to vizualize her future need for it so she is likely to cancel the policy at age 23 anyway.

  My god, 500k term insurance.  IDIOTS!   ANANOLOSER, save me the drama of your long winded hypothetical reason she needs it.[/quote]   One of the first death claims that I paid was on a guy in his late 20's.  He was about 25 and single when he bought a life insurance policy from me.  Not too long after that he knocked up his girlfriend and they got married.  Before the baby was born, he found out that he had cancer.  He died shortly after having his child.    One can't buy insurance just because they need it.  One can only buy insurance at decent rates when they can prove that they aren't dying and they are healthy.  Insurance is purchased with one's health and not dollars.   The question really needs to be whether the purchase of insurance is worthwhile to protect a future insurance need.   If insurance was free, should she get it even though it's not needed yet?  Of course.  If it was $1000/month, should she get it?  Of course not.  What if it was less than $15/month?   Gentleman, for a healthy 22 year old female, an annually renewable $500,000 convertible term policy costs less than $15/month.   Every week, I talk to at least one person who needs coverage and can't get it at decent rates.  Is it worth $15/month to protect one's insurability?  It sure seems like a no brainer to me.  Policies get canceled because people can't afford them.  $15/month policies don't get canceled.   Maybe disability insurance?  Unless she doesn't need income, there should be no maybe in front of disability insurance.  
Aug 7, 2009 1:02 am

[quote=hotair1]Your both are making WILD assumptions. She might need 100k, that’s it.  500k is over kill to fill your pockets with an extra dime.  9 times out of 10 there is no damn 22 year old in the world that needs 500k. 

  Her saving for retirement early is a much better decision.  She can buy more term when she get's older.   PLUS .. you insurance guys always try to over insure people.  ALWAYS.  "you need 10x you annual salary"  Right.... forget to mention the tax free nature of insurnace and that salary she would have gotten was taxed did ya?  Good for you for being honest. [/quote]   Extra dime?   The ANNUAL premium for $100,000 is $91.  The premium for $500,000 is $150.  It should be pretty obvious that this has nothing to do with commission.   Do you really believe that this has any impact on how much she saves for retirement?    As for the 10x salary, using a multiple isn't a smart way to determine need, but it sounds like you think that 10x is some big number.   10x isn't a big number.  Joe makes $100,000 and is 30 years old with 3 young kids.  If his income increases on average by 4% a year, his total income would be over $7,000,000.   If his income is replaced by a lumpsum of $1,000,000, his wife can probably safely take an income from it of $40,000 before tax.  That's a pretty big income hit.  Don't forget that money from this also needs to be invested for retirement to replace his 401(k) and the match.   In some situations 10X will be plenty.  Other times, it won't be.  It isn't a big number.    Also, since term life insurance is so cheap, when in doubt about insurance premiums, shouldn't one buy too much instead of too little?  If he's healthy, a 20 year policy for $750,000 would cost $322.  $1,250,000 would cost $485.  Why would we recommend that someone pinch pennies in this situation?  The extra $500,000 of coverage is $13/month.    Much of what I sell is combinations of whole life and term insurance.  In this case, the premium (and my commission) is identical regardless of how much coverage is purchased.
Aug 7, 2009 1:10 am

"$1 million dollars at 22?!  Kids at 27? $ 2 million of life insurance at 27 for a stay at home mom?!  Dude, you are out of your mind. You must sell a sh*tload of insurance with that level of conviction."

We're making lots of assumptions here.  How much coverage should a stay at home mom have?  We're missing facts, but I would argue that the amount is usually greater than someone thinks.   Why does someone choose to be a stay at home mom?  It's often because that is what the family thinks is best for their situation.  They want a parent to be home raising the kid.  In these situations, what happens if the mom dies?  Ideally, the dad can be a stay at home dad.  This doesn't need to be permanent, but raising the kids does need to take precedence over making money.  Life insurance allows the kids to come first.  Life insurance on a stay at home mom serves the purpose of replacing the bread winner's income.    Again, I can't state it enough, since the cost of term insurance is so cheap, it makes sense to buy enough to make sure that the family can thrive instead of just enough to survive.
Aug 7, 2009 1:15 am
"Most companies will only go up to 25x annual income."   No companies limit it in this manner.  Companies have limits like this for the amount that they will issue without wanting more information.   To get more coverage simply just takes an explanation.   "She only made $15,000 last year, but it was her first year in the job.  We expect her income to be closer to $50,000 this year."  All of a sudden, getting $500,000 of coverage is no longer an issue.
Aug 7, 2009 1:18 am
svm21:

Impossible. No 27 year old needs $2 million. Unless you are a I-banker at Goldman, own a nice apartment in the East Village, and have a wife with three kids under the age of 5 at home. If your not that guy/girl then you don’t need that much. Please.  Drink the kool-aid. Go ahead drink it. We know you like it.

