2 Years into Jones
I am about to hit my 2 year mark with E/Jones. I believe I signed a 3 year commitment. How easy is it to transition to another house, preferedly independent? What has been your experiences getting away from Jones? They are OK as a company, but the “door-knocking” marketing plan is terribly outdated. Product mix is shoddy. Pay stinks. I would appreciate some insight.
I am sure if you send any of us a list of your clients and their accounts we can tell you how easy it will be to transition them!!
Seriously you have a year to get ready. We recently hired a Jones guy two years in. He was convinced that EJ would not bother him. Well they did. He is now out of the industry. So take some time and read all the old posts in this forum. Tons of great info!!I have considered the Indy route too. It’s not worth it to do it before you are past your 3 year anniversary. Like DeBolt said, get yourself geared up with clients that are loyal to you, not the firm, that way when you leave you have an easier transition.
And if you don't like doorknocking, don't. Do something else. Most people that are successful in this profession seem to do just fine having never knocked on a door, we don't need to be any different.Here I go defending jones again... So the real story is either A. You want more money or B. Your production isn't what they want. Everyone knows what jones does, basic product mix, doorknocking marketing(it does work by the way and is going to be the new thing with DNC and everyone calling the same businesses). So you should have gone somewhere else. Fact is you signed a 3 year deal($75K.. they will probably settle but not for less than $25K or so, unless you get fired). So come up with the cash or better yet, wait another year, and customize your business to move (hold stuff at fund company, start selling you over jones,). And last ROOGLEI am about to hit my 2 year mark with E/Jones. I believe I signed a 3 year commitment. How easy is it to transition to another house, preferedly independent? What has been your experiences getting away from Jones? They are OK as a company, but the “door-knocking” marketing plan is terribly outdated. Product mix is shoddy. Pay stinks. I would appreciate some insight.
Here I go defending jones again... So the real story is either A. You want more money or B. Your production isn't what they want. Everyone knows what jones does, basic product mix, doorknocking marketing(it does work by the way and is going to be the new thing with DNC and everyone calling the same businesses). So you should have gone somewhere else. Fact is you signed a 3 year deal($75K.. they will probably settle but not for less than $25K or so, unless you get fired). So come up with the cash or better yet, wait another year, and customize your business to move (hold stuff at fund company, start selling you over jones,). And last ROOGLE[/quote] and more than anything make sure that you get letters from transitioned clients that state that Jones defamed you (which they will - the home office AND the transition rep), pass them onto your attorney (you will need to hire one at this point if your new firm does not already provide you with one), and that $75k will get reduced to a laughable amount. we know from experience.[quote=52new]I am about to hit my 2 year mark with E/Jones. I believe I signed a 3 year commitment. How easy is it to transition to another house, preferedly independent? What has been your experiences getting away from Jones? They are OK as a company, but the “door-knocking” marketing plan is terribly outdated. Product mix is shoddy. Pay stinks. I would appreciate some insight.
I don’t understand the whole “they make me doorknock and this is ridiculous” argument. THEY DON’T CARE HOW YOU GET YOUR CLIENTS! So, however you plan on getting your clients somewhere else, just start doing it now!! I’m not saying don’t leave Jones, but for crying out loud, don’t blame them for not being able to get clients. My point is, if you have a better idea, then go implement it. I have not doorknocked since about my first 6 months, and I am doing just fine.
I agree with the whole product thing. If their managed money programs were a little more expansive, all would be well. But they're not. So be it.Thanks for the input. I don’t intend to leave before 3 years and am making transition plans now. Keep the good info coming. As far as door-knocking, I consider it a terrible waste of time and energy. Particularly in an urban area. I would never trust my money to someone who came door to door. It puts us in a weak position. I’m just suprised that Jones doesn’t have something else to offer. And I’m really not interested in hearing from another person in the training dept that never even had a license. The local Jones FA’s just want me to join their prayer group.
[quote=B24]I don’t understand the whole “they make me doorknock and this is ridiculous” argument. THEY DON’T CARE HOW YOU GET YOUR CLIENTS! So, however you plan on getting your clients somewhere else, just start doing it now!! I’m not saying don’t leave Jones, but for crying out loud, don’t blame them for not being able to get clients. My point is, if you have a better idea, then go implement it. I have not doorknocked since about my first 6 months, and I am doing just fine.
I agree with the whole product thing. If their managed money programs were a little more expansive, all would be well. But they're not. So be it.[/quote] Agreed. I can't stand people on this forum who work at jones who say oh well, this doesn't work and this sucks. You knew what you were getting when you signed up.(My kids even know you doorknock at EDJ). I would say 75% of people don't knock after first 6 months anyway.And those who continue to do so are either nuts or enjoy doing it.There is no way to know before hand whether or not Jones will come after you. If you have 25k or more in the bank I would say jump now. You can probably settle for less than 10k. It is also possible that they may not come after you at all. If you are lighting it up and bringing in tons of assets then going indy now is your best bet because you will make that money back over the next year.I am about to hit my 2 year mark with E/Jones. I believe I signed a 3 year commitment. How easy is it to transition to another house, preferedly independent? What has been your experiences getting away from Jones? They are OK as a company, but the “door-knocking” marketing plan is terribly outdated. Product mix is shoddy. Pay stinks. I would appreciate some insight.
If you want doorknocking advice, just ask.
Dude or Dudette, Send me a PM and I will help you with some ideas. NogginI am about to hit my 2 year mark with E/Jones. I believe I signed a 3 year commitment. How easy is it to transition to another house, preferedly independent? What has been your experiences getting away from Jones? They are OK as a company, but the “door-knocking” marketing plan is terribly outdated. Product mix is shoddy. Pay stinks. I would appreciate some insight.
Neither would I ...but about 50 clients (some darn good ones) of mine feel differently. Regardless (or is it Irregardless ), it does work...I suppose you would trust someone better that picked your name out of the phonebook or off a list and cold called you. Quite honestly, you sound like a troll who is just posting with a new name to bash Jones as an insider...puhhhhleeasssee....we've seen it all before! As several mentioned about...I only knocked for 5-7 months...I didn't love it but as a new Broker it got me a running start and a place to practice speaking to people about what I do. Not to mention, after several years, some of those small accounts with $50 DCA turned into high 6 low 7 figure accounts....not too shabby...I do feel that later in one's career it isn't the most productive prospecting technique, but a good way to break into the business if you have the stones!Thanks for the input. I don’t intend to leave before 3 years and am making transition plans now. Keep the good info coming. As far as door-knocking, I consider it a terrible waste of time and energy. Particularly in an urban area. I would never trust my money to someone who came door to door. It puts us in a weak position. I’m just suprised that Jones doesn’t have something else to offer. And I’m really not interested in hearing from another person in the training dept that never even had a license. The local Jones FA’s just want me to join their prayer group.
I doorknocked for a year. My biggest client came from it.. Yes it does suck and is a waste of time but it works. Now I dial because I find it easier to manage my book than doorknocking and the time it takes. I alienated everyone in my region, screw em they don't pay me.Thanks for the input. I don’t intend to leave before 3 years and am making transition plans now. Keep the good info coming. As far as door-knocking, I consider it a terrible waste of time and energy. Particularly in an urban area. I would never trust my money to someone who came door to door. It puts us in a weak position. I’m just suprised that Jones doesn’t have something else to offer. And I’m really not interested in hearing from another person in the training dept that never even had a license. The local Jones FA’s just want me to join their prayer group.
I guess if I were a 20 something with more time and energy than common sense and creativity, door knocking would be fine. I am not here to bash Jones. I am just not very impressed with the company or most of the advisors I have met. Ted had a great marketing plan. But it was developed back in the 60’s for the rural midwest and no competitors. He was against going into urban areas. What bothers me is that the GP’s were taught that system and can’t seem to come up with anything new. The failure of the British business shows how provincial the company is. Sorry if this hurts your feelings. I’ve been around a while and I will do what’s best for me.
What the hell does this have to do with you and your production ? Are you reading what everyone else is saying ? YOU DONT HAVE TO DOOR KNOCK. If you have other reasons to leave like payout then fine, but your reasons dont make sense.I guess if I were a 20 something with more time and energy than common sense and creativity, door knocking would be fine. I am not here to bash Jones. I am just not very impressed with the company or most of the advisors I have met. Ted had a great marketing plan. But it was developed back in the 60’s for the rural midwest and no competitors. He was against going into urban areas. What bothers me is that the GP’s were taught that system and can’t seem to come up with anything new. The failure of the British business shows how provincial the company is. Sorry if this hurts your feelings. I’ve been around a while and I will do what’s best for me.
Read the posts, jack. What I’m asking is how easy is it to transfer out, and what are the repercussions. Don’t bother to reply, if I wanted to be bitched at, I’d visit my mother-in-law.
I guess if I were a 20 something with more time and energy than common sense and creativity, door knocking would be fine. I am not here to bash Jones. I am just not very impressed with the company or most of the advisors I have met. Ted had a great marketing plan. But it was developed back in the 60’s for the rural midwest and no competitors. He was against going into urban areas. What bothers me is that the GP’s were taught that system and can’t seem to come up with anything new. The failure of the British business shows how provincial the company is. Sorry if this hurts your feelings. I’ve been around a while and I will do what’s best for me.
Seriously. Ron is right.
This may be a bit presumptuous, but if you can't think of other ways to prospect after two years, perhaps you are not cut out for the business, despite being around for a while. I don't know you, so that's not a concrete judgement, but you might want to think about that.
I spent three years at Jones, did NOT like doorknocking and refused to do it. Left because my investment and business philosophy did not mesh.
And your posts are also arguing the issues of Jones.
If you want to leave Jones, just leave. I know guys who left with one year left. They are fine. If you are a big producer and have a bunch of assets, they will come after you, but will settle more than likely.
The few firms I’ve talked to all were going to buy out my training costs. Have you talked to the new prospective firm(s)?
If you don't want to be bitched at don't make stupid comments. You did not simply ask how easy it is to transfer out. You threw in your expansive 2 years of experience. That makes you a judge of good products and proper ways to prospect. You are not impressed with Jones brokers? Big statement covering 10,000+ Advisors coming from a 2 year old. Quit now and save my Partnership returns. PS. The doorknocking excuse is old and everyone see through it.Read the posts, jack. What I’m asking is how easy is it to transfer out, and what are the repercussions. Don’t bother to reply, if I wanted to be bitched at, I’d visit my mother-in-law.
