Money managers

Go away.

Having a bad day today Mr. Morphius?  Maybe if you tell me about it I can help?

Dear Dr. Max,


I appreciate your concern for my feelings. 


If simple ignorance is your issue, and you really are completely unaware of the widely used practice of using outside money managers in SMAs or similar, you can learn a lot simply by using the search function and/or googling it. 

But I answered as I did not because I thought you were ignorant, but because you sound like yet another vendor trolling for business under the guise of being an advisor asking questions.  Privilege?  Performance premium?  Advisors don’t use those terms - asset managers do.  You folks?  As in, you’re not one of us?

A new username, with a few posts, all addressing the same topic usually equals an undercover vendor, and we’ve been getting a number of them here lately.  To you and them I say again: be upfront about your agenda and contribute beyond just trying to sell your product or service, or go away.

But thanks for worrying about me.  I feel better already. 

Max, we have another occassional poster on here (AdvisorControl - Jason) who was very up front about what he does and what he is trying to accomplish.  We actually like reading what he has to say.  As Morph said, most of us appreciate people being up front about their intentions.  If we are interested in what you are selling, we’ll tell you.

Good on ya Morph! 

Mr. Morphius, you are a paranoid fool.  My IA certification was approved by the state of CA on June 25.  I’ll probably be open for business in Spring of 2011.  Pardon me for using words like premium and folks.  Nobody’s perfect.  I’m a long time investor and asset management is where I excel.  I would prefer to provide my services to other financial professionals because I want to deal with people that can understand what it is I’m doing for them.  I’m not a hand holder and most of the “work” IAs do for retail clients I would find tedious. 

My question was an attempt on my part to get a feel for what other advisers would be willing to pay for a particular level of performance.  I’m sorry I asked.  I thought I had found a place where I could exchange ideas with people who share my interests and concerns.  I guess I was wrong.

Privilege?  Performance premium?  Advisors don’t use those terms - asset managers do.  You folks?  As in, you’re not one of us?


What a hoot! 

[quote=max]Mr. Morphius, you are a paranoid fool.  My IA certification was approved by the state of CA on June 25.  I’ll probably be open for business in Spring of 2011.  Pardon me for using words like premium and folks.  Nobody’s perfect.  I’m a long time investor and asset management is where I excel.  I would prefer to provide my services to other financial professionals because I want to deal with people that can understand what it is I’m doing for them.  I’m not a hand holder and most of the “work” IAs do for retail clients I would find tedious. 

My question was an attempt on my part to get a feel for what other advisers would be willing to pay for a particular level of performance.  I’m sorry I asked.  I thought I had found a place where I could exchange ideas with people who share my interests and concerns.  I guess I was wrong.
[/quote]

Wow.  An honest-to-goodness state certified IA!  How exciting!! I’m sorry for assuming you were an undercover vendor, when all along you were really just completely ignorant of how the business even works.  And how impressive that despite that ignorance you opt to start calling people names who
could help them if they so chose.  Hope that strategy works well for you.

If I weren’t such a “paranoid fool” I might be more inclined to warn you about the many obvious red flags waving madly with your every utterance, or the train wreck waiting for you just around the bend if you actually try to make a living at this with your current misconceptions and inexperience.   But being a “long time investor” who “excels” in asset management, it would no doubt be too “tedious” for you.  It sounds like you would prefer to screw up in real life rather than suffer the embarrassment of being corrected on an anonymous forum where the only thing you hurt is your ego.

Ignorance is no crime, but when you combine ignorance with arrogance and name calling,  you have only yourself to blame if the results are not what you hoped.



Good luck, maxy.  I think you’re going to need it.

What is your problem morphius?  I posted a sincere question and I’m greeted by you with a presumptuous “go away” and then an uninformed assessment of my chances for success.  You are condescending and ridiculous.  If everyone here is like you then this forum is a waste of time.  I’m sorry I intruded onto your turf.  Good  luck with your biz. 

Max,

[quote=max]What is your problem morphius?  I posted a sincere question and I’m greeted by you with a presumptuous “go away” [/quote]
You can be both sincere and ignorant.  They are not
mutually exclusive. 

Max, your question showed such a complete and utter
lack of understanding of basic business practices in the industry that
I presumed you were yet another troll. It turns out that you were simply totally clueless.  Sorry for assuming that anyone who posted on a forum for financial professionals could never be that ignorant, and that you must therefore be another vendor troll. 

[quote=max] and then an uninformed assessment of my chances for success.  [/quote]
You don’t even know what you don’t know.  You have little understanding of how the business works, zero experience in managing money for others, and you call people names who speak honestly to you.  How much more information do you suppose one would need to negatively assess your chances for success?

[quote=max]You are condescending and ridiculous.  [/quote]
I can be both condescending and honest, without being ridiculous.  Regardless, I actually answered your question already, remember?:
[quote=Morphius]
If simple ignorance is your issue, and you really are completely
unaware of the widely used practice of using outside money managers in
SMAs or similar, you can learn a lot simply by using the search
function and/or googling it.  [/quote]
What did you learn when you used the search/google option?

Read my original question carefully.  I sought the opinions of the people who post to this forum.  How would a web search provide me with that?  I know about SMAs and I have a pretty could idea how the fees break down.  But that wasn’t my question.  I thought someone here might have something of value to add to what  I already know.  Apparently not.  

Do any of you folks pay outside money managers to manage client assets?  If so, what do you pay for the privilege?  What performance premium do you require to justify the cost?

What’s your story Morphius?  Are you an RIA?  Do you operate your own business?  Do you actually have clients and assets under management?  What’s the  name of your company?  I’d like to look up your ADV on the Public Disclosure site.  You do have an ADV don’t you?  My guess is you’re a wannabe adviser living in your mommy’s basement and drive an ice ceam truck for a little extra cash to keep supplied with meth.  I could be wrong, but not likely.  

Can you answer my original question Jaxon or do you drive an ice cream truck too?