  Won't $2,000,000 give a family a safe income of around $80,000 a year before tax?   This is a ton of money for someone making $40,000.  It's not so much for someone making $150,000 with plans to send the kids to private school. 
Aug 7, 2009 1:22 am
3rdyrp2:

Here’s a fun fact about me:  I’ve never sold a policy of over $1,000,000.  Only twice have I recommended anything over $1,000,000 to a client.  I personally think that if one of my clients died, the spouse/children/heirs would get by on a million bucks.  They don’t need to pay the mortgage off right away, they don’t need to max fund retirement right away.  I think they’ll get by.  My thing is, I can see how having that additional insurance would reduce ALL of the burden that a family does not need, but will face, at a difficult time like that.  The last thing a new widow/widower needs is to all of a sudden be stuck w/a $750,000 mortgage, two kids and $100,000 less income coming into the house.  A half million bucks isn’t going to eliminate that burden.  A million bucks may not even be sufficient long term

  You either have poor clients or you are doing them a disservice.   Do your clients want their families to just get by or do they want them to thrive?  I'm guessing that you don't have kids.  Nobody wants their family to struggle.  You will have clients who die prematurely.  For a few extra dollars, they wouldn't have to struggle.
Aug 7, 2009 2:26 am

This is totally off the topic but would you mind sharing how much life insurance you personally carry and the type, anon?  (Just curious, this is not an attempt to insult or anything)

Aug 7, 2009 2:38 am
anonymous:

[quote=3rdyrp2]Here’s a fun fact about me:  I’ve never sold a policy of over $1,000,000.  Only twice have I recommended anything over $1,000,000 to a client.  I personally think that if one of my clients died, the spouse/children/heirs would get by on a million bucks.  They don’t need to pay the mortgage off right away, they don’t need to max fund retirement right away.  I think they’ll get by.  My thing is, I can see how having that additional insurance would reduce ALL of the burden that a family does not need, but will face, at a difficult time like that.  The last thing a new widow/widower needs is to all of a sudden be stuck w/a $750,000 mortgage, two kids and $100,000 less income coming into the house.  A half million bucks isn’t going to eliminate that burden.  A million bucks may not even be sufficient long term

  You either have poor clients or you are doing them a disservice.   Do your clients want their families to just get by or do they want them to thrive?  I'm guessing that you don't have kids.  Nobody wants their family to struggle.  You will have clients who die prematurely.  For a few extra dollars, they wouldn't have to struggle.[/quote]   One thing I do quite often actually is recommend them buying life insurance from other places if they need more than they should buy from me.  My area of the country is heavily infiltrated with military people, so theres a 60% chance that someone in a client household of mine has the means to open a USAA account, and their term insurance destroys ours.  Several of my clients have bought insurance of over $1,000,000 from them.  It's not a huge priority of mine to have a client buy insurance through me if its not permanent (Too much of a headache w/underwriting follow-up and very rarely does the process go smoothly), and clients appreciate me outsourcing some of the stuff so they know I'm not out to get ALL the commission.  I've had zero complaints about this type of strategy from any of my clients.
Aug 7, 2009 3:11 am

Every insurance guy I’ve ever met has a horror story of the perfect non-insurance storm.  Problem is they are all living to tell it and so are their clients…


Aug 7, 2009 5:57 am

your right about the USAA thing. Insane cheap. Insane. 

Aug 7, 2009 12:54 pm
BerkshireBull:

This is totally off the topic but would you mind sharing how much life insurance you personally carry and the type, anon?  (Just curious, this is not an attempt to insult or anything)

  I carry several million dollars worth of coverage.  (More than $3,000,000 and less than $10,000,000.)   I have some whole life.  I have some annually renewable term coverage that will ultimately get converted.  I have some cheap 20 year level term insurance that will ultimately get dropped. 
Aug 7, 2009 1:00 pm
voltmoie:

Every insurance guy I’ve ever met has a horror story of the perfect non-insurance storm.  Problem is they are all living to tell it and so are their clients…


My dead clients aren't alive to tell about it.  Someone's health changing is not a perfect storm.  It doesn't take a perfect storm for someone to die.  Look at the obits today.  Someone with young children will be listed.    One of my clients is uninsurable and although he is currently pretty healthy (from a feeling perspective), he has very little chance to live 5 years.   His wife recently had a baby.  He's very scared about the fact that he won't be able to provide for them.   The one thing that most of the people who can't get insurance at decent rates have in common was that in their 20's, they were usually still insurable.   We can all agree that insurance is important.   When something so important is so inexpensive, it doesn't make lots of sense to not buy it.
Aug 7, 2009 1:04 pm
svm21:

your right about the USAA thing. Insane cheap. Insane. 

  What am I missing here?  Plenty of companies are less expensive than USAA for term insurance.   For any age, for any amount, there are usually 10+ companies that are less expensive than USAA. 
Aug 7, 2009 1:07 pm

Also, are you talking about the insurance for the military spouse? Because SGLI should cover the servicemember, unless they are field grade officer or above.



And if we’re talking veterans VGLI works almost as well.

Aug 7, 2009 1:14 pm

Maybe slightly off topic, but one of the things I do with couples (this is for non-estate planning life insurance purposes only - IOW income replacement), is have a serious and honest discussion with them about “what would you do if YOU died” and point to the husband, then to the wife, and then to both of them.  Since they have usually never ponered this, I talk them through the options.  They think 500K is enough.  I tell them “OK, YOU have a 150K a year job”, how is 500K going to replace that?  “Well, we would pay off our morgtage…and our credit cards…and our cars…and our student loans…”.  Well, OK, so that leaves, hmmmm, about 50K in your pocket.  You’re a stay at home mom with 2 kids under 10.  Are you going to go back to work and make 60K a year?  NO?  Really?  Because that 3000Sq ft house costs something to run.  As does the food, the clothes for Johny and Jane, the piano lessons, little league, the 32 birthay parties they go to each year, the private tutor you have for Jane.  And oh crap, what about college?  Don’t worry, that will only be about 200K for both of them.  But hey, at least you have the mortgage paid off.  

