The Mutual Fund Store
I’ve been running into this place a lot recently. I’m amazed that people will listen to some guy they’ve never met in person and let him decide what they’re going to invest in.
Does anyone know how their system works? What I envision is Adam Bold sitting down at his computer looking at funds, then telling his advisors what their portfolios are going to be. The schmucks at the local Mutual Fund Store answers the phone during the call in show, sets appts, then signs people up. He probably doesn't have a clue why or how the portfolios are set up, he just knows how to push the right buttons on the keyboard. From what I've gathered, service is awful. Fees are average. Performance is blah. Does anyone out there know any more about this place than I've been able to gather? Any skeletons in the closet? It's never small money that I see there. Usually $250K+ portfolios.Don’t know any skeletons. Bold pushes the whole angle over and over that his folks aren’t paid a commission, just “a small fee”, and talks constantly about their asset allocation process. Maybe that’s why they draw bigger accounts.
Adam Holt is a joke. I was listening to him a couple months ago when he said Edward Jones advisors had used Lehman Brother bonds to leverage client portfolios and then use the proceeds to fund risky mortgage backed paper (what?). In the very next call he took, he thought stable value funds were made up of 2-week treasury bills. Idiot.
Here's his pitch....stocks bad, bonds bad, CD's bad, load mutual funds bad, UIT's bad, everything except his advisory platform bad. What's even funnier? The mutual fund store closest to my office was taken over by an Edward Jones broker that failed within 6 months. What a joke.I've never heard his show. His advice may be a joke, but as a business person, he's probably first rate. If I'm not mistaken, he's Schwab's #1 RIA.
I know absolutely zero about the MF Store. I don’t think they have offices near me, and they definitely don’t advertise. But I looked at their fund list. I have to say they have some damn good funds in their arsenal (they also have some dogs like Magellan). I don’t know how they operate in terms of fees, advice, etc. But if they are coming up with well-balanced portfolios from the list that I saw (link attached), it’s not the worst thing someone could do. And it would be tough to talk down a portfolio consisting of these funds. I’ll be honest - it’s far better than the crap I see coming in from some wirehouses and indies around here, and better than what a lot of Jones advisors do (I’m not poo-pooing us or the wires or indies - I’m just saying that their fund list is pretty impressive). JMHO.
http://www.mutualfundshow.com/funds/index.asp Oh, and he uses both load and no-load families, so I don't think he claims that load funds per se are bad, just PAYING a load is bad (of course, I've never even heard him speak).Can we get his name right, Adam Bold(not defending) got this from his website
Fee-based: Because we receive a quarterly fee based upon the assets we manage for a client, our advisors are motivated to monitor the portfolio on an ongoing basis. Furthermore, our advisors are bound by their fiduciary responsibility to keep their clients’ interest first. Serve the everyday American: Our clients open investment accounts with as little as $50,000 and have access to thousands of no-load and load-waived mutual funds. This allows us to manage money for the typical mutual fund investor. He is just a RIA, probably charges 1% or higher, and now he is talking about franchise opportunities(nice jargon, wrong industry) where you can go work for him in one of the stores. I have never run into anyone who uses these peopleIt may be tempting to write him off as a joke or “just an RIA,” but he has more than $4 billion in AUM. Whether or not you agree with his fund picks or his take on the underlying securities in a given fund, he’s certainly running a successful business.
Do the math: if he averaged only 1% on AUM he is generating more than $40 million gross. And that doesn’t even include the franchise fee revenues.
If there’s a joke involved here, I think he’s the one that’s doing the laughing … all the way to the proverbial bank.
B24 - Thanks for the quick link. I would have eventually found it, but you saved me some time.
I've spent some time on his website and figured out that rank is exactly right. He doesn't like annuities, individual stocks, UITs, ETFs, strategic allocation funds, SMAs, and pretty much everything else except his particular way of investing. He actually told some caller that unless you have $5,000,000 to $10,000,000 that you shouldn't own ANY individual stocks. If you click on the link that B24 put up, look for the investment topics link and then find the one that says market bottom. This idiot actually put out there on the public airwaves that the market had reached the bottom. IN MARCH!!! The guy is a marketing genius. Tell everyone that all advisors, except him, are money hungry, commission driven beasts that only sell you what they can make the most on. Say it over and over again on the radio and eventually people will believe it. They will then call your local branch and move money to you because you are the genius on the radio. OK, so how would you guys go after prospects that currently work with this bozo? You're certainly not going to win them over by telling them how big an idiot this guy is. They'll just figure you're a money hungry broker who's looking out for #1. I've got three prospects that have money with this guy right now. Total is about $1.3MM. Those would be nice assets to get in here in January.I think you could do three things. And all of these depend on the portfolio and how you want to look…
A. Worst case scenario(IMO) compete with him on the fee(ie they charge 1.5 you go 1.00). But then i think that might get you into a bigger problem(on an ongoing basis) B. Show a client a portfolio of the investments they own, and if they started investing in 98 2001,2002 and show them how much money they would have today(I am guessing equal to or less than what they put in) and then explain the idea of a VA and the income guarantees/death benefit. C. Warren Buffet owns stocks, why can't they. After all mutual funds are just stocks. D. I would go with alternative assets here, but since you are with EDJ, kind of out of the question. E. Somehow relate that your EDJ office is more personable and client focused, then the big bad Mutual Fund Store(too many clients, turnover of key personel, hold times etc..)Well, I am assuming based on seeing their funds, that the investments are pretty good. So I don’t think you can use that angle. But I am not sure how “tailored” their approach is to clients. In other words, I don’t think they do a lot of “planning”. So maybe their investments are OK, but they just need more planning, and possibly more investment solutions to address their specific needs (i.e. annuities, insurance, whatever).
The one other thing is to possibly get them on board by avoiding the advisory fee. Maybe they are bothered by the fees they are paying. You don't have to bash the fees, but maybe paying 2.5% once would be better than paying 1% every year (in their mind). You just have to find their pain.[quote=Spaceman Spiff]B24 - Thanks for the quick link. I would have eventually found it, but you saved me some time.
I've spent some time on his website and figured out that rank is exactly right. He doesn't like annuities, individual stocks, UITs, ETFs, strategic allocation funds, SMAs, and pretty much everything else except his particular way of investing. He actually told some caller that unless you have $5,000,000 to $10,000,000 that you shouldn't own ANY individual stocks. If you click on the link that B24 put up, look for the investment topics link and then find the one that says market bottom. This idiot actually put out there on the public airwaves that the market had reached the bottom. IN MARCH!!! The guy is a marketing genius. Tell everyone that all advisors, except him, are money hungry, commission driven beasts that only sell you what they can make the most on. Say it over and over again on the radio and eventually people will believe it. They will then call your local branch and move money to you because you are the genius on the radio. OK, so how would you guys go after prospects that currently work with this bozo? You're certainly not going to win them over by telling them how big an idiot this guy is. They'll just figure you're a money hungry broker who's looking out for #1. I've got three prospects that have money with this guy right now. Total is about $1.3MM. Those would be nice assets to get in here in January. [/quote] Are his clients in his mutual fund plan only successful when the market goes up? If so, I'd hate to be in that position with these markets. Why don't you ask your prospects that?I would also focus on distribution phase(ie retirement if applicable) show them what happens when you start taking 3,4,5% a year and when the market crashes what that income turns into.
