Top 5/Bottom 5 Indy BD Choices

my 2 cents (without listing any names)

The indy world is growing at a very fast rate. Make sure whatever firm you choose, that it can handle the growth. I had an experience with a good sized B/D that was located in the middle of nowhere. It was great until the mass movement into indy occurred. Then everything fell through the cracks. Because of their location, they had a “limited” pool of people in the surround communities. They had a really hard time hiring good people. So they decided to replace customer service with technology. Big mistake and they lost good reps who got fed up with them.

Stick with a b/d that is located in a major city.

Cambridge?

[quote=CALI123]my 2 cents (without listing any names)

The indy world is growing at a very fast rate. Make sure whatever firm you choose, that it can handle the growth. I had an experience with a good sized B/D that was located in the middle of nowhere. It was great until the mass movement into indy occurred. Then everything fell through the cracks. Because of their location, they had a “limited” pool of people in the surround communities. They had a really hard time hiring good people. So they decided to replace customer service with technology. Big mistake and they lost good reps who got fed up with them.

Stick with a b/d that is located in a major city.

[/quote]

So, I take it a BD in Des Moines or Stola City is probably not on your radar?!  Thanks for the feedback. Makes a lot of sense

my 2 cents (without listing any names)

The indy world is growing at a very fast rate. Make sure whatever firm you choose, that it can handle the growth. I had an experience with a good sized B/D that was located in the middle of nowhere. It was great until the mass movement into indy occurred. Then everything fell through the cracks. Because of their location, they had a “limited” pool of people in the surround communities. They had a really hard time hiring good people. So they decided to replace customer service with technology. Big mistake and they lost good reps who got fed up with them.

Stick with a b/d that is located in a major city.

let me restate - a larger city. Avoid the b/ds sitting in the middle of the cornfields.  - from my personal experience.

one more thing… make sure to talk to Commonwealth. For the past few years they send me all sorts of cool gifts -even though I never had more than a 20 minute conversation with them. Just got my football today…

[quote=iceco1d]Burton,

They are an example of a firm that grew to quick and has no idea how to adapt, plus the guy who initiated the growth left(jeff ausll or something like that) and they had no idea what to do…

I’ms sort of surpprised TradePMR only has like $2B under management.  I realize they are relatively new, and cater to smaller RIA’s.  Hopefully they are not planning to get bought one of these days.

[quote=Squash1][quote=iceco1d]Burton,

The destruction of NEXT came from the top where the priority was to grow at all costs. Someone thought that unsustainable growth was attractive when in reality, it was impossible. Thus, service suffers.

<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />To say one b/d fits all is a fallacy. There are many great b/ds out there with the sole purpose of this understanding: The advisor is the client and their job is to help facilitate and process business effectively and efficiently. Many of these great firms don't advertise because they DON'T want to grow too fast and outpace their ability to provide excellent service. They are almost like an exclusive club.

The way you answer the question "Which indy b/d is right for me?" is by performing self discovery on your practice, identifying and listing you top priorities and concerns, and then research for potential matches. Service, technology/platforms/procedures, culture/values/ideologies, marketing assistance, transition assistance, FINANCIAL STRENGTH, future b/d growth plans and expectations, etc. are just a few items to think about.

I think the best independent firms are VERY selective about who they allow to affiliate with them and they have a strategic vision about how they want to grow and aren't afraid to tell you. A few things that I would suggest asking when performing your due diligence is:

1. Document rep and management turnover for the last two years

2. Perform a FINRA background check

3. Check b/ds financials

4. Service metric - what metric or set of metrics does the b/d have in place to measure their level of service to the advisors in the field. Ask this early in the interview (it is an interview... they should be interviewing you as much as you are interviewing them for commonality and fit), if they can't answer it right away, they don't have one. Take a home office tour to get a feel for the corporate culture and look to see if the employees are happy or not, you will know.

My mama always said, "Broker/dealers are like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get... until you affiliate."

