Nick Murray Prospecting Script

Jul 15, 2010 2:40 am

The book the Game of Numbers is on backorder. I have ordered it. The script I am going to use in cold calling is “Are you perfectly happy with the financial advice you’ve been getting over the last couple of years?”

I am struggling with the rest of the script can anyone offer any advice?

Jul 15, 2010 5:21 am

A lot of people on this forum will tell you to lead with XYZ product, which to me is another way of saying "I don't know any more than the other guy what's going on, but I have some really cool products on which I earn a nice commission."  But that's just me.  I'm guessing this works for a good salesman with a naive customer.  But if what you're really selling is yourself, then it's pretty lame IMHO.

My advice:  think less about your script and more about your value proposition.  Why did you get into this business and how are you different?  Almost no one is happy with the advice they have received the past two (or ten) years. With that comes distrust of advisors in general.  You'd better be quick in getting to how you are different and why YOU can be trusted.  In this market, don't ask the prospect if they're unhappy; assume they are.  If it's a bad assumption, well, you probably weren't going to get that client anyway.

Jul 15, 2010 12:26 pm

[quote=loneMADman]

A lot of people on this forum will tell you to lead with XYZ product, which to me is another way of saying "I don't know any more than the other guy what's going on, but I have some really cool products on which I earn a nice commission."  But that's just me.  I'm guessing this works for a good salesman with a naive customer.  But if what you're really selling is yourself, then it's pretty lame IMHO.

My advice:  think less about your script and more about your value proposition.  Why did you get into this business and how are you different?  Almost no one is happy with the advice they have received the past two (or ten) years. With that comes distrust of advisors in general.  You'd better be quick in getting to how you are different and why YOU can be trusted.  In this market, don't ask the prospect if they're unhappy; assume they are.  If it's a bad assumption, well, you probably weren't going to get that client anyway.

[/quote]

The advice offered by lone is about as bad as it gets. Sorry lone.

Let me clear this up. The reason so many advise to lead with a product is because it works. That is: real people making real phone calls to tens of thousands of real homes and businesses over the past 20 plus years. If another approach was more effective, believe me, these people  would be using that approach. The products aren't cool or unique and the customers are far from naive. And, many times the commissions aren't so nice as prices are cut to the bone to win the relationship. The advisors who use this business model are using these first transactions to scale the wall of trust and gain a seat at the table. Once seated at that table it's "Game On" as the advisor will eventually, at the client's pace, move in to capture all the client's assets. The advisor will use whatever products cool and otherwise, or services and WM programs to get that job done.

Even if all you do is build a book of transactional business, what's wrong with that? Usually, much more gets built, but going from only being able to place 1000 shares of a good opportunity to 50,000 or 100,000 shares isn't a bad way to make a living. In the end, however, the relationship turns in whatever direction you turn it. Want it to go fee? You take it there. Once the wall of trust is scaled you've got the client's attention. And, in the unlikely event the client turns you down, well you've still got a bond buyer or stock buyer as a client. It's all part of having a diverse book of business.

Selling yourself is part of any presentation, but honestly, if that's all you've got and you're leading with it, good luck at Chubby's Chevy Land because that's where you are headed. It's not that you are not worthy, just no one wants to hear it. You will fail before you can get traction.

Jul 15, 2010 5:11 pm

[quote=BondGuy]

[quote=loneMADman]

A lot of people on this forum will tell you to lead with XYZ product, which to me is another way of saying "I don't know any more than the other guy what's going on, but I have some really cool products on which I earn a nice commission."  But that's just me.  I'm guessing this works for a good salesman with a naive customer.  But if what you're really selling is yourself, then it's pretty lame IMHO.

My advice:  think less about your script and more about your value proposition.  Why did you get into this business and how are you different?  Almost no one is happy with the advice they have received the past two (or ten) years. With that comes distrust of advisors in general.  You'd better be quick in getting to how you are different and why YOU can be trusted.  In this market, don't ask the prospect if they're unhappy; assume they are.  If it's a bad assumption, well, you probably weren't going to get that client anyway.

[/quote]

The advice offered by lone is about as bad as it gets. Sorry lone.

Let me clear this up. The reason so many advise to lead with a product is because it works. That is: real people making real phone calls to tens of thousands of real homes and businesses over the past 20 plus years. If another approach was more effective, believe me, these people  would be using that approach. The products aren't cool or unique and the customers are far from naive. And, many times the commissions aren't so nice as prices are cut to the bone to win the relationship. The advisors who use this business model are using these first transactions to scale the wall of trust and gain a seat at the table. Once seated at that table it's "Game On" as the advisor will eventually, at the client's pace, move in to capture all the client's assets. The advisor will use whatever products cool and otherwise, or services and WM programs to get that job done.

Even if all you do is build a book of transactional business, what's wrong with that? Usually, much more gets built, but going from only being able to place 1000 shares of a good opportunity to 50,000 or 100,000 shares isn't a bad way to make a living. In the end, however, the relationship turns in whatever direction you turn it. Want it to go fee? You take it there. Once the wall of trust is scaled you've got the client's attention. And, in the unlikely event the client turns you down, well you've still got a bond buyer or stock buyer as a client. It's all part of having a diverse book of business.

Selling yourself is part of any presentation, but honestly, if that's all you've got and you're leading with it, good luck at Chubby's Chevy Land because that's where you are headed. It's not that you are not worthy, just no one wants to hear it. You will fail before you can get traction.

[/quote]

Very well stated. Especially as a new rep, if they try to present themselves as a "wealth" manager, good golly are they in for a tough hall. People like you and me have decades of experiences, and could win that fight in a heartbeat. On the other hand, if a rep simply offers a product that said client is already interested in, there isn't much objection. After many years, I concluded that in order for me to really succeed, I'd need to confirm the underpinnings of every great business relationship.... Like/Trust/Knowledge. I prefer to do that over time, instead of ram it down their throat at the first meeting, and get them to sign off on my version of "all your money into my wealth management plan".

BondGuy, I'm sure you'll agree, that sadly, most firms today teach new reps sales tactics that either don't work well, or are designed exclusively to enrich the firm.

Jul 15, 2010 5:24 pm

[quote=loneMADman]

A lot of people on this forum will tell you to lead with XYZ product, which to me is another way of saying "I don't know any more than the other guy what's going on, but I have some really cool products on which I earn a nice commission."  But that's just me.  I'm guessing this works for a good salesman with a naive customer.  But if what you're really selling is yourself, then it's pretty lame IMHO.

My advice:  think less about your script and more about your value proposition.  Why did you get into this business and how are you different?  Almost no one is happy with the advice they have received the past two (or ten) years. With that comes distrust of advisors in general.  You'd better be quick in getting to how you are different and why YOU can be trusted.  In this market, don't ask the prospect if they're unhappy; assume they are.  If it's a bad assumption, well, you probably weren't going to get that client anyway.

[/quote]

I'm sitting here, and wondering what would happen if you stumbled into one of my A or B book clients. The reason why my clients do biz with me in a big way, is because they like me, trust me, and find me knowledgeable (surprisingly, results are low on the list). That took many years for me to establish with the client. In the last 10 yrs, I've lost maybe 3-4 really big accounts. Two of them were lost because my firm was going bankrupt, but imagine that 250 100k+ clients stuck with me even though our firm which was headquartered in my urban area was in the news ALL DAY LONG. One or two accounts were lost due to personality conflicts. The only customer/clients that I lost in any meaningful number, were households that were less than 25k, with almost each one going off to Ed Jones. Knowing the accounts for years, I really should have just thanked the Ed Jones rep for taking away some of my Financial Social Work relations. 