[quote=max]What’s your story Morphius?  Are you an RIA?  Do you operate your own business?  Do you actually have clients and assets under management?  What’s the  name of your company?  I’d like to look up your ADV on the Public Disclosure site.  You do have an ADV don’t you?  My guess is you’re a wannabe adviser living in your mommy’s basement and drive an ice ceam truck for a little extra cash to keep supplied with meth.  I could be wrong, but not likely.  
[/quote]
This gets better and better!    Now you want to act tough and start calling people out!       And since you refuse to search for what you want to learn, you’ll never know my story, as I have better things to do than do your work for you.  Like ridiculing you!

Not sure which is more funny: the fact that you think anyone would pay you anything to manage money on the strength of your being “a long time investor,” or that you think being certified by CA as an IA means anything at all! 

But wait!!  There’s more!!!  

You’ll “probably” be open for business in the Spring of 2011!!  Only a couple more years!! That means for the next couple of years, until you probably open your doors with all those professionals clamoring to pay you to manage their clients’ money so that you don’t have to deal with the tedium of explaining your genius to the actual clients, you’ll do what?  Continue pretending to be a professional by posting stupid questions on forums for professionals?

What was I thinking when I said you were clueless and ignorant?!  I should have said ignorant and clueless!  My mistake! 

Keep the dream alive, max … hit the snooze button again!! 

Can you answer my original question Jaxon or do you drive an ice cream truck too?

[quote=max]What’s your story Morphius?  Are you an RIA?  Do you operate your own business?  Do you actually have clients and assets under management?  What’s the  name of your company?  I’d like to look up your ADV on the Public Disclosure site.  You do have an ADV don’t you?  My guess is you’re a wannabe adviser living in your mommy’s basement and drive an ice ceam truck for a little extra cash to keep supplied with meth.  I could be wrong, but not likely.  
[/quote]

Owned.

[quote=max]Do any of you folks pay outside money managers to manage client assets?  If so, what do you pay for the privilege?  What performance premium do you require to justify the cost?

[quote=CALI123]Ummm Max (DHK) if your skin isn’t thick enough for a message board then you will get eaten alive in 2011.

I think I’m getting the picture here.  Is it fair to say that most of
the people posting here in the Advisor Forum are actually brokers reps
not advisor reps?  That would explain the edgy combative attitudes
common here.  I noticed that when I was preparing for the series 65
and looking for exam related info on this site.  Many of the posters seemed
hostile and bitter.  Either the brokerage biz engenders those attitudes
or such people are attracted to the biz.  Which do you suppose is true?  Oh well, never mind. 

[quote=iceco1d]Wow.  Another post illustrating that you are a complete moron. 

Max, I really try to give people the benefit of the doubt.  Unfortunately, this last post of yours has completely backed up iceco1d’s post.

I’m curious, how do all of you “dually licensed” reps make the transition from snake oil salesman broker’s rep ripping off old ladies and senile widowers to service oriented adviser and fiduciary? 

[quote=max]
I’m curious, how do all of you “dually licensed” reps make the transition from snake oil salesman broker’s rep ripping off old ladies and senile widowers to service oriented adviser and fiduciary?  What’s the process, how is it done?  Or do you ever make the transition? [/quote]
Let’s recap a minute here maxy, shall we?

You “excel” at asset management as an individual investor, but have zero experience in the industry, and yet you naively espouse silly uninformed stereotypes about “snake oil salesman broker’s rep ripping off old ladies and senile widowers.”  You want to target your services to these "snake oil salesmen"
because you prefer to “deal with people that can understand what it is I’m
doing for them” and because “most of the ‘work’ IAs do
for retail clients I would find tedious.” 

Your real problem is not your lack of experience and understanding since we all were, at one point, inexperienced and ignorant.  Those shortcomings can be easily overcome if one recognizes their own ignorance and is sufficiently motivated to do whatever necessary to overcome it. 

Your real problem, to paraphrase Ronald Reagan’s classic line about liberals, isn’t that you are ignorant, it’s just that you know so much that isn’t so. 

You have somehow accepted as fact so much about this industry, it’s players, and how it functions that just isn’t so, and then based on this foundation of misunderstanding you have constructed your plans and dreams.  

Ethics are not a function of what form of compensation or title an advisor has.  Ethics are a function of the individual’s character.  You can’t legislate morality or ethics.  And I say that as an RIA who according to these simplistic stereotypes is supposedly by definition ethical beyond reproach. 

Now comes your real moment of truth.  You can continue to write us all off as bitter snake oil salesmen without ethics, or you can park your ego long enough to admit that you just might be able to learn a thing or two from the people who are actually doing what you only dream of doing. 

It’s up to you.  It won’t matter one way or the other to us, but it could matter a great deal to you. 

[quote=anonymous]Max, I really try to give people the benefit of the doubt.  Unfortunately, this last post of yours has completely backed up iceco1d’s post.

[quote=Morphius]

[quote=max]
I’m curious, how do all of you “dually licensed” reps make the transition from snake oil salesman broker’s rep ripping off old ladies and senile widowers to service oriented adviser and fiduciary?  What’s the process, how is it done?  Or do you ever make the transition? [/quote]
Let’s recap a minute here maxy, shall we?

You “excel” at asset management as an individual investor, but have zero experience in the industry, and yet you naively espouse silly uninformed stereotypes about “snake oil salesman broker’s rep ripping off old ladies and senile widowers.”  You want to target your services to these "snake oil salesmen"
because you prefer to “deal with people that can understand what it is I’m
doing for them” and because “most of the ‘work’ IAs do
for retail clients I would find tedious.” 

Your real problem is not your lack of experience and understanding since we all were, at one point, inexperienced and ignorant.  Those shortcomings can be easily overcome if one recognizes their own ignorance and is sufficiently motivated to do whatever necessary to overcome it. 

Your real problem, to paraphrase Ronald Reagan’s classic line about liberals, isn’t that you are ignorant, it’s just that you know so much that isn’t so. 

You have somehow accepted as fact so much about this industry, it’s players, and how it functions that just isn’t so, and then based on this foundation of misunderstanding you have constructed your plans and dreams.  

Ethics are not a function of what form of compensation or title an advisor has.  Ethics are a function of the individual’s character.  You can’t legislate morality or ethics.  And I say that as an RIA who according to these simplistic stereotypes is supposedly by definition ethical beyond reproach. 