B24 is right, probably not a lot of focus on the planning over there. Asset allocation probably but not actual planningi guess i would try to find out WHY they are talking to you in the first place, if they love this other “advisor” and agree with his philosophy. there has to be something they don’t like or they would not be listening to you in the first place, and use that info to your advantage.
[quote=rankstocks]Adam Holt is a joke. I was listening to him a couple months ago when he said Edward Jones advisors had used Lehman Brother bonds to leverage client portfolios and then use the proceeds to fund risky mortgage backed paper (what?). In the very next call he took, he thought stable value funds were made up of 2-week treasury bills. Idiot.
Here's his pitch....stocks bad, bonds bad, CD's bad, load mutual funds bad, UIT's bad, everything except his advisory platform bad. What's even funnier? The mutual fund store closest to my office was taken over by an Edward Jones broker that failed within 6 months. What a joke. [/quote] Did he fail at Jones or the Mutual Fund Store?I think this guy has a great niche. We can find bad in anything out there, but this guy is a true entreprenuer. Same as Fisher Investments and Ron Carson. They develop a business model and push it, kinda like doorknocking all day. Leave it up to a joneser (rankstocks) to bash the store, makes them feel better. Its bread into the culture.
So...Spiffy, what makes you think you can do these clients any good in this environment? Is this to better their portfolio (they offer some great funds) or to better your gross for January?[quote=Spaceman Spiff]I’ve been running into this place a lot recently. I’m amazed that people will listen to some guy they’ve never met in person and let him decide what they’re going to invest in.
Does anyone know how their system works? What I envision is Adam Bold sitting down at his computer looking at funds, then telling his advisors what their portfolios are going to be. The schmucks at the local Mutual Fund Store answers the phone during the call in show, sets appts, then signs people up. He probably doesn't have a clue why or how the portfolios are set up, he just knows how to push the right buttons on the keyboard. From what I've gathered, service is awful. Fees are average. Performance is blah. Does anyone out there know any more about this place than I've been able to gather? Any skeletons in the closet? It's never small money that I see there. Usually $250K+ portfolios. [/quote] Have you listened to podcasts of the Mutual Fund Show? The guy's the Cramer of mutual funds. I'd imagine he knows a tad bit more about how and why to construct a portfolio than you're giving him credit for. He puts his expertise on display every week on the radio, and apparently folks with a lot of money are buying what he's selling.So we should not prospect anyone until this market ends because we cannot help them? I think that is a terrible statement. I think you can help people, by repositioning assets(reallocation) finding if they were in the right allocation to begin with.
Client xfering in $84K today(yeah kinda small), but they had $175K in dec 31, 2007. They are 62, and only 10% bonds/fixed income in the portfolio(and that was high yield funds), the rest equities(some bad stuff too, funds that closed, got renamed, some Jones preffered(just kidding... but not really)). Had they been allocated properly or had the advisor kept a better eye on the investments they held, I would like to think, that their portfolio wouldn't been in shambles. So we find out what their risk tolerance is combine that with age,assets and goals, and build a plan for the future..Well dipshit…if you would have read SPiffs question…he was looking for an ANGLE to discredit Money Store. If it was all about basic allocation models, I think Spiff would have tried that already.
WE all have accts (unless you've been prospecting for less than a year) where the portfolios are in terrible shape, especially from the last 2 months. What you say in your thread is so f ing "duh" I can't control myself. Your repositioning is a commission comment. Like I said before, we can find bad in ANY portfolio. I bet I could, within a very short time, find fault in several of YOUR portfolios Squash, but doesn't necessarily make you a bad advisor. How long you been helpin people with their allocations...3 weeks?So you know they have an account at the mutual fund store. Have you asked them why? Based off of their answer try to come up with something brilliant. Or you could just offer up that you can handle those same funds in the account that they have with you already. See what they say. That may or may not be a light bulb for the client. Awful nice to know where those clients have 1.3mm for future reference.
I got it Spiff.
I cancelled all of my appointments today and didn't take any phone calls so that I could think about this for you. Send your Mutual Fund Store prospects this book: http://www.amazon.com/Great-Mutual-Fund-Trap-Investment/dp/0767910729/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228955304&sr=1-1[quote=jkl1v1n6]
So you know they have an account at the mutual fund store. Have you asked them why? Based off of their answer try to come up with something brilliant. Or you could just offer up that you can handle those same funds in the account that they have with you already. See what they say. That may or may not be a light bulb for the client. Awful nice to know where those clients have 1.3mm for future reference.
[/quote] That's great advice, whateverthehellyournameis, but that ain't how this story's gonna end. Those funds will be liquidated so fast it'll make your head swim--before they get to Jones, of course--and then the cash is going into Advisory Solutions or A shares. Trust me on this one.Is it just me or does anyone else feel like “The Mutual Fund Store” is about the Kraft Macaroni and Cheesiest firm name you’ve ever heard? Why not call yourself Fund-Mart Investment Management or Funds R Us? Apparently, $40 billion dollar’s worth of clients think it’s just fine, but it sounds pretty gay to me.
[quote=Indyone]Is it just me or does anyone else feel like “The Mutual Fund Store” is about the Kraft Macaroni and Cheesiest firm name you’ve ever heard? Why not call yourself Fund-Mart Investment Management or Funds R Us? Apparently, $40 billion dollar’s worth of clients think it’s just fine, but it sounds pretty gay to me.[/quote]
That would only be about $4 B in AUM (if one can use the word “only” when speaking of $4 B), not $40 B. Still a lot.
And FWIW, I recall having the same reaction to the name when I first saw it. I still don’t like it, but you can’t argue with the results he’s achieved. Walmart is a pretty goofy name too, when you think about it.
True enough Borker boy!
[quote=bspears]
I think this guy has a great niche. We can find bad in anything out there, but this guy is a true entreprenuer. Same as Fisher Investments and Ron Carson. They develop a business model and push it, kinda like doorknocking all day. Leave it up to a joneser (rankstocks) to bash the store, makes them feel better. Its bread into the culture.