Getting the A or B book clients of another rep, is much harder than you might think. Where I think the "gold" really is, is taking the C book that is worth far more than the currently assigned rep realizes. Money in motion would also be my focus if I started all over again. BondGuy's approach also benefits a starting rep in another majorly important way for a new rep. You open accounts and gather assets much faster than doing advanced financial planning. If all you focused on for 2 years was opening good households, you'd have every household you'd ever need after that nasty phone pounding stretch. Afterwards, you'd simply cultivate that relationship pool and gather more and more assets. Then, after that 2-3 yrs stretch, you just kick back and manage the relations. Anyways, lots of ways to skin the cat, and I actually have known several other successful reps that have taken the planning approach as a lead.  

Jul 15, 2010 5:27 pm

Nick M:

Are you perfectly happy with the financial advice you've been getting over the past couple of years?

Can you see the wisdom at least getting a second opinion at this point?

+ There are multiple schools of thought on which tactic works best.  Lead with product, lead with service.  The truth is the guys above are full of shit.  Both work.  Both work well.  If you do it alot and have confidence in what you are doing.

Jul 15, 2010 5:29 pm

Big - How about you post a list of this A & B clients and we'll see what I can do with them.

Jul 15, 2010 6:17 pm

JumpMan Thanks You are the only one who has come up with a script. Is there anything else I should know from that chapter? 

Jul 15, 2010 6:24 pm

[quote=JumpMan]

Nick M:

Are you perfectly happy with the financial advice you've been getting over the past couple of years?

Can you see the wisdom at least getting a second opinion at this point?

+ There are multiple schools of thought on which tactic works best.  Lead with product, lead with service.  The truth is the guys above are full of shit.  Both work.  Both work well.  If you do it alot and have confidence in what you are doing.

[/quote]

Are you suggesting that BondGuy and I are full of it? Both of us have at least provided significant details to our chain of thought. You on the other hand, quote two lines from one of the cheeziest authors of the financial industry. I'd guess that BG and I probably got 50 yrs into this biz. How about you?

And, if you read my comments, you'll see that I admit that the planning prospector during my career has been done successfully. Not as often, and not without significant career risk, but there are a few I've come across that defied the odds. Each of them was borderline or actually the definition of "brilliant".   

Jul 15, 2010 6:45 pm

Gentlemen PLEASE

I was asking for the script from Nick Murray's book. The book is on backorder and I was womdering if anyone could or would put the complete script  frtom the book and any other information on this chatroom blog.

Thank you for your courtesy in advance.

Jul 15, 2010 7:05 pm

back order from where? Go to his website, only place to get it ....

Jul 15, 2010 7:21 pm

[quote=rogerballs]

JumpMan Thanks You are the only one who has come up with a script. Is there anything else I should know from that chapter? 

[/quote]

You can lead'em to water, but...

Roger,

For the record, what you and jump have posted aren't scripts, they are rebuttals. Not that they couldn't work. As a rookie you would be wise to look at what some others have posted and incorporate that advice. I work in an office with rookies opening huge accounts via cold calling.  None of them opens with "How dissatisfied are you?"  ( the actual question you are asking) Why? Because the follow up line " I'm an investment genius with 30 seconds of experience" usually doesn't cut it with serious investors. Read that and understand, once the prospect gets ahold of your bio you're gone. No serious investor is going to give a rookie his portfolio to manage . And, as Big pointed out, the hot button, for those with long term relationships, lies outside the performance spectrum. Usually, way outside. Due respect paid to Nick and his advice to hit the performance button to get in the door and then deselect performance as a measure for account management.

OTOH calling them with a product makes your level of experience moot. Today, I was calling prospects with a BAB yielding 7.3%. Did anyone ask how long i'd been in the business? Nope, didn't come up. Did any show interest? Yup! Did any become qualified prospects? Yup again!  Did I sell the bond to any of these prospects? Nope! That's bad ju-ju.  Did i sell that bond to anyone? Yup! I sold 150k with 2pts to a client I opened last November. That account opened for about 70k. Today, before I added the new bond, the account was worth 1.2 million. And, here's the best part: Instead of just paying for the trade the client said she was sending me another $500k. So, that's another 350k to invest, on top of the bond today. Whoohoo!!!! is this a great business or what?  

Or, you can do it your way. I know you were just looking for a few more rebuttal lines. Good luck!!!!!

Jul 15, 2010 7:27 pm

BondGuy, Congratulations on the great day! "Or, you can do it your way. I know you were just looking for a few more rebuttal lines." what is this ?

Jul 15, 2010 8:11 pm

The "script" lines you've been offered are questions usually asked as part of a rebuttal with prospects who have rejected your original proffer. They are usually not in themselves a complete script.

I actually like the idea of leading with those types of questions. The problem is, as a newbie, you've got nothing to fall back on. A serious investor is going to ask "Whatchagotkid?" And, you've got nothing. By challenging the performance of their current advisor you are putting yourself in a box. You are putting a performance record you don't have out there front and center. 

Follow me here: you didn't screw anyone in the market collapse of 08-09. However, your predecessors did. The only reason you are hired is because those ahead of you by a few years were swept out of the training program  by the market collapse. The very collapse you are referring to in your opening script. And, here you are, a never hurt anyone noobie peddling the same crap that got most of the class of 07 and 08  their walking papers. The people you need as clients are smart enough to figure that out. Thus, I wouldn't shine a light on it.

Jul 15, 2010 8:11 pm

[quote=BigFirepower] 

Getting the A or B book clients of another rep, is much harder than you might think. Where I think the "gold" really is, is taking the C book that is worth far more than the currently assigned rep realizes. Money in motion would also be my focus if I started all over again. BondGuy's approach also benefits a starting rep in another majorly important way for a new rep. You open accounts and gather assets much faster than doing advanced financial planning. If all you focused on for 2 years was opening good households, you'd have every household you'd ever need after that nasty phone pounding stretch. Afterwards, you'd simply cultivate that relationship pool and gather more and more assets. Then, after that 2-3 yrs stretch, you just kick back and manage the relations. Anyways, lots of ways to skin the cat, and I actually have known several other successful reps that have taken the planning approach as a lead.  

[/quote]

This is quite true.  I rarely (never) get an "A" client from any of the better wirehouse advisors in my area.  Why?  because they take good care of them.  What DO I get?  B and C clients of those advisors, that are not giving them the time of day, or haven't bothered to follow up with them, and don't realize they have sizeable assets outside.  I also get "A" clients from crappy advisors (the annuity whore$ that just play games to maximize gross - I could tell some stories...). 

Where have most of my big clients come from?  Doorknocking.  Just kidding.  Most have come from executives that had money spread out so many places (their 401K, pension balances, insurance agent, a no-load company, and maybe some at a wirehouse), that nobody took them seriously.  Once you roll it all together, now you're talking about serious money.  A large portion is typically in the 401K and/or the pension. 

My take is that stealing money from other advisors is tough if it is already a large account.  The best money is made when it's in motion (retiring, layoff, leave job, divorce, sell business, etc.).

I can honestly say that some of my "C" clients would probably leave if they found a compelling alternative.  I have ignored many of them.  It's tough to pay attention to them when they have $15K, nothing else to invest ever, and you are working on $750K cases and trying to give your A clients great service.  That's one of the crummy things about this business.  You truly outgrow some of your clients (from an advice standpoint).  Even though you may still have them in a good mix of investments, your lack of communication translates into them being ignored.

Jul 15, 2010 9:01 pm

Hey you guys don't forget to register your scripts with the NASD.

Jul 15, 2010 9:36 pm

Softy just came out of his mom's basement. Must be dehydrated.

Jul 16, 2010 1:58 am

BondGuy, Thank you for your reply. I have been an advisor since 1986. The "CRAP" I am peddling in 2008 was up over 5% and since 11/05- 4/10 I am up a whopping 75% with a drawdown of -8.3%. I want the prospect to  say, " Whatchagotkid?" I can say, here is my record and how I handled 2008. Let's see how your advisor did.

By the way I am a technical guy who has a process that uses ETF's only.