LPL is pissing me off with their stupid gestapo CIP issues.  We can’t open an account anymore without the new client being questioned as if they were members of the Taliban.

Also, if you do a significant amount of VA’s, Raymond James sucks.  My book is about 20% VAs and as a result, I won’t consider RayJay unless everyone else starts haircutting like RayJay.

LPL and Commonwealth are the big players in my area. But, Investors Capital has been stealing brokers away from both. Their selling point is service and they just hired a bunch of new operations people to handle the demand. I sell quite a bit of VAs and I would consider them a VA friendly B/D. I get paid 90% on everything and 100% on insurance if I go direct.

Also, if you do a significant amount of VA’s, Raymond James sucks.  My book is about 20% VAs and as a result, I won’t consider RayJay unless everyone else starts haircutting like RayJay.

[quote=Indyone]Also, if you do a significant amount of VA’s, Raymond James sucks.  My book is about 20% VAs and as a result, I won’t consider RayJay unless everyone else starts haircutting like RayJay.

[quote=Squash1][quote=Indyone]Also, if you do a significant amount of VA’s, Raymond James sucks.  My book is about 20% VAs and as a result, I won’t consider RayJay unless everyone else starts haircutting like RayJay.

I didn’t realize they did that…that sucks…

Have any of you had any dealings with Centaurus?

[quote=Indyone]

Thanks all for the nice comments on Trade-PMR!    As far as the B/D comment is concerned, I think it is all relative to what each Advisor needs (and wants).  I used to work for that firm in the middle-of-the-cornfield and before that worked for those firms in ‘the big city.’  If I were looking for a B/D relationship, and this is just my own personal opinion, I’d look for a B/D that has the capabilities of a wirefirm but is independent and is not owned by a large conglomerate.  These types of firms tend to be self-clearing but not always.

I’m going to go ahead and give a shameless plug for my firm, Capital Guardian, LLC.  We are a small, boutique, privately owned BD/RIA located just outside Charlotte, NC.  Founders started the firm in 2005 after 20 years with Raymond James.  We clear and custody with Pershing.  We do not haircut commissions on VAs or any other products.  We are a solutions based, knowledge cooperative.  Our management team is young, energetic and knows the business.  The majority of management was either an FA at one point or still is to some degree.  Our platform is better than a wirehouse b/c of our true open architecture.  Great fee-based solutions, robust lineup of alternative investments (and I don’t mean private REITs & Oil/Gas LPs), direct access to fixed income traders for corporate and muni bonds (we will kill wirehouse or other retail inventory pricing) and tremendous capabilities for the international client.  We are everything that that the wirehouses, RJ & LPL are not.  We aren’t for everyone and we are selective.  Currently have ~ 60 FAs, mostly on east coast.  We run two channels - regular Indy channel and a branch office channel (currently in Miami, West Palm Beach, and Charlotte - opening soon in Washington DC and probably Baltimore).  We offer equity in the branch offices to founding members and select producers.  Attracting a lot of wirehouse advisors and sophisticated Indy reps who are tired of what RJ, LPL and other large BDs have become.

Based on that information, firms who I would avoid:  1. RJ  2. LPL  3. FiNet  4.  Insurance Based BDs

Other firms we have respect for:  1. Commonwealth  2.  Stifel  3.  Geneos

No offense buddy but maybe the founders had a combined 20 years with RJ… but actual years was 7 for your president and founder who also has a complaint and settlement on his account for get this…

Squash, I appreciate you doing your research. Yes, one of the founders has a mark on his U4. It was an unfortunate situation, but in no way characterizes the type of firm that we are. I don’t think there is anything wrong with putting a few sentences about our firm on this forum. At the end of the day, each rep needs to do their own research and decide what’s best for them. I guess my message to the creator of this thread is that there are a good BDs out there that a lot of people have probably never heard of. You will get a larger product offering, better service and lower fees. I apologize if I offended anyone with my post.

How the hell are they still in business after that?  Why don’t they bar you from the Securities industry?