Now comes your real moment of truth.  You can continue to write us all off as bitter snake oil salesmen without ethics, or you can park your ego long enough to admit that you just might be able to learn a thing or two from the people who are actually doing what you only dream of doing. 

It’s up to you.  It won’t matter one way or the other to us, but it could matter a great deal to you. 



[/quote]

I don’t intend to target reps.  I would manage money for advisers. 

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are registered.  A stupid person cannot pass the series 7 or 65 exam.  Therefore, you are not stupid.  You cannot believe that a salesman is just as likely as a fiduciary to place the customers interests before his own.

I don’t dream of doing what you are doing Morphius.  I usually succeed not because I strive to imitate others, I succeed because I think outside the box and live my own dream.

Morphius, you wrote me off after my first post, without cause, so I wrote you off.  Since then I’ve just been jerking your chain because it’s so easy to do.  I realized I wasn’t going to obtain any insights about the biz here so I thought there might be some entertainment value, and there was.   

[quote=max] [quote=anonymous]Max, I really try to give people the benefit of the doubt.  Unfortunately, this last post of yours has completely backed up iceco1d’s post.

[quote=B24][quote=max] [quote=anonymous]Max, I really try to give people the benefit of the doubt.  Unfortunately, this last post of yours has completely backed up iceco1d’s post.

[quote=anonymous]Max, I really try to give people the benefit of the doubt.  Unfortunately, this last post of yours has completely backed up iceco1d’s post.

Walk away for a day and look what happens.



Why are you waiting until 2011? I believe I set up my RIA in about 6 weeks. I’m not sure why that would take you so long.



So, how will you be compensated? Flat fee? Percentage of assets under management? Percentage of profits? Both percentage of profits and assets under management? Will you use watermarks? How high will yours be?



By the way - Morphius regularly contributes on this forum and has good information. His posts have impeccable spelling and grammar and usually when he finds a piker, he nails them to the wall. You have proven that you think you know everything (much like everybody who ever starts in our line of work).

[quote=max]

[quote=anonymous]Max, I really try to give people the benefit of the doubt.  Unfortunately, this last post of yours has completely backed up iceco1d’s post.

There’s entertainment value to your posts all right, maxy, but it’s from watching you pretend you are not as clueless you have already proven yourself to be.  Please educate us some more about the industry we work in so we might learn: are the good guys the ones wearing the white hats or the black hats?  It’s so hard for us snake oil salesmen to keep that straight. 

And while you’re inexplicably biding your time over the next two years before gracing the investment world with your unique expertise and ethics, why don’t you talk with some of the NASCAR teams about outsourcing their driving to you?   They may be hesitant until you clarify for them that the state of CA has certified you to drive a car and that you have excelled at driving your own car for a long time.  Once you explain that, I’m sure they will be lining up for the privilege of outsourcing the driving to you. 

[quote=Moraen]Walk away for a day and look what happens.



Why are you waiting until 2011? I believe I set up my RIA in about 6 weeks. I’m not sure why that would take you so long.



So, how will you be compensated? Flat fee? Percentage of assets under management? Percentage of profits? Both percentage of profits and assets under management? Will you use watermarks? How high will yours be?



By the way - Morphius regularly contributes on this forum and has good information. His posts have impeccable spelling and grammar and usually when he finds a piker, he nails them to the wall. You have proven that you think you know everything (much like everybody who ever starts in our line of work).



[/quote]

My registration became effective June 25.  I want at least a year to compile a performance record before I offer my services to a nonpro and 3 to 5 years before offering to a pro.  Besides that, I’d like to take some time to get up to speed on the business management aspects of an advisory biz.  Because I will be offering performance to distinguish myself from other advisers, a track record is essential.

Percentage of AUM.

I’ve never claimed to know much at all about “your biz”.  I don’t know how you could infer that I thought I do.  I came here to learn something about the nuts and bolts of the industry as it’s practiced today and was told to go away.

I don’t care that morphius has good grammar.  I still think he’s a presumptuous ***hole.

[quote=DHK]

[quote=max]

[quote=anonymous]Max, I really try to give people the benefit of the doubt.  Unfortunately, this last post of yours has completely backed up iceco1d’s post.

[quote=max]

[quote=DHK]

[quote=max]

[quote=anonymous]Max, I really try to give people the benefit of the doubt.  Unfortunately, this last post of yours has completely backed up iceco1d’s post.

[quote=max]

[quote=Moraen]Walk away for a day and look what happens.



Why are you waiting until 2011? I believe I set up my RIA in about 6 weeks. I’m not sure why that would take you so long.



So, how will you be compensated? Flat fee? Percentage of assets under management? Percentage of profits? Both percentage of profits and assets under management? Will you use watermarks? How high will yours be?



By the way - Morphius regularly contributes on this forum and has good information. His posts have impeccable spelling and grammar and usually when he finds a piker, he nails them to the wall. You have proven that you think you know everything (much like everybody who ever starts in our line of work).



[/quote]My registration became effective June 25. I want at least a year to compile a performance record before I offer my services to a nonpro and 3 to 5 years before offering to a pro. Besides that, I’d like to take some time to get up to speed on the business management aspects of an advisory biz. Because I will be offering performance to distinguish myself from other advisers, a track record is essential.Percentage of AUM.I’ve never claimed to know much at all about “your biz”. I don’t know how you could infer that I thought I do. I came here to learn something about the nuts and bolts of the industry as it’s practiced today and was told to go away.I don’t care that morphius has good grammar. I still think he’s a presumptuous ***hole.[/quote]



Max - what standards are you using to compile your performance record?



By the way, a one year track record doesn’t distinguish you. Or two years for that matter.



And, does the fact that you are going to be “managing money” mean that you won’t be doing what us “typical advisors do”? And if so, how does that differ from the fact that at some point you will be wanting us to refer business to you? And if so, how is Morphius’ inference that you are here trying to peddle your wares in preparation of your “grand opening” wrong?

DHK, I suppose that everyone on the planet is a salesman in the sense that we all represent that we have something of value to offer.  But, a fee based adviser doesn’t depend on product sales to generate revenue, a commission based rep does.  Why do you think there are regs against churning?  Because salesmen have an incentive to place their own interests above the client’s.