Thank you for the dialogue and your advice.

Jul 16, 2010 12:35 pm

Roger - That's good to hear. I'm reviewing that old saying about making assumptions as I assumed you were a trainee looking for direction. In your case, of course, go for it!!!!!

And, I'm thrilled to hear that there are actually advisors out there who are doing something to protect clients rather than blindly leaving them on the tracks to get run down by the next Black Swan event! 

I will now sit down and shut up!

Let us know how it goes.

Jul 16, 2010 2:14 pm

Thank you for your input and I will let you know my progress. Are you in FLA? Also what super regional are you with, if you could share? You can email me at [email protected] your contact info would love to talk. 

Jul 16, 2010 4:21 pm

[quote=B24]

[quote=BigFirepower] 

Getting the A or B book clients of another rep, is much harder than you might think. Where I think the "gold" really is, is taking the C book that is worth far more than the currently assigned rep realizes. Money in motion would also be my focus if I started all over again. BondGuy's approach also benefits a starting rep in another majorly important way for a new rep. You open accounts and gather assets much faster than doing advanced financial planning. If all you focused on for 2 years was opening good households, you'd have every household you'd ever need after that nasty phone pounding stretch. Afterwards, you'd simply cultivate that relationship pool and gather more and more assets. Then, after that 2-3 yrs stretch, you just kick back and manage the relations. Anyways, lots of ways to skin the cat, and I actually have known several other successful reps that have taken the planning approach as a lead.  

[/quote]

This is quite true.  I rarely (never) get an "A" client from any of the better wirehouse advisors in my area.  Why?  because they take good care of them.  What DO I get?  B and C clients of those advisors, that are not giving them the time of day, or haven't bothered to follow up with them, and don't realize they have sizeable assets outside.  I also get "A" clients from crappy advisors (the annuity whore$ that just play games to maximize gross - I could tell some stories...). 

Where have most of my big clients come from?  Doorknocking.  Just kidding.  Most have come from executives that had money spread out so many places (their 401K, pension balances, insurance agent, a no-load company, and maybe some at a wirehouse), that nobody took them seriously.  Once you roll it all together, now you're talking about serious money.  A large portion is typically in the 401K and/or the pension. 

My take is that stealing money from other advisors is tough if it is already a large account.  The best money is made when it's in motion (retiring, layoff, leave job, divorce, sell business, etc.).

I can honestly say that some of my "C" clients would probably leave if they found a compelling alternative.  I have ignored many of them.  It's tough to pay attention to them when they have $15K, nothing else to invest ever, and you are working on $750K cases and trying to give your A clients great service.  That's one of the crummy things about this business.  You truly outgrow some of your clients (from an advice standpoint).  Even though you may still have them in a good mix of investments, your lack of communication translates into them being ignored.

[/quote]

Spot on...

Jul 18, 2010 9:22 pm

[quote=rogerballs]

Thank you for your input and I will let you know my progress. Are you in FLA? Also what super regional are you with, if you could share? You can email me at [email protected] your contact info would love to talk. 

[/quote]

As much as i'd like to contact you off the board I've learned my lesson well with regard to maintaining privacy. I will tell you that while I own real estate in Florida, and spend a lot of time there, I'm based out of the north east. Kinda tough for a native Floridian but just the way it worked out.

My firm's name also on the privacy list. PM and we can talk.

Jul 23, 2010 11:29 pm

rogerballs, I have been using his script for about month.  My advice would be to use it, but have a muni bond to pitch as well.  Most people are going to say they are VERY happy with the financial advice they have been getting.  I follow that with a muni bond pitch.

"Are you happy with the financial advice advice you have been getting the past couple of years?"  If they balk at all I say "Can you see the wisdom of at least getting a second opinion at this point?"  If they give me a confindent yes, then I say "We have a tax free investment from XYZ paying X, would you be interested in some additional information on that?"   

The most important advice from Nick is that you start with a baseline of prospecting approaches per day, whatever you can do in a day without having a nervous breakdown, and then increase this number by 10% every couple weeks.  And you don't stop prospecting for any reason until you are producing $1MM a year.   At the end of the day, as long as you are prospecting you really can't go wrong.  Do whatever feels comfortable for you.

I would recommend the book to anyone who is restarting or is a newbie.

Aug 13, 2010 7:57 pm

Bondguy what is your BAB Pitch for prospects?

I have this from another post........

here's a sample of some of what i say. Quite frankly i've broken my own rules witH regard to BABs and don't have a written pitch. I should. Also, most of those that i'm pitching to are long time clients and that pitch goes something like this:
 
Me: I have have a great bond for you today or i have an exceptional opportunity for you today.
 Client: what is it?
 Me: it's something called a build america bond and it yields 7%.
 Client: Sounds good, how many should i buy?
 So it goes when you have a long term book.
 The following is a combination of some of the things i say when forced to "pitch"
 Mr. client I'm calling you today to tell you about a brand new type of investment called a Build America Bond. Are you familiar with these? No doubt you're familiar with the economic stimuous package the government has put into action and part of that package is putting people back to work building schools, highways and all sorts of infrastructure projects. Cities, towns, counties, states across the country are using this program building the projects that they need. These bonds are issued to pay for those projects. The federal government is subsidizing the payment of interest on these bonds making them very safe. And here's the best part, they are paying over 7%!
 Right now you are getting what, 1% in your money market? Until now, with the economy the way it is, I wasn't comfortable showing you alternatives to the money market, however the build america program has changed that.  They are very safe. Today i have an XYZ turnpike bond yielding over 7% to available. it's a Build America bond and will be used to widen the turnpike between exits 6 and 8. it's rated double A plus and will come due in about 20 years in May of 2029. It will pay you $7000 a year in interest and is priced at a slight discount to give you a yield of 7.12%. What i'm recommending is that we start with $100,000, buy 100 of these bonds, and then go from there. This will put that money back to work for you rather than letting it sit on the sidelines. How's that sound to you?
 
A heavier close and more bullet points employed to B clients or prospects.

I sent you a PM recently Hope allis well at UBS
 

Aug 13, 2010 7:57 pm

Bondguy what is your BAB Pitch for prospects?

I have this from another post........

here's a sample of some of what i say. Quite frankly i've broken my own rules witH regard to BABs and don't have a written pitch. I should. Also, most of those that i'm pitching to are long time clients and that pitch goes something like this:
 
Me: I have have a great bond for you today or i have an exceptional opportunity for you today.
 Client: what is it?
 Me: it's something called a build america bond and it yields 7%.
 Client: Sounds good, how many should i buy?
 So it goes when you have a long term book.
 The following is a combination of some of the things i say when forced to "pitch"
 Mr. client I'm calling you today to tell you about a brand new type of investment called a Build America Bond. Are you familiar with these? No doubt you're familiar with the economic stimuous package the government has put into action and part of that package is putting people back to work building schools, highways and all sorts of infrastructure projects. Cities, towns, counties, states across the country are using this program building the projects that they need. These bonds are issued to pay for those projects. The federal government is subsidizing the payment of interest on these bonds making them very safe. And here's the best part, they are paying over 7%!
 Right now you are getting what, 1% in your money market? Until now, with the economy the way it is, I wasn't comfortable showing you alternatives to the money market, however the build america program has changed that.  They are very safe. Today i have an XYZ turnpike bond yielding over 7% to available. it's a Build America bond and will be used to widen the turnpike between exits 6 and 8. it's rated double A plus and will come due in about 20 years in May of 2029. It will pay you $7000 a year in interest and is priced at a slight discount to give you a yield of 7.12%. What i'm recommending is that we start with $100,000, buy 100 of these bonds, and then go from there. This will put that money back to work for you rather than letting it sit on the sidelines. How's that sound to you?
 
A heavier close and more bullet points employed to B clients or prospects.