[quote=Squash1]No offense buddy but maybe the founders had a combined 20 years with RJ… but actual years was 7 for your president and founder who also has a complaint and settlement on his account for get this…

[quote=DD]

[quote=Squash1]No offense buddy but maybe the founders had a combined 20 years with RJ… but actual years was 7 for your president and founder who also has a complaint and settlement on his account for get this…

[quote=Magician]

[quote=DD]

[quote=Squash1]No offense buddy but maybe the founders had a combined 20 years with RJ… but actual years was 7 for your president and founder who also has a complaint and settlement on his account for get this…

Why does he need to ask a question?  The statement says it all.  If mrclutch wants to defend, he can.

I’d take a small producer any day over a crook.

[quote=DD] [quote=Squash1]No offense buddy but maybe the founders had a combined 20 years with RJ… but actual years was 7 for your president and founder who also has a complaint and settlement on his account for get this…

Sorry for taken so long to respond, but I’ve been in two meetings out of the office this morning.  I want to remain as professional as possible, but Squash, you probably should have done your homework a little better before you decided to start bad mouthing people.  Copied below is the case summary from the NASD Dispute Resolution.  This was nothing more than a client wanting a “take back” on some tech stocks that he bought back during the internet and tech boom.  I’m sure there are plenty of advisors who have similar complaints.  I can’t explain the RICO thing, maybe the client’s attorney was really trying to make a name for himself.  I’m not going to call Squash a tool, but I am a little disappointed that he would post such harsh comments without knowing the details, especially when the details were only a couple clicks away after you were already in his FINRA report.

Case Summary

Claimant asserted the following causes of action, among others: breach of fiduciary duty, breach

of contract, violation of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, violation of the North Carolina

relate to various stocks including: Intel, Sun Microsystems, Cisco, Dell and JDS Uniphase.

How is Bernie posting from prision?

From the way I read it, it might have been FVDA. He wasn’t stridently against anyone, offered a professional insight, suggested his firm was good. Moreover, mrclutch makes cogent contributions on matters that don’t directly reflect on his firm on these forums. Of course, that’s because in addition to being a recruiter he’s actually an active financial advisor.

No, Squash just likes to run to broker check and run reports on people for hours.  Piker.

Ok… Squash is kind of creepy, but that guy seemed to be full of sh*t too…I love how we still measure our penis by production and number of assistants…Really?? So all of a sudden producing $250K taking home $225 before taxes and expenses is a bad thing? maybe i should pay somebody another $40K to answer a phone and greet people(retards do that at walmart… )

I got no problem with production numbers, and whether or not to have an admin (there was a long, long thread where I took considerable heat about that). For that matter, I’ve published enough of my numbers, my LOS and the firm for whom I work. There’s really little mystery about me. 

[quote=LockEDJ]I got no problem with production numbers, and whether or not to have an admin (there was a long, long thread where I took considerable heat about that). For that matter, I’ve published enough of my numbers, my LOS and the firm for whom I work. There’s really little mystery about me. 

I'm definitely in the life/work balance, chief, just like you.

You're right about production and admins ... we tell our clients it's not what you make but what you keep, right? If I can keep my gross at 16-20K a month in the indy world, I'd make as much as the very best producers in my area at Jones. That's just sick.

[quote=chief123](retards do that at walmart… )

[quote=CALI123] [quote=chief123](retards do that at walmart… )

“Uh, if we’re sharing beds, I’m bunking with Phil. You cool with that?”

Hey, this is Phil. Leave me a message, or don’t, but do me a favor: don’t text me, it’s gay

[quote=chief123]Isn’t the reason most of us when independent so we don’t have to deal with stupid notions of how much to produce this year to justify my job…

[quote=Indyone][quote=chief123]Isn’t the reason most of us when independent so we don’t have to deal with stupid notions of how much to produce this year to justify my job…

[quote=hotair1] [quote=Indyone][quote=chief123]Isn’t the reason most of us when independent so we don’t have to deal with stupid notions of how much to produce this year to justify my job…

Interesting insight… in that case why ever leave Jones? Paid assistant. Nice advisory program. Trips. Office paid for. Good name on the street. LP. Profit Sharing. Seems like a good “work/life” balance to me.