Max has got to be a troll.  Nobody could be this stupid.  

[quote=Moraen] [quote=max]

[quote=Moraen]Walk away for a day and look what happens.



Why are you waiting until 2011? I believe I set up my RIA in about 6 weeks. I’m not sure why that would take you so long.



So, how will you be compensated? Flat fee? Percentage of assets under management? Percentage of profits? Both percentage of profits and assets under management? Will you use watermarks? How high will yours be?



By the way - Morphius regularly contributes on this forum and has good information. His posts have impeccable spelling and grammar and usually when he finds a piker, he nails them to the wall. You have proven that you think you know everything (much like everybody who ever starts in our line of work).



[/quote]My registration became effective June 25.  I want at least a year to compile a performance record before I offer my services to a nonpro and 3 to 5 years before offering to a pro.  Besides that, I’d like to take some time to get up to speed on the business management aspects of an advisory biz.  Because I will be offering performance to distinguish myself from other advisers, a track record is essential.Percentage of AUM.I’ve never claimed to know much at all about “your biz”.  I don’t know how you could infer that I thought I do.  I came here to learn something about the nuts and bolts of the industry as it’s practiced today and was told to go away.I don’t care that morphius has good grammar.  I still think he’s a presumptuous ***hole.[/quote]



Max - what standards are you using to compile your performance record?



By the way, a one year track record doesn’t distinguish you. Or two years for that matter.



And, does the fact that you are going to be “managing money” mean that you won’t be doing what us “typical advisors do”? And if so, how does that differ from the fact that at some point you will be wanting us to refer business to you? And if so, how is Morphius’ inference that you are here trying to peddle your wares in preparation of your “grand opening” wrong?[/quote]

Thank you for your intelligent and civil comments.  Could you be a little more specific regarding performance record standards?  I’m reading a good book titled “Measuring Invetment Performance” by David Spaulding.  I’ll get back to you on “standards” after I’ve finished it.

When I can demonstrate the ability to make a profit for a client in both bull and bear markets, I will distinguish myself and someone will be impressed whether the time frame is one year or two.

It never occurred to me to promote my business in this forum and Morphius drew that inference before he knew anything about me.  I posted here because this is the first board I’ve found where “advisers” interact.  But, it is reasonable for you to wonder about my motives and for that I bear you no malice.

Standards are not unified at the moment. Will you be using GIPS performance standards when you report your returns?



Max - since you are new to the forum - he drew that inference because what you were saying happens a lot - people peddle all kinds of crap on here.’

[quote=max]   I came here to learn something about the nuts and bolts of the industry as it’s practiced today and was told to go away.

I don’t care that morphius has good grammar.  I still think he’s a presumptuous ***hole.
[/quote]
Grow a pair, max.  This isn’t a business for the thin skinned.  You want a friend,  get a dog. 

You claim you want to learn about the nuts and bolts of the industry, but you are so busy defending your warped and uninformed assumptions that you refuse to even shut up long enough to actually listen.  Every time you open your mouth you insert your foot further.  Latest examples:

[quote=max] Could you be a little more specific regarding performance
record standards?  I’m reading a good book titled “Measuring Invetment
Performance” by David Spaulding.  I’ll get back to you on "standards"
after I’ve finished it.[/quote]
A track record that doesn’t strictly comply with very specific performance standards (GIPS) would be worthless for your purposes.  But since you are certified and have read so much I’m sure you knew that.

[quote=max]When
I can demonstrate the ability to make a profit for a client in both
bull and bear markets, I will distinguish myself and someone will be
impressed whether the time frame is one year or two.[/quote]
1. It would take you far longer than a couple of years to establish a track record in both bull and bear markets.
2. If you had the ability to consistently “make a profit” in both bull and bear markets, you would make so much money on your own that you have no need of clients.

At some point, max, you really need to look in the mirror and ask yourself this question: either I am right and everybody else who actually works in the industry is wrong, or maybe,  just maybe …

Morphius, you silly twit, I said I was reading a book on performance measurement.  Why would I be reading the book if I already knew what I needed to know about the subject?  I’m curious, If you do have clients, how have their portfolios done over the past two years?  What type of investment vehicles do you use for them?  Are you an ETF kind of guy, mutual funds, limited partnerships?  What would it be?  What has your research department been pumping lately?

Morphius, you silly twit, I said I was reading a book on performance measurement.  Why would I be reading the book if I already knew what I needed to know about the subject?  I’m curious, If you do have clients, how have their portfolios done over the past two years?  What type of investment vehicles do you use for them?  Are you an ETF kind of guy, mutual funds, limited partnerships?  What would it be?  What has your research department been pumping lately?

[quote=max]Morphius, you silly twit, I said I was reading a book on performance measurement.  Why would I be reading the book if I already knew what I needed to know about the subject?  I’m curious, If you do have clients, how have their portfolios done over the past two years?  What type of investment vehicles do you use for them?  Are you an ETF kind of guy, mutual funds, limited partnerships?  What would it be?  What has your research department been pumping lately?

[quote=Moraen]Standards are not unified at the moment. Will you be using GIPS performance standards when you report your returns?



Max - since you are new to the forum - he drew that inference because what you were saying happens a lot - people peddle all kinds of crap on here.’[/quote]

I’m taking a look at the GIPS site now.  I’ll get back to you on your question.  Thanks for your input.

[quote=max]Morphius, you silly twit, I said I was reading a book on performance measurement.  Why would I be reading the book if I already knew what I needed to know about the subject?  [/quote]
I guess for the same stupid reason you are determined to start a business without knowing anything about the subject.  

[quote=Morphius]

[quote=max]Morphius, you silly twit, I said I was reading a book on performance measurement.  Why would I be reading the book if I already knew what I needed to know about the subject?  [/quote]
I guess for the same stupid reason you are determined to start a business without knowing anything about the subject.  





[/quote]

[quote=Morphius]

[quote=max]Morphius, you silly twit, I said I was reading a book on performance measurement.  Why would I be reading the book if I already knew what I needed to know about the subject?  [/quote]
I guess for the same stupid reason you are determined to start a business without knowing anything about the subject.  