  By now, they are starting to get it.  They have built a 250K lifestyle on a 150K income, and now that 150K income is gone.   On to the wife.  So what do YOU do (pointing to the husband) if she dies?  Who watches the kids?  Yeah, your boss will understand for a few months.  Then it's back to the grind, 11 hour days, business trips to Phoenix and Chicago, 7:30am meetings with the boss's bosses.  Man, I hope Johnny and Jane never get sick.  Or have a dance recital.  Or have soccer practice.  Or have teacher conferences.  Or have to do homework before bed.  Or want to eat breakfast at 8:00 before the bus comes at 8:30 (oh crap, that 7:30am meeting!!).  How's that working out for you?  A full time nanny or babysitter might be nice.  Or maybe a less taxing job.  Oh, scientists don't get "less taxing jobs making 150K a year at age 36?"  Wow.  That stinks.  Hmmmm.  Scratch my chin.  "what to do, what to do."   So now they understand why the wife needs life insurance.  This is real sh!t.  A good acquaintance of ours in town just lost her 36 year-old husband.  Freak accident (I'm not joking about this).  They have 3 kids under 10.  Now she has to go back to work.  It's not as extreme as the scenario above, but they are going to be seriously stretched.  For life.  And an extra, I don't know, $100 a month would have solved all of their (financial) problems for life.    Never say never.  Prepare for the worst. 
Aug 7, 2009 1:44 pm

This is something that I have done when a client says that they have enough insurance when I know that they don’t.

  Ex. John makes $100,000 and has $500,000 of life insurance and thinks that his family would be just fine on that amount of money.     Me: "John, if I gave you $500,000 and in exchange you could never earn another dime would you accept the money?" John: "No.  It's not enough.  I'll run out of money."   More often, I'll just run them through a little exercise. Me: "Ok, you have $500,000 and you think that will be enough.  It might be, but let's take a look to be sure.   Since this money needs to last, Sally will need to invest it.  What sort of rate of return do you think that she'll get?" (They'll either give a low number or if they give something high, I'll explain how they can really only safely withdraw about 4% of the money.) John: "Maybe 3-4%" Me: "Let's look at 4%.  $500,000/ 4%/12 months = $1,666/month.  Would your family live in the way that you would like with $1,666/month. John: "No way" Me: "Fortunately, it shouldn't be very expensive to get the insurance coverage that you need." John: "ok"
Aug 7, 2009 2:13 pm

[quote=anonymous]This is something that I have done when a client says that they have enough insurance when I know that they don’t.

  Ex. John makes $100,000 and has $500,000 of life insurance and thinks that his family would be just fine on that amount of money.     Me: "John, if I gave you $500,000 and in exchange you could never earn another dime would you accept the money?" John: "No.  It's not enough.  I'll run out of money."   More often, I'll just run them through a little exercise. Me: "Ok, you have $500,000 and you think that will be enough.  It might be, but let's take a look to be sure.   Since this money needs to last, Sally will need to invest it.  What sort of rate of return do you think that she'll get?" (They'll either give a low number or if they give something high, I'll explain how they can really only safely withdraw about 4% of the money.) John: "Maybe 3-4%" Me: "Let's look at 4%.  $500,000/ 4%/12 months = $1,666/month.  Would your family live in the way that you would like with $1,666/month. John: "No way" Me: "Fortunately, it shouldn't be very expensive to get the insurance coverage that you need." John: "ok"[/quote]   Does that extra insurance that they'll probably never use cover them when they get to retirement and have not saved enough to travel to see those 2-3 kids and their grandchildren? j/k   I think insurance guys will always look at the risk and investment guys will always look at the reward.  I try to be both but probably under insure most people in most insurance guys minds. I go 10x take home pay and invest the rest.  Perhaps my perspective will change when I have some clients die.
Aug 7, 2009 2:16 pm
voltmoie:

Every insurance guy I’ve ever met has a horror story of the perfect non-insurance storm.  Problem is they are all living to tell it and so are their clients…


  I know insurance guys that will scare people about the market and economy to the point that the person buys a huge cash-value LI policy and then they put the rest of their money in fixed annuities.  They will often have people cash out their 401k (if they're still working there) and take the hit to buy LI and fixed annuities with the money as well.  I think there was someone here that was doing that for a while, his name escapes me though, Bobby it might have been.
Aug 7, 2009 2:21 pm

30 day war = No work all insurance what if’s is





Anyone at least sold a decent policy this week?

Aug 7, 2009 2:58 pm

[quote=voltmoie][quote=anonymous]This is something that I have done when a client says that they have enough insurance when I know that they don’t.