[quote=52new]Read the posts, jack. What I’m asking is how easy is it to transfer out, and what are the repercussions. Don’t bother to reply, if I wanted to be bitched at, I’d visit my mother-in-law.
If you don’t want to be bitched at don’t make stupid comments. You did not simply ask how easy it is to transfer out. You threw in your expansive 2 years of experience. That makes you a judge of good products and proper ways to prospect. You are not impressed with Jones brokers? Big statement covering 10,000+ Advisors coming from a 2 year old. Quit now and save my Partnership returns.
PS. The doorknocking excuse is old and everyone see through it.[/quote]
ytrewq - welcome back!
always great posts!
2 years with Jones. 30 in another industry. It taught me to recognize bullsh-t when I see it. Keep drinking the kool-ade. Best of luck at Jones. BTW, it’s easy to get a good statistical sample in only two years. And it’s just not impressive here. You have helped prove my point.
Partnership returns? Tell me, how is that not a ponzi scheme?
Yeah! We all don’t want to be bitched at either…I used to think no one whines on this forum more than me, but you’ve really taken the prize! Two f***ing years and you just realized you don’t like door-knocking!!!
Who is making you door knock?
Insight? I’ll try …
I believe I signed a three year contract = I haven’t even begun to do the homework, and I want you to help me.
Pay sucks = I’m not productive at my job, and I want you to help me.
Door knocking doesn’t work here = I haven’t any better ideas, but I don’t like this one. Please help me find a better one.
Product mix sucks = I can’t sell what I have, I need you to help me find something else I can’t sell.
Either produce or don’t, but don’t come here and bash the firm that is continuing to support you while you are underperforming. It really speaks volumes about your character.
Insight? I’ll try …
I believe I signed a three year contract = I haven’t even begun to do the homework, and I want you to help me.
Pay sucks = I’m not productive at my job, and I want you to help me.
Door knocking doesn’t work here = I haven’t any better ideas, but I don’t like this one. Please help me find a better one.
Product mix sucks = I can’t sell what I have, I need you to help me find something else I can’t sell.
Either produce or don’t, but don’t come here and bash the firm that is continuing to support you while you are underperforming. It really speaks volumes about your character.
You are in your 50's and just entering this field. Brutal !Playing in traffic is your best move from here forward.2 years with Jones. 30 in another industry. It taught me to recognize bullsh-t when I see it. Keep drinking the kool-ade. Best of luck at Jones. BTW, it’s easy to get a good statistical sample in only two years. And it’s just not impressive here. You have helped prove my point.
Partnership returns? Tell me, how is that not a ponzi scheme?
How IS it a ponzi scheme? The owners make more money than non-owners by providing the vehicle for employees to make money.
A ponzi scheme involves paying off others with money from new patsies.
[quote=52new]2 years with Jones. 30 in another industry. It taught me to recognize bullsh-t when I see it. Keep drinking the kool-ade. Best of luck at Jones. BTW, it’s easy to get a good statistical sample in only two years. And it’s just not impressive here. You have helped prove my point.
You are in your 50’s and just entering this field. Brutal !Playing in traffic is your best move from here forward.[/quote]
[quote=Ron 14]
Yeah, I can relate. Started at age 50 myself. Imagine some middle-aged idiot, knocking on your door in a snow storm talking crap about stocks while the world is crashing around you.
I just didn’t have enough self-respect to stop.
You are an idiot.. all firms use the same prospecting methods since the 60's... Calls/Doorknocking... Nothing has changed, there is no new way. And if you have been around a while then you look even dumber complaining about Jones because you should have known their methods.I guess if I were a 20 something with more time and energy than common sense and creativity, door knocking would be fine. I am not here to bash Jones. I am just not very impressed with the company or most of the advisors I have met. Ted had a great marketing plan. But it was developed back in the 60’s for the rural midwest and no competitors. He was against going into urban areas. What bothers me is that the GP’s were taught that system and can’t seem to come up with anything new. The failure of the British business shows how provincial the company is. Sorry if this hurts your feelings. I’ve been around a while and I will do what’s best for me.
It does work by the way... Van Pearcy is probably a top 10 producer at RJ.. guess where he spent 7-10yrs... You aren't hurting feelings, no one cares about Jones here... By the way the financial services landscape in the UK is much different than here in a lot of aspects. "F&cking Dumb People Annoy Me"
It's the same way law firms and CPA firms and medical practices work. The partners get rich off the worker bees. It's as old as Jesus himself. Didn't you say you've been around 30 years? I worked in real estate finance for over a decade before Jones. I was a corporate controller. Virtually all of our deals were structured as partnerships. I was involved in several hundred Real Estate partnerships over the years. Partners invested the capital. Partners earned returns. Partners demanded maximum returns for their invested capital. When partners did not receive acceptable returns, they would replace management, or exert extreme pressure on management. Managament would then minimize expenses as much as possible. If you don't like capitalism, move to Canada with our President.Partnership returns? Tell me, how is that not a ponzi scheme?
You’re wasting your time B - He’s smart enough to realize now that he’s stupid. He won’t post again under that name.
Right. UK is different than USA. So Jones failure in the UK indicates an inability to change with changing or different circumstances. Point taken, point made.
Right. UK is different than USA. So Jones failure in the UK indicates an inability to change with changing or different circumstances. Point taken, point made.
YOU ARE SO RIGHT!!!
Ponzi scheme, an unsustainable investment. The only way to maintain the Jones partnership system is to keep growing and increase productivity per FA. The farther you are down the partnership ladder, the less likely you will ever see financial benefits from the scheme. At some point you saturate the market. Long before that, new FA’s will read the writing on the wall and split.
Ponzi scheme, an unsustainable investment. The only way to maintain the Jones partnership system is to keep growing and increase productivity per FA. The farther you are down the partnership ladder, the less likely you will ever see financial benefits from the scheme. At some point you saturate the market. Long before that, new FA’s will read the writing on the wall and split.
Give me a T
Give me a R
Give me a O
Give me a L
Give me a L
You have to find it ironic that you are so stupid, that people who hate jones are even against you…
door knocking... humn, may work in the midwest, not so much in nj. I wouldnt take them seriously. In any case, it works.... why? when you are forced to see so many people in person, you are bound to get plenty of clients.
Now, no matter where you are working, if you are bringing on 12 mil a year.... they will not care how you get your clients, unless it is illegal. If you are bringing in the relationships, any firm will be happy to have you.
If you are not producing.... any firm will have you do their tried and true methods. deal with it. dont like it.... either leave, or start producing your way.
52new,
You probably need to quit now. At 2 years in the biz you should have made around 30k doorknocks or coldcalls by now. I'm guessing you haven't made any. Doorknocking works great in the city, I did it in a large metro area for 2 1/2 years and built a nice pipeline. I love all the blame that goes around, no matter what firm a person works for. In reality, every time that person needs to look in a mirror.[quote=rankstocks]52new,
You probably need to quit now. At 2 years in the biz you should have made around 30k doorknocks or coldcalls by now. I'm guessing you haven't made any. Doorknocking works great in the city, I did it in a large metro area for 2 1/2 years and built a nice pipeline. I love all the blame that goes around, no matter what firm a person works for. In reality, every time that person needs to look in a mirror.[/quote]Damn, you ARE stupid!Ponzi scheme, an unsustainable investment. The only way to maintain the Jones partnership system is to keep growing and increase productivity per FA. The farther you are down the partnership ladder, the less likely you will ever see financial benefits from the scheme. At some point you saturate the market. Long before that, new FA’s will read the writing on the wall and split.
[quote=52new]Ponzi scheme, an unsustainable investment. The only way to maintain the Jones partnership system is to keep growing and increase productivity per FA. The farther you are down the partnership ladder, the less likely you will ever see financial benefits from the scheme. At some point you saturate the market. Long before that, new FA’s will read the writing on the wall and split. [/quote]
Say what?
Tell that to law and accountant partnerships that have been around for over a century.
You are badly in need of finance and economics classes.
Wow. Just… Wow!
If you don't want to be bitched at don't make stupid comments. You did not simply ask how easy it is to transfer out. You threw in your expansive 2 years of experience. That makes you a judge of good products and proper ways to prospect. You are not impressed with Jones brokers? Big statement covering 10,000+ Advisors coming from a 2 year old. Quit now and save my Partnership returns. PS. The doorknocking excuse is old and everyone see through it.[/quote] Hey, that's my line. I'm glad you said it before me. 52 - doorknocking in a metro area doesn't work, huh? Then, I should stop? Cause I'm in a metro market (metro STL no less, talk about saturation) and EVERY TIME I get my butt out of my comfortable chair and go ring some doorbells, I get new clients. EVERY TIME. I think metro areas are perfect for doorknocking. It's just more convenient. See, there are 17,000 households in just my zip code alone. There are three similar zip codes within a 15 minute drive of my office. That's almost 50,000 households that I could visit. Not to mention the hundreds of businesses that there are within a few minutes of my office. The difference between me doorknocking and 10 other advisors cold calling is that I get to look them in the eye first and qualify them as good prospects or not from the get go. If I weren't in a metro area, in order to find 50,000 households I'd have to run all over the county. And I'm just simply too lazy to do that. Perhaps you have that same problem. Here are some other ideas for you if you don't want to doorknock: Seminars - Jones will cover up to $300 of your seminar costs every time you do one. Mass mail to your hearts content. Investment Classes - call your local library or community college and see if you can set up a series of investment classes there for the public. Chamber, Rotary, Lions, Kiwanis, etc - networking. Cold calling - if you think doorknocking sucks try getting hung up on 150 times a day. However, it's the way many people on this forum get their pipeline full. Newspaper ads - spend the money and wait for the phone calls Radio program - it works for a lot of people in the industry. But you're so new, you might not have the clout to pull it off. Referrals - if you've been in the work force for 30 years, you've got to have made friends along the way. Pick up the phone and ask them for help. Just sit in your office and wait for walk ins - this may be the approach you're using right now. You can tell us if it works or not. Whatever the route you choose, it will obviously be better somewhere other than Jones. Any of these approaches will obviously work better with a better product mix and better payout too. If only you had private placement REITS, equity indexed annuities, options, managed futures, or reverse derivitives, then you'd be all set. Good luck. You're going to need it.[quote=52new]Read the posts, jack. What I’m asking is how easy is it to transfer out, and what are the repercussions. Don’t bother to reply, if I wanted to be bitched at, I’d visit my mother-in-law.