[/quote]

Max, how does it feel to be owned by a total retard?

[quote=DHK]

[quote=Morphius]

[quote=max]Morphius, you silly twit, I said I was reading a book on performance measurement.  Why would I be reading the book if I already knew what I needed to know about the subject?  [/quote]
I guess for the same stupid reason you are determined to start a business without knowing anything about the subject.  





[/quote]

Max, how does it feel to be owned by a total retard?
[/quote]

I’m sorry DHK, it must have been a long day because I don’t have the slightest idea what you’re talking about.  You seem totaly incoherent to me.  Owned, retard, how does it feel???  I feel like I’m back in junior high again.  I think I’m going to take a long weekend now.  You crazy kids try to stay out of trouble now, OK.   

[quote=max]
I’m sorry DHK, it must have been a long day because I don’t have the slightest idea what you’re talking about.  You seem totaly incoherent to me.  [/quote]
DHK/Bobby, how does it feel to be owned by a total amateur?

I think Bobby wants to be me.  I get more action than he does, and I've got a whole lot more money than him.

I’m taking a look at the GIPS site now.  I’ll get back to you on your question.  Thanks for your input.

[quote=max]But, a fee based adviser doesn’t depend on product sales to generate revenue, a commission based rep does.  Why do you think there are regs against churning?  Because salesmen have an incentive to place their own interests above the client’s.
[/quote]

That incentive does not solely reside in the commission-based world.  I have personally witnessed fiduciaries get too aggressive in retiree portfolios in the hopes of raising AUM through market growth.  The incentives are the same - to make more money - with either type of advisor.

[Quote] Because I will be offering performance to distinguish myself from other advisers, a track record is essential. [Quote]

[quote=Frank W. Abagnale]

I think Bobby wants to be me.  I get more action than he does, and I’ve got a whole lot more money than him.

Oh Tom… why are you impersonating DHK?

[quote=Frank W. Abagnale]Oh Tom… why are you impersonating my good friend?

I'm glad to notice that you're no longer with a B/D.  Following a trend of those who THINK to get away from FINRA?  What ever will you do if you can't sell a VA?  I suppose the investing public will be happier.

[quote=max]

I’m taking a look at the GIPS site now.  I’ll get back to you on your question.  Thanks for your input.

[quote=Frank W. Abagnale]

I’m glad to notice that you’re no longer with a B/D.  Following a trend of those who THINK to get away from FINRA?  What ever will you do if you can’t sell a VA?  I suppose the investing public will be happier.

[quote=etj4588]

[quote=max]But, a fee based adviser doesn’t depend on product sales to generate revenue, a commission based rep does.  Why do you think there are regs against churning?  Because salesmen have an incentive to place their own interests above the client’s.
[/quote]

That incentive does not solely reside in the commission-based world.  I have personally witnessed fiduciaries get too aggressive in retiree portfolios in the hopes of raising AUM through market growth.  The incentives are the same - to make more money - with either type of advisor.
[/quote]

I never said ALL advisers are ethical.  The incentives are not the same.  The fee based adviser can continue to receive revenue with a buy-and-hold approach and the salesman cannot.  It’s that simple.

[quote=Sportsfreakbob][Quote] Because I will be offering performance to distinguish myself from other advisers, a track record is essential. [Quote]

Resigning…?  I can’t believe I didn’t catch that before.

[quote=Frank W. Abagnale]Resigning…?  I can’t believe I didn’t catch that before.

[quote=Frank W. Abagnale]Thanks for the plug of my website!  You know that every time the name is mentioned, I get people to come over and join, right?

.

[quote=DHK]
I’ve got people that tell me everything that goes on on your site. [/quote]
At least he has something going on at his site to tell about.  Yours, on the other hand died a slow whimpering death and nobody even noticed.  Least of all you.

[quote=Morphius]

[quote=DHK]
I’ve got people that tell me everything that goes on on your site. [/quote]
At least he has something going on at his site to tell about.  Yours, on the other hand died a slow whimpering death and nobody even noticed.  Least of all you.
[/quote]


You’re next.

[quote=DHK] I’ve got people that tell me everything that goes on on your site.

[quote=Morphius] [quote=DHK] I’ve got people that tell me everything that goes on on your site. [/quote]
At least he has something going on at his site to tell about.  Yours, on the other hand died a slow whimpering death and nobody even noticed.  Least of all you.
[/quote]


You’re next.

[quote=etj4588] [quote=max]But, a fee based adviser doesn’t depend on product sales to generate revenue, a commission based rep does.  Why do you think there are regs against churning?  Because salesmen have an incentive to place their own interests above the client’s. [/quote]

That incentive does not solely reside in the commission-based world.  I have personally witnessed fiduciaries get too aggressive in retiree portfolios in the hopes of raising AUM through market growth.  The incentives are the same - to make more money - with either type of advisor.
[/quote]

I never said ALL advisers are ethical.  The incentives are not the same.  The fee based adviser can continue to receive revenue with a buy-and-hold approach and the salesman cannot.  It’s that simple.

[quote=DHK] [quote=Morphius] [quote=DHK] I’ve got people that tell me everything that goes on on your site. [/quote]
At least he has something going on at his site to tell about.  Yours, on the other hand died a slow whimpering death and nobody even noticed.  Least of all you.
[/quote]


You’re next.

I’m not Morphius.  Good guy (and a decent guess), but I’m not him.

"I never said ALL advisers are ethical.  The incentives are not the same.  The fee based adviser can continue to receive revenue with a buy-and-hold approach and the salesman cannot.  It's that simple."

Instead, you just implied that registered reps are snake oil salesmen and fee-based adviser's are fiduciaries who do what is in the best interest of the client because they are legally bound to do so.  You do realize that if an advisor is fee-based as opposed to fee-only, that means that they are able to earn commissions and are snake oil salesmen?