  Ex. John makes $100,000 and has $500,000 of life insurance and thinks that his family would be just fine on that amount of money.     Me: "John, if I gave you $500,000 and in exchange you could never earn another dime would you accept the money?" John: "No.  It's not enough.  I'll run out of money."   More often, I'll just run them through a little exercise. Me: "Ok, you have $500,000 and you think that will be enough.  It might be, but let's take a look to be sure.   Since this money needs to last, Sally will need to invest it.  What sort of rate of return do you think that she'll get?" (They'll either give a low number or if they give something high, I'll explain how they can really only safely withdraw about 4% of the money.) John: "Maybe 3-4%" Me: "Let's look at 4%.  $500,000/ 4%/12 months = $1,666/month.  Would your family live in the way that you would like with $1,666/month. John: "No way" Me: "Fortunately, it shouldn't be very expensive to get the insurance coverage that you need." John: "ok"[/quote]   Does that extra insurance that they'll probably never use cover them when they get to retirement and have not saved enough to travel to see those 2-3 kids and their grandchildren? j/k   I think insurance guys will always look at the risk and investment guys will always look at the reward.  I try to be both but probably under insure most people in most insurance guys minds. I go 10x take home pay and invest the rest.  Perhaps my perspective will change when I have some clients die.[/quote]   This kind of anti-insurance argument is so very silly.  If the client in the above example is 30 and we increase his insurance from $500,000 to $1,500,000 by having him purchase a 10 year level $1,000,000 term policy, we have raised his insurance premium by $20/month.   Is $20/month going to stop him from traveling and doing other things when he's older?  Of course not.  In fact, he's not going to invest less simply because he has added $20 more to his monthly expenses.   Why are you having people purchase 10x their take home pay?  Do your job and find out what your client wants to accomplish.  Most want their families to maintain their standard of living.   6x take home pay typically won't do this.    Ex. John is 30 and is making $100,000.  He is married with 2 young kids.  He takes home $60,000 and is contributing $6000 to his 401(k) and his employer is putting away $3,000.    You have him buy a $600,000 20 year term policy for $270.  If he dies today, his wife gets $600,000.  Let's assume that John blows $1,000/month on himself.   That would put the families need at $4,000/month instead of $5,000, but then they have added health insurance costs and $750/month is no longer being put away pre-tax for retirement.   Anyway, how is $600,000 going to be enough to give the family $60,000 of after tax money?   Instead of coming up with arguments of why this might be enough, first look at what would happen if they bought 10x gross income instead of 10x net.  They would buy $1,000,000 of coverage.  The premium would be $400 instead of $270.   Why take the chance for a lousy $11/month difference.   It's not as if because the insurance is $11/month more expensive, your client is going to change his roth contribution from $5000 down to $4870.  Instead what will happen is that it will get eaten up in his budget.  At the end of the year, his checking account balance will be $7,354.19 instead of $7,484.19.   Trying to save a few dollars on insurance premiums is penny wise and pound foolish.  
Aug 7, 2009 3:02 pm
BerkshireBull:

[quote=voltmoie]Every insurance guy I’ve ever met has a horror story of the perfect non-insurance storm.  Problem is they are all living to tell it and so are their clients…


  I know insurance guys that will scare people about the market and economy to the point that the person buys a huge cash-value LI policy and then they put the rest of their money in fixed annuities.  They will often have people cash out their 401k (if they're still working there) and take the hit to buy LI and fixed annuities with the money as well.  I think there was someone here that was doing that for a while, his name escapes me though, Bobby it might have been.[/quote] You know some slime balls.   I've never seen anybody cash out their 401(k) early to put the money into a life insurance policy.  I've got to call B.S. on this one.
Aug 7, 2009 3:24 pm

[quote=voltmoie][quote=anonymous]This is something that I have done when a client says that they have enough insurance when I know that they don’t.

  Ex. John makes $100,000 and has $500,000 of life insurance and thinks that his family would be just fine on that amount of money.     Me: "John, if I gave you $500,000 and in exchange you could never earn another dime would you accept the money?" John: "No.  It's not enough.  I'll run out of money."   More often, I'll just run them through a little exercise. Me: "Ok, you have $500,000 and you think that will be enough.  It might be, but let's take a look to be sure.   Since this money needs to last, Sally will need to invest it.  What sort of rate of return do you think that she'll get?" (They'll either give a low number or if they give something high, I'll explain how they can really only safely withdraw about 4% of the money.) John: "Maybe 3-4%" Me: "Let's look at 4%.  $500,000/ 4%/12 months = $1,666/month.  Would your family live in the way that you would like with $1,666/month. John: "No way" Me: "Fortunately, it shouldn't be very expensive to get the insurance coverage that you need." John: "ok"[/quote]   Does that extra insurance that they'll probably never use cover them when they get to retirement and have not saved enough to travel to see those 2-3 kids and their grandchildren? j/k   I think insurance guys will always look at the risk and investment guys will always look at the reward.  I try to be both but probably under insure most people in most insurance guys minds. I go 10x take home pay and invest the rest.  Perhaps my perspective will change when I have some clients die.[/quote]   You're wrong Volt.  Our job is not to make people wealthy...it's to protect their wealth.  Yes, part of protecting wealth is growing it.  But if spending a hundred or two hundred a month is going to prevent someone from retiring, then they have other problems.  Besides, it's all relative...the more money you earn, the more coverage you need, so the more you can afford to buy.  Don't be penny wise and pound foolish, and try to wring every last dime of growth out of your assets.  10X isn't bad (not quite enough, but...), but I would look at 10X gross income, since much of the net difference goes to 401K contributions, health care, disability insurance, life insurance, etc. (unless you are simply talking net of taxes but gross of voluntary deductions).
Aug 7, 2009 5:23 pm

I sell insurance, see the value, and find it an easy sell.  Use net of taxes, it’s a fair number for most of the people I’ve sold insurance.  If my clients die will they be better off than they would have been if I had not knocked on their door, yes.  If they don’t die will they be better off as well, hopefully.  I can live with myself and they can sleep better at night. Win/Win for both of us.  I’ll save the castle and moat building for more affluent clients.

and look here B24 … I’ll bore my clients rich, ok? 

Aug 7, 2009 5:36 pm

I hear you, voltmoie.  I just don’t understand with insurance pricing being what it is why you wouldn’t have them buy slightly more when there is a huge upside to doing this if they die prematurely and no downside if they live a long happy life. 

  Because of the combination of breakpoints and policy fees, getting incrementally more insurance does not cost incrementally more in premium dollars.   Do you ever give your client a choice?  "Mr. Client, I think you need at least $600,000 of coverage.  It will cost $270.  If you want to play it safe for your family and get $1,000,000 for your family, it will cost $130 for the extra $400,000 of coverage.  Would you prefer $270 fo $600,000 or $400 for $1,000,000."   I think that what you'll find is that most of your clients would actually want more coverage if they knew the price differential.  This seems like material information that should be disclosed to them. 
Aug 7, 2009 5:58 pm

[quote=voltmoie] and look here B24 … I’ll bore my clients rich, ok?