So...Spiffy, what makes you think you can do these clients any good in this environment? Is this to better their portfolio (they offer some great funds) or to better your gross for January?[/quote] He does have a great marketing plan. And it obviously works for him. So as far as that goes he is a great businessman. As to rank's post, since I didn't hear that particular discussion on the radio I don't have the ability to say whether it's true or not. But the couple of times I've caught the guy on the radio in the past, he's never gone out of his way to say anything nice about EDJ. So, if that's what rank heard, then I would completely understand why he said what he did. I don't have much to complain about with these folks about the funds they own. Some of them are funds I use (OIBAX, OPSIX) in my own portfolios. Some of them are funds in our Advisory Solutions platform (OIBAX, MADVX, EXEYX). Now, I do have issues with his asset allocation. In the couple of portfolios I've seen, he only uses high yield and strategic income type bond funds. No treasury or highly rated bonds to speak of. He also tends to lean more to the aggressive side. At least according to the Jones model and the people I've had meetings with. Maybe that works great in good markets, but not so well in markets like this. So, what can I do to help them in this environment? Well, one of the couples I suggested they take what money they have in the MFD Store and move it into a VA with an income rider. In July. The wife is on board, but the husband said he doesn't see the value. And he can't see paying me a commission in a down market. Now their account is down 40%. But, Adam Bold doesn't believe in VAs, so there's no benefit to them. So, different investment strategies, actual planning, better service, and of course my smiling face are all things I think I can deliver to these people. I've known that all along. My purpose with this original post was to maybe learn something else that I can use. Thanks for all of the great, and not so great, responses.[quote=Borker Boy][quote=jkl1v1n6]
So you know they have an account at the mutual fund store. Have you asked them why? Based off of their answer try to come up with something brilliant. Or you could just offer up that you can handle those same funds in the account that they have with you already. See what they say. That may or may not be a light bulb for the client. Awful nice to know where those clients have 1.3mm for future reference.
[/quote] That's great advice, whateverthehellyournameis, but that ain't how this story's gonna end. Those funds will be liquidated so fast it'll make your head swim--before they get to Jones, of course--and then the cash is going into Advisory Solutions or A shares. Trust me on this one.[/quote] Borker, most likely, many of the funds are advisor-class shares and would have to be liquidated unless they were held in the advisory program at Jones. Most load-waived and institutional share classes cannot be held outside of advisory platforms. Not sure what share classes they use, but just a thought. I know when I've brought some funds from other firms that were in advisory, I could not hold many of them. Good attitude, by the way.[quote=Borker Boy][quote=jkl1v1n6]
So you know they have an account at the mutual fund store. Have you asked them why? Based off of their answer try to come up with something brilliant. Or you could just offer up that you can handle those same funds in the account that they have with you already. See what they say. That may or may not be a light bulb for the client. Awful nice to know where those clients have 1.3mm for future reference.
[/quote] That's great advice, whateverthehellyournameis, but that ain't how this story's gonna end. Those funds will be liquidated so fast it'll make your head swim--before they get to Jones, of course--and then the cash is going into Advisory Solutions or A shares. Trust me on this one.[/quote] And what would you do with it, oh wise one? B24 is right. Some of them can't be held at Jones, so if I want those people as clients, and they want me as their advisor, they'll have to be liquidated before they come to Jones.Long story short…churn and burn baby!!!
Your repositioning is a commission comment. - Bspears
I guess is I charged commission on everything like you do at Jones it would be. But it doesn't cost the client anything to reposition and find better investments, I am not making anymore money by repositioning the assets than I am by keeping their same assets. Are you grumpy because all of the preferred funds crashed? And did so worse than if your clients had just purchase the index?spears doesn't work for Jones anymore, so he doesn't charge people commissions to move money to him. Evidently he works for free at LPL.
Not to get this thread any more off track than it already is, but which index are your referring to? And which preferred funds specifically are you referring to? When you say "all of the preferred funds crashed" you're paiting with a pretty wide, and inaccurate, brush. I'll give you an example. In the growth and income category we have 18 preferred funds. 7 of them are down more than the S&P, Russell 1000, and the Morningstar Large value index as of the end of Nov. I'm sure if I took the time to look the rest of them, I'd find the same thing. So, saying that clients would have been better off buying the index is an inaccurate, and foolish, statement. Perhaps you should clarify what you really meant to say.I can't find my damn list... But shooting in the dark, I would say 95% Putnam, 80% Van Kampen, 75% (Franklin, Goldman)
And by index not just the S&P 500, but add in every other index(it seems etfs are the cheapest way to go about this now). I don't disagree that "some" actively managed funds have achieved better results, however most of those aren't on the Jones preferred list. And it was more of a shot at Spears, for the "repositioning statements is for commissions" comment.Ice - I knew you’d throw your hat into this ring. I’ve actually been giving some thought to the whole index vs active fund idea. Seems that when you run our Advisory Solutions ETF/Index model against our fund based model for the last year (I know, short term, but I can’t go back 5 years with historical data with the ETFs) the ETF platform outperforms. By 5% to boot. Makes a very happy managed money guy scratch his head. And to bring this back to the MFS, if Mr. Bold thinks they’re bad, I guess it’s one way I can talk with these folks and offer them something different.
And Squash's comment about all of the preferred funds being down more than "the index" is absolutely inaccurate and foolish. You, however, may be right. I guess if I only work with .xx% of the people out there and let you have the rest of them I can just keep going about my business as usual.[quote=Squash1]
I can't find my damn list... But shooting in the dark, I would say 95% Putnam, 80% Van Kampen, 75% (Franklin, Goldman)
And by index not just the S&P 500, but add in every other index(it seems etfs are the cheapest way to go about this now). I don't disagree that "some" actively managed funds have achieved better results, however most of those aren't on the Jones preferred list. And it was more of a shot at Spears, for the "repositioning statements is for commissions" comment. [/quote] Putnam - not a preferred fund any longer. Jones just sent an email to all of us basically telling us to get out of Putnam. Goldman and Franklin - Wrong again. Perhaps if you reverse your percentages you'd be more in line. Van Kampen - Maybe half of them are worse than their indexes right now. I don't use them a lot anymore, so I don't follow them too much. I just took a quick look at my chart. And I agree, ETFs are the cheapest way to go about this now. Perhaps not the best (sorry ice, I'm not quite with you yet), but certainly the cheapest.Spiff,
Didn't you answer your own question a little bit ago. Nothing wrong with funds but your asset allocation isn't what you'd recommend. There's your angle, then show them what you can do and why. I don't know anything about Jones' Advisory platform but isn't it around 1.5%, that's not horrible for fees, unless that's before fund expenses, and my guess is you could show him how you could keep some of the funds that he's in.Sorry I don’t get the updates anymore on the LIST, I have my list from 2 years ago. Hey is Van Kampen Strategic Growth(or whatever fund it is now) still on the list…
[quote=Spaceman Spiff][quote=Borker Boy][quote=jkl1v1n6]
So you know they have an account at the mutual fund store. Have you asked them why? Based off of their answer try to come up with something brilliant. Or you could just offer up that you can handle those same funds in the account that they have with you already. See what they say. That may or may not be a light bulb for the client. Awful nice to know where those clients have 1.3mm for future reference.