[quote=hotair1] [quote=Indyone][quote=chief123]Isn’t the reason most of us when independent so we don’t have to deal with stupid notions of how much to produce this year to justify my job…

[quote=Indyone][quote=hotair1] [quote=Indyone][quote=chief123]Isn’t the reason most of us when independent so we don’t have to deal with stupid notions of how much to produce this year to justify my job…

[quote=hotair1] [quote=Indyone][quote=chief123]Isn’t the reason most of us when independent so we don’t have to deal with stupid notions of how much to produce this year to justify my job…

Interesting insight… in that case why ever leave Jones?  Paid assistant.  Nice advisory program.  Trips.  Office paid for.  Good name on the street.  LP. Profit Sharing. 

Seems like a good “work/life” balance to me.

Hey … Ron … that’s extreme. Single most ridiculous post ever?  LOL. A little perspective here, folks.

Find a post more illogical then saying EJ is better than Indy.

[quote=chief123]Ok… Squash is kind of creepy, but that guy seemed to be full of sh*t too…I love how we still measure our penis by production and number of assistants…Really?? So all of a sudden producing $250K taking home $225 before taxes and expenses is a bad thing? maybe i should pay somebody another $40K to answer a phone and greet people(retards do that at walmart… )

[quote=Moraen]

Interesting insight… in that case why ever leave Jones?  Paid assistant.  Nice advisory program.  Trips.  Office paid for.  Good name on the street.  LP. Profit Sharing. 

Seems like a good “work/life” balance to me.

btw: I’m not defending Jones but if your goal is a good life/work
balance they provide it.  If your goal is to own something. Make more
money.  Offer different products.  Indy provides it.

Jones provides a great work / life balance

You don’t have the worries of business ownership
Insurance is provided
Assistant is provided
No boss
You choose the dress code
Trips or cash if you earn them
LP if you want to buy it
401k
Ability to anuitize your business
Your own office
Solid brand
Training
Research
Family focused (after production of course)

Soooo if the goal of going Indy is life/work balance you are idiots.  I’m going indy for a VERY different reason.

You guys are pathetic.

[quote=hotair1]btw: I’m not defending Jones but if your goal is a good life/work
balance they provide it.  If your goal is to own something. Make more
money.  Offer different products.  Indy provides it.

Jones provides a great work / life balance

You don’t have the worries of business ownership (Agree 100%)
Insurance is provided (I pay less as an independent)
Assistant is provided (Low standards for assistants - most BOAs suck)
No boss (Who the hell are you kidding?)
You choose the dress code (See above)
Trips or cash if you earn them (This is a weak argument - Indy’s go on trips all of the time - and we don’t pay taxes on them.  In some cases, we can even write them off)
LP if you want to buy it (Limited ownership or total ownership - You choose)
401k (Seriously?  Somebody provides you a 401k and that’s good?  I have a great plan, but I can put more away than you can)
Ability to anuitize your business (Now you do - and at what cost?)
Your own office (Whose office?)
Solid brand (There are arguments either way for this, but it is a more solid brand than being indy for sure)
Training (Good training for sure)
Research (You have GOT to be kidding, right?  What research)
Family focused (after production of course) (Cult focused.  They are focused on getting your family to buy into the Jones life, so that it will make it harder for you to leave.  Thank God my wife is brilliant)

Soooo if the goal of going Indy is life/work balance you are idiots.  I’m going indy for a VERY different reason.

You guys are pathetic.
[/quote]

Like I said, I left for very different reasons.  You are still a slave to Jones way of doing things and you aren’t compensated nearly enough (IMHO) for your work.