[/quote]



Nice!

Aug 7, 2009 6:50 pm

Ok Anon,

  I'm going to be in the market to increase my life coverage when I get married in January.  I have a UL I bought 3yrs ago when I got into the business and was thinking about picking up a Pac Life VUL after I get married.  I will look into your WL idea though.  What product would you suggest?
Aug 7, 2009 8:04 pm

[quote=BerkshireBull]Ok Anon,

  I'm going to be in the market to increase my life coverage when I get married in January.  I have a UL I bought 3yrs ago when I got into the business and was thinking about picking up a Pac Life VUL after I get married.  I will look into your WL idea though.  What product would you suggest?[/quote]   Are you asking me a serious question or are you busting on me? 
Aug 7, 2009 8:10 pm

[quote=anonymous][quote=BerkshireBull]Ok Anon,

  I'm going to be in the market to increase my life coverage when I get married in January.  I have a UL I bought 3yrs ago when I got into the business and was thinking about picking up a Pac Life VUL after I get married.  I will look into your WL idea though.  What product would you suggest?[/quote]   Are you asking me a serious question or are you busting on me?  [/quote]   I'm not patronizing you.  Give me a WL recommendation and I'll take a serious look at it.  Maybe I'll buy it, and if I like it enough I'll even show it to clients down the road.  You seem to be unbiased among the companies you represent that's why I asked your opinion.  I wouldn't be asking a NML guy, for example, to tell me which WL he thinks is best as I can already guess what his automatic answer would be.
Aug 7, 2009 8:34 pm

You’ll be fine with any of the big 4.  I don’t know what will perform the best.  I would rather have a product that does not have direct recognition. 

  I wouldn't recommend WL to you since I know nothing about you.  My recommendation would be to buy as much convertible term as you can get and to not wait until you get married.  If you are sleeping with your woman, you should assume that she is pregnant today.   As for the VUL idea, let me rip that to shreads.  Actually, you should rip that to shreads.  Take a look at the prospectus and an actual contract.    You need to dig through both because the prospectus will conveniently not include the inflated insurance charges.    What you will find is that you have grossly overpriced insurance combined with grossly overpriced investments combined with the fact if the policy ever lapses all gains are income and not capital gains.   For instance, every dollar that goes into the policy is subject to a 6.95% sales charge with no break points.  Have you ever had a client make an investment that charged that type of sales charge?   My experience has been that people who sell VUL policies don't understand the expenses.
Aug 8, 2009 3:31 am

30 Day War:  Week 1 Recap

Repeat Contacts: 120
New Contacts: 27 (need 6 contacts sat.)
New Accounts: 3
Appointments next week: 5

It was a good week but not great - fell a bit short on most metrics.  However from the activity side it was an improvement.  I continue to struggle in getting as many new contacts as I’d like but made progress this week over prior weeks. Of the new contacts I made I feel at least 4 will do business with me in the near future and have money to invest now. Setting goals for the month helped my focus quite a bit and I plan to put up even stronger numbers next week. Also got alot of lingering administrative crap out of the way, I am awful at keeping up with that crap. 

On track to do 7.5k gross for the month if the ACATs go smoothly - should pick up additional business along the way to help increase this.  I know that sucks for you vets.

Aug 8, 2009 2:38 pm

$7.5 gross(if you end up averaging that) isn’t as terrible as you think(i mean it is at a wire, but not in your first year)… There are guys at my b/d who can’t do that…

Aug 8, 2009 5:27 pm

I’ve got a number of checks on the way and have discussed with the clients how we’ll invest those funds when they get here.  Also have a few insurance policies from the previous month that will hit this month. They should total 7.5k gross, already a third of the way there.

I’m not even thinking about August sales numbers now - the month is over, everything I’m doing appointments wise is for September + October.  If I pick up some bond or stock sales, great, it will push me higher.  Anything in mutual funds outside of what I know is coming will go into C shares or advisory solutions.

Trying to use this “war” to put more into my pipeline make it more sustainable. Not sure if this is the right way to make it in this business so any feedback is appreciated.

Aug 8, 2009 6:00 pm

You really seem to be annuitizing your business. What family do you favor in C shares and account in Advisory Solutions? How do you pitch it to clients? Just the easier sale of low fees? Wasn’t it you that told us you kept swiping accounts from another guy at ML or something that put all his clients in C shares? Just wondering what the pros and cons are as I too want to build my business this way.

Aug 8, 2009 6:35 pm

[quote=fa09]You really seem to be annuitizing your business. What family do you favor in C shares and account in Advisory Solutions? How do you pitch it to clients? Just the easier sale of low fees? Wasn’t it you that told us you kept swiping accounts from another guy at ML or something that put all his clients in C shares? Just wondering what the pros and cons are as I too want to build my business this way.[/quote]

My goal year one is to have $1000 per month NET in annuitized business monthly starting month 13. With C shares I don’t favor a family.  I’ve created 5 models of C shares tried to choose the best funds I can find.  With A shares I’ve been using Franklin and like their products.  Please understand I’m new though and will probably adjust my process 100000 times in the next year so it’s a bit pointless to share yet.  Just know how to create trust and sell is all - my “investment experience” is limited so I keep things simple and try to do what is right.

One example - Guy has a 42k rollover and my month is plugging away okay I’m much more likely to push him into C shares knowing when he pops 50k I can move him into AS. I sell the C shares based on being flexible with no upfront sales charge.  – If I was not having a good month it would be super hard to do this though, I don’t want to starve.