[/quote] That's great advice, whateverthehellyournameis, but that ain't how this story's gonna end. Those funds will be liquidated so fast it'll make your head swim--before they get to Jones, of course--and then the cash is going into Advisory Solutions or A shares. Trust me on this one.[/quote] And what would you do with it, oh wise one? I realize you'll retort that "you don't work for free," but since they have access to as many funds (probably many more) as you do, why not do just a tad of pro bono work and give them a little advice on how you'd allocate them in what they already own? I know you're salivating at the idea of bringing over the assets, but could you advise someone to sell right now and still sleep at night? Advisors are just as culpable in hurting investors' returns as DIYers are due to our constant hunt for something to liquidate and transfer. We preach buy and hold, but we're constantly looking for accounts to liquidate, transfer in and then reinvest. All for the sake of one more fat commission. B24 is right. Some of them can't be held at Jones, so if I want those people as clients, and they want me as their advisor, they'll have to be liquidated before they come to Jones. [/quote][quote=Borker Boy][quote=Spaceman Spiff][quote=Borker Boy][quote=jkl1v1n6]
So you know they have an account at the mutual fund store. Have you asked them why? Based off of their answer try to come up with something brilliant. Or you could just offer up that you can handle those same funds in the account that they have with you already. See what they say. That may or may not be a light bulb for the client. Awful nice to know where those clients have 1.3mm for future reference.
[/quote] That's great advice, whateverthehellyournameis, but that ain't how this story's gonna end. Those funds will be liquidated so fast it'll make your head swim--before they get to Jones, of course--and then the cash is going into Advisory Solutions or A shares. Trust me on this one.[/quote] And what would you do with it, oh wise one? I realize you'll retort that "you don't work for free," but since they have access to as many funds (probably many more) as you do, why not do just a tad of pro bono work and give them a little advice on how you'd allocate them in what they already own? I know you're salivating at the idea of bringing over the assets, but could you advise someone to sell right now and still sleep at night? - Yes. It's not like we're telling people to move money out their mutual funds and put it in cash for the rest of their lives. Or moving to something that is at it's 52 week high. It's a sell low, buy low process. It's the same thing I'd do if the market weren't down 40% this year. It's just like when I moved my checking account from Commerce Bank to US Bank. My checkbook changed, but not the amount of cash I had. If I were only looking at it from a commission standpoint, I'd tell them to leave it where it is and come back to me when it grows back to what it was before. That way I'd get paid what I originally thought I was back in August. The other problem with that scenario and this particular thread is that the MFS uses some pretty obscure fund families that may only have one or two funds in their lineup. Sure, if someone transfers in say, Pioneer, I could shuffle some things around that fund family and do the work for no cost. But if it's FBR, who only has 10 funds total, and a bunch of them are niche funds, you're kind of stuck. So, you do what you have to do. Also, I don't want to look up one day after 5 and find that I've got 300 different funds out there that my clients own and I'm now responsible for tracking. I just choose to run my business differently. Advisors are just as culpable in hurting investors' returns as DIYers are due to our constant hunt for something to liquidate and transfer. We preach buy and hold, but we're constantly looking for accounts to liquidate, transfer in and then reinvest. All for the sake of one more fat commission. B24 is right. Some of them can't be held at Jones, so if I want those people as clients, and they want me as their advisor, they'll have to be liquidated before they come to Jones. [/quote] [/quote] I'm continually amazed at what I perceive as anti broker statements. Like the "one more fat commission" one. Perhaps it's just anti-Jones. But you really need to figure out who you want to work for or what industry you want to be in. I can't imagine making a living doing what we do with thoughts like that floating through my head.[quote=iceco1d]Borker,
I must be missing something here. Can't you guys transfer directly into your Advisory platform? Then tweak what you want, liquidate, hold, rebalance, whatever it is that you want to recommend? Furthermore, do you see a problem with that? Hell, what if you leave 90% of the portfolio where it is, but the client wants to come to you because you'll help them with X, Y, Z also...whats the problem there? Maybe I'm missing something. [/quote] Without knowing what the MFS clients own, I can't comment as to whether they'll transfer. But if 90% of the funds would transfer in kind, then that's obviously a totally different situation. (And in the future, please refer to me as Oh Wise One.)
I’m more anti-criminal than anything. Sorry I stepped on your toes.
I see this as …SPiffy=Darth Vader and Borker=Luke Skywalker…
I guess that would make you Princess Lea.
[quote=Borker Boy][quote=iceco1d]Borker,
I must be missing something here. Can't you guys transfer directly into your Advisory platform? Then tweak what you want, liquidate, hold, rebalance, whatever it is that you want to recommend? Furthermore, do you see a problem with that? Hell, what if you leave 90% of the portfolio where it is, but the client wants to come to you because you'll help them with X, Y, Z also...whats the problem there? Maybe I'm missing something. [/quote] Without knowing what the MFS clients own, I can't comment as to whether they'll transfer. But if 90% of the funds would transfer in kind, then that's obviously a totally different situation. (And in the future, please refer to me as Oh Wise One.) [/quote] Here's what one of the clients owns: MDDVX,UMBIX,FBRVX,KSCVX,WWNPX,LAALX,EXEYX,FMIEX,BHYSX,NEFZX,OIBAX,OPSIX The bolded ones can't be held in firm name. They represent 35% of the holdings. In theory we could transfer the rest in-kind and petition the Advisory Solutions people to let us use them in place of a similar fund in the lineup. I've not done that yet, so I don't know how open they are to that idea.
[quote=iceco1d]Borker,
I must be missing something here. Can't you guys transfer directly into your Advisory platform? Then tweak what you want, liquidate, hold, rebalance, whatever it is that you want to recommend? [/quote] Only cash -- not funds -- can go into Advisory Solutions. And there's no tweaking, liquidating, rebalancing done by the FA. It's done by the Advisory Solutions committee.
That is not exactly true. The broker can do some tweaking in advisory solutions. We can replace a fund we don’t like with one we do. I believe only cash can go into advisory.
[quote=buyandhold][quote=iceco1d]Borker,
I must be missing something here. Can't you guys transfer directly into your Advisory platform? Then tweak what you want, liquidate, hold, rebalance, whatever it is that you want to recommend? [/quote] Only cash -- not funds -- can go into Advisory Solutions. And there's no tweaking, liquidating, rebalancing done by the FA. It's done by the Advisory Solutions committee. [/quote] How convenient.