You are an idiot.. all firms use the same prospecting methods since the 60's... Calls/Doorknocking... Nothing has changed, there is no new way. And if you have been around a while then you look even dumber complaining about Jones because you should have known their methods.[quote=52new]I guess if I were a 20 something with more time and energy than common sense and creativity, door knocking would be fine. I am not here to bash Jones. I am just not very impressed with the company or most of the advisors I have met. Ted had a great marketing plan. But it was developed back in the 60’s for the rural midwest and no competitors. He was against going into urban areas. What bothers me is that the GP’s were taught that system and can’t seem to come up with anything new. The failure of the British business shows how provincial the company is. Sorry if this hurts your feelings. I’ve been around a while and I will do what’s best for me.
It does work by the way... Van Pearcy is probably a top 10 producer at RJ.. guess where he spent 7-10yrs... You aren't hurting feelings, no one cares about Jones here... By the way the financial services landscape in the UK is much different than here in a lot of aspects. "F&cking Dumb People Annoy Me"[/quote] I disagree. I have already posted several times that there is a lot of money to be made at the local gentlmans club handing out business cards. I haven't seen any other firm do that, I think that's pretty new.
If you don't want to be bitched at don't make stupid comments. You did not simply ask how easy it is to transfer out. You threw in your expansive 2 years of experience. That makes you a judge of good products and proper ways to prospect. You are not impressed with Jones brokers? Big statement covering 10,000+ Advisors coming from a 2 year old. Quit now and save my Partnership returns. PS. The doorknocking excuse is old and everyone see through it.[/quote] Hey, that's my line. I'm glad you said it before me. 52 - doorknocking in a metro area doesn't work, huh? Then, I should stop? Cause I'm in a metro market (metro STL no less, talk about saturation) and EVERY TIME I get my butt out of my comfortable chair and go ring some doorbells, I get new clients. EVERY TIME. I think metro areas are perfect for doorknocking. It's just more convenient. See, there are 17,000 households in just my zip code alone. There are three similar zip codes within a 15 minute drive of my office. That's almost 50,000 households that I could visit. Not to mention the hundreds of businesses that there are within a few minutes of my office. The difference between me doorknocking and 10 other advisors cold calling is that I get to look them in the eye first and qualify them as good prospects or not from the get go. If I weren't in a metro area, in order to find 50,000 households I'd have to run all over the county. And I'm just simply too lazy to do that. Perhaps you have that same problem. Here are some other ideas for you if you don't want to doorknock: Seminars - Jones will cover up to $300 of your seminar costs every time you do one. Mass mail to your hearts content. Investment Classes - call your local library or community college and see if you can set up a series of investment classes there for the public. Chamber, Rotary, Lions, Kiwanis, etc - networking. Cold calling - if you think doorknocking sucks try getting hung up on 150 times a day. However, it's the way many people on this forum get their pipeline full. Newspaper ads - spend the money and wait for the phone calls Radio program - it works for a lot of people in the industry. But you're so new, you might not have the clout to pull it off. Referrals - if you've been in the work force for 30 years, you've got to have made friends along the way. Pick up the phone and ask them for help. Just sit in your office and wait for walk ins - this may be the approach you're using right now. You can tell us if it works or not. Whatever the route you choose, it will obviously be better somewhere other than Jones. Any of these approaches will obviously work better with a better product mix and better payout too. If only you had private placement REITS, equity indexed annuities, options, managed futures, or reverse derivitives, then you'd be all set. Good luck. You're going to need it. [/quote] Products don't make a difference, but I think you were being sarcastic.. If you have no prospects it doesn't matter.[quote=ytrewq][quote=52new]Read the posts, jack. What I’m asking is how easy is it to transfer out, and what are the repercussions. Don’t bother to reply, if I wanted to be bitched at, I’d visit my mother-in-law.
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't all LPs get the same %payout as all other LPs? And don't all GPs get the same %payout as all other GPs? Also, don't all companies want to increase productivity and grow. What's the old saying... if your not growing, your losing? Also there is nothing Ponzi-esque about the Partnership structure. I buy in, they payout. If I want out, I get out. We've been doing it for over 20 years, and if it didn't work I'd be inclined to think that we would have imploded by now. Do me a favor, and fall down some stairs.Ponzi scheme, an unsustainable investment. The only way to maintain the Jones partnership system is to keep growing and increase productivity per FA. The farther you are down the partnership ladder, the less likely you will ever see financial benefits from the scheme. At some point you saturate the market. Long before that, new FA’s will read the writing on the wall and split.
You guys need to do some math. Ponzi scheme may be a strong statement, but it’s worth it if it gets your attention. Can Jones grow and succeed in a changing environment? And can it do so well enough to support 12000+ FA’s who will all want to be LP’s? How mant FA’s will be required to pay LP $$ with 12000 LP’s? Particularly with a 40 year old business plan, average products, and FA’s who start at 25k/year? Show me how that model won’t lead to a diminishing return? And what will the payout be to a non-LP FA? That money has to come from somewhere.
Jones’ business plan is not 40 years old. It’s about 2.5 years old (see the 5-year plan knucklehead).
All FA's will never be LP's. As long as there is turnover, not everyone will be LP's. I would say about 1/2 will be LP's at any given time. They will only continue to issue new LP shares as long as they want to grow. At some point, times will change, they might grow big enough, and LP just becomes a distribution of profits. Now, people will leave and retire, and Jones will have to pay their LP out to them. This will require them to issue new LP shares to recoup lost capital. It's finance 101 fukcnuts. They will reach critical mass where they are no longer starting guys from scratch (less then half start from scratch now). Inheriting offices, Goodknights, retirements, etc. The model works. But I know you know that and are just trying to bait all of us. In fact, I don't even think you work for Jones.Hey moron.. Not everyone gets LP.. You obviously aren't smart enough to figure this out. At law firms it is set up the same way. But not everyone makes partner, some leave when they realize they aren't going to make it, some get fired, some struggle along. EDJ is the sameway. LP/GP is based on profitablity of the firm(same with a law firm), so the idea behind making people partners is based on sustainable growth. With your example, of those 12,000 FAs, 25% will leave in the next three years(not knocking jones, industry average) when you leave you cash out your LP, so that goes back into the pot clearing the way for another "worthy" producer to get LP. It's not a ponzi moron.. It's the equivalent of getting stock options at a Wirehouse, except these are completely private and some would say not affected by stock market swings.. Exception is you can take stock with you, whereas LP you get paid out on. But what would you rather have in the past 3 years Citi Stock or EDJ LP... I would take LP... Full Disclosure: Used to work at EDJ, now indy, so I don't really care..You guys need to do some math. Ponzi scheme may be a strong statement, but it’s worth it if it gets your attention. Can Jones grow and succeed in a changing environment? And can it do so well enough to support 12000+ FA’s who will all want to be LP’s? How mant FA’s will be required to pay LP $$ with 12000 LP’s? Particularly with a 40 year old business plan, average products, and FA’s who start at 25k/year? Show me how that model won’t lead to a diminishing return? And what will the payout be to a non-LP FA? That money has to come from somewhere.
Two E/J kool-ade drinking morons. Too bad the company is full of idiots like you. A real embarrassment to the industry. LP just like a stock option program? Learn before you post moron! Stocks can be sold any day the market is open. Try to sell an LP! And if E/J’s goal is 12000 FA’s, that accounts for turnover jackass! That means 12000 FA’s who will expect an LP someday. Which will mean you need what 24000 FA’s to cover that cost. I see ponzi written all over that plan. The marketing plan is 40 years old f-ckwad. Still based on door-knocking. That’s all that is taught to new FA’s, who for the most part don’t belong in this industry. But what can you expect for 25k/year. Dipsh-ts!!! The fact that you company trolls keep responding to my posts shows just how truthfull they are. Merry Christmas and Happy Kwanza assholes!
Two E/J kool-ade drinking morons. Too bad the company is full of idiots like you. A real embarrassment to the industry. LP just like a stock option program? Learn before you post moron! Stocks can be sold any day the market is open. Try to sell an LP! And if E/J’s goal is 12000 FA’s, that accounts for turnover jackass! That means 12000 FA’s who will expect an LP someday. Which will mean you need what 24000 FA’s to cover that cost. I see ponzi written all over that plan. The marketing plan is 40 years old f-ckwad. Still based on door-knocking. That’s all that is taught to new FA’s, who for the most part don’t belong in this industry. But what can you expect for 25k/year. Dipsh-ts!!! The fact that you company trolls keep responding to my posts shows just how truthfull they are. Merry Christmas and Happy Kwanza assholes!
Dude, all of that age and experience gone to waste.
I am independent, as are most of the people responding to your posts. We don't like to defend Jones, but we equally do not like to see idiots post misinformation on the board.
Most new FA's don't belong in the industry? You are one of them.
It is not even close to the definition of a ponzi scheme. LP is an investment, and while it is not accurate to say it is like a stock, it is still an investment with value. People invest in real estate and you can't sell that to anyone any time the market is open.
Part of growing the number of FA's is increased market share, which will allow more sustained returns.
If you are independent and you have a partnership set up, partners will always earn greater returns for the work the bees do. It's how things work.
What do you want? A socialized brokerage firm that makes sure the GPs and LPs don't get any money so that the FA's who can't or won't try to make it like you can continue to NOT produce and fcuk up everything.
Two E/J kool-ade drinking morons. Too bad the company is full of idiots like you. A real embarrassment to the industry. LP just like a stock option program? Learn before you post moron! Stocks can be sold any day the market is open. Try to sell an LP! And if E/J’s goal is 12000 FA’s, that accounts for turnover jackass! That means 12000 FA’s who will expect an LP someday. Which will mean you need what 24000 FA’s to cover that cost. I see ponzi written all over that plan. The marketing plan is 40 years old f-ckwad. Still based on door-knocking. That’s all that is taught to new FA’s, who for the most part don’t belong in this industry. But what can you expect for 25k/year. Dipsh-ts!!! The fact that you company trolls keep responding to my posts shows just how truthfull they are. Merry Christmas and Happy Kwanza assholes!
So you're dumb AND drunk!!
Dear Moron, independent my ass. E/J troll is what you are. No independent gives a sh-t about Jones. Typical of that schlock house to ride these blogs worried about “mis” information, that happens to be true. You must be a Jones idiot because you don’t understand the math well enough to realize what a scheme LP is. It’s a way for the rich to get richer, while future FA’s have to work harder for less. And sooner or later the numbers won’t support the LP GP payout. Particularly in a fee for service universe that Jones can’t compete in. You may have been born stupid, and that’s not your fault. But a liar is by choice, so don’t lie about your lack of affiliation with Jones.