[quote=max] [quote=etj4588] [quote=max]But, a fee based adviser doesn’t depend on product sales to generate revenue, a commission based rep does.  Why do you think there are regs against churning?  Because salesmen have an incentive to place their own interests above the client’s. [/quote]

That incentive does not solely reside in the commission-based world.  I have personally witnessed fiduciaries get too aggressive in retiree portfolios in the hopes of raising AUM through market growth.  The incentives are the same - to make more money - with either type of advisor.
[/quote]

I never said ALL advisers are ethical.  The incentives are not the same.  The fee based adviser can continue to receive revenue with a buy-and-hold approach and the salesman cannot.  It’s that simple.

I never said a fee based adviser has no incentive to violate his fiduciary obligations.  Just less incentive than a salesman.

“I never said a fee based adviser has no incentive to violate his fiduciary obligations.  Just less incentive than a salesman.”

[quote=anonymous]

“I never said ALL advisers are ethical.  The incentives are not the same.  The fee based adviser can continue to receive revenue with a buy-and-hold approach and the salesman cannot.  It’s that simple.”

Instead, you just implied that registered reps are snake oil salesmen and fee-based adviser's are fiduciaries who do what is in the best interest of the client because they are legally bound to do so.  You do realize that if an advisor is fee-based as opposed to fee-only, that means that they are able to earn commissions and are snake oil salesmen?

[quote=anonymous]“I never said a fee based adviser has no incentive to violate his fiduciary obligations.  Just less incentive than a salesman.”

Do you know what fee-based means.

[quote=max]

[quote=max] [quote=etj4588] [quote=max]But, a fee based adviser doesn’t depend on product sales to generate revenue, a commission based rep does.  Why do you think there are regs against churning?  Because salesmen have an incentive to place their own interests above the client’s. [/quote]

That incentive does not solely reside in the commission-based world.  I have personally witnessed fiduciaries get too aggressive in retiree portfolios in the hopes of raising AUM through market growth.  The incentives are the same - to make more money - with either type of advisor.
[/quote]

I never said ALL advisers are ethical.  The incentives are not the same.  The fee based adviser can continue to receive revenue with a buy-and-hold approach and the salesman cannot.  It’s that simple.

[quote=anonymous]Do you know what fee-based means.

[quote=max] [quote=anonymous]Do you know what fee-based means.

An ethical non-fiduciary salesman is under no obligation to place the customer’s interests before his own.  A fiduciary is.  Why are you struggling with this?  I give up.

 "An ethical non-fiduciary salesman is under no obligation to place the customer's interests before his own.  A fiduciary is.  Why are you struggling with this?  I give up."

[quote=anonymous]

 “An ethical non-fiduciary salesman is under no obligation to place the customer’s interests before his own.  A fiduciary is.  Why are you struggling with this?  I give up.”

have you ever thought that a salesperson can have a code of ethics - even if it isn’t “dictated” to him by his profession?

[quote=max] [quote=anonymous]

 "An ethical non-fiduciary salesman is under no obligation to place the customer's interests before his own.  A fiduciary is.  Why are you struggling with this?  I give up."

This pretty much says it all.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/06/23/suitability-standards-fiduciary-intelligent-investing-brokers.html

http://www.forbes.com/2009/06/23/suitability-standards-fiduciary-intelligent-investing-brokers.html

This pretty much says it all.

Suitability: Where Brokers Fail

Take a look at this one:

max - the people on this forum have been doing this a lot longer than you.



Why do I treat you better than LA Broker? I don’t know.



But seriously, listen to the people here. They know what they are talking about. I’m sorry, but you don’t. You came here for advice. You got it.

[quote=max] [quote=Sportsfreakbob][Quote] Because I will be offering performance to distinguish myself from other advisers, a track record is essential. [Quote]

[quote=Moraen]max - the people on this forum have been doing this a lot longer than you.



Why do I treat you better than LA Broker? I don’t know.



But seriously, listen to the people here. They know what they are talking about. I’m sorry, but you don’t. You came here for advice. You got it. [/quote]

Are you talking about the cold call Brokers reps and boiler room freaks that post here?
They have nothing to offer anyone.  Sorry Moraen. 

[quote=max]

[quote=anonymous]Do you know what fee-based means.

[quote=max]

I never said a fee based adviser has no incentive to violate his fiduciary obligations.  Just less incentive than a salesman.
[/quote]

Speaking of buying-and-holding, if your primary concern is the best interest of the client, how do you reconcile this:

A commission-based broker invests $100K of his clients money in an American Funds.  Client pays about a $5K commission in the first year.  Then no more for as long as they stay with American Funds.

A fiduciary RIA places the same client’s $100K into a fee-based account at 1% per year.

If the client intends to hold the position for 10 years, which situation is in the best interest of the client?

First of all, the commission is $3500 for 100k in American funds.  Second, it depends on the client and the advisor.  If the advisor is putting the client in SMA’s or something like EDJ’s advisory solutions, the client may get better returns over the time period with the wrap fee.  Third, if you put the client in American funds “C” shares, they would be better off with the upfront “A” share. 

[quote=DHK]

[quote=Morphius]

[quote=DHK]
I’ve got people that tell me everything that goes on on your site. [/quote]
At least he has something going on at his site to tell about.  Yours, on the other hand died a slow whimpering death and nobody even noticed.  Least of all you.
[/quote]


You’re next.
[/quote]
Bobby, Bobby, Bobby … take a breath!   Someone responds to one of your jabs and rather than reply in kind you skip right to personal threats?  What happened to that witty repartee and biting humor you used to have? 

Now you’re even imagining me in other users here.  You should know my ‘voice’ by now, and it doesn’t sound anything like Gordon Ramsey, nor do I use multiple usernames.  That’s your game, not mine Bobby/Hank/Alice/Eddie/DHK.

But regardless, l think we both got punked by Frank Abagnale.  Look again at the way his posts read.  That’s not who we both thought it was.  You called him out to start it off, and he picked up that ball and just ran with it.  Did pretty well too, I’ll admit.  Had me going.  He is obviously someone who has been around long enough to know the basics of the history and banter a bit, but that’s not the way BG writes, and everything ‘Frank’ wrote is known by plenty of people.  Re-read his posts and I think you’ll see it this time, too.  Look at his signatures.  Does that sound like you-know-who?  Whoever it is disappeared before the charade became obvious.  I’m not sure who is is, but I’m convinced it’s not who we both thought.