[quote=Moraen]

[quote=hotair1]btw: I’m not defending Jones but if your goal is a good life/work
balance they provide it.  If your goal is to own something. Make more
money.  Offer different products.  Indy provides it.

Jones provides a great work / life balance

You don’t have the worries of business ownership (Agree 100%)
Insurance is provided (I pay less as an independent) - Debatable for everyone
Assistant is provided (Low standards for assistants - most BOAs suck) - Not mine
No boss (Who the hell are you kidding?) - Production standards are your boss at Jones.
You choose the dress code (See above)
Trips or cash if you earn them (This is a weak argument - Indy’s go on trips all of the time - and we don’t pay taxes on them.  In some cases, we can even write them off) - You do pay taxes on your trips unless you are using MUNI income to fund them + plus you pay for them. 
LP if you want to buy it (Limited ownership or total ownership - You choose) That’s what I said?
401k (Seriously?  Somebody provides you a 401k and that’s good?  I have a great plan, but I can put more away than you can) - want a cookie?
Ability to anuitize your business (Now you do - and at what cost?) - always have in my case
Your own office (Whose office?) - your forgetting the argument.  work/life
Solid brand (There are arguments either way for this, but it is a more solid brand than being indy for sure) - Investors respect Jones.  Advisors here might not but who cares - they are not potential clients.
Training (Good training for sure)
Research (You have GOT to be kidding, right?  What research) - work/life balance?
Family focused (after production of course) (Cult focused.  They are focused on getting your family to buy into the Jones life, so that it will make it harder for you to leave.  Thank God my wife is brilliant) - I don’t get a cult feel. Maybe you did.

Soooo if the goal of going Indy is life/work balance you are idiots.  I’m going indy for a VERY different reason.

You guys are pathetic.
[/quote]

Like I said, I left for very different reasons.  You are still a slave to Jones way of doing things and you aren’t compensated nearly enough (IMHO) for your work.
[/quote]



Please note we are talking about work/life balance.

[quote=hotair1]

[quote=Moraen]

[quote=hotair1]btw: I’m not defending Jones but if your goal is a good life/work
balance they provide it.  If your goal is to own something. Make more
money.  Offer different products.  Indy provides it.

Jones provides a great work / life balance

You don’t have the worries of business ownership (Agree 100%)
Insurance is provided (I pay less as an independent) - Debatable for everyone (If you are unhealthy, that is your issue, but because I am healthier, I don’t have the fat ass Jones guys bringing my premiums up)
Assistant is provided (Low standards for assistants - most BOAs suck) - Not mine (Like I said, most)
No boss (Who the hell are you kidding?) - Production standards are your boss at Jones. (Really, can you write covered calls at Jones?  If you are a Segment 2, can you avoid regional meetings?)
You choose the dress code (See above)
Trips or cash if you earn them (This is a weak argument - Indy’s go on trips all of the time - and we don’t pay taxes on them.  In some cases, we can even write them off) - You do pay taxes on your trips unless you are using MUNI income to fund them + plus you pay for them.  (I don’t pay taxes on my trips - the money used by the firm to pay for them are considered business expenses - it is a business function.  A retreat for the officers of the company - Tax write off)
LP if you want to buy it (Limited ownership or total ownership - You choose) That’s what I said? (LP is really not the same as owning anything - but whatever)
401k (Seriously?  Somebody provides you a 401k and that’s good?  I have a great plan, but I can put more away than you can) - want a cookie? (I don’t need a cookie, I can put away five times what a Jones person can - reduce my taxable income and pay myself more)
Ability to anuitize your business (Now you do - and at what cost?) - always have in my case (I forgot to say, “It’s not your business”)
Your own office (Whose office?) - your forgetting the argument.  work/life (Not forgetting the argument - if you use having your own office as an argument, then it has nothing to do with work/life balance, but everything to do with “perks”.  I have my own office, and if I decide to change custodians, I don’t have to vacate it.
Solid brand (There are arguments either way for this, but it is a more solid brand than being indy for sure) - Investors respect Jones.  Advisors here might not but who cares - they are not potential clients. (Some investors respect Jones.  When I was at Jones, most people didn’t know the difference between EJ and AGE - those that did knew that Jones catered to people with average HH of $50k)
Training (Good training for sure)
Research (You have GOT to be kidding, right?  What research) - work/life balance? (You can get better research a lot cheaper than for what you pay at Jones and not have to do it yourself)
Family focused (after production of course) (Cult focused.  They are focused on getting your family to buy into the Jones life, so that it will make it harder for you to leave.  Thank God my wife is brilliant) - I don’t get a cult feel. Maybe you did. (True, not everyone gets that feel)