[quote=buyandhold][quote=iceco1d]Borker,
I must be missing something here. Can't you guys transfer directly into your Advisory platform? Then tweak what you want, liquidate, hold, rebalance, whatever it is that you want to recommend? [/quote] Only cash -- not funds -- can go into Advisory Solutions. And there's no tweaking, liquidating, rebalancing done by the FA. It's done by the Advisory Solutions committee. [/quote] Wrong again. If there are funds held by the client elsewhere, that are part of our advisory program, we can bring them directly into the advisory account. And if we choose to do a custom model (versus a Jones model), then you can do what you want with them. If you use the Jones model, they will auto-rebalance to whatever their asset allocation is.
[quote=Borker Boy][quote=buyandhold][quote=iceco1d]Borker,
I must be missing something here. Can't you guys transfer directly into your Advisory platform? Then tweak what you want, liquidate, hold, rebalance, whatever it is that you want to recommend? [/quote] Only cash -- not funds -- can go into Advisory Solutions. And there's no tweaking, liquidating, rebalancing done by the FA. It's done by the Advisory Solutions committee. [/quote] How convenient.[/quote] It doesn't matter whether you bring cash or securities into an advisory account. You still get paid the same thing. There's no incentive to either lquidate or not liquidate.
Why not focus on the ETF portfolio you offer and compare management fees to etf costs.
Geez. Has anyone transferred funds “in kind” into Advisory Solutions? Noone seems to have a clue about the exact protocol.
I know there are a ton of old A shares going in, but that's a whole other animal.Do tell us about this whole other animal. I'm curious. After all of those years in A shares, why is it better for them now? Not trying to be an a**, just want to hear how it is explained to the client.
Jesus Borker. There’s like 13,000 Jones FA’s out there, and like 5 of them post on this board. WTF do you expect? Why don’t you either jsut look it up or call STL and ask. It’s pretty freakin simple. If the fund is one that is in the program, you can transfer it in. If not, you have to liquidate and move the cash in, then use the program funds.
ICE, we have a list of about 160 funds/ETF’s. If you chose a custom portfolio, you can use whatever funds you want, but you have to stay within general allocation guidelines. Since they are trying to maintain this as a true Advisory/Asset Allocation program, they want to make sure that people are using a reasonable methodology to come up with their recommendations. It’s supposed to be more than a wrap account with whatever you feel like putting in it. Right or wrong, it’s brand new, and like most things they do, they are trying to maintain some control over it. I would love to be able to do it my own way, and use allocation funds (i.e. First Eagle, Blackrock,etc.) with satellite funds around it. However, they are currently focusing on pretty strict asset allocation . I think their biggest fear is liability for recommendations within an “advisory” platform. It’s not perfect, but it’s a great start. And the funds they have screened into the program are very good.
As far as the asset allocation, there is some flexibility. First, they have many different AA models. But the guidelines are pretty “high level” - X% in Growth, X% in G&I, X% in Income, etc. But within those categories, you can allocate (for example) to small cap, mid cap, large cap, int’l, domestic, Commodities, etc. based on your discretion. You also have maximums you can allocate to any one fund (like 40% I think?).
It’s a better program than knuckleheads like Borker think.
I’ve said nothing derogatory about the quality of the program…or you, for that matter.
You're doing what's right and you know what you're doing. That's obvious.Wow a whole 160 funds to choose from.......I could get lost in all those choices myself.....how could I ever decide......If you knew what the platforms are outside in the real world you would understand how limited you are......Jesus Borker. There’s like 13,000 Jones FA’s out there, and like 5 of them post on this board. WTF do you expect? Why don’t you either jsut look it up or call STL and ask. It’s pretty freakin simple. If the fund is one that is in the program, you can transfer it in. If not, you have to liquidate and move the cash in, then use the program funds.
ICE, we have a list of about 160 funds/ETF’s. If you chose a custom portfolio, you can use whatever funds you want, but you have to stay within general allocation guidelines. Since they are trying to maintain this as a true Advisory/Asset Allocation program, they want to make sure that people are using a reasonable methodology to come up with their recommendations. It’s supposed to be more than a wrap account with whatever you feel like putting in it. Right or wrong, it’s brand new, and like most things they do, they are trying to maintain some control over it. I would love to be able to do it my own way, and use allocation funds (i.e. First Eagle, Blackrock,etc.) with satellite funds around it. However, they are currently focusing on pretty strict asset allocation . I think their biggest fear is liability for recommendations within an “advisory” platform. It’s not perfect, but it’s a great start. And the funds they have screened into the program are very good.
As far as the asset allocation, there is some flexibility. First, they have many different AA models. But the guidelines are pretty “high level” - X% in Growth, X% in G&I, X% in Income, etc. But within those categories, you can allocate (for example) to small cap, mid cap, large cap, int’l, domestic, Commodities, etc. based on your discretion. You also have maximums you can allocate to any one fund (like 40% I think?).
It’s a better program than knuckleheads like Borker think.
Guys, I’m not disagreeing. I made the statement that it was a good start. It’s a long way from where we were. It bugs the crap out of me that we only have 160 funds. See, I explained in my post that there were things about it I didn’t like, such as lack of choices. But here we go with the “If you knew what you don’t know crap”. I AM familiar with other platforms. I KNOW that most of them are “open architecture”. I was simply explaining to ICE how it worked, since he asked. Get over it, Noggin.
Yes, ICE, you can use both the Advisory platform and SMA platform with NQ money. You have no say over re-balancing. It is threshold based. Once you decide the allocation, it will rebalance once the portfolio gets outside a certain threshold of the original allocation (in order to minimize transactions for obvious reasons).Ice, bottom line is the management knows the quality of shit they put in the offices, so they HAVE to control the access or they will have a bunch of car mechanics blowing up grandmas portfolio and then wash out and go back to mechanican…
It is rebalanced on a variation from the target allocation basis. If say the Growth and Income section gets more than 4% away from the target they will rebalance the whole portfolio back to the target. So, it could be once a quarter, once a month, or once a year. And yes we can do fee based for NQ money.
My question for you all, not just ice in particular, is who does the due diligence on those 1800 funds or however many funds you have in your platform? What process do they use to screen what funds they put in the platform? What guidelines do they give for asset allocation? It would have been pretty easy for Jones to just say they'll throw in all 120 firm name eligible fund families, plus allow any ETF or index funds and let the FAs do the fund research to figure out where to go from there. But they didn't. Like B24 said, it's not perfect, but it's a tremenous start.You do remember that they put YOU in one of the offices, don't you? Oh, wait. When you left and moved your office down the street you instantly became a financial wizard. You must have been the execption to the rule. Sorry, my bad.Ice, bottom line is the management knows the quality of shit they put in the offices, so they HAVE to control the access or they will have a bunch of car mechanics blowing up grandmas portfolio and then wash out and go back to mechanican…
[quote=Spaceman Spiff]It is rebalanced on a variation from the target allocation basis. If say the Growth and Income section gets more than 4% away from the target they will rebalance the whole portfolio back to the target. So, it could be once a quarter, once a month, or once a year. And yes we can do fee based for NQ money.