This all makes me wonder about Max and who he really is.  Has to be a troll.  No one can be that dense.  Is there a full moon this weekend? 

[quote=max]
Are you talking about the cold call Brokers reps and boiler room freaks that post here?
They have nothing to offer anyone.  Sorry Moraen. 
[/quote]
Don’t feed the troll. 

[quote=Morphius]

[quote=DHK]

[quote=Morphius]

[quote=DHK]
I’ve got people that tell me everything that goes on on your site. [/quote]
At least he has something going on at his site to tell about.  Yours, on the other hand died a slow whimpering death and nobody even noticed.  Least of all you.
[/quote]


You’re next.
[/quote]
Bobby, Bobby, Bobby … take a breath!   Someone responds to one of your jabs and rather than reply in kind you skip right to personal threats?  What happened to that witty repartee and biting humor you used to have? 

Now you’re even imagining me in other users here.  You should know my ‘voice’ by now, and it doesn’t sound anything like Gordon Ramsey, nor do I use multiple usernames.  That’s your game, not mine Bobby/Hank/Alice/Eddie/DHK.

But regardless, l think we both got punked by Frank Abagnale.  Look again at the way his posts read.  That’s not who we both thought it was.  You called him out to start it off, and he picked up that ball and just ran with it.  Did pretty well too, I’ll admit.  Had me going.  He is obviously someone who has been around long enough to know the basics of the history and banter a bit, but that’s not the way BG writes, and everything ‘Frank’ wrote is known by plenty of people.  Re-read his posts and I think you’ll see it this time, too.  Look at his signatures.  Does that sound like you-know-who?  Whoever it is disappeared before the charade became obvious.  I’m not sure who is is, but I’m convinced it’s not who we both thought.

This all makes me wonder about Max and who he really is.  Has to be a troll.  No one can be that dense.  Is there a full moon this weekend? 

[/quote]

You’re next. I’ve learned a lot today.

[quote=henryhill]First of all, the commission is $3500 for 100k in American funds.  Second, it depends on the client and the advisor.  If the advisor is putting the client in SMA’s or something like EDJ’s advisory solutions, the client may get better returns over the time period with the wrap fee.  Third, if you put the client in American funds “C” shares, they would be better off with the upfront “A” share. [/quote]

Sorry, should have said that the RIA places the client into the same mutual fund at 1% yearly.

In any case, you made my point.

[quote=DHK]

[quote=Morphius]



[quote=DHK]

[quote=Morphius]

[quote=DHK]

I’ve got people that tell me everything that goes on on your site. [/quote]At least he has something going on at his site to tell about. Yours, on the other hand died a slow whimpering death and nobody even noticed. Least of all you. [/quote]You’re next. [/quote]Bobby, Bobby, Bobby … take a breath! Someone responds to one of your jabs and rather than reply in kind   you skip right to personal threats? What happened to that witty repartee and biting humor you used to have? Now you’re even imagining me in other users here. You should know my ‘voice’ by now, and it doesn’t sound anything like Gordon Ramsey, nor do I use multiple usernames. That’s your game, not mine Bobby/Hank/Alice/Eddie/DHK.But regardless, l think we both got punked by Frank Abagnale. Look again at the way his posts read. That’s not who we both thought it was. You called him out to start it off, and he picked up that ball and just ran with it. Did pretty well too, I’ll admit. Had me going. He is obviously someone who has been around long enough to know the basics of the history and banter a bit, but that’s not the way BG writes, and everything ‘Frank’ wrote is known by plenty of people. Re-read his posts and I think you’ll see it this time, too. Look at his signatures. Does that sound like you-know-who? Whoever it is disappeared before the charade became obvious. I’m not sure who is is, but I’m convinced it’s not who we both thought.This all makes me wonder about Max and who he really is. Has to be a troll. No one can be that dense. Is there a full moon this weekend? [/quote]You’re next. I’ve learned a lot today. [/quote]



Bullsh*t, you’re too stupid to learn.

[quote=etj4588]

[quote=henryhill]First of all, the commission is $3500 for 100k in American funds. Second, it depends on the client and the advisor. If the advisor is putting the client in SMA’s or something like EDJ’s advisory solutions, the client may get better returns over the time period with the wrap fee. Third, if you put the client in American funds “C” shares, they would be better off with the upfront “A” share. [/quote]Sorry, should have said that the RIA places the client into the same mutual fund at 1% yearly.In any case, you made my point.[/quote]



Do American funds have expenses or not?



Why would an RIA put someone in American funds anyway? Makes very little sense to me to use them.



The best reason is, even if this is the case, that client pays $3500 and then five years later, an Oppenheimer wholesaler convinces you that you should use American funds, but “here’s where Oppenhemier can add value”. Commission guy pulls out the switch letter, signs it and charges another 3.75%.



I can’t remember who said it best but, ethical is ethical. Doesn’t matter how you charge.



There is a conflict no matter how you look at it.

[quote=Moraen]


Do American funds have expenses or not?



Why would an RIA put someone in American funds anyway? Makes very little sense to me to use them.



The best reason is, even if this is the case, that client pays $3500 and then five years later, an Oppenheimer wholesaler convinces you that you should use American funds, but “here’s where Oppenhemier can add value”. Commission guy pulls out the switch letter, signs it and charges another 3.75%.



I can’t remember who said it best but, ethical is ethical. Doesn’t matter how you charge.



There is a conflict no matter how you look at it.

[/quote]

Exactly.  The conflict is there no matter what.

[quote=Moraen] [quote=etj4588]

[quote=henryhill]First of all, the commission is $3500 for 100k in American funds.  Second, it depends on the client and the advisor.  If the advisor is putting the client in SMA’s or something like EDJ’s advisory solutions, the client may get better returns over the time period with the wrap fee.  Third, if you put the client in American funds “C” shares, they would be better off with the upfront “A” share. [/quote]Sorry, should have said that the RIA places the client into the same mutual fund at 1% yearly.In any case, you made my point.[/quote]



Do American funds have expenses or not?



Why would an RIA put someone in American funds anyway? Makes very little sense to me to use them.