I sent you a PM recently Hope allis well at UBS
 

Aug 14, 2010 8:24 pm

Nick Murray is a complete joke. I met him 25 years ago and he's was a joke then an now he's simply a bitter older joke.

Aug 19, 2010 11:15 pm

What you say is far less important than actually saying it to lots of people. If you ask enough people if you can punch them in the face sooner or later one will say yes. What ever you say IF you say it to 40 new people a day you will be a success story. It's as simple as that.

Aug 20, 2010 4:47 am

Meletio, from personal experience, I totally agree about Nick Murray.

Fellow competitors, I don't you'll find the best prospecting ideas listed here, if you know what I mean. Check out Al Pacino vs. Jack Lemmon in GlennGary GlenRoss, if you want to at least get pointed in the right direction.  

The idea is to get enough new clients with money, and the numbers game is really old school and inefficient. Most advisors are poor marketers, but marketing can enhance your attractiveness as a professional. Opening one account for $500,000 versus 10 at fifty is more than ten times efficient, when you factor in your time and energy, the difference is exponential.

Aug 20, 2010 1:11 pm

[quote=tenthtee]

Meletio, from personal experience, I totally agree about Nick Murray.

Fellow competitors, I don't you'll find the best prospecting ideas listed here, if you know what I mean. Check out Al Pacino vs. Jack Lemmon in GlennGary GlenRoss, if you want to at least get pointed in the right direction.  

The idea is to get enough new clients with money, and the numbers game is really old school and inefficient. Most advisors are poor marketers, but marketing can enhance your attractiveness as a professional. Opening one account for $500,000 versus 10 at fifty is more than ten times efficient, when you factor in your time and energy, the difference is exponential.

[/quote]

Ahmen.  The only caveat is that if you do a lot of ancillary business, those 10 accounts could be lucrative.  It all depends on your model.  However, those 10 accounts will be worthless eventually if you don't get some recurring revenue from them.  Otherwise, you are in "Jones" mode, still opening 10-15 accounts per month in year 15 to continue making good money.

Aug 21, 2010 1:11 pm

Tenthtee, GlennGary Glenn Ross? That's a bad joke!

If you find so little value here, why are you here?

Aug 21, 2010 2:44 pm

Huh? That movie demonstrates social networking vs. working recycled leads.  Are you offended if I say, cold calling is for geeks, and always has been? That Nick Murray has always been good at looking out for Nick Murray?

Aug 22, 2010 11:59 pm

Offended isn't the right word. You just don't know what you are talking about. What do you know about best prospecting ideas? Something you saw in a "B" movie?

Aug 23, 2010 4:05 am

Enough to write the book, " Cold Calling is for Geeks". Probably not a best seller though, huh?

Aug 23, 2010 3:18 pm

off topic - God I love that movie

Aug 23, 2010 4:31 pm

[quote=tenthtee]

Huh? That movie demonstrates social networking vs. working recycled leads.  Are you offended if I say, cold calling is for geeks, and always has been? That Nick Murray has always been good at looking out for Nick Murray?

[/quote]

You have to be kidding me with this social networking... As a 22 year old recent college grad, I had no social networks, everyone knows you are brand new.....

Go look at your local chamber of commerce, and see the people "networking" there... make-up sales, local handyman, 4-7 jones reps, local mortgage guy, multi level marketing people, local insurance guy who runs his office from home..

Aug 23, 2010 5:55 pm

[quote=chickenfeed]

[quote=tenthtee]

Huh? That movie demonstrates social networking vs. working recycled leads.  Are you offended if I say, cold calling is for geeks, and always has been? That Nick Murray has always been good at looking out for Nick Murray?

[/quote]

You have to be kidding me with this social networking... As a 22 year old recent college grad, I had no social networks, everyone knows you are brand new.....

Go look at your local chamber of commerce, and see the people "networking" there... make-up sales, local handyman, 4-7 jones reps, local mortgage guy, multi level marketing people, local insurance guy who runs his office from home..

[/quote]

This is quite accurate.  You are just missing the guy selling pre-paid legal that is there for the great little pigs-n-a-blanket.  Or how about the lady selling some new diet program?  "Hey, two shakes a day and a sensible meal!  The pounds just MELT away!!"

Aug 23, 2010 5:59 pm

You're right about the chamber.

Aug 23, 2010 6:33 pm

My experience with our local chamber is exactly as described as above, and the very reason why my entire career I've stayed away from that stuff. IMHO, if you are going to network socially, do it while pursuing something you love. So, I've been at a nice Country/Golf Club for about 3 1/2 years. The golf is first, the networking is second. I'm seeing decent results, but it takes Y E A R S... Not into golf? How about Harley Club, Corvette, boating, whatever... Just make it sincere, and something you enjoy.

I'd like to hear about other folks experiences in these settings. Maybe another thread is in order?

Aug 23, 2010 6:58 pm

Big, nice to hear. Why don't you start the thread?

Aug 23, 2010 7:02 pm

As soon as I'm motivated. I hate Mondays...

Aug 23, 2010 7:13 pm

Time to go out while the days are long and bright.

Aug 23, 2010 7:21 pm

Tenth, I've been telling myself that for years now...

So, I'm at my 120th golf round of the year. I'm thinking 170 or so is in the cards....

Aug 23, 2010 7:35 pm

Nice, that is about six times more rounds than me.

I have been to the club to practice about 150 times YTD.( 6 - 16 holes average).  Love to practice and do a little competition.

But, I may be going over the edge. Last night, I saw something like a shadow aura.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100618113810AAICNh7

Too much Zen golf, or Golf in the Kingdom.

Aug 23, 2010 7:49 pm

Double Doppelganger....

It's doom.

Aug 23, 2010 8:00 pm

D*amn. Must be why I lipped out  that three foot birdie putt.

Aug 23, 2010 8:36 pm

Where do you guys find that much time to golf?  I would be hard-pressed to get out once a week, but you guys are getting out there 5 days a week.  You guys single?  Kids?

Aug 23, 2010 9:28 pm

4 kids and married. I live 1/2 mile from club, 5 miles to office. I have about 4 hours of "real work" per day. I play golf with folks that are kingpins of the area, so I justify it that way. I've been very, very low key with members. They bring up the subject before I do. My wife's pretty cool about it, realizes it's better than many other bad habits. Speaking of golf, it's 75 degrees, the course is perfect, greens running about 13...

Aug 23, 2010 9:33 pm

[quote=Gaddock]

What you say is far less important than actually saying it to lots of people. If you ask enough people if you can punch them in the face sooner or later one will say yes. What ever you say IF you say it to 40 new people a day you will be a success story. It's as simple as that.

[/quote]

+1. It's about the numbers. consistant numbers everyday.

Aug 23, 2010 9:36 pm

It gets easier when the young ones are standing on the edge of the nest.

Being a few minutes from the course, and being able to just walk on and start playing make it more like going to the gym. If you're lucky, there are two courses.

Aug 23, 2010 9:42 pm

Big Fire, the temperature is about the same, and we think and act alike with our golf.  I hope we're not at the same club.

Aug 23, 2010 9:57 pm

hahahaha my chamber was exactly the same. diet lady included

Aug 23, 2010 10:04 pm

when you first start out, attending chamber meetings makes you feel important

Aug 23, 2010 10:56 pm

That is funny. 

There was an attorney who helped people spend their money incorporating, and a guy who could help you refinance your house to spend $$$ on the new business, after the financial advisor did the last transactions to blow out your rollover IRA.

Aug 23, 2010 11:20 pm

How ethical is it to have an ulterior motive within social prospecting circles? I mean i get it, a lot of business from all walks of life gets done on a golf course. To me, the ethical question gets covered if everyone in the foursome knows up front  that round is more about one of them making money than it is about golf. The game can be a pleasant way to conduct business. But, the truth is, many of the these golf partners don't know they're being prospected. The don't realize that's why they were invited or included. This holds especially true for the big kingpins who are members of the club. Regardless of whether business is conducted, playing with them enables the business person with the ulterior motive to build a relationship with them. The kingpins think they've found a new golf partner, while the business person is plotting the next building block to the guy's wallet. How honest is that? Any way you spin it, it's not honest.