… whatever. You’re failing at Edward Jones; that’s all I know to give you the value you deserve.
Best of luck in your next job. Please leave soon.
Dear Moron, independent my ass. E/J troll is what you are. No independent gives a sh-t about Jones. Typical of that schlock house to ride these blogs worried about “mis” information, that happens to be true. You must be a Jones idiot because you don’t understand the math well enough to realize what a scheme LP is. It’s a way for the rich to get richer, while future FA’s have to work harder for less. And sooner or later the numbers won’t support the LP GP payout. Particularly in a fee for service universe that Jones can’t compete in. You may have been born stupid, and that’s not your fault. But a liar is by choice, so don’t lie about your lack of affiliation with Jones.
That's funny. If you do a search of my posts, you will find tirades against Jones as I left. You will also read about posts that I have made highlighting why Jones people should go indy. It also talks about the transition process, and I have aided others in the process.
I'm sorry that you could not succeed at Jones. Maybe someday you will go back to sweeping floors and be happy.
I would post my ADV, but I simply don't trust a failure.
The fact that you know absolutely nothing about finance, math or statistics speak volumes.
Seeing how you have never had LP at Jones I will explain it to you... Friend of mine left EDJ to join LPL, had $125K in LP.. Called home office 3 days before he resigned said he had cash problems need to liquidate LP..all of it.. Home office deposited the entire amount in his EDJ brokerage account within 3 days, then he resigned. I think we have covered this but... Outdated marketing plan?? What is the difference between a doorknock and a phone call script....NOTHING except where it is done. No firm has an updated marketing plan or else the failure rate wouldn't be what it is. So EDJ producers don't belong in the industry? And you got hired... They don't have the biggest producers but they do have their share, and some that have left after building a business at EDJ (The number 2 guy at RJ started at EDJ, The guy who founded Scottrade EDJ alum too.. oddly enough if you go back on a lot of peoples history you will find EDJ) I DON'T WORK THERE ASSHOLE....Two E/J kool-ade drinking morons. Too bad the company is full of idiots like you. A real embarrassment to the industry. LP just like a stock option program? Learn before you post moron! Stocks can be sold any day the market is open. Try to sell an LP! And if E/J’s goal is 12000 FA’s, that accounts for turnover jackass! That means 12000 FA’s who will expect an LP someday. Which will mean you need what 24000 FA’s to cover that cost. I see ponzi written all over that plan. The marketing plan is 40 years old f-ckwad. Still based on door-knocking. That’s all that is taught to new FA’s, who for the most part don’t belong in this industry. But what can you expect for 25k/year. Dipsh-ts!!! The fact that you company trolls keep responding to my posts shows just how truthfull they are. Merry Christmas and Happy Kwanza assholes!
Bullsh*t. Only a jones company troll would be this stupid.
Bullsh*t. Only a jones company troll would be this stupid.
Or only a failure two years into Jones could be as stupid as you.
It's ok buddy, we know.
Thy dirty toilets await sir. Gets to cleanin'!
Ok, it took a while but I'm calling BS on this guy. He's not a Jonesy, and probably not even a broker. He's a cancer to this forum.Bullsh*t. Only a jones company troll would be this stupid.
While I firmly believe that 52new is just trying to start an argument, I thought this post was worth some time to discuss. He's got a good point. Can Jones grow and succeed in a changing environment? Can we do it well? What will the payout to a non-LP FA be? Around 38%. Same as to a LP FA. Surely somewhere along the line someone has discussed payout vs LP/GP to you. I don't ever get my commissions confused with my LP. They are two completely different issues. One is how well I'm doing in my office, one is how well the company is doing as a whole. I believe that Jones can grow and succeed in a changing environment. It's been changing since the 1930's when we were just a thought in the head of Edward D. Jones. It has been and always will be a changing environment. A changing environment isn't an issue. Can we succeed? I believe that we can. Jones is trying, successfully I might add, to change the way the company makes money. It started years ago with MAP and has developed to Advisory Solutions. We have billions of dollars going into that program. All of it is recurring revenue. Greater recurring revenue than revenue sharing. I think it will become the major part of our revenue stream in the future. Advisory, or whatever reiteration comes next, can redefine a successful branch at EDJ. See, it used to be that you weren't REALLY successful until you had a $100MM branch. It takes most guys 10+ years to get to that bogey. A lot of those $100MM branches are doing about $40-$50K a month gross. I can do that with under $50MM in something like Advisory. So, from a pure revenue standpoint, the bigger Advisory gets, the more profitable Jones is. Our FAs do start with a roughly $25K a year salary. However, they add their commissions and bonuses to that and many of them are making $50K plus. Surely you know that the salary isn't the only income you make during your first few years. As to the average products comment - our average products are generally the same average products that most other firms have access to. With the exception of some alternative investments and options, we all fish in the same pond. I would imagine there have always been people like you around Jones. The guys who thought the firm wouldn't be able to continue functioning if we had 1000 or 5000 advisors. Where would the money come from to pay those 2000's LPs and GPs? Revenue. That's where it comes from. It will continue to work that way. The basic math is this: Revenue coming in - expenses going out = profit = LP and GP returns As long as there's more revenue coming in than expenses going out, which is generally the case, there will be money there for returns to partners. What else do you have to complain about?You guys need to do some math. Ponzi scheme may be a strong statement, but it’s worth it if it gets your attention. Can Jones grow and succeed in a changing environment? And can it do so well enough to support 12000+ FA’s who will all want to be LP’s? How mant FA’s will be required to pay LP $$ with 12000 LP’s? Particularly with a 40 year old business plan, average products, and FA’s who start at 25k/year? Show me how that model won’t lead to a diminishing return? And what will the payout be to a non-LP FA? That money has to come from somewhere.
Edward Jones
a d o n s Stanford Financial Coincidence? I think not...[quote=gethardgetraw]Edward Jones
a d o n s Stanford Financial Coincidence? I think not...[/quote] This is one of the best sarcastic posts ever done... On a side note: Why aren't you calling?Oh shi you're right brb
[quote=52new] Bullsh*t. Only a jones company troll would be this stupid.
Or only a failure two years into Jones could be as stupid as you.
It's ok buddy, we know.
Thy dirty toilets await sir. Gets to cleanin'![/quote]
Right, ever since I fired Meletio, I need a new piker to clean my toilets.
Cash4Gold.com, biatches!
You may think I am nuts, but I actually do enjoy doorknocking. I’m out a year plus but much prefer d/k over sitting there at the phone all day.
I think people get frustrated by doorknocking because they expect way too much out of it. You aren't trying to close the deal at the first doorknock (although that's happened to me once). You're just looking for low-hanging fruit for now and contacts for later. Maybe it's just me being naive, but I think clients are very tuned to our emotional state and the clues it gives off: body language, tone, inflection, etc. I know when I'm not enjoying what I'm doing, neither is my prospect. How many of you have seen a movie or play where an actor seems to just recite lines? If they're not in it, you aren't in it. Our attitudes really do affect our outcome, in my experience. If I am having a crappy month and I'm getting anxious, I am positive it reflects in my calls - tone of voice, being too eager to take the appointment without more information, etc. The prospect knows my call is instinctively more about my interests than his, and he resists. But the opposite is also true. Once I mellow out and just enjoy meeting people, prospects notice that, too. I relax; they relax. Sorry - got long-winded. Bottom line: Jones is right for some and not for others. And I agree with B24 - NO ONE can claim they got all the way to a can-sell date with Jones and NOT be aware of what Jones has to offer. That's a lot like the dude who chain-smoked for 30 years and now screams that his cigarettes gave him cancer.I know a few people that love doorknocking. I think they are insane, but it works for them, and that’s great. My Visiting Vet in STL training several years ago told me that his regional leader told him he had to stop doorknocking. He was told he had way too many prospects and needed to start working all those leads. He was just one of those “serial” doorknockers. He doorknocked everyday for like 3 years. He had like 2500 prospects. He wasn’t kiiling it, but was averaging like 25K per month, and that was like 7 years in (when I knew him).
Also, I think your doorknocking experience differs from region to region. I have heard from FA's in the south that people are very gracious to them at the door. I live in a buttoned-up part of New England. Let's just say people are NOT very gracious in general. Most people up here don't even talk to their neighbors, let alone a stranger banging on their door.I did the Ed Jones things myself, starting from scratch and building up a livable income. I would probably still be there, but I had to move to the U.S. for personal reasons, and I was not willing to do the Jones thing again in big city USA (small town Jones and big town Jones are 2 different animals). I have worked for two big boy firms since - one while making the transition to the States, and who was willing to sponsor me for my series 7; and one where I finally landed and stayed. I think Jones training for newbies to the industry is the very best. Seriously. The problem being it is also a cult, and not until one detaches himself from the place can you fully realize what a mind melt the place is. I’m glad I left, and when I see a Jones rep today (I’ve been doorknocked twice), they have that look that I’m sure I carried. You know the look - kind of a cross between a Scientologist and Amway rep. I wouldn’t listen to anyone’s opinion about them who is currently drinking their kool-aid, because they are most likely jaded by the brainwashing techniques of that nut farm.
I recently read some academic material on Totalism and cult behaviour, and I kept thinking about Edward Jones. Call it cult lite if you wish, but it is definitely meets the criteria of a cult. Does this sound familiar?-
The Cult Test:
1)The Guru is always right
Anyone else get the urge to puke at hearing of another Ted Jones story, which we heard ad nauseum. Ted Jones is the David Koresh of EDJ. His picture is plastered around the head office in both Canada and St Louis like Stalin.
2)You are Always Wrong
Toss out an original thought, and you will quickly be shut down. Do it often and you are labeled a trouble maker.
3)No Exit
Read the first post in this thread. It speaks for itself. After year 3, load people up with limited partnerships, and you have them by the short hairs.
4)No Graduates
Nobody ever rises to the level of the Guru.
5)Group think, suppression of dissent
6)Personal attacks on critics.
Look at this very thread. From the first page, the kool-aid drinkers start labeling people who voice any objection to Jones as ones who can’t take it. It’s ad hominem, ad nauseum.
7)Insistence that the cult is the only way
Sure, they will cut you some slack if you don’t do it door to door like a jehovah’s witness. They don’t care if you get clients using telepathy, but they will only work with and give time for someone to develop if they do it the the fullerbrush thing.
8)The cult and its members are special
How many times have you heard that? Who doesn’t want to be special? Now get your ass out there and pound the pavement.