Aug 9, 2009 1:28 am

This has been a very interesting read. Google is my friend as I do not know most of the terms and abbreviations that you guys throw around, but it definitely has gotten my attention, and I can’t wait to find out if I’ll end up working in this field. Thanks, everyone.

Aug 9, 2009 11:47 pm

[quote=voltmoie]





[quote=fa09]You really seem to be annuitizing your business. What family do you favor in C shares and account in Advisory Solutions? How do you pitch it to clients? Just the easier sale of low fees? Wasn’t it you that told us you kept swiping accounts from another guy at ML or something that put all his clients in C shares? Just wondering what the pros and cons are as I too want to build my business this way.[/quote]My goal year one is to have $1000 per month NET in annuitized business monthly starting month 13. With C shares I don’t favor a family. I’ve created 5 models of C shares tried to choose the best funds I can find. With A shares I’ve been using Franklin and like their products. Please understand I’m new though and will probably adjust my process 100000 times in the next year so it’s a bit pointless to share yet. Just know how to create trust and sell is all - my “investment experience” is limited so I keep things simple and try to do what is right. One example - Guy has a 42k rollover and my month is plugging away okay I’m much more likely to push him into C shares knowing when he pops 50k I can move him into AS. I sell the C shares based on being flexible with no upfront sales charge. – If I was not having a good month it would be super hard to do this though, I don’t want to starve.[/quote]



This is why I thought it was ingenious to go work for Jones when they came out with advisory solutions. You have that salary for a year - I would have been putting EVERYBODY into advisory solutions (if they met the minimum).

Aug 14, 2009 4:14 am

That’s been my plan Moraen - as long as I lock up the Milestone bonus and new account bonus Advisory Solutions is golden.

Aug 24, 2009 3:32 am

Volt- 30 days almost up. Where are you at? How is the last week looking? Are you counting til the 28th or 31st? Good luck and kick some ass these last couple days! Stay off the booze and finish strong!!

Aug 24, 2009 3:43 am

[quote=DeBolt]Volt- 30 days almost up. Where are you at? How is the last week looking? Are you counting til the 28th or 31st? Good luck and kick some ass these last couple days! Stay off the booze and finish strong!![/quote]

Had a good week last week but don’t have my numbers in front of me.  Going to the 31st but won’t be able to work this Saturday … fantasy football draft.  I’ll post a recap of my month next weekend. 

I will say this, having a purpose and working towards its every day in bite sized chunks has helped me alot. My September could be very large if some things fall into place.

Aug 24, 2009 1:55 pm

[quote=anonymous][quote=voltmoie][quote=anonymous]This is something that I have done when a client says that they have enough insurance when I know that they don’t.

  Ex. John makes $100,000 and has $500,000 of life insurance and thinks that his family would be just fine on that amount of money.     Me: "John, if I gave you $500,000 and in exchange you could never earn another dime would you accept the money?" John: "No.  It's not enough.  I'll run out of money."   More often, I'll just run them through a little exercise. Me: "Ok, you have $500,000 and you think that will be enough.  It might be, but let's take a look to be sure.   Since this money needs to last, Sally will need to invest it.  What sort of rate of return do you think that she'll get?" (They'll either give a low number or if they give something high, I'll explain how they can really only safely withdraw about 4% of the money.) John: "Maybe 3-4%" Me: "Let's look at 4%.  $500,000/ 4%/12 months = $1,666/month.  Would your family live in the way that you would like with $1,666/month. John: "No way" Me: "Fortunately, it shouldn't be very expensive to get the insurance coverage that you need." John: "ok"[/quote]   Does that extra insurance that they'll probably never use cover them when they get to retirement and have not saved enough to travel to see those 2-3 kids and their grandchildren? j/k   I think insurance guys will always look at the risk and investment guys will always look at the reward.  I try to be both but probably under insure most people in most insurance guys minds. I go 10x take home pay and invest the rest.  Perhaps my perspective will change when I have some clients die.[/quote]   This kind of anti-insurance argument is so very silly.  If the client in the above example is 30 and we increase his insurance from $500,000 to $1,500,000 by having him purchase a 10 year level $1,000,000 term policy, we have raised his insurance premium by $20/month.   Is $20/month going to stop him from traveling and doing other things when he's older?  Of course not.  In fact, he's not going to invest less simply because he has added $20 more to his monthly expenses.   Why are you having people purchase 10x their take home pay?  Do your job and find out what your client wants to accomplish.  Most want their families to maintain their standard of living.   6x take home pay typically won't do this.    Ex. John is 30 and is making $100,000.  He is married with 2 young kids.  He takes home $60,000 and is contributing $6000 to his 401(k) and his employer is putting away $3,000.    You have him buy a $600,000 20 year term policy for $270.  If he dies today, his wife gets $600,000.  Let's assume that John blows $1,000/month on himself.   That would put the families need at $4,000/month instead of $5,000, but then they have added health insurance costs and $750/month is no longer being put away pre-tax for retirement.   Anyway, how is $600,000 going to be enough to give the family $60,000 of after tax money?   Instead of coming up with arguments of why this might be enough, first look at what would happen if they bought 10x gross income instead of 10x net.  They would buy $1,000,000 of coverage.  The premium would be $400 instead of $270.   Why take the chance for a lousy $11/month difference.   It's not as if because the insurance is $11/month more expensive, your client is going to change his roth contribution from $5000 down to $4870.  Instead what will happen is that it will get eaten up in his budget.  At the end of the year, his checking account balance will be $7,354.19 instead of $7,484.19.   Trying to save a few dollars on insurance premiums is penny wise and pound foolish.  [/quote]   I met with a young doctor that moved to town. Base salary 250K, early 30's, wife and no kids. We talked about a base level of LI as they had none.....We did 1,000,000 term for him and 500K of UL on him and 500K of term on the wife just to get them started. Very inexpensive way to have base level of protection. The whole deal was 4600 gross just from life insurance......
Aug 24, 2009 2:26 pm

Not a bad day’s work.  AND got them something they NEED.