My question for you all, not just ice in particular, is who does the due diligence on those 1800 funds or however many funds you have in your platform? What process do they use to screen what funds they put in the platform? What guidelines do they give for asset allocation? It would have been pretty easy for Jones to just say they'll throw in all 120 firm name eligible fund families, plus allow any ETF or index funds and let the FAs do the fund research to figure out where to go from there. But they didn't. Like B24 said, it's not perfect, but it's a tremenous start. [/quote] Shouldn't you being doing that? So you blatantly trust the Jones team to pick which are the best funds(Putnam, Van kampen??) And not worry about "pay to play" coming into the equation. "This fund doesn't exactly measure up but they gave us $5 million to use so we will throw it in there" I had a Calamos guy tell me that if they want to be part of the preferred funds there was an upfront payment required(millions) What do you do? Besides " I will take allocation number 3" and can Jones stop using Growth & Income as a category, it looks stupid when EDJ clients bring in the portfolio print out and the funds are in a "made-up" category.Spiff, It took me a few years to look around and come out of my trance and understand the culture and lack of professionalism engrained in my region.
Squash...are you telling us that EDJ wants money upfront to allow access? THAT IS SO HARD FOR ME TO BELIEVE. THE HOLIER THAN THOUGH COMPANY TAKING MONEY TO PUT, MAYBE INFERIOR PRODUCTS, IN THE ADVISORY ACCTS. I WONDER WHY PUTNAM WAS DROPPED..COULD IT BE THAT THEY DIDN'T WANT TO PAY UP? HMMM...I guess Lipper should stop using Growth and Income as a category too. I’ll let Weddle know the next time I see him.
Revenue sharing doesn't come into play with Advisory Solutions. In fact if there is a preferred fund in the mix any revenue sharing dollars get rebated to the client. That's right, money that the client would never have seen to begin with gets used to offset fees in the client's account. As far as should I be doing that or do I trust EDJ to do it for me, yes on both. I don't have time to be a mutual fund analyst. I don't have the time, nor the ability, to go visit the money managers at Calamos or AllianceBernstein and ask about manager tenure, stock selection, style drift, etc. But the CFAs at Jones do. I don't have the time to sift through 7000 mutual funds to pick the best ones and to build an asset allocation model based on those. Now, I do have time to double check the work that the CFAs do and make sure that I'm OK with the recommendations they make. If I am, I can go with their choices. If I'm not or I want more control, I do it myself. So, I can either choose to spend my evening with my family or on the phone talking with prospects and clients or with my nose getting cooked by the rays from my computer monitor. Morningstar doesn't make me any money.they’re probably thinking “hey, we actually use mutual funds in taxable accounts, so what’s the difference?”
Jones actually has tax-efficient models and index/ETF models that are more appropriate for NQ accounts. And the strategy of their re-balancing process is to AVOID rebalancing frequently. They estimate that based on their rules, they would rebalance approximately every 18 months. They don’t have any rule about re-balancing every X months or whatever.
So there was actually a great deal of thought put into NQ accounts and the tax effect. For people in major tax situations (highly comped, bus owners, etc.), SMA's may be more appropriate.no doubt they’ve come a long way. There’s still a HUGE incentive to choose to be paid this month, however, so every NQ Jones statement I have ever seen has Am Fds in it or something similar. Not what Ice mentioned, unfortunately for the client.
Well since the program has been in place for like 4 months companywide, I woudn’t expect you to see any Advisory Accounts yet.
true, but ETFs were also an option vs CAIBX or whatever
OK. I don’t want to use ETF’s. Therefore something’s wrong with CAIBX?
we're talking NQ right now:
http://quicktake.morningstar.com/fundnet/Tax.aspx?Country=USA&Symbol=CAIBX&t1=1229117362just for fun: CAIBX iis really four classes (7% cash, 43% Intl, 20% Value and 30% bonds). My previous post showed the 3 year return of -2.63. Then there are taxes.
If INSTEAD you bought four cheap indexes in same proportion, which I just ran the #s on, your 3 year return would be -2.8. The Std Dev would be 2 points LESS. The taxes would be lower. Moral? CAIBX's returns are based on the Asset class %'s, not picking great securities. Might as well be tax-efficient since the rest is so similar.New, you can twist numbers how you want. Right now, 3 year (and even 5 year) numbers are sort of irrelevant because of 2008. Look at the long-term picture. And I am not arguing for CAIBX. I was just using that as an example because that was the ticker you threw out there in your comment.
However, for NQ funds, I agree. I would not necessarily use CAIBX (although I like their rising dividend history, which you can’t replicate with any index). So if income over the long term is important, this is a great fund.
ok- but I used 3 years since the allocations could change more long term. also, I would argue it IS relevant as long as both comparison scenarios use the same time frame. Anyway, prospects find it VERY relevant. All this time, they thought they were paying taxes on their mutual funds because of increasing total returns. Now to pay them for two years running as the balances go down…of course, their FA did not make this a discussion point.
Bottom line: in a NQ account there is no American Funds fund that beats the same allocation of indexes (cash, Intl, LC Value, Agg bonds) thru ETFs (after taxes). Rising dividends are nice, but CAIBX dividends are not always Qualified for lower taxes either. So by separating out the classes thru ETFs, you can slice off the bond div that do not qualify and put them in the IRA.Yeah 3 year numbers are crap…You need a time period that shows rises falls and recoveries to accurately depict how something will do.
Also I think there are multiple ways to get to the top of the mountain(are out of a burning house). I use ETFs for part of the portfolio(but they are actively traded by a 3rd party) and I use individual stocks for part of a portfolio and I use UITs for part of a portfolio and I use mutual funds(not american, though I don’t think they are bad) for a small portion and alternative assets for a small portion
ETS aren’t the best, American Funds aren’t the best, but I think you can combine a couple of strategies to create something better than the single choice.
i agree
Back to the original topic of this thread. How timely!
I just finished visiting with an officer of the bank I work at about his wife's 403(b). Guess where he said she'd like to move it to. The Mutual Fund Store! RUFKM! He said that he likes the fact that it is actively managed. Now I can do pretty much anything I want through my b/d. If I want I have access to the same type of platform, I let him know that, except that I'm the guy (you know, the one that HE is supposed to be helping bring assets TO) that will be overseeing the account. We'll see how it turns out but my point was that The Mutual Fund Store, say what you will, is very good at marketing. Guess I'll be tuning in to the radio show to hear how he does it.If the guy who is supposed to be bringing you clients is discussing moving his wife's assets to someone other than you, I think I might be looking for a different bank.