That's always been my problem with social prospecting. It's not honest. Personally, i hate it when joe the insurance guy corners me at a charity event or other social event. Say what you will about cold calling, direct mail, and seminars, at least they are straight forward. Everyone at the table knows the complete score.

I don't do business with people at the charities I work with. This extends to rotary and various clubs i belong to.  If someone really needs help I refer them to one of the half dozen guys i trust in this business. I stay out of it. I won't discuss any aspect of the business with any of the folks at these functions. So far, that's worked out just fine. Peace of mind has a price.

Aug 23, 2010 11:27 pm

As long as you have peace of mind.

Golf is the motive, giving or getting help from people you know and trust is just being social. 

The guy who runs a chain of car washes isn't hitting on me to wash my car there, vice versa.

I could take a shot and say, you appear a bit self righteous. Like, appearances are more important than fact.

Aug 24, 2010 12:54 am

Yeah, that would be a shot. my objection to social prospecting is well documented on this forum.  I view those who use social prospecting as being disingenuous. Which is why I won't do it. If living by ones' moral code is being self righteous, well then guilty as charged.

As for giving help to those you know as just being social? Not when that help comes with a price tag. Then you go from friend to well paid service provider. That you may be the best advisor on the planet doesn't change that fact.

Gee, what a coincidence that the help they needed just so happens to be what you get paid to do for a living.

The guy with the car washes is a poor example. He needs at least 100 customers a day to make his businesswork. You need less than 100 per year to make yours work. Businesswise you have much more to gain than he does from the relationship.

Aug 24, 2010 1:05 am

Wow, you are really cynical.

People do business with people they like. When you spend four hours playing a round of golf, you get to know someone at a real level.

Why would you be cynical about getting paid? As long as you are fair and treat everyone the same, either they want your service or they don't.

Why cynical about the "coincidence"? Would you rather trade money with your friends, or with the Chinese?

It seems like you are trying to make some kind of moral point here. It reminds me of  what is happening in America right now, too much BS about appearances. I hear the liberal political analysts, there are always talking about how this or that might seem, or what someone should do to give the appearance of caring.

My ancestors came to this country doing business on personal relationships and handshakes, that's still good enough for me.

The object is to make money and have fun, which usually means spending it on things you like.

I can tell you're not a golfer. Get your head in the game, you might feel differently.

I chose the word 'geek' carefully.

Aug 24, 2010 1:50 am

[quote=tenthtee]

Wow, you are really cynical.

People do business with people they like. When you spend four hours playing a round of golf, you get to know someone at a real level.

Why would you be cynical about getting paid? As long as you are fair and treat everyone the same, either they want your service or they don't.

Why cynical about the "coincidence"? Would you rather trade money with your friends, or with the Chinese?

It seems like you are trying to make some kind of moral point here. It reminds me of  what is happening in America right now, too much BS about appearances. I hear the liberal political analysts, there are always talking about how this or that might seem, or what someone should do to give the appearance of caring.

My ancestors came to this country doing business on personal relationships and handshakes, that's still good enough for me.

The object is to make money and have fun, which usually means spending it on things you like.

I can tell you're not a golfer. Get your head in the game, you might feel differently.

I chose the word 'geek' carefully.

[/quote]

I can see what BondGuy is saying...I don't disagree w/ doing business w/ those on the course, charity, etc... I think the issue he has is with the intial motive...

I have struggled w/ this in a different setting. I am in an exotic car club and an associate was talking to me about buying leads and that years ago they had a lead broker who sold them a list of exotic owners.. (F-cars, Porsche, Lambo, higher end stuff)

Anyway, he basically said "What if...?" I thought about it and to be honest started getting a mixed feeling, I am a member if the club because I love the cars and comradery and once I started looking at these guys as potential clients I started feeling like one of those old cartoons wherein one of the charcters looks at the other and he turns into a delicious looking turkey...

I mentioned it a few times to a couple of guys, but ended up leaving it alone. I always spotted those who try to sell me things in a network setting and avoid them like the plague and I didn't want to be that guy.

Even if you don't come on strong or "appear" to be selling, it seems like it would be reminicent of the times when I had a friend, a girl, I had been friends with her for years, but then I started thinking of her in different way and began getting sweaty palms and butterflies once I changed our realtionship status (atleast in my head)... 

That doesn't stop me from hammering the phones on occasion, but as BG said the cards are on the table...

I am not being sef-righteous, it's just not for me... atleast the car club. Now, I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to joining a club for the purpose of getting clients, but I think the difference is my original motive. However, I usually have a rule against doing biz w/ friends...If I recall from some of your posts, however, you're not big on the phone, which I can appreciate...  I respect your ability to be able to golf 5 days a week and share your insight here.

Aug 24, 2010 2:41 am

Thanks, I see your point.

I don't solicit, period. My marketing stuff is gear toward the affluent investor.

Families are the best example. Some are very closed about money, some very open. Since I'm doing moderate portfolios of etf indexes, I stay friends with everyone. Same with insurance, take it or leave it. I care, but I'm not your conscience or your taskmaster.

I think the more believe in what you do, you assume a kind of quiet confidence. After a while, people know you are good at what you do.

My only point about cold calling, say, leading with a product, is you are completely commoditizing yourself. I don't see how that is doing anyone any great service, certainly nothing to crow about.

Aug 24, 2010 1:32 pm

Bondguy,

I have tremendous respect for your opinions.  You are certainly in a position to give advice to the board here.  However, I have to disagree with your philosophy on social prospecting.  In all sorts of businesses, social prospecting is the norm.  It's part of how you get to know people.  Now, if you are going to the golf course for the sole purpose of "prospecting" fellow golfers, then I agree, it's a little sleazy.  But I would think you have to agree that part of "running in the right circles" involves socializing with the "type" of people you would want as clients....meaning, if you want HNW folks as clients, you gotta hang out at golf courses, marinas, art exhibits, etc.  Now, I'm not saying you should be "that guy" that is seen at every damn event in town.  But if you enjoy golf, then you should spend time on the course. 

I'm not sure what type of area you work/live in.  If memory serves me, you are in southern Jersey or Eastern PA areas.  Where I live, I am nowhere near a major metro area (like 2+ hours in either direction), and those metro areas are well served with advisors.  So most of my prospecting is relatviely local.  When you live in a county with 100,000 households, it becomes very small very quick (about 6000 in my town).  So much of the business is by referral.  The more people you know, the more business gets referred to you.  I rarely make clients out of people I know well.  But I get a lot of referrals from friends, clients and business acquaintences.

So I agree that going out to all these social events in order to prospect is probably a little sneaky.  But going for the sole purpose of getting to know more people is pretty normal and human.  Most wealthy folks got wealthy by knowing a lot of the right people.

Aug 24, 2010 3:31 pm

B24, good points.

I'm not going to pretend that our industry would change overnight, and stop cold calling - but it would be the best thing for everyone.

This thread is about the Nick Murray script, and it is time to stop beating around the bush. Cold calling is sleazy.

These days, you pretty much have to have four years of college to be an RR. The idea of having college graduates call people on the phone of show up cold in person to sell anything is offensive to most people. Do you like being interrupted at home with sales calls?

The owners and managers (trainers and marketers) of some segments of our industry still choose to accrete the labor of some young workers by condoning this practice ( you can just work your natural market, or you can cold call, whatever, just go for it and produce GDC).

Other companies are more responsible and don't allow it altogether. The do not call list has evolved to help protect the public, but beyond that, those RRs who choose to cold call are degrading the professional image of all who call themself advisor.