9)Induction of guilt
10) Unquestionable dogma
11)Appeals to holy or wise authorities
It’s been a while… Are they still doing the mentor thing? That was ridiculous. My mentor inherited a Goodknight plan and got $20 miilion in assets on day one. He was born on third base and thought he hit a triple. I started with zip, and built up my $20 million by working for it, and cleaning up the slop from all of the other slaughtered sheep who quit soon after realizing Jones sold them a bill of goods. Of the first fifty brokers in our city (we were all new because Jones was new to Canada), one remains. Countless others came and went in the interum.
12)Instant Community
13)Instant Intimacy
14)Starry eyed faith
15)Personal testimonies from earlier converts
16)Cloning
Read: “Jones Clones”. I think I invented that term. I dare you to find a Jones rep of any stature who doesn’t look, smell, walk, talk like a Baptist preacher.
17)Dishonesty, deceit, denial, false promises, yadda yadda yadda
18)Newcomers can’t think right
19)Ideology over experience, observation and logic
The list goes on (and on, and on, and on). I never realized while I was there that I was under the spell, and I feel bad for being party to all of the manipulation tactics myself, once I gained some traction and started doing well. I made some money, learned how to be a decent broker, and left on good terms. I even have a job waiting for me if I want to come back. Still, I saw Jones ruin a lot of lives, wreck a lot of people’s psychological well being and drain a lot of personal bank accounts. I see the same tactics of manipulation, condescension and lies being used by Jones reps on this board. I don’t think it is their fault, because, like me, they are just products of the cult. Anyone can be brainwashed. I was. If you are thinking of bailing, then do it. Trust someone who has done it. You’ll look back and be glad you did.
Dear 52new,
It is always great to read these forums and figure out the only guys complaining about EDJ are the ones like YOU who can't cut it and never will. Quit now. Don't worry about EDJ coming after you. I bet you don't have a big enough AUM to even warrent a transitional FA coming out to your branch. Leave now. Don't send transfer paper's to your client's. Just send an announcement on where you went. You will be lucky if more than 35-40% follow you. If you can live with that, let me know, and I will help you leave now.[quote=sharksandwich]6)Personal attacks on critics.
Look at this
very thread. From the first page, the kool-aid drinkers start labeling
people who voice any objection to Jones as ones who can’t take it. It’s
ad hominem, ad nauseum.[/quote]
[quote=edjgp123]Dear 52new,
This is what I'm talking about. It's sad, I think.
Shark,
I am not bashing people that don't work for EDJ. Just the people who bash EDJ because they are mad they could not make it there. Good luck to you on your new adventure in the UK.[quote=edjgp123]Shark,
I am not bashing people that don't work for EDJ. Just the people who bash EDJ because they are mad they could not make it there. Good luck to you on your new adventure in the UK. [/quote] So it is okay in your mind to bash Jones if you are not mad and you were making it there when you left?[quote=noggin][quote=edjgp123]Shark,
I am not bashing people that don't work for EDJ. Just the people who bash EDJ because they are mad they could not make it there. Good luck to you on your new adventure in the UK. [/quote] So it is okay in your mind to bash Jones if you are not mad and you were making it there when you left?[/quote] There is a difference between bashing Jones with intelligent comments because you disagree with the way they do things, and bashing them like 52new or this guy! We have our differences of opinion on alot of things Jones related Noggin but you always bash with intelligence...these guys are pushing it a bit!Great reply. Thanks. Very helpful. I actually am making it at Jones, but I don’t like the culture. And as I look at more of the practice, I believe the reps, particularly the new ones are getting screwed. Your analogy to a cult is spot on. I intend to build my book with easily trandferable assets(no advisory solutions), and move to an independent when my three years is up. The first sign that Jones is not a forthright company is how they react when they are questioned. I already have a75% offer from an independent, but I want to build my asset base more before I make the move. It’s been a good place to learn, but much of what we learn happens to be wrong.
52, Advisory Solutions assets are transferable.
Thanks for your reply about advisory solutions. My concern is that in a non-qualified account, if the funds in Adv Sol are liquidated upon transfer, it would be a taxable event. So, do the mutual funds in Adv Sol transfer whole, or do they liquidate? One of the reasons I came on with Jones was their position on non-proprietary investments. Now, all we have fee based is Jones Adv Sol. In addition, Adv Sol is a new product without much of a track record. I have considerable personal assets, and I don’t trust Jones analysts enough to put my money there. I won’t make a suggestion to a customer that I wouldn’t do myself.
What is a 75% offer?? I am pretty sure adivsory is like any other fee based program where you can ACAT inkind. Not that it really makes a difference if you are going to change it anyways.. Probably not a lot of gains in the last 3 years..Great reply. Thanks. Very helpful. I actually am making it at Jones, but I don’t like the culture. And as I look at more of the practice, I believe the reps, particularly the new ones are getting screwed. Your analogy to a cult is spot on. I intend to build my book with easily trandferable assets(no advisory solutions), and move to an independent when my three years is up. The first sign that Jones is not a forthright company is how they react when they are questioned. I already have a75% offer from an independent, but I want to build my asset base more before I make the move. It’s been a good place to learn, but much of what we learn happens to be wrong.
Track records? First Ask Ken Heebner about track records.... Second Isn't jones advisory all funds, and don't those funds have track records?Thanks for your reply about advisory solutions. My concern is that in a non-qualified account, if the funds in Adv Sol are liquidated upon transfer, it would be a taxable event. So, do the mutual funds in Adv Sol transfer whole, or do they liquidate? One of the reasons I came on with Jones was their position on non-proprietary investments. Now, all we have fee based is Jones Adv Sol. In addition, Adv Sol is a new product without much of a track record. I have considerable personal assets, and I don’t trust Jones analysts enough to put my money there. I won’t make a suggestion to a customer that I wouldn’t do myself.
[quote=edjgp123]Shark,
I am not bashing people that don't work for EDJ. Just the people who bash EDJ because they are mad they could not make it there. Good luck to you on your new adventure in the UK. [/quote]Thanks.
I think there is a difference in how a person within Jones looks at criticism, and someone who is detached from Jones looks at it. For me it is cerebral, where for someone in the middle of it, it is emotional. For many, working for Jones becomes a part of their self identity, and they see any criticism of Jones as a personal attack - so they respond in kind. I know in my case, when I was in the middle of it all, I would hear criticism from former IR's, and it made me angry.
I am new to this board, but I have logged on here from time to time, and I have read a number of arguments in threads between former and current Jones reps. They become vitriolic and personal. It is akin to arguments about religion and politics, which are two other things that people become defensive of because these things are part of who they are as a person.
The same arguments aren't being made over other firms -- at least not to the same degree of viciousness. I haven't seen another company, in the securities industry or otherwise, with which the employees have such a vested emotional interest. It really is stunning, and gives merit to the claims that Jones reps are brainwashed. I worked for Smith Barney, and I have heard criticism of them many times, both from current and former brokers. I never had the same reaction as I did when someone criticized Jones, and I have never seen other brokers at Smith Barney or other firms react in the same way. I think the reason is because with any other firm on the planet, the brokers' self identity is not tied in with the firm where they work.
I think it is important to understand that the resentments some former Jones brokers have are valid, and it is equally important to know that a criticism of the organization isn't a slam against individual brokers, including you. I'm really appreciative of the friends I made at Jones, although there are very few left from my days there in Canada. Those sheep got slaughtered long ago. I still am friends with some Jones folks I got to know, and I wish them all well. I just wish they could de-program a little.
Track record is a standard generalized definition. While the funds in Advisory solutions have history, since A/S is a fund of fund and the funds are often changing, it’s impossible to determine their history. I don’t have much faith in the E/J analysts that choose the funds. They may be OK. But I’m not ready to invest my money or my customers money in A/S. There are a number of very good fee based plans out there and I’m disappointed that Jones doesn’t offer them. And I don’t see how a Jones FA can survive selling Mutual Funds and trying to live on 10 basis points.
I would be careful using advisory solutions in NQ accounts. I tend to have ETF’s or stocks mixed in with some tax free bonds in those types of accounts because of capital gain exposure. It would be hard to control that if they are constantly rebalancing those funds. It is never a problem to transfer a fee based account in by using in kind. Good luck to you, my offer still stands.
[quote=Hey Kool-Aid][quote=noggin][quote=edjgp123]Shark,
I am not bashing people that don't work for EDJ. Just the people who bash EDJ because they are mad they could not make it there. Good luck to you on your new adventure in the UK. [/quote] So it is okay in your mind to bash Jones if you are not mad and you were making it there when you left?[/quote] There is a difference between bashing Jones with intelligent comments because you disagree with the way they do things, and bashing them like 52new or this guy! We have our differences of opinion on alot of things Jones related Noggin but you always bash with intelligence...these guys are pushing it a bit![/quote] Thanks for your kind words HKA. It is easier for me to look at things rationally, the longer I have been away from Jones.What are the number of very good fee based programs??Track record is a standard generalized definition. While the funds in Advisory solutions have history, since A/S is a fund of fund and the funds are often changing, it’s impossible to determine their history. I don’t have much faith in the E/J analysts that choose the funds. They may be OK. But I’m not ready to invest my money or my customers money in A/S. There are a number of very good fee based plans out there and I’m disappointed that Jones doesn’t offer them. And I don’t see how a Jones FA can survive selling Mutual Funds and trying to live on 10 basis points.
I only use ETF's, index funds, and tax-sensitive funds in my NQ Advisory accounts. Rebalancing rules have higher thresholds in NQ accounts as well. But I agree, I wish we had more control over the rebalancing of NQ accounts. I guess you have to have some rules in place, or it's not really doing what it's intented to do. The significant majority of AS accounts at Jones are qualified.I would be careful using advisory solutions in NQ accounts. I tend to have ETF’s or stocks mixed in with some tax free bonds in those types of accounts because of capital gain exposure. It would be hard to control that if they are constantly rebalancing those funds. It is never a problem to transfer a fee based account in by using in kind. Good luck to you, my offer still stands.
I recently read some academic material on Totalism and cult behaviour, and I kept thinking about Edward Jones. Call it cult lite if you wish, but it is definitely meets the criteria of a cult. Does this sound familiar?-
The Cult Test:
1)The Guru is always right
Anyone else get the urge to puke at hearing of another Ted Jones story, which we heard ad nauseum. Ted Jones is the David Koresh of EDJ. His picture is plastered around the head office in both Canada and St Louis like Stalin. - Who do you want them to talk about? Ben Edwards? Should the company leave the past alone and not talk about how we got to where we are? The knock against Jones growing to 20,000 FAs is the question of culture. How do you keep the culture and history alive while growing so quickly? Answer - you keep talking about the past. You tell the stories about the origins of the firm and why we are who we are. They want to keep the feel of the old company around because that's what people like about Jones. There's a big difference between telling a funny story about eccentric son of the founder of the company who's biggest claim to fame was the doorknocking idea and David Koresh who thought he was a prophet.