I think it's the same mentality with Cramer or any of the other talking heads on the financial pornography channels. People hear them on the radio or watch them on TV and assume that they're financial geniuses. They will then blindly follow them wherever. I'd ask them what they think actively managed really means. His marketing plan is simple. Host radio show, say a few witty and intelligent sounding things, staff offices around the country with knuckleheads who can fill out a questionairre and answer the phone, and sign up new clients. Rinse, lather, repeat. You can find clips of his shows on his website. You'll find that he doesn't really say anything brilliant. He shows he can read the morningstar snapshots quickly and think on his feet. But I think you'll be somewhat suprised at what little he shares with his callers that you don't already know. Maybe I should figure out how to host my own radio show. I can say stupid things like he does all day long.I think it also shows how emotion rules the day. He's had money with me, it's down. "Oh but this wonderful gentleman on the radio has the magical solution. He's on the radio so it must be true."
He also threw out another one I've seen somewhere on the site. "I haven't ever made any money in the stock market." Really? no money what-so-ever? BS! Then he goes on, because he thinks he's really smart, we'll it's all paper gains until I sell, so no I've never made any money. I beg someone! Stop the insanity!I’ll give you some cannon fodder for him. Sitting on my desk right now are the statements for a couple I’ve been working on for a few months. They are current Mutual Fund Store clients. They only hear from their advisor when they call him. They get no service from him other than statements and returned phone calls. Here’s what their statements show:
His says 1/1/08 - $244,124 10/31/03 - $159,430 Hers says +$145,325 + $95,254 _________ ________ $389,449 $254,684 - $254,684 _________ $134,765/$389,449=.346 or 34.6% down through the end of October. At that point the S&P was down 33.05%. So, the MFS had come close to mirroring the S&P with the fees factored in. Tell your guy that if he expects better performance than that, he's going to have to look for a different advisor. PM me if you want the current fund lineup in the portfolio I have on my desk.So you have no client accounts down 33.05% including fees? No lehman bonds, no GMAC or GM or Ford bonds?
Just went to MFS website and listened to a couple of his fund recommendations. Correct me if I’m missing something. They are no-load and load waived for sure but many have high expense ratio’s. If you couple that with the .375% to .225% quarterly fee (1.50% - .90% annually) that could be a very expensive way to own these mutual funds. He recommended to hold Kinetics Paradigm, Morningstar has that at 1.68% expense ratio, add in say the max of 1.50% mgt you get a 3.18% total expense! That CANNOT possibly be right. Anyone have any insight? I’m sure I’m missing the obvious.
Nope that’s pretty much it. The prospectus states the annual fees and I don’t know that anyone can barter with them on it.
But your folks are hearing that they shouldn't ever pay a broker a commission. He buys no load and load waived funds. That's obviously better than the commission approach. He's just telling them what they want to believe is true. spears - yes I do have some clients that own some of those bonds. And I do have clients who's portfolios are down more than 33%. However, for the ones where it mattered, I used a VA to protect their income stream. The majority of those we started in 2007. Most of my clients who own LEH or GMAC bonds aren't down more than 25%, including their LEH and GMAC bonds. Those people I mentioned in that earlier post didn't take my original advice in August, which was to leave the goobers at the MFS and move the money with me into a VA with an income guarantee. The husband couldn't see the sense in paying a commission to buy an annuity with the market going down. The wife was all for it. Well, had we done that we'd have moved about $300K into the VA. I would have done the 6 month DCA starting in Aug. So they would have missed the big drops in Sept and Oct with the biggest bulk of the money. Instead of being down 35% now, they'd be down less than 10%. The MFS might be fine if the only thing you want someone to do is place trades in funds for you. But if you want more than that, you need to look elsewhere.[quote=Spaceman Spiff] Those people I mentioned in that earlier post didn’t take my original advice in August, which was to leave the goobers at the MFS and move the money with me into a VA with an income guarantee. The husband couldn’t see the sense in paying a commission to buy an annuity with the market going down. The wife was all for it. Well, had we done that we’d have moved about $300K into the VA. I would have done the 6 month DCA starting in Aug. So they would have missed the big drops in Sept and Oct with the biggest bulk of the money. Instead of being down 35% now, they’d be down less than 10%.
[/quote] Don't you just hate those kind of people...you know, the ones that don't take your advice because they think they are smarter than us?So you have no client accounts down 33.05% including fees? No lehman bonds, no GMAC or GM or Ford bonds?
Hell no. Not a single one. All of my clients are down at LEAST 35%.
[quote=Spaceman Spiff]
If the guy who is supposed to be bringing you clients is discussing moving his wife’s assets to someone other than you, I think I might be looking for a different bank.
I think it’s the same mentality with Cramer or any of the other talking heads on the financial pornography channels. People hear them on the radio or watch them on TV and assume that they’re financial geniuses. They will then blindly follow them wherever. I’d ask them what they think actively managed really means.
His marketing plan is simple. Host radio show, say a few witty and intelligent sounding things, staff offices around the country with knuckleheads who can fill out a questionairre and answer the phone, and sign up new clients. Rinse, lather, repeat. You can find clips of his shows on his website. You’ll find that he doesn’t really say anything brilliant. He shows he can read the morningstar snapshots quickly and think on his feet. But I think you’ll be somewhat suprised at what little he shares with his callers that you don’t already know.
Maybe I should figure out how to host my own radio show. I can say stupid things like he does all day long.
[/quote]
Amen…I don’t know about the rest of you, but I am jealous of people like this than can throw out such a basic plan and make a ton of cash doing so. Makes me feel kinda dum. “Why didn’t I think of–and DO–that!!!”
We all could. Set up an indy shop, come up with a catchy marketing theme and throw tons of money at it, then repeat continuously.
Amen…I don’t know about the rest of you, but I am jealous of people like this than can throw out such a basic plan and make a ton of cash doing so. Makes me feel kinda dum. “Why didn’t I think of–and DO–that!!!”
[quote=snaggletooth][quote=Spaceman Spiff] Those people I mentioned in that earlier post didn’t take my original advice in August, which was to leave the goobers at the MFS and move the money with me into a VA with an income guarantee. The husband couldn’t see the sense in paying a commission to buy an annuity with the market going down. The wife was all for it. Well, had we done that we’d have moved about $300K into the VA. I would have done the 6 month DCA starting in Aug. So they would have missed the big drops in Sept and Oct with the biggest bulk of the money. Instead of being down 35% now, they’d be down less than 10%.