Soooo if the goal of going Indy is life/work balance you are idiots.  I’m going indy for a VERY different reason.

You guys are pathetic.
[/quote]

Like I said, I left for very different reasons.  You are still a slave to Jones way of doing things and you aren’t compensated nearly enough (IMHO) for your work.
[/quote]



Please note we are talking about work/life balance.
[/quote]

I get that we’re talking about work/life balance.  My work/life balance is so much better now.  But some of the thing you brought up have nothing to do with work/life balance. 

With respect to trips, you pay taxes on them.  Twice.  Jones trips, we pay taxes once. It’s a silly point but you guys love to play that card and its dead wrong.  I personally look forward to paying tax twice on my trips.

[quote=hotair1]With respect to trips, you pay taxes on them.  Twice.  Jones trips, we pay taxes once. It’s a silly point but you guys love to play that card and its dead wrong.  I personally look forward to paying tax twice on my trips.

[/quote]

I think you need to explain that one.  How am I paying taxes twice on my trips exactly?

My wife and I book a trip to Prague as a “corporate officers retreat”.  Let’s say it costs $5000 (which is about what it was).  It is paid out of the business account.

I’ve reduced my business income by $5000.  Where is the tax?

It is not considered a vacation.  It is a working trip. 

So far, I haven’t been taxed.  Explain.

[quote=Moraen]

[quote=hotair1]With respect to trips, you pay taxes on them.  Twice.  Jones trips, we pay taxes once. It’s a silly point but you guys love to play that card and its dead wrong.  I personally look forward to paying tax twice on my trips.

[/quote]

I think you need to explain that one.  How am I paying taxes twice on my trips exactly?

My wife and I book a trip to Prague as a “corporate officers retreat”.  Let’s say it costs $5000 (which is about what it was).  It is paid out of the business account.

I’ve reduced my business income by $5000.  Where is the tax?

It is not considered a vacation.  It is a working trip. 

So far, I haven’t been taxed.  Explain.


[/quote]

That might work from time to time but let’s be honest you are not taking an international trip and writing it off like that or even the majority of your trips.  The IRS is strict about that.  You also pay sales tax, baggage fees, hotel taxes, etc. - all of which Jones people don’t pay.   Hence you are taxed twice.  ALSO - YOU ARE PAYING FOR THOSE OUT OF YOUR POCKETS.  Sure, I pay for them through lower payouts but I can also take a CHECK if I don’t want to trip.

I just hear indy guys bang that drum all the time and I think its bogus.

Here’s the bottom line with working at Jones…



First, don’t compare the first 3 years to working independently. Jones is a great place to start for all the reasons listed in some post above. Most people can’t start indy from scratch, so you really have to start with year 3 at minimum (more likely year 5) as a comparison.

Second, Jones (IMHO) is one of the best places to be for people that will NEVER (as in N-E-V-E-R) go independent, and don’t need to fish upstream for $1mm+ clients. Doesn’t matter their reason (complacent, comfortable, no interest in owning business, whatever).

WHY? Wirefirms are not well suited for smaller producers and people that cater to lower net worth individuals. Some people can do very, very well servicing 700+ households at 100K average, and be very, very happy. Jones will leave you alone, you can make a few hundred thousand, and you can have a very simple work day.