2)You are Always Wrong
Toss out an original thought, and you will quickly be shut down. Do it often and you are labeled a trouble maker. - There hasn't been an original thought in this industry in 50 years. Everything is just a repackaging of some old idea. Who exactly do you get in "trouble" with if you have an "original thought"? Compliance? Jim Weddle? Your RL? The only one of those three that mean anything at all is the first one. Worst you're going to get from Weddle is a sarcastic remark in his suggbox response. And your RL is mostly bark with very little bite. Dissent away my friend.
3)No Exit
Read the first post in this thread. It speaks for itself. After year 3, load people up with limited partnerships, and you have them by the short hairs. - This comment is so factually inaccurate that it doesn't even really warrant a response. But - Almost nobody in the field has LP after three years. The timing and their performance isn't normally that well aligned. You can leave Jones anytime you want. Do it in the first couple of years and it might cost you or your new firm some cash. After that, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
4)No Graduates
Nobody ever rises to the level of the Guru. - This is true. There won't ever be another Ted Jones. There have been better leaders of the firm: Bachmann and Weddle and better advisors - David Lane, Van Pearcy, Tom Bartow, Jim McKenzie, and Troy Nelson to name a few. But none of those folks were in a position to influence the firm as much as Ted did. So, he will remain the iconic figure of EDJ, but that's because WE put him there. It's not because, like Stalin or Koresh, he elevated himself to that level by force, coercion, or drugs.
5)Group think, suppression of dissent
6)Personal attacks on critics.
Look at this very thread. From the first page, the kool-aid drinkers start labeling people who voice any objection to Jones as ones who can't take it. It's ad hominem, ad nauseum. - If you'll look at the most vocal posts in this thread, they come from non-Jones people. In fact they come from the very people that I often have some very heated disussions with. Mr. 52 came on here and put out some just plain stupid comments. Thus the personal attacks. If you want ad hominem attacks against Jones, you can find plenty of them here. Here's one for starters - "I wouldn't listen to anyone's opinion about them who is currently drinking their kool-aid, because they are most likely jaded by the brainwashing techniques of that nut farm." Mr. Kettle, meet Mr. Pot. Hmm...you're both black.
7)Insistence that the cult is the only way
Sure, they will cut you some slack if you don't do it door to door like a jehovah's witness. They don't care if you get clients using telepathy, but they will only work with and give time for someone to develop if they do it the the fullerbrush thing. - Really? Do you have any way to prove that? See, because if you're really doing it the fullerbrush way like Jones suggests, then you more than likely won't have to be having a conversation with anyone about needing more time to "develop." At least that's what I've seen in my many years with Jones.
8)The cult and its members are special
How many times have you heard that? Who doesn't want to be special? Now get your ass out there and pound the pavement. - Do you really want your company leaders telling you that you're just a warm body filling a spot in Podunk, AL? Of course they're going to tell you that you're special. It's called motivation and morale building.
9)Induction of guilt - the only guilt I feel is when I don't make enough money to pay my bills. That guilt comes from my gut, not from Jones.
10) Unquestionable dogma - If the dogma were unquestionable, why would they offer up the Suggbox? I've never found anyone at Jones unwilling to answer a question posed in a rational manner. Maybe your RL was different than mine. 11)Appeals to holy or wise authorities
It's been a while... Are they still doing the mentor thing? That was ridiculous. My mentor inherited a Goodknight plan and got $20 miilion in assets on day one. He was born on third base and thought he hit a triple. I started with zip, and built up my $20 million by working for it, and cleaning up the slop from all of the other slaughtered sheep who quit soon after realizing Jones sold them a bill of goods. Of the first fifty brokers in our city (we were all new because Jones was new to Canada), one remains. Countless others came and went in the interum. - So, your mentor taught you nothing about managing money, working with clients, or managing your time? Sure, he might not have been the right guy to ask about doorknocking, but he surely could have taught you something. You know, you also could have asked for a different mentor. For every one story like yours, there are 50 other guys who say they learned a ton from their mentor. 12)Instant Community
13)Instant Intimacy
14)Starry eyed faith
15)Personal testimonies from earlier converts
16)Cloning
Read: "Jones Clones". I think I invented that term. I dare you to find a Jones rep of any stature who doesn't look, smell, walk, talk like a Baptist preacher. - Is there something wrong with Baptist preachers? I walked into a meeting with Oppenheimer once and the room was full of people with white shirts, striped ties, and blue or black pinstriped suits. Since all of the meetings that I'd been to up to that point were Jones only events, I was suprised to be at a table with a team from Merrill, an independant guy, and a lady from a bank. I don't think that look, smell, walk, or talk is Jones specific. I think it's our industry in general.
17)Dishonesty, deceit, denial, false promises, yadda yadda yadda - So, are you, like a few others on here, going to tell us that Jones lied to you? Pray tell...
18)Newcomers can't think right - Because in this business they typically don't know any better until they've been there and done that.
19)Ideology over experience, observation and logic - What ideology exactly is Jones favoring over our experiences, observations, and logic?
The list goes on (and on, and on, and on). I never realized while I was there that I was under the spell, and I feel bad for being party to all of the manipulation tactics myself, once I gained some traction and started doing well. I made some money, learned how to be a decent broker, and left on good terms. I even have a job waiting for me if I want to come back. Still, I saw Jones ruin a lot of lives, wreck a lot of people's psychological well being and drain a lot of personal bank accounts. I see the same tactics of manipulation, condescension and lies being used by Jones reps on this board. I don't think it is their fault, because, like me, they are just products of the cult. Anyone can be brainwashed. I was. If you are thinking of bailing, then do it. Trust someone who has done it. You'll look back and be glad you did.
[/quote] How did Jones - the company - ruin anyone's life? By making them doorknock? Jones - the company - didn't drain anyone's bank account. The only people who have been ruined while at Jones are either the people who couldn't make any money and kept trying to swim upstream or the people who literally stole from their clients and got caught. I have yet to see anyone who did exactly what Jones - the company - told them to do have a negative cash flow. In fact, it is exactly the opposite. The only ones I see at Jones with negative cash flow are the ones who are trying to reinvent the wheel and have those "original thoughts" that you were saying were so despised by Jones. You're throwing a lot of accusations out there: " I see the same tactics of manipulation, condescension and lies being used by Jones reps on this board." I hope you have some clear factual evidence to back up a phrase like that. Otherwise, expect the same kind of responses that Mr. 52 received. Being able to put words together into sentences doesn't mean you don't have some sort of responsibility to back up what you're saying.
Sorry Spaceman. Jones is a cult. If you don’t see it, you are blind. And there is no point discussing it with you. If you don’t like comments, move on. If it wasn’t true(at least in part) you wouldn’t be reacting to it.
You don't have much faith in the analysts? I would bet 1/10th of my months net (still bigger than yours) that you do not know the name of one of those analysts. I am not saying any of them are good. I am saying you are full of crap. I bet you wouldn't know a good mutual fund anyalyst if someone hit you in the head with one. Come back and share your wisdom when you have been a broker for, oh lets say, 3 years?Track record is a standard generalized definition. While the funds in Advisory solutions have history, since A/S is a fund of fund and the funds are often changing, it’s impossible to determine their history. I don’t have much faith in the E/J analysts that choose the funds. They may be OK. But I’m not ready to invest my money or my customers money in A/S. There are a number of very good fee based plans out there and I’m disappointed that Jones doesn’t offer them. And I don’t see how a Jones FA can survive selling Mutual Funds and trying to live on 10 basis points.
I react to all of you folks that call Jones a cult. Mostly because I find the banter interesting, but some because I think you folks aren't fully able to support your position that it is a cult. You don't want to debate it with me because you, unlike sharksandwich who did the best job of anyone I've had this discussion with, can't really debate the issues with fact and not opinion.
Wikipedia says…
Cult pejoratively refers to a group whose beliefs or practices could be considered strange or sinister.[1] The term was originally used to denote a system of ritual practices. I don't think Jones is a cult using the above definition. I will say though they do have cult tendencies... but so do other firms (see Spiff I can be balanced). Example... Ever been to a meeting where other Jones reps are there. I haven't and I know they discourage communication with the outside world.I don’t give a sh-t what the analysts name is. It’s like wanting to know the make of the car that just ran you over. I’ve seen their recommendations since '08, and they suck. Yea, buy some more Bank of America.
[quote=BigCheese]Wikipedia says…
Cult pejoratively refers to a group whose beliefs or practices could be considered strange or sinister.[1] The term was originally used to denote a system of ritual practices. I don't think Jones is a cult using the above definition. I will say though they do have cult tendencies... but so do other firms (see Spiff I can be balanced). Example... Ever been to a meeting where other Jones reps are there. I haven't and I know they discourage communication with the outside world.[/quote] GOD BLESS US....EVERYONEMost of the Jones arguments are simply characteristic of every firm in this industry. What is different about Jones is that their reps hand over books for nothing and then Jones Management gets to choose the winners and the losers. How is it fair that wind and B24 get huge books given to them and guys like Volt and still@jones get nothing? I don’t think anyone would have a problem if advisors at Jones had to shell out some money to BUY a book from a retiring or departing broker. Its that people get something for nothing that makes advisors mad and hurts morale.
EDJ isn’t perfect but it’s been a good fit for me in a small town setting. 4 years out. 40 million AUC. My first year my income was
$80,000. The next year I made $145,000. I am still in the business
building process, and Edward Jones has been very good for me.
[quote=Advisor238]EDJ isn’t perfect but it’s been a good fit for me in a small town setting. 4 years out. 40 million AUC. My first year my income was
$80,000. The next year I made $145,000. I am still in the business
building process, and Edward Jones has been very good for me.[/quote]
If I were in a small town, I’d do Jones. No doubt about it.