The best reason is, even if this is the case, that client pays $3500 and then five years later, an Oppenheimer wholesaler convinces you that you should use American funds, but “here’s where Oppenhemier can add value”. Commission guy pulls out the switch letter, signs it and charges another 3.75%.



I can’t remember who said it best but, ethical is ethical. Doesn’t matter how you charge.



There is a conflict no matter how you look at it.

[/quote]

Anyone can have a potential conflict of interest but the fee-only adviser doesn’t have this particular one.  The SPDR 500 ETF can be had for a $10.00 trade plus a 10bps expense ratio.  The fee-only adviser isn’t charging a 3.5% load every 5 years on the same assets for funds with expense ratios over 1%.

Max, commissioned advisors don’t charge loads.

[quote=anonymous]Max, commissioned advisors don’t charge loads.[/quote]

You know what I meant.  American Funds charges a 3.5% “sales charge” for 100k.  Who gets that?

Have you ever read a prospectus?

Max, based upon what you have posted so far, it would be stupid of me to make any assumptions of you having knowledge.

[quote=anonymous]

Max, based upon what you have posted so far, it would be stupid of me to make any assumptions of you having knowledge.

[quote=Gordon Ramsey]Have you ever read a prospectus?

Read the prospectus.  There is a gross dealer concession.  This all goes to the broker/dealer.   The rep can get between none of that amount and all of it.  Registered reps get paid by broker/dealers and not from fund companies.

[quote=max] [quote=Gordon Ramsey]Have you ever read a prospectus?

[quote=deekay][quote=max] [quote=Gordon Ramsey]Have you ever read a prospectus?

[quote=anonymous]Read the prospectus.  There is a gross dealer concession.  This all goes to the broker/dealer.   The rep can get between none of that amount and all of it.  Registered reps get paid by broker/dealers and not from fund companies.[/quote]

No, you read the prospectus.  You are the one selling the crap.  The American Funds example presented earlier implied that the rep got the entire 3.5%.  What is the typical cut the rep would get?

This proves that independent RIAs should have worked as a registered rep before being on their own without knowing anything.

[quote=Gordon Ramsey]This proves that independent RIAs should have worked as a registered rep before being on their own without knowing anything.[/quote]

That’s really constructive.  Why do I need to know everything about your line of work when I’m not interested in doing what you do?  And since when does someone need experience as a salesman to be a successful adviser?

[quote=max] [quote=deekay][quote=max] [quote=Gordon Ramsey]Have you ever read a prospectus?

[quote=Gordon Ramsey]This proves that independent RIAs should have worked as a registered rep before being on their own without knowing anything.[/quote]

There’s no question it would be a hell of a lot easier to start an RIA having had the experience as an IAR in someone elses office but I’ve overcome bigger challenges.  The janitor that cleans an RIAs office knows more about how one operates than I do but so what.  It’s like I said before, I can think outside the box. 

[quote=deekay][quote=max] [quote=deekay][quote=max] [quote=Gordon Ramsey]Have you ever read a prospectus?

[quote=Gordon Ramsey]This proves that independent RIAs should have worked as a registered rep before being on their own without knowing anything.[/quote]

That’s really constructive.  Why do I need to know everything about your line of work when I’m not interested in doing what you do?  And since when does someone need experience as a salesman to be a successful adviser?

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are registered.  A stupid person cannot pass the series 7 or 65 exam.  Therefore, you are not stupid.  You cannot believe that a salesman is just as likely as a fiduciary to place the customers interests before his own.

[quote=anonymous]

I wasn’t aware that SPY, SSO, and SDS have been around for 20 years.  I thought ETF’s were relatively new. 

[quote=Jebediah]I wasn’t aware that SPY, SSO, and SDS have been around for 20 years.  I thought ETF’s were relatively new.  [/quote]

20 years ago I invested in SP 500 index funds and speculated with OEX options which are derivative of the OEX 100.

This is my last post.  Really

[quote=Jebediah]I wasn’t aware that SPY, SSO, and SDS have been around for 20 years.  I thought ETF’s were relatively new.  [/quote]

20 years ago I invested in SP 500 index funds and speculated with OEX options which are derivative of the OEX 100.

This is my last post.  Really

It seems like your RIA idea will only have one of two results.  1) You will be successful with your trading and therefore, won’t need clients or 2) You won’t be successful and therefore, won’t be able to get clients.

[quote=anonymous]It seems like your RIA idea will only have one of two results.  1) You will be successful with your trading and therefore, won’t need clients or 2) You won’t be successful and therefore, won’t be able to get clients.[/quote]

I’m already successful with my trading and I don’t NEED clients.  I’m bored and I’m looking for a new challenge.  Besides, I want a lot more money than I need so I can give it away.  What a concept, yes?

This is my last post.  Really

[quote=anonymous]It seems like your RIA idea will only have one of two results.  1) You will be successful with your trading and therefore, won’t need clients or 2) You won’t be successful and therefore, won’t be able to get clients.[/quote]

I’m already successful with my trading and I don’t NEED clients.  I’m bored and I’m looking for a new challenge.  Besides, I want a lot more money than I need so I can give it away.  What a concept, yes?

This is my last post.  Really

But life insurance pays a commission to an agent!  He can’t buy that!

[quote=maxy]

[quote=anonymous]It seems like your RIA idea will only have one of two results. 1) You will be successful with your trading and therefore, won’t need clients or 2) You won’t be successful and therefore, won’t be able to get clients.[/quote]I’m already successful with my trading and I don’t NEED clients. I’m bored and I’m looking for a new challenge. Besides, I want a lot more money than I need so I can give it away. What a concept, yes?This is my last post. Really [/quote]



You’ve been around 20 years. Unlikely, given your defensiveness.



Really, indexing is your value add?

Is Max and Maxy the same person?

Yes.

If you have a series 7 and 63 and live in NYC then we need to talk. I'm gonna add to my desk. (yes I know this is vague.. I can't go into too much detail on a forum for compliance reasons) We are one of the fastest growing firms in the country with multiple offices around the world. Please pass this around to anyone you know who qualifies. email resumes to [email protected]

I'm looking to buy books of business. Email with info of what you have at available at [email protected]