Aug 24, 2009 2:36 pm

That whole area of planning is SO overlooked. You can average 1k-2K monthly on just that stuff if you just pay attention. It does not depend on the market as a matter of fact it works inversely… I have 6 more term policies in the works for next month, probably 2K total.

Aug 29, 2009 7:35 pm

When do we get an update?

Aug 31, 2009 12:01 am

THE 30 DAY WAR:

577 Contacts
121 New Contacts
12 New Accounts
$5500 gross

Had a terrible last week that killed me contact wise.  Monday is a new week.  Gross fell a bit short because some transfers fell into next month and an issue with an insurance policy.  All metrics except gross and new accounts were up over last month - they were flat.  September should be large by my standards. 

Aug 31, 2009 12:52 am
voltmoie:

My goal is to be the FA Windy said he was, at least for 30 days.

You Lose!   <----$14,500 Gross for August 
        Qualified for the 1st Div Trip, with a month left.   You tried soooo hard!! Better luck next time! lol   Check out what I got to start off my Sept            -$8,000 Gross         -$1.7 M Cash transfer that will gross $40,000         -$50,000 cash value policy (I think we get 70%)   Whats that, like $83,000 gross rollin in?   I'll have Seg 3 numbers, first month out from Seg 2. Are you there yet? Do we have any of those runner-up ribbons? Sorry, couldn't help myself.  
Aug 31, 2009 1:51 am
Ronnie Dobbs:

[quote=voltmoie] My goal is to be the FA Windy said he was, at least for 30 days.

You Lose!   <----$14,500 Gross for August 
        Qualified for the 1st Div Trip, with a month left.   You tried soooo hard!! Better luck next time! lol   Check out what I got to start off my Sept            -$8,000 Gross         -$1.7 M Cash transfer that will gross $40,000         -$50,000 cash value policy (I think we get 70%)   Whats that, like $83,000 gross rollin in?   I'll have Seg 3 numbers, first month out from Seg 2. Are you there yet? Do we have any of those runner-up ribbons? Sorry, couldn't help myself.   [/quote]

We've seen your real numbers. Hope you are doing great.
Aug 31, 2009 1:55 am

Volt how much did u put in advisory this month? What are you running YTD? Still on track with ur goals for year 1?

Aug 31, 2009 1:58 am

[quote=voltmoie]

We’ve seen your real numbers. Hope you are doing great.[/quote]



Obviously not, if you think any of that is untrue.

Aug 31, 2009 1:58 am

[quote=fa09]Volt how much did u put in advisory this month? What are you running YTD? Still on track with ur goals for year 1?[/quote]

160k advisory solutions
60k C Shares

On track to hit my targets and exceed them if one deal I’m working on pops.

Aug 31, 2009 2:02 am

Windy, I don’t care how you are doing.  Hope it’s great but you have proven yourself time and time again to be a liar.  Should we all of a sudden think you are telling the truth? If you are, awesome.

I’m not segment or gross obsessed.  Run your business as you see fit, I’ll do the same. See you in Hawaii.

Aug 31, 2009 2:06 am

No one ever once proved I was a liar, because i never once did. Believe what you may.



It’s all in good fun. I’m glad to know you’re following me on social sites though. That’s creepy.



<—Not a big advisory fan yet. I haven’t heard anything about Advisory, other than how it benefits the FA by annuitizing their business. In all the meetings and explanations over Advisory, i’ve yet to be told how it’s REALLY benefiting the client. If someone ever convinces me, i’ll move stuff that direction, but I just have a hard time justifying the 1% fee every year. When we hit another rough spot, that 1% fee will start to be questioned.

Aug 31, 2009 2:10 am
Ronnie Dobbs:

<—Not a big advisory fan yet. I haven’t heard anything about Advisory, other than how it benefits the FA by annuitizing their business. In all the meetings and explanations over Advisory, i’ve yet to be told how it’s REALLY benefiting the client. If someone ever convinces me, i’ll move stuff that direction, but I just have a hard time justifying the 1% fee every year. When we hit another rough spot, that 1% fee will start to be questioned.

  If you can't justify charging 1% to your clients, when 80% of the rest of the industry is charging at least 50% more than that, you are in for a long, long career.
Aug 31, 2009 2:12 am
3rdyrp2:

[quote=Ronnie Dobbs]<—Not a big advisory fan yet. I haven’t heard anything about Advisory, other than how it benefits the FA by annuitizing their business. In all the meetings and explanations over Advisory, i’ve yet to be told how it’s REALLY benefiting the client. If someone ever convinces me, i’ll move stuff that direction, but I just have a hard time justifying the 1% fee every year. When we hit another rough spot, that 1% fee will start to be questioned.



If you can’t justify charging 1% to your clients, when 80% of the rest of the industry is charging at least 50% more than that, you are in for a long, long career.[/quote]



It’s not justifying it to my clients. It’s justifying it to myself that it’s what is best for them. I haven’t heard anything except, “You get 1.35% every year!!”. That to me doesn’t help them and until i can get a really good explanation on it, I just choose to not use it…
Aug 31, 2009 2:15 am

Remember Windy, I’m six months behind you without an office.  Hard to compare our numbers today but I saw them back in March when you were at my point.

HUGE fan of AS – A shares are a fraud in my opinion.