I recently read some academic material on Totalism and cult behaviour, and I kept thinking about Edward Jones. Call it cult lite if you wish, but it is definitely meets the criteria of a cult. Does this sound familiar?-
The Cult Test:
1)The Guru is always right
Anyone else get the urge to puke at hearing of another Ted Jones story, which we heard ad nauseum. Ted Jones is the David Koresh of EDJ. His picture is plastered around the head office in both Canada and St Louis like Stalin. - Who do you want them to talk about? Ben Edwards? Should the company leave the past alone and not talk about how we got to where we are? The knock against Jones growing to 20,000 FAs is the question of culture. How do you keep the culture and history alive while growing so quickly? Answer - you keep talking about the past. You tell the stories about the origins of the firm and why we are who we are. They want to keep the feel of the old company around because that's what people like about Jones. There's a big difference between telling a funny story about eccentric son of the founder of the company who's biggest claim to fame was the doorknocking idea and David Koresh who thought he was a prophet.
2)You are Always Wrong
Toss out an original thought, and you will quickly be shut down. Do it often and you are labeled a trouble maker. - There hasn't been an original thought in this industry in 50 years. Everything is just a repackaging of some old idea. Who exactly do you get in "trouble" with if you have an "original thought"? Compliance? Jim Weddle? Your RL? The only one of those three that mean anything at all is the first one. Worst you're going to get from Weddle is a sarcastic remark in his suggbox response. And your RL is mostly bark with very little bite. Dissent away my friend.
3)No Exit
Read the first post in this thread. It speaks for itself. After year 3, load people up with limited partnerships, and you have them by the short hairs. - This comment is so factually inaccurate that it doesn't even really warrant a response. But - Almost nobody in the field has LP after three years. The timing and their performance isn't normally that well aligned. You can leave Jones anytime you want. Do it in the first couple of years and it might cost you or your new firm some cash. After that, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
4)No Graduates
Nobody ever rises to the level of the Guru. - This is true. There won't ever be another Ted Jones. There have been better leaders of the firm: Bachmann and Weddle and better advisors - David Lane, Van Pearcy, Tom Bartow, Jim McKenzie, and Troy Nelson to name a few. But none of those folks were in a position to influence the firm as much as Ted did. So, he will remain the iconic figure of EDJ, but that's because WE put him there. It's not because, like Stalin or Koresh, he elevated himself to that level by force, coercion, or drugs.
5)Group think, suppression of dissent
6)Personal attacks on critics.
Look at this very thread. From the first page, the kool-aid drinkers start labeling people who voice any objection to Jones as ones who can't take it. It's ad hominem, ad nauseum. - If you'll look at the most vocal posts in this thread, they come from non-Jones people. In fact they come from the very people that I often have some very heated disussions with. Mr. 52 came on here and put out some just plain stupid comments. Thus the personal attacks. If you want ad hominem attacks against Jones, you can find plenty of them here. Here's one for starters - "I wouldn't listen to anyone's opinion about them who is currently drinking their kool-aid, because they are most likely jaded by the brainwashing techniques of that nut farm." Mr. Kettle, meet Mr. Pot. Hmm...you're both black.
7)Insistence that the cult is the only way
Sure, they will cut you some slack if you don't do it door to door like a jehovah's witness. They don't care if you get clients using telepathy, but they will only work with and give time for someone to develop if they do it the the fullerbrush thing. - Really? Do you have any way to prove that? See, because if you're really doing it the fullerbrush way like Jones suggests, then you more than likely won't have to be having a conversation with anyone about needing more time to "develop." At least that's what I've seen in my many years with Jones.
8)The cult and its members are special
How many times have you heard that? Who doesn't want to be special? Now get your ass out there and pound the pavement. - Do you really want your company leaders telling you that you're just a warm body filling a spot in Podunk, AL? Of course they're going to tell you that you're special. It's called motivation and morale building.
9)Induction of guilt - the only guilt I feel is when I don't make enough money to pay my bills. That guilt comes from my gut, not from Jones.
10) Unquestionable dogma - If the dogma were unquestionable, why would they offer up the Suggbox? I've never found anyone at Jones unwilling to answer a question posed in a rational manner. Maybe your RL was different than mine. 11)Appeals to holy or wise authorities
It's been a while... Are they still doing the mentor thing? That was ridiculous. My mentor inherited a Goodknight plan and got $20 miilion in assets on day one. He was born on third base and thought he hit a triple. I started with zip, and built up my $20 million by working for it, and cleaning up the slop from all of the other slaughtered sheep who quit soon after realizing Jones sold them a bill of goods. Of the first fifty brokers in our city (we were all new because Jones was new to Canada), one remains. Countless others came and went in the interum. - So, your mentor taught you nothing about managing money, working with clients, or managing your time? Sure, he might not have been the right guy to ask about doorknocking, but he surely could have taught you something. You know, you also could have asked for a different mentor. For every one story like yours, there are 50 other guys who say they learned a ton from their mentor. 12)Instant Community
13)Instant Intimacy
14)Starry eyed faith
15)Personal testimonies from earlier converts
16)Cloning
Read: "Jones Clones". I think I invented that term. I dare you to find a Jones rep of any stature who doesn't look, smell, walk, talk like a Baptist preacher. - Is there something wrong with Baptist preachers? I walked into a meeting with Oppenheimer once and the room was full of people with white shirts, striped ties, and blue or black pinstriped suits. Since all of the meetings that I'd been to up to that point were Jones only events, I was suprised to be at a table with a team from Merrill, an independant guy, and a lady from a bank. I don't think that look, smell, walk, or talk is Jones specific. I think it's our industry in general.
17)Dishonesty, deceit, denial, false promises, yadda yadda yadda - So, are you, like a few others on here, going to tell us that Jones lied to you? Pray tell...
18)Newcomers can't think right - Because in this business they typically don't know any better until they've been there and done that.
19)Ideology over experience, observation and logic - What ideology exactly is Jones favoring over our experiences, observations, and logic?
The list goes on (and on, and on, and on). I never realized while I was there that I was under the spell, and I feel bad for being party to all of the manipulation tactics myself, once I gained some traction and started doing well. I made some money, learned how to be a decent broker, and left on good terms. I even have a job waiting for me if I want to come back. Still, I saw Jones ruin a lot of lives, wreck a lot of people's psychological well being and drain a lot of personal bank accounts. I see the same tactics of manipulation, condescension and lies being used by Jones reps on this board. I don't think it is their fault, because, like me, they are just products of the cult. Anyone can be brainwashed. I was. If you are thinking of bailing, then do it. Trust someone who has done it. You'll look back and be glad you did.
[/quote] How did Jones - the company - ruin anyone's life? By making them doorknock? Jones - the company - didn't drain anyone's bank account. The only people who have been ruined while at Jones are either the people who couldn't make any money and kept trying to swim upstream or the people who literally stole from their clients and got caught. I have yet to see anyone who did exactly what Jones - the company - told them to do have a negative cash flow. In fact, it is exactly the opposite. The only ones I see at Jones with negative cash flow are the ones who are trying to reinvent the wheel and have those "original thoughts" that you were saying were so despised by Jones. You're throwing a lot of accusations out there: " I see the same tactics of manipulation, condescension and lies being used by Jones reps on this board." I hope you have some clear factual evidence to back up a phrase like that. Otherwise, expect the same kind of responses that Mr. 52 received. Being able to put words together into sentences doesn't mean you don't have some sort of responsibility to back up what you're saying. [/quote]
[quote=Advisor238] EDJ isn’t perfect but it’s been a good fit for me in a small town setting. 4 years out. 40 million AUC. My first year my income was
$80,000. The next year I made $145,000. I am still in the business
building process, and Edward Jones has been very good for me.[/quote]
I can’t argue with you. The Jones recipe was built for the small town broker. Ted was a genius with respect to that market.
Sounds like Sammy Sosa "Baseball been very good to me"EDJ isn’t perfect but it’s been a good fit for me in a small town setting. 4 years out. 40 million AUC. My first year my income was
$80,000. The next year I made $145,000. I am still in the business
building process, and Edward Jones has been very good for me.
[quote=Advisor238]EDJ isn’t perfect but it’s been a good fit for me in a small town setting. 4 years out. 40 million AUC. My first year my income was $80,000. The next year I made $145,000. I am still in the business building process, and Edward Jones has been very good for me.
Sounds like Sammy Sosa “Baseball been very good to me”[/quote]
Actually that was Garret Morris from Saturday Night Live. “Bas-a-ball ben bery bery good to me”.
[quote=Spaceman Spiff]
I react to all of you folks that call Jones a cult. Mostly because I find the banter interesting, but some because I think you folks aren’t fully able to support your position that it is a cult. You don’t want to debate it with me because you, unlike sharksandwich who did the best job of anyone I’ve had this discussion with, can’t really debate the issues with fact and not opinion.[/quote]
I am not interested in debating you, Spaceman. Jones to me is a lot like my first girlfriend: I don’t think about them much, they didn’t screw me, and even though we went our separate ways, I hate to see them screwing other people. Today is really the most thought that I put into that place in years.
[quote=BerkshireBull]Most of the Jones arguments are simply characteristic of every firm in this industry. What is different about Jones is that their reps hand over books for nothing and then Jones Management gets to choose the winners and the losers. How is it fair that wind and B24 get huge books given to them and guys like Volt and still@jones get nothing? I don’t think anyone would have a problem if advisors at Jones had to shell out some money to BUY a book from a retiring or departing broker. Its that people get something for nothing that makes advisors mad and hurts morale.
[/quote]
Nobody gave B24 a ‘huge book.’
[quote=buyandhold]
[quote=BerkshireBull]Most of the Jones arguments are simply characteristic of every firm in this industry. What is different about Jones is that their reps hand over books for nothing and then Jones Management gets to choose the winners and the losers. How is it fair that wind and B24 get huge books given to them and guys like Volt and still@jones get nothing? I don’t think anyone would have a problem if advisors at Jones had to shell out some money to BUY a book from a retiring or departing broker. Its that people get something for nothing that makes advisors mad and hurts morale.
[/quote]
Nobody gave B24 a ‘huge book.’
[/quote]
My bad, was it spiff that got one? The point isn’t really about anyone specifically, I got a leg-up as well, not in assets but in training. It’s about the system of giving something away for nothing.
B24 didn’t get a huge book and as much as I hate Wind, he didn’t get a huge book either. I will agree that Jones advisors who retire should be able to sell their book to a new or current FA. I also agree that Jones should have a better system in place for assets that are handed out after a guy leaves.