It is time for people like Nick Murray, who should know better and made plenty of money for himself, to step up and help lead the next generation of advisors, instead of pretending that it's all about numbers.

To suggest that "social networking" is sleazy justs perpetuates the wirehouse myth, which is about corporate greed. Most "wirehouses" are moving forward into the present day with marketing and social networking, anyway.

There is nothing noble or courageous about cold calling, anyone can be trained to do it, and it is still annoying and unprofessional. It is time for our industry to get it together, so we can help more people (by not chasing them and making it our agenda) - rather having them come to a more uniform product of educated advisors. The fact that you started your business by cold calling twenty years ago is interesting, but not important to how we need to conduct ourselves as professionals in an era of reduced trust.

Aug 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Like I said, my problem is with the ethics of social prospectors. They say they are all about the cause or activity, but really they're all about the money. Kinda like a guy who says he's all about golf and that he joined a club only for the love of the game, yet comes on here and STARTS a thread entitled Golf Prospecting. In that thread, from years ago, he brain storms with others on his low key approach to others at the club and, this is classic, how to prospect at the club before golf season starts! He goes on about how he's scoped out the competition at the club.  Not the golf competition, the broker competition.

But it's not about business? it's about the love of the game and helping friends. That's funny!

I'm not cynical, just smart enough to see the truth.

Sleazy doesn't cover it.

Aug 24, 2010 6:09 pm

Our club has dentists, chiros, orthos, lawyers, etc - you play and you make friends, and if people like you and trust you, maybe they ask you do business with them and their friends. It's called reputation. Happy to report, what I started years ago is bearing fruit.

If you haven't tried it, you're not really qualified to be making claims. You think you're smart, and you feel qualifed to judge what you don't know. I started my business cold calling decades ago, and I have transitioned to showing people who I am and if they ask what I do, they know in the back of their minds I can help them.

As for cold calling, I have high expectations for the next generation of professionals, they deserve better. They invest in college and training and sweat equity, we shouldn't be lowering the professionalism of all advisors by allowing a few greedy firms and practitioners to make us look like we're just trying to make the next product sale.

You are entitled to cold call or be the godfather of cold calling, but don't think your s*** is not stinking up the profession.

Aug 24, 2010 7:06 pm

You told us on this thread no more than a few posts ago that you didn't join the club for business, but there it is, from three years ago, your own golf prospecting thread. Now you're defending yourself. That's funny!

Like i said, say what you will about cold calling, if nothing else, it's honest. And, without it you would be washing golf carts at that club instead of snaking your way through the membership list.

Aug 24, 2010 7:47 pm

So, to sum it up:

1. I'm a liar.

2. I'm defensive.

3. That's funny.

4. Cold calling is honest.

5. Social networking is dishonest.

6. I would never have made it in the industry without cold calling.

7. By maintaining my book through referrals and social networking, I'm a slithering snake.

8. Instead of social networking, ethical advisors should be cold calling.

9. Advisors should not consider developing social networking as an alternative to cold calling.

Aug 24, 2010 8:05 pm

I'm munching some popcorn, wondering what the hell I'm reading...

Aug 24, 2010 8:25 pm

Two gnats fighting on the head of a pin diverting attention from the economic train wreck.

Aug 24, 2010 8:41 pm

Exactly. My biz partner and I were just contemplating when the first newbie RR says he was born when the market was higher than his series 7 pass date. Ten year treasury yield, man.... Something big is about to happen. Looking at the charts from the 70s, I'm thinking the market is about to make a quick move nearly 30% higher. Looking at taxable fixed income, it really looks like a sell. Munis I'm fine with, higher taxes help the pricing, but taxables look totally overpriced. I've substituted some taxable fixed income into utility holdings, gold and silver etfs. The pm, not big allocations, but about 4-5% of total portfolio. How about you?

Aug 24, 2010 9:00 pm

[quote=tenthtee]

So, to sum it up:

1. I'm a liar. Closer to self absorbed. you don't see what you're doing as unethical.

2. I'm defensive. Yes

3. That's funny. Only that you started a thread about the very aspect you deny in this thread. Funny, but not in a haha kinda way.

4. Cold calling is honest.  Absolutely ! From a business POV it's a means to an end. As for it being unprofessional, nothing could be further from the truth. When i call i'm offering opportunity!

5. Social networking is dishonest. It doesn't have to be. Unfortunately, the way many practice it, it is. Business people joining service clubs for self interest rather than the cause.  Others circulating in HNW crowds to skim a piece of the action for themselves.  That's dishonest.

6. I would never have made it in the industry without cold calling. Really, the path not taken is unknowable. But you said yourself that you started out cold calling for how many years? Likely that as a raw rookie you wouldn't have had the dough to join a club or the experience to make it work. But really there is no way to know.

7. By maintaining my book through referrals and social networking, I'm a slithering snake. Again, my take from what you've posted. Most others at your club, as in 99 out of 100, have joined for one reason, the love of golf. They want a place to play, relax, and enjoy, nothing more. Yet, you joined for the business connections you could make. That's not to say you to don't love golf. Just, not your reason for joining. Joining was part of a plan. That, in the time since you've joined you've become friends with many of the members and now also count them as clients is problematic for me. The problem, they don't know that their coming to do business with you was part of a carefully executed marketing plan. They believe it is all based on friendship. That's the snake factor.

8. Instead of social networking, ethical advisors should be cold calling. or social networking ethically, or utilizing referrals, seminars or cold calling.  Interestingly, even those who feel about cold calling as you do,  use it as part of their prospecting. For example they use cold calls to business people to invite them to golf. But, because they are pitching a fun golf outting instead of a product, they don't consider themselves cold callers.

9. Advisors should not consider developing social networking as an alternative to cold calling. Advisors should develope as many effective marketing channels as they feel comfortable doing. The key words are comfortable and effective. Spread too thin and nothing works. Social prospecting done ethically could be one of those channels. And, not as an alternative to the primary marketing channel. In addition to.

[/quote]

Aug 24, 2010 9:00 pm

Yeah, the Dow hit 10,000 in March 1999.

For commodity or sector, I've mainly used some energy ETFs (VDE) as part of the large cap allocation. Not really worth screwing with small amounts of commodities. Some basic materials (VAW) as part of the large cap allocation.

Maybe I moved my bonds early, but they are mostly short (BSV) and intermediate (BND). Short duration for TEs.

I'm ready for 30% higher or lower. After the tech meltdown in 2000, the recession, 9/11, and the financial meltdown, bailouts, the progressive train wreck, debt, printing money (Fed Reserve actions) - I've decided to go for yield, with about a third to half in diversified stocks, depending on the risk questionaire.

Since the financial meltdown, I'm keeping fixed income more conservative (higher quality) to help reduce potential portfolio volatitility (like, terrrorism or market panics), and keeping clients invested in the "right" amount of equities.

In other words, really boring portfolios with a nod to the economic cycle. Being the guy who is delegated by clients to follow all of the drama, take the emotional hit, and have courage.

Aug 24, 2010 10:46 pm

 BG, you remind me of a lawyer or a politician. 

Aug 24, 2010 11:46 pm

Tenth, and you remind me of every card pusher i've ever met at charity fund raisers. I guess that makes us even. Let's move on.

I have a question about your fixed income strategy. Why are you worried about portfolio volatility?

Aug 25, 2010 7:02 pm

With regards to golf, I only talk about golf. You are correct in saying folks just want to relax and play golf and not think about business.

If someone asks what I do, I say, " I own my own business, it is a small shop at X, I manage money for my clients, I specialize is small business, retirement, and my staff and I provide a lot of personal service, I've been doing it for X years, it is affiliated with Y b/d, and I love it."

End of elevator speech.

People who want to talk about something other than golf, usually like to talk about themselves. 

Never give out business cards, but do follow up with an email and LinkedIn connection, where appropriate (all personal).