Now, can you swim upstream? Yes. However, I have only seen select Jones FA’s that have been very successful at it, and it’s usually after being in the business for decades. However, the wirehouses (and successful indy/RIA forms) really have corner on that market in most metro areas.

Also, Jones, as said above, is really the “bee’s knees” (to quote a Geico commercial) when it comes to rural areas for obvious reasons.



So, I think the underlying problem with the whole Jones vs. Indy debate is that most people that decide to go indy don’t want to follow that path (above) of 700+ households. Most are happy with servicing 50-250 of their best clients and getting a great payout for it, and having a simple way of life.



I don’t really think there should be a big debate, as both channels have their merits. Some guys at Jones will always be perfectly content where they are, doing what they are doing.

The IRS is strict within certain limits.  But do you think the GPs pay for their trips.  The partnership pays for their trips.  And guess what?  They are not taxed on them.  Producing GPs maybe, but not HO GPs. 

For instance, if Jim Weddle is going to speak to the FAs in Sydney Austrailia, do you really think that that isn’t a tax write-off and that he is paying for it?

He’s not.

All of the things you are talking about, are paid through the business and are thus deductions.  So anything I pay in sales tax is a reduction of my taxable income and so is offset. 

Jones people pay taxes on the trip though.  Also, the cash you can receive is significantly less than the value of the trip. 

Us indy guys can beat the drum because it’s true.

Since opening up, EVERY trip we have taken has been a retreat.  My wife is co-owner and we do discuss business.  In fact, some business is conducted.  We do team-building exercises (ziplining through jungles, climbing mountains).  All things which corporations are allowed as expenses. 

Now, when we take our child, the child’s expenses are NOT tax deductible.  But really, if she’s staying in our room, the only real expense is the plane ticket.  Which, correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t you have to pay for additional rooms and tickets for a certain number of children?

Look, the trips are NOT the perk Jones people make them out to be.  Like I said, my trips are tax deductible.  There is absolutely no justification for NOT allowing me to write them off when corporations are allowed to do it all of the time. 

Morean,



I totally agree with you. However, if you ever got audited, I would bet a C-note that the auditor would get you for violating the spirit of the law. If they actually looked at your business, and saw that it was a husband-and-wife team, and they were the only employees on the trip, and you deducted it, I could almost guarantee it would be rejected.



I believe they would tell you it is deductible to the business, but taxable to you as individuals. Therefore, no real tax deduction.

I'm just curious - what is it about Jones that gets people so fired up? I don't know anybody who works for EDJ. But i have never seen a company stir up so much controversy and debate than Jones. Why is that.

[quote=Sportsfreakbob]

I’m just curious - what is it about Jones that gets people so fired up? I don’t know anybody who works for EDJ. But i have never seen a company stir up so much controversy and debate than Jones. Why is that.

You need to go back and re-read my friend.  No Jone’s guy got fired up … just a bunch of ex-Jones haters with 5th grade reading comprehension. 

My point is that if the reason you went Indy was work/life balance and you left Jones to do that you probably didn’t achieve your goal.  Note I said, probably. Jone’s is a sweet gig after a few years if your goal is a work/life balance.

[quote=hotair1] You need to go back and re-read my friend.  No Jone’s guy got fired up … just a bunch of ex-Jones haters with 5th grade reading comprehension. 

My point is that if the reason you went Indy was work/life balance and you left Jones to do that you probably didn’t achieve your goal.  Note I said, probably. Jone’s is a sweet gig after a few years if your goal is a work/life balance.

Bob,

I think Jones only stirs up controversy on these boards because so many former Jones FA’s are now indy, and it’s natural to see the weaknesses in a business model once you are gone. Many Jones FA’s have no idea what it is like outside “The Firm”, other than what they are told by GP’s (certainly not a biased viewpoint ).