[quote=Ron 14] B24 didn’t get a huge book and as much as I hate Wind, he didn’t get a huge book either. I will agree that Jones advisors who retire should be able to sell their book to a new or current FA. I also agree that Jones should have a better system in place for assets that are handed out after a guy leaves. [/quote]
Life isn’t fair. No one has been told since the 50s that life was fair. Point is, that I believe Jones tells and/or leads their recruits to believe that everything at their firm is fair, and then they dump $10-20-50mil on one newbie and basically give him one of the greatest careers available while another guy whose in the same boat and doing the same work has a 90% chance he’ll not only end up out of this business but in doing so he’ll burn up tens of thousands of dollars and dig himself a huge hole trying to grab this dream that Jones keeps telling him is just a doorknock away.
You go to other companies and they’ll tell you to your face that everyone doesn’t get the same treatment. Jones tells you that you will.
[quote=BerkshireBull] Most of the Jones arguments are simply characteristic of every firm in this industry. What is different about Jones is that their reps hand over books for nothing and then Jones Management gets to choose the winners and the losers. How is it fair that wind and B24 get huge books given to them and guys like Volt and still@jones get nothing? I don’t think anyone would have a problem if advisors at Jones had to shell out some money to BUY a book from a retiring or departing broker. Its that people get something for nothing that makes advisors mad and hurts morale.
[/quote]
Holy sh!t! Does somebody know something I don’t? Am I getting an early Christmas present? C’mon. Am I?
And by the way, I don’t think Windy got a huge book given to him either. I think he got like $1mm in an existing office. I don’t think that was his meal ticket.
One other thing, Jones advisors that inherit a retiring brokers book DO have to buy it you fukcnut. They pay like 150% of gross over 3 years (they pay 70% the first year, 50% the 2nd year, and 30% the 3rd year). And it gets paid directly to the departing FA. It’s right on Joneslink. And I don’t know here in this industry you pay for a departing broker’s book. It happens literally every day in wirehouses. That’s how most wirehouse brokers build their books, other than joining existing teams. Jones is NO DIFFERENT than any other firm in this industry with regards to inherited and abandoned books, other than in wirehouses, the branch manager decides who gets the books instead of the regional leader or someone in STL.
Seriously, before you post, just get at least one of your facts straight.
According to Jones employment contract, Jones owns all assets, and all customer information. They offer a pittance to retirees, but the FA does not “own” his book. Too much koolade will make you guys diabetic.
You got me on that one. Bank of America was a pretty poor pick as a mutual fund.I don’t give a sh-t what the analysts name is. It’s like wanting to know the make of the car that just ran you over. I’ve seen their recommendations since '08, and they suck. Yea, buy some more Bank of America.
[quote=B24]
And by the way, I don’t think Windy got a huge book given to him either. I think he got like $1mm in an existing office. I don’t think that was his meal ticket.
[/quote]
He got six million given to him. He acts like it was nothing because his ego won’t allow him to admit it’s helped him.
Big Cheese, I mean 52new. You are funny.
I think the only way a Jones office would work in NYC would be if the advisor acted like he worked for any other firm. No DKing, just cold calls etc. I roomed with a NYC guy at PDP. He said DKing in NYC was about as useful as a steak-knife made of cardboard.Jones is for gay’s in the midwest
ARE U KIDDING ME? COULD U SURVIVE IN NYC??? I HAVE NEVER EVEN SEEN A JONES STATEMENT IN 10 YEARS???
I think that is one of the problems. Jones tries to ingrain in the Rep's Dna that they are different than every other firm out there. The fact is they are not that much different. They make political decisions regarding who gets inherited books and who doesn't. They pay about the same as wirehouses. They haircut on products just like wirehouses. They train a ton of people just like wirehouses. The difference is the wirehouse tells you that you are an employee, Jones tells you that you are family.....I find that at the least misleading.......[quote=BerkshireBull] Most of the Jones arguments are simply characteristic of every firm in this industry. What is different about Jones is that their reps hand over books for nothing and then Jones Management gets to choose the winners and the losers. How is it fair that wind and B24 get huge books given to them and guys like Volt and still@jones get nothing? I don’t think anyone would have a problem if advisors at Jones had to shell out some money to BUY a book from a retiring or departing broker. Its that people get something for nothing that makes advisors mad and hurts morale.
[/quote]
Holy sh!t! Does somebody know something I don’t? Am I getting an early Christmas present? C’mon. Am I?
And by the way, I don’t think Windy got a huge book given to him either. I think he got like $1mm in an existing office. I don’t think that was his meal ticket.
One other thing, Jones advisors that inherit a retiring brokers book DO have to buy it you fukcnut. They pay like 150% of gross over 3 years (they pay 70% the first year, 50% the 2nd year, and 30% the 3rd year). And it gets paid directly to the departing FA. It’s right on Joneslink. And I don’t know here in this industry you pay for a departing broker’s book. It happens literally every day in wirehouses. That’s how most wirehouse brokers build their books, other than joining existing teams. Jones is NO DIFFERENT than any other firm in this industry with regards to inherited and abandoned books, other than in wirehouses, the branch manager decides who gets the books instead of the regional leader or someone in STL.
Seriously, before you post, just get at least one of your facts straight.
Six million is nothing. Even if the whole thing were in Advisory Solutions it wouldn't be enough to hit the numbers that Wind is hitting. It's not enough for anyone to keep their family in food and clothing. Unless you're talking about $20+ million books, then they're not big. It's pretty rare for someone to inherit or buy or take over a career making book. It does happen. The guy who took over the lion's share of David Lane's book in Paducah, KY got handed just shy of $100 million. In Alex's defense, he built his own book here, doing the dreaded doorknocking thing like everyone else, in the STL area before Jones just handed him David book and office. In the brokerage business, $6MM or even $10MM is nothing. It's just enough to make you think that you don't have to work as hard as the new guy because you've already got some clients. I think in many cases it can be a hinderance more than a help.[quote=B24]
And by the way, I don’t think Windy got a huge book given to him either. I think he got like $1mm in an existing office. I don’t think that was his meal ticket.
[/quote]
He got six million given to him. He acts like it was nothing because his ego won’t allow him to admit it’s helped him.
I knew that one was long, but I couldn't think of another way to respond to his points. That and the caffeine and sugar from the Crown Candy box of chocolates my BOA gave me yesterday were the reason for the epic post.20) Must post lengthy rebuttals to anyone criticizing the cult.
[quote=sharksandwich] [quote=Spaceman Spiff]
I react to all of you folks that call Jones a cult. Mostly because I find the banter interesting, but some because I think you folks aren't fully able to support your position that it is a cult. You don't want to debate it with me because you, unlike sharksandwich who did the best job of anyone I've had this discussion with, can't really debate the issues with fact and not opinion.[/quote]
I am not interested in debating you, Spaceman. Jones to me is a lot like my first girlfriend: I don't think about them much, they didn't screw me, and even though we went our separate ways, I hate to see them screwing other people. Today is really the most thought that I put into that place in years.
It is probably the same person…
Spiffy…getting a little defensive aren’t you? Look all firms that covet their salesforce have some form of manipulative behaviors. Jones is no different. Don’'t you get tired of constantly beating the drums.
It's the holidays.Don't you get tired of thinking about a firm you no longer have any association with?
These guys come on here and write their little diatribes and then tell me that they don't want to debate with me. Sissies. I don't view giving a counterpoint as being defensive. If they aren't open to debate or a challenge of their thoughts, then they shouldn't waste our time posting.[quote=Spaceman Spiff]So, you’re just interested in throwing out your opinion as fact, without having any real discussion about the inflammatory remarks about manipulation, lies, ruining of lives, deceit, and suppression of dissent. At least we know where you stand. You and 52 are two peas in a pod. [/quote]
Nah. I don’t want to debate this because I’ve seen this same topic beaten to death on this forum. It’s a circle jerk of an argument, and nobody wins. There is no point in arguing someone’s religion, and if I want to debate someone too deluded to realize they work for a commercial cult, I’ll go find me an Amway rep. I think you and I are going to have to agree to disagree
On a side note, since I posted here yesterday, I spoke with my former RL, who I am using for a reference for a position in the UK (where Jones doesn’t seem to be too popular nowadays). From when I started as one of the original Jones brokers in my city, where we all started from scratch because it is in Canada, and we had no benefit of inheriting books or Goodknight plans, more than 350 brokers have come and gone (out of about 35 offices). One original IR is left, and the attrition rate is around 98%. Besides the lone original IR who is left, the only guy to make it beyond three years is the guy who inherited my book and took over my office.
I think these numbers are typical of any city (not town. Jones kicks ass in small towns), but in the States they can give the illusion that the program “works if you work it” by propping some folks up with inherited assets and Goodnight plans.
Spiffy-
Why so testy? Go hug your family and fogetabout it. Figure out how your gonna cover your nut...that's more important than defending the firm from all of us who hate Jones sooooo much. I have declared 2010 a year where there will be much less cheese on these forums and much more revenue in my company! It ain't worth it to debate the less fortunate. As my friend said so eloquently this past weekend at a party; There is no such thing as winning only degrees of losing. That my friend sums it all up. Happy holidays to all....As Dale Carnegie said, “nobody ever won an argument”.
It’s just so much fun!!!
[quote=BigCheese]Spiffy-
Why so testy? Go hug your family and fogetabout it. Figure out how your gonna cover your nut...that's more important than defending the firm from all of us who hate Jones sooooo much. I have declared 2010 a year where there will be much less cheese on these forums and much more revenue in my company! It ain't worth it to debate the less fortunate. As my friend said so eloquently this past weekend at a party; There is no such thing as winning only degrees of losing. That my friend sums it all up. Happy holidays to all....[/quote] Nut was covered about 3 weeks ago, so I have lots of time to be on here this week. I'm at the office cleaning off my desk and I get distracted easily, thus the long and frequent posts. I'm outta here at about 3:30 today and won't be back until Monday. How boring would this place be if I just rolled over and didn't argue with all of you Jones haters?Best month ever in December. Merry Christmas!
According to Jones employment contract, Jones owns all assets, and all customer information. They offer a pittance to retirees, but the FA does not “own” his book. Too much koolade will make you guys diabetic.
So you read the contract, and are still b!tching?
Dude, you seriously need to leave. If you have an offer, then go. But really, I can't believe you would leave Jones and do anything but go independent (and not just work for an independent).
I couldn't even stomach LPL or RayJay taking a percentage, which is why I went RIA. If you have better ideas (I assume you do) and know a way to build a better mousetrap, get out of there. You will love life so much more and won't end up a bitter old man. It took me six months to get past the hate.
Source URL:https://www.wealthmanagement.com/forums/rookies-trainees/2-years-jones