Aug 31, 2009 2:22 am

[quote=voltmoie] Remember Windy, I’m six months behind you without an office. Hard to compare our numbers today but I saw them back in March when you were at my point.HUGE fan of AS – A shares are a fraud in my opinion.

[/quote]



Not sure how you are 6 months behind me, i have only worked 8 months from my CSD. As far as the office, someone left and i took theirs. It wasn’t a huge office and most of the clients hated the other FA. Not to mention I was already posting those numbers before the office. I moved in this month, so our circumstances are no different because all the money made has come from prospects i already had. Not sure what your talking about when it comes to March, my screen says almost $11,000 gross that month. You got a long way to go.

Aug 31, 2009 2:27 am

We’ve all seen the screen shot but keep blowing smoke - if you say it enough someone might buy it.

Correct me if I’m wrong, you had a legacy office?  I think that gives anyone a slight edge over a true new/new.  If there were an office close enough to me I’d jump on it.

Aug 31, 2009 2:36 am

Buddy I wish I could show you my screen. You’d sh*t your pants and apologize, just saying. You saw a screen shot mid month of march that was dated for Feb. None of it was anywhere near accurate, when you saw it. Thats like me calling you a liar cause you said you grossed 10K this month, but i saw a screen for 2 months ago that wasn’t even updated.



As far as the legacy. I got it 2 months in. I got tired of being at home I got off my ass/couch and went out and found one. I went and introduced myself to every FA anywhere close and didn’t stop until I got one. No one offered me jack. The office was the same thing. I busted my ass working , then made sure our RL leader knew every 2 weeks what i was grossing and that i was beating most of the Seg 3 FA’s. I deserved the office and I made sure he knew that. When it came open, who do you think he called first? I wasn’t handed anything. So as far as i’m concerned, our situations are no different. I just might be a bit more aggressive for what I want.

Aug 31, 2009 2:41 am

You live in OKC … I live in a county of 17,000.   Do the math.

No one is worried about your numbers. Do they make you feel better to post?  Just be part of the community and post.  We all love you, Windy.

Aug 31, 2009 2:45 am

[quote=voltmoie] You live in OKC … I live in a county of 17,000. Do the math.No one is worried about your numbers? Do they make you feel better to post? Just be part of the community and post. We all love you, Windy.

[/quote]



Theres the difference in you and I. You’re justifying why you can’t. I see 17,000 people that aren’t MY clients. Only you can change your circumstances. Less whine…



It gives me a boost when other FA’s tell me they beat me. Motivates me to do better.



Aug 31, 2009 2:49 am

This thread was not a challenge about you moron, it was a personal challenge against myself.

You really have a reading problem.  I was referring to the population of my county as a reason for lack of legacy and “open branch” options.  Not production issues.  I’m 300%+ of the goal EDJ sets and I’m popping people into AS and C shares every chance I get - I’m okay.  Windy, I’m done responding to you on this thread.  Glad you are so great and awesome but you can’t read so it makes having a discussion pointless.

Aug 31, 2009 2:52 am

lol. For the record, I know it wasn’t about me. You did however say you were going to do as well as me. I really just wanted to give you sht for being such an asshole half the time and make sure you knew that i whooped your ass. Just saying…



I do find it interesting how people get butthurt when you give them sh
t on their numbers here. The local FA’s talk trash to each other all the time about their numbers in my town, because it motivates them. It’s a good thing.

Aug 31, 2009 3:00 am

Serious question: What do you guys wear door knocking?

Aug 31, 2009 3:00 am

[quote=franklin21] Serious question: What do you guys wear door knocking?

[/quote]



Seriously?

Aug 31, 2009 3:00 am

Clothes usually

Aug 31, 2009 3:05 am

HAHA, I mean suits, dress slacks, etc. 

Aug 31, 2009 3:06 am

Reason I ask is out of the four FA’s offices I’ve been to, no two have worn the same thing. 

Aug 31, 2009 3:09 am

I hardly ever wear a tie anyway, so i’m the wrong person to ask. I’ve had clients tell me they like that I don’t. It depends what part of the country you’re in. In the southern part of the country, we can get by without wearing a suit. Most of the top producers don’t either. In fact alot of them wear jeans and a polo to work. If you were in New York, LA, or Chicago, that’s probably a bad idea.

Aug 31, 2009 3:11 am

Wear a suit, be a professional. Ask your field trainer or a young hot shot in your region (like windy).

Sep 1, 2009 10:24 pm

[quote=Ronnie Dobbs]You Lose!

  <----$14,500 Gross for August 
        Qualified for the 1st Div Trip, with a month left.   You tried soooo hard!! Better luck next time! lol   Check out what I got to start off my Sept            -$8,000 Gross         -$1.7 M Cash transfer that will gross $40,000         -$50,000 cash value policy (I think we get 70%)   Whats that, like $83,000 gross rollin in?   I'll have Seg 3 numbers, first month out from Seg 2. Are you there yet? Do we have any of those runner-up ribbons? Sorry, couldn't help myself.[/quote]   Wait, wait, wait...Is it a $50,000 policy?  Or a $50,000 1035 exchange into a new policy?  Or is the client putting in $50,000 per year into the policy?  If the answer is yes to any of those, you are not getting 70% of the $50,000. 
Sep 1, 2009 10:27 pm

That’s right, isn’t it 70% of FCP?

Sep 1, 2009 10:34 pm

I don’t know Jones’ payout on perm. policies, but its a percentage of 1st yr “target” premium.  Not necessarily actual premium.

Sep 1, 2009 10:56 pm

[quote=Moraen]That’s right, isn’t it 70% of FCP?[/quote]

Correct, I’m working one up now and I thought I was going to get RICH!!! My payout will be much smaller than I expected.  Oh well.