Part of this is because Jones’ model is sort of the closest thing to the feel of being independent, without actually being independent (strictly because of the physical setup of their model), so it seems easier to compare Jones to being indy versus wirehouse to indy. Also, it’s easier for a relatively new Jones FA to see how to run an independent practice versus a wirehouse newby, since so much is done for you at a wirehouse behind the scenes. For example, despite what some say, I can reconcile down to the penny where all my money goes in my office P&L. I know exactly what it would cost to run my own practice. If I were 4 years in at Merrill, I would probably have no access to that info. Once you see all that, you begin to realize that running a practice is no different than running any other business. You just have to worry about revenues and expenses.

Does that make sense?



As far as the doorknocking question…most FA’s doorknock at Jones in the beginning for lack of knowing any other method. I only doorknocked heavily for about 6 months. After that, things just started to take off in other directions, and I figure out what I was doing. Truthfully, the whole doorknocking thing is overblown. Only relative newbies doorknock (and a few insane FA’s that actually like it) to get their business started. Most stop after 6 months to a year. Most stop within 2 years. That’s a blip on the screen of a career. But since most Jones FA’s on this site, as well as most indy’s that came from Jones (after just a few years at Jones) have doorknocking fresh in their minds, it gets a lot of press on these threads.

[quote=B24]Morean,



I totally agree with you. However, if you ever got audited, I would bet a C-note that the auditor would get you for violating the spirit of the law. If they actually looked at your business, and saw that it was a husband-and-wife team, and they were the only employees on the trip, and you deducted it, I could almost guarantee it would be rejected.



I believe they would tell you it is deductible to the business, but taxable to you as individuals. Therefore, no real tax deduction.[/quote]

I’ll take that bet.  My accountant is a former IRS auditor.  I was going to make it taxable to us as a couple, but was told I didn’t have to.  They would have to change tax law for everybody, if they did that to us.

As for hotair’s supposition that us ex-Jonesers have a 5th grade education… I think that’s a little harsh.  If you look at the list of reasons you gave for work/life balance, most of them don’t contribute to a work/life balance. 

I took you point for point and agreed with you on some things. 

You put “training” on a post about work/life balance.  How is that related to work/life balance.

Regardless, Jones is a good company.  There is good work/life balance there, but I believe it is better as an independent.

Moraen, I hope you’re right (RE: taxes). It just surprises me that it would pass the “smell-test.” He would know better than me, though.

[quote=Moraen]

[quote=B24]Morean,



I totally agree with you. However, if you ever got audited, I would bet a C-note that the auditor would get you for violating the spirit of the law. If they actually looked at your business, and saw that it was a husband-and-wife team, and they were the only employees on the trip, and you deducted it, I could almost guarantee it would be rejected.



I believe they would tell you it is deductible to the business, but taxable to you as individuals. Therefore, no real tax deduction.[/quote]

I’ll take that bet.  My accountant is a former IRS auditor.  I was going to make it taxable to us as a couple, but was told I didn’t have to.  They would have to change tax law for everybody, if they did that to us.


[/quote]

Liar

[quote=DD]

[quote=Moraen]

[quote=B24]Morean,



I totally agree with you. However, if you ever got audited, I would bet a C-note that the auditor would get you for violating the spirit of the law. If they actually looked at your business, and saw that it was a husband-and-wife team, and they were the only employees on the trip, and you deducted it, I could almost guarantee it would be rejected.



I believe they would tell you it is deductible to the business, but taxable to you as individuals. Therefore, no real tax deduction.[/quote]

I’ll take that bet.  My accountant is a former IRS auditor.  I was going to make it taxable to us as a couple, but was told I didn’t have to.  They would have to change tax law for everybody, if they did that to us.


[/quote]

Liar
[/quote]

Oh, hey DD.  I guess you don’t live on the east coast.  Would have been a pain to get to the library.

I’m just curious - what is it about Jones that gets people so fired up? I don’t know anybody who works for EDJ. But i have never seen a company stir up so much controversy and debate than Jones. Why is that.

It is a shame that what starts out as a good educational discussion turns into another discussion on Jones.