Naturally, I do other things, too. These may appear in the book " Cold Calling is for Geeks". It will cost more than Nick Murray's book.

I'm curious, when was the last time you made a cold call? Are you a corporate trainer, or something?

Do you feel comfortable asking for referrals, and making it easy for your clients to give them?

You like to ignore most of what I feel are the substantial comments, maybe someone else would like to pick this up: Don't young people coming into our industry feel 'used' when they are asked to cold call, after investing in college, training, and sweat equity? That is the point, in addition to the idea that cold calling is tacky and invasive and old school.

Aug 25, 2010 7:12 pm

Sorry to change the subject here, but this is important.

Lord of the Rings, or Star Wars?

IMHO, Lord of the Rings is soooo much better. Star Wars is all style, no substance. But, the best debate on this subject can be found from the movie, Clerks 2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxAEo3CWeq8

Aug 25, 2010 9:27 pm

[quote=tenthtee]

With regards to golf, I only talk about golf. You are correct in saying folks just want to relax and play golf and not think about business.

If someone asks what I do, I say, " I own my own business, it is a small shop at X, I manage money for my clients, I specialize is small business, retirement, and my staff and I provide a lot of personal service, I've been doing it for X years, it is affiliated with Y b/d, and I love it."

End of elevator speech.

People who want to talk about something other than golf, usually like to talk about themselves. 

Never give out business cards, but do follow up with an email and LinkedIn connection, where appropriate (all personal).

Naturally, I do other things, too. These may appear in the book " Cold Calling is for Geeks". It will cost more than Nick Murray's book.

I'm curious, when was the last time you made a cold call? Are you a corporate trainer, or something?

Do you feel comfortable asking for referrals, and making it easy for your clients to give them?

You like to ignore most of what I feel are the substantial comments, maybe someone else would like to pick this up: Don't young people coming into our industry feel 'used' when they are asked to cold call, after investing in college, training, and sweat equity? That is the point, in addition to the idea that cold calling is tacky and invasive and old school.

[/quote]

What is the alternative??

A young person coming out of college can't :

1. afford to join a country club to develop leads

2. develop their former coworkers because they don't have any

3 rely on previous business contacts, again because they don't have any

4. Get referrals, because they have no clients

5. Rely on friends, because they too just graduated college...

To me and it was once compared on here to a first year lawyer...

1. You do the summer internship at the law firm you want to work at (for advisors that would be getting hired and initial training stages)

2. Get hired as an attorney at said firm and begin to build billable hours, working many nights while partners leave early (advisors start to prospecting(seminars, door knocking, coldcalling) to build a pipeline of prospects and gain clients)

3. Attorney continues to work hard year 2-4 .. (advisor continues to prospect but also spend more time on clients(as they grow) and developing referrals))

Or something like that..

Aug 25, 2010 9:39 pm

When was the last time I cold called?

Today. The drugery of it! I hate it! But, my manger says it will make me a success. I sure hope he's right because this cold callin stuff....It sucks!

Are you a corporate trainer?

Nope, I'm just a lowly indian. I'm hoping to move up to assistant to the assistant trainer some day. I'm an old guy, but i still have dreams!!!!

Referrals? Man i wish i could get those. i hear they're the way to go, people just showin up with their $5,000 checks.  No calling, no arm bending, just real clean! Easy money! Damn! Could never figure that out! I guess you get a lot of that down at the club, huh?

On the cold calling thing? Cold calling doesn't need to be defended. No one is forced to cold call. So, i didn't ignore your comment, i chose not to respond to it.

However in the interest of detente, let me take a stab at this:

So you know, i get a lot of PMs here asking for help. Rookies have taken what i've posted on this site and along with some extra guidance have launched themselves off the pad to amazing heights with blazing speed. I'm impressed by several of these people. And i don't impress easy.  These people worked their asses off smilin' and dialin!'  In the last few years I've seen more than one cross the 400k mark by year 3. And, the trainees in my office? One did over $700k his fourth year. Imagine that, this Villanova grad took home 325k net in year four! All he did was dial the phone and ask people to buy something from him. And, even the ones doing 300k gross by year three, not bad!!!! Yeah, these college grads feel really used making six figure incomes, which for most of them is only the beginning.

Does that answer it for you?

You didn't answer my bond question.

Aug 25, 2010 10:46 pm

You're obviously being patronzing with the lowly Indian stuff, so I don't think we should continue on to bonds.

You and I move in different worlds. Anyone can get out of the office and create relationships, I'm sure a lot of this has to do with corporate control. By challenging you, I realize I'm taking on the whole wirehouse model.

For you young gunslingers out there who think you need to cold call to get into the business, there is a better way. You are free to roll the dice and risk having someone else accrete the fruits of your labor if you like, but there is a better way to become a professional in this industry, and signing up at a wirehouse bullpen is probably not the best first move if you want things like ownership, professionalism, better payout, and freedom.

The real issue is how do you get paid a salary to learn the business and become a producer. Many smaller shops could give you some work, but many of you have to stop believing the cold calling cowboy myth if you want to be working in this business in five years.

In that sense, I would hold Nick Murray accountable for being self-serving, in the way that he claims to be holding prospects accountable to themselves when he cold calls. If the profession is a nest, some of you have been pooping in it, and you old successful guys are witnessing change to the new model whether you like it or not.

But even having this conversation is just a diversion from work, so whatever you say, I'm sure you're comfortable and I respect you for your success. I'm not saying cold calling is evil, I'm just saying it cheapens us all as professionals. If you're not getting referrals, this could be a yellow blinking light. Not that you probably care. It's hard to have a real conversation on the boards and read your body language and get the big picture, when you are sarcastic and when you are real, or if you're really as big of a dick as you like to come off as here, but it really doesn't matter.

There's no point in us two rehashing our positions. I thought there might be some younger folks wanting to join into the discussion, but I realize the smart ones are probably busy making cold calls at your firm, or are learning at small RIA firms or independent b/d shops and aren't looking for ideas or conversation here.

Aug 25, 2010 11:10 pm

Here's a dirty little secret: People cold call because it works. Huge practices have been built using cold calling. Today huge practices ARE being built via cold calling. And, when you are an expert in a niche, i mean really good,  it's amazing how much money people, strangers, throw at you.

Here's news flash: cold calling is back. it's back big!!!!!

Here's one more tidbit for the uninformed. You know that blueblooded corporate titan client who gives you the thumbs up from across the table whenever you launch into your holier than thou cold callers are crooks speech? That guy just bought a bond from me. I did in two phone calls what took you 3 years to get done. And now you've got a problem. A problem you don't even know you have. Me! Over the next few months your client is going to get to see the wonder of me show. I  gotta tell ya, it's good, really good! And, when i'm done I'll have more of that client's assets than you do. That is, if you have any at all. But not to worry. You can still take him to lunch and more importantly, treat him to golf. After-all, it is about the love of the game.

Aug 26, 2010 5:45 am

If political correctness was not so annoying and taxing, I might feel sorry for you, BG.

Aug 26, 2010 10:33 pm

[quote=BondGuy]

Here's a dirty little secret: People cold call because it works. Huge practices have been built using cold calling. Today huge practices ARE being built via cold calling. And, when you are an expert in a niche, i mean really good,  it's amazing how much money people, strangers, throw at you.

Here's news flash: cold calling is back. it's back big!!!!!

Here's one more tidbit for the uninformed. You know that blueblooded corporate titan client who gives you the thumbs up from across the table whenever you launch into your holier than thou cold callers are crooks speech? That guy just bought a bond from me. I did in two phone calls what took you 3 years to get done. And now you've got a problem. A problem you don't even know you have. Me! Over the next few months your client is going to get to see the wonder of me show. I  gotta tell ya, it's good, really good! And, when i'm done I'll have more of that client's assets than you do. That is, if you have any at all. But not to worry. You can still take him to lunch and more importantly, treat him to golf. After-all, it is about the love of the game.

 +1.

One quick question...what is your dial to contact ratio?

[/quote]

Aug 27, 2010 5:11 pm

This business is about introducing yourself, asking if they have a need for the type of work you do, and asking them to take the next step (whatever that means in your process).  The key is making introductions.  Meeting someone at a networking event, golf course, calling them via a referral, calling them cold, knocking on their door, walking into their business, it does not matter.  When it all said and done, it comes back to making introductions.  And although there are different levels of quality introductions depending on the source, the biggest driver is still quantity.

Cold calling in itself in not unprofessional.  However, it can be done unprofessionally.  Same as all the other methods mentioned above.

Mar 30, 2011 3:03 pm

I'd love to see this thread get rolling again. Tenth you still around, I know BG is?

Apr 1, 2011 11:34 pm

Stockguy - I'm with you. Do you think Tenth is still trying to draft his answer to the bond question BG asked him? 

Jun 4, 2011 11:51 pm

My first post

I work at a wirehouse in CA.  We have just started a new program for trainees who are behind in production.

Guess what is required for those folks who need to catch up to meet their number?

Setting x number of appointments/day using the......................telephone

Jun 9, 2011 2:47 pm

I have been reading this thread between BG and TT.

I am just getting back into cold calling. When I frist started in the business in 1991 cold calling is all we did. It worked beautifully back then. Call on a local prefeerred stock was all it took to open an account. Many on the first call! While I think the days of the one call account opening are long gone(people are way more skeptical of Wall Street these days). I still believe cold calling can work to jump start a business. The lead time is probably longer than back in the early/mid 90's but I think it can still work if you have DISCIPLINE and DETERMINATION. Without those two elements you will never make it cold calling.

Let me give you guys a little background about me. I am a former wirehouse advisor who decided to leave my firm as the markets were recovering in 2009 to move to a more indepenedent firm. at the time I was doing about 400k in commissions. When I made the move I lost some very key accounts. It killed my business. Clients who I had for years who I built from 10k accounts in one case over 4mm decided to stay with my old firm. It hurt like hell and I was depressed for awhile but now I am fighting back and am going to rebuild via cold call and speaking engagements. It can be done and it will be done! beginning in July I am going to post a thread with my real world weekly results. I am going to give cold calling a year and see what my results are. If they are good I will keep doing it to get to the level I was formerly at and beyond.

ww

Jun 9, 2011 3:04 pm

will be very interesting to read...good luck

Jun 9, 2011 3:28 pm

Squash2,

When I begin in July, I am also going to try to mix it up and try some days with a product approach and some days with a service approach and keep records. We will see which one works better. I know from my past days Cold calling the product approach worked better. Appeal to their greed and get them hooked. callback one or two times and close them as quick as you can. I will never forget my first BM, "open an account with anything, because once they are a client you ALWAYS have the right to call them again"! Plus, in my expereince the service approach just take too long to close them for lack of urgency. I am going to start by approaching with product for the month of July to get my feet wet again. For a month at least I will try the service approach and see how it works. We will see how this will go.

ww

Jun 14, 2011 8:04 pm

I spit up my coffee when I saw the line about the Chamber. Man, what a waste of time! I went to every single Chamber event for about four months. TheThe main positive that came out of it was the occassional free beverage. I did make a few friends, but I did not make much for money.

Jun 14, 2011 10:24 pm

WW, good luck! I too will be intersted in how well you do. Look at newguy44's post on on the Prospecting thread. Also, search for DMAN another rookie sensation who grabed cold calling by the balls, so to speak!

I think tenth was a temporary name for a guy who kept changing his screen name from one arguement to the next. Unfortunately, many of those who posted on this thread, are no longer around.

Jun 15, 2011 6:18 am

Haha. How's that hope and change thing working out for you, BG? I thought you retired on your boat and sailed off to Camelot. Another year has just blown by.

Jun 15, 2011 4:01 pm

[quote=TimesSeven]

Haha. How's that hope and change thing working out for you, BG? I thought you retired on your boat and sailed off to Camelot. Another year has just blown by.

[/quote]

Only made it as far as Conception Island.

Jun 15, 2011 4:28 pm

Nice! It's hard to quit.

I have a question about your fixed income strategy. Why are you worried about portfolio volatility?

I still have my concerns, not AKA Bill Gross crazy, but I do believe this president (your president) and his friends are running the economy up on a coral reef.

We have had a nice equity run, and I'm using short to intermediate stuff like BSV, BND, AGG, TIP - without fear.

We witness the attack on Boeing by the NLRB in Seattle and wonder what this president is thinking, and then see him campaigning in PR and know it is all about political power and the next election. Not strictly good for investing, but I remain optimistic in the Nick Murray sense about the long-term power of equities.

And of course, without volatility, clients wouldn't need us.

Jun 17, 2011 1:19 pm

Who said anything about quiting?

My question still stands. here we are almost three years later and interest rates aren't goin up anytime soon. Lotta yield and profit left on the table by you manage to a mean guys. Sure sounds good to clients though. Shame they don't wake up to the fact that it's the blind leading the blind. If their advisors could think beyond their asset allocation programs and had at least a set of medium sized balls maybe they could have made some money instead of getting the milktoast ride.

So, I guess my question is How's that short term thinking working for you?

Jun 17, 2011 3:31 pm

Check it out, it's milquetoast.

The ballsiest bond guy right now is Bill Gross. He probably thinks you're dumb. On the other hand, we'll see who is right.

I prefer to keep the fixed short to intermediate as much to hedge geopolitical risk as interest rate risk - it's easy to look back and claim you are a genius because you didn't go short too soon, and maybe you are in the business of scurrying to the exits if things get scary (inflation #s kick up, if and when the printing of money and the debt catch up to real interest rates, aka Bill Gross thought).

I'll take my risk in equities, and some real there for that matter, using shorter term fixed to "hedge" that risk ( the more conservative stuff can go up when stocks plummet). Now that trailing P/E ratios are your Progressive debt are high, we may see some increased volatility.

Who is calling who a pussy? You're just doing what you always do. Just like you encourage guys to cold call, or maybe even teach them how, and then when they blow out you keep the accounts. Cold calling guys and pitching a bond yield is so old-fashioned. Like eating milk toast every day. You can rationalize your strategies by saying, if you hold everything to maturity, you will get your yield. How ironic that you would mentor young people while attacking social networking as a real way to build a consultative business, and make fun of people deploying bond strategies different than your middle of the road retail sellling.

You never answered my question, how's that hope and change thing working out for you?

Jun 17, 2011 3:56 pm

Moderator where are you????

What is the title of this thread guys?

I need help, not a lesson on spelling or the yield curve

Thanks

Jun 17, 2011 4:25 pm

We have a real d**# measuring competition here. I feel like I am sitting at Harry's listing to a 22 year-old trading assistant.

Jun 17, 2011 5:34 pm

You're right. Sorry. Carry on!

Jun 17, 2011 6:00 pm

I had hoped posting......what a mistake.  These types of forums which are all over the web now are alot like TV.

I have learned good things here as a lurker but I think some of you would agree it's often not worth sorting thru the drivel and vomit to get to it, as evidenced by some of the recent posts.  Good luck to all.  Almost all of us are going to need it.  My last post

Jun 21, 2011 12:36 am

THX for the French version, but check it out, I was using it as an adjective not a noun.

 I guess I've got to ask, for a guy who doesn't cold call, why would you even waste one second reading a thread entitled "Nick Murray Prospecting Script?"

As for Billy Ray- Goodbye and good luck. This thread derailed over a year ago, so what's the problem? And, the drival on this thread ain't nothin' compared to how things were a few years ago. You needed a pretty thick skin to dare to post. But, most are gone, one way or another. With RR forums you get use to taking the good with the bad. There's not enough of one and too much of the other. That's the challenge.