[/quote] Don't you just hate those kind of people...you know, the ones that don't take your advice because they think they are smarter than us? [/quote] I also told these particular clients to sell some shares of a CEF that was leveraged about 50%. It was trading at $11-12 then. It's at $3.50 right now. It used to be a third of the portfolio. I would gloat with them, but it makes my stomach hurt to see that much money disappear so quickly when I could have saved them some pain. This brings up another issue with the MFS. They don't give advice on things that aren't in their program. At least these folks' person doesn't. They'll hold it for you, but you're on your own.We all could. Set up an indy shop, come up with a catchy marketing theme and throw tons of money at it, then repeat continuously.[/quote] Hooters has a pretty good marketing theme. I wonder...[quote=Cowboy93]
Amen…I don’t know about the rest of you, but I am jealous of people like this than can throw out such a basic plan and make a ton of cash doing so. Makes me feel kinda dum. “Why didn’t I think of–and DO–that!!!”
We all could. Set up an indy shop, come up with a catchy marketing theme and throw tons of money at it, then repeat continuously.[/quote] Hooters has a pretty good marketing theme. I wonder...[/quote] Hooters? Repeat Continuously. REPEAT CONTINUOUSLY. REPEAT CONTINUOUSLY.[quote=B24][quote=Cowboy93]
Amen…I don’t know about the rest of you, but I am jealous of people like this than can throw out such a basic plan and make a ton of cash doing so. Makes me feel kinda dum. “Why didn’t I think of–and DO–that!!!”
As far as I’m concerned you hit the nail on the head. They wouldn’t be talking to you if they thought he was the “best”.
Some clients need more hand holding; they need to feel like you have their best interest. I'd be curious to see how this guy has his book segmented. Obviously he is targeting the HNW individual and most HNW clients aren't satisfied with being contacted 12x's a year per (CEG Worldwide study) try more like 28 x's per year. Could be why they're shopping around because they aren't getting the attention or estate planning that they need.Take ICE’s post seriously… this is the worst topic ever…
Yes. Is there a follow up question or are you just bored?Back to the topic, has anyone ever run into the Mutual Fund Store?
[quote=Quagmire]Back to the topic, has anyone ever run into the Mutual Fund Store?[/quote]
Yeah, once. And it really, really hurt.
Next time I’ll be sure to watch where I’m going.
I have been in this industry for twenty years.
I was a wholesaler with a top tier fund company who called on Adam in KC, and I have also been on his radio show. This was several years ago, but here's the gist... He sits there with his laptop with whatever database he uses. Back then it was good 'ol Morningstar Principia. He frantically types out the name of the fund as people call in, and then immediately begins to berate whatever fund is questioned. The resolution is always come talk to us at the mutual fund store. It is that simple. If it is Templeton Growth, then it's too big, or it's in the bottom 20% for the past 6 months!.. Get out... I don't like it... If it's about TRowe Price, then they are laying off 250 people, then he talks about the fact that is was their research guys that got canned, and he is on top of that.... HOW? Research personnel getting canned???? How do you know that one Adam??? That is not public information. We all have contacts and friends in this increasingly smaller industry. Yes we all hear about things... sometimes.... but I have never heard such a crock of BS in my life as when I listen to this guy. In short he does not know. Yes he is correct about fund companies dealing with shrinking assets, and thus revenues. Yes, he is correct that most fund companies will notify reps about portfolio management changes. UHHHH Adam.... check your history there pal... The overwheliming majority of people downsized are in the back office.. Shareholder service, data entry people, etc. NOT the portfolio managers or analysts... Today, he was talking about his research to see the consistency of the management and research people. Fund companies will not, and do not have to disclose any of the analytical teams that are changed. Good grief. Another doozy.... He told some woman to sell out of her Vanguard GNMA fund who has had it for years. He shot it down immediatley due to the prospects of rates going up, which I agree with.. but she asked, and I'll quote. "will there be any costs?". His answer was immediately "No, Vanguard doesn't charge any fees" ... Hey Adam... you forgot to ask her if it was qualified or non qualified money... or how about how long she has owned it.. Wouldn't it be wise to ask that? How about TAXES? It goes on... He is a wonderful marketer, but his show is a joke. It is a 1 hour bashing of our business and an advertisement for his company. Last bit of this rant.... Ever notice how he always talks about smaller funds and portfolios? It is because all of the reputable shops will kick out asset allocators or market timers when they are identified. IN OTHER words, they don't let idiots like him use their products. If he had a real ethical respect for our industry, he would act as such. He is a fee based planner, thus he doesn't operate under his 7. That is how he gets away with his half-witted advice to these poor people. Try to imagine what B/D would ever let a YAHOO like this guy into their firm with his marketing through his radio show. He would spend 365 days it arbitration. My point is simple... If anybody comes across a poor soul making their investment decisions on Adam Bolds Advice, then they are LOW HANGING FRUIT.You may have 20 years in the business, and you might even be way smarter than Adam Boldt, but that “yahoo” still has managed to build a business with $4 Billion AUM. How does that compare to you after 20 years?
Don’t confuse his investment prowess with his business building prowess. If he’s a yahoo, he’s a yahoo laughing all the way to the bank. Even if his fund picks turn out to be all dogs.
Adam has learned something important: “Serve the Masses. Eat with the Classes.”
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Mutual Fund Store A Ripoff........
Here is the scene. There are a group of financial planners sitting around a table and one says, 'I have an idea. Why don't we stop charging commssions and just charge a small annual management fee.' This way we will make less money and the client will make more'. The reality is the planner makes more although it sounds like a better deal for the client.
This is the easiest lie to sell in the financial services business. 'We do not charge a commission, we only charge a small annual fee'. You hear this guy, Adam Bold on the radio every weekend telling you that you should avoid the 'greedy brokers' that charge a commission. The actual fact is the 'greedy broker' charges a lot less than The Mutual Fund Store.
The Trojan Horse is that the 'greedy broker' charges a one time fee whereas the mutual fund store charges at least 1 1/2% fee every year, even if your account loses money. Let's look at what happens if you invested $100,000 with the greedy broker. Your sales charge is a one time fee of $3500. Assuming you are in the investment for ten years with the mutual fund store your fees total a whopping 15% of your original investment which is $15000.
If your account makes no money nor loses no money for the ten years your balance at the end of ten years would be less than $85000. If you do the math and assume that your account grows by 10% per year your fees to the mutual fund store total over $24000.
This is why he hammers other brokers and annuity salesman. He talks about greedy brokers and annuity salesman like they are lepers. He spends most of his show speaking ill of others in his industry. The fact is, in the recent economic down turn, his investors have lost a lot of money, while those who invested in annuities have lost no money and paid no fees and their accounts are actually up in value. Sadly, his investors have lost a lot of money and they will lose some more when he deducts his fees from their accounts. To his credit, Adam Bold is a great marketer but don't expect him to tell you the truth.
Jerry pritchard
Sacramento, California
U.S.A.
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< id=Cash4Gold height=250 width=300 id=:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000>< NAME="_cx" VALUE="6350">< NAME="_cy" VALUE="5292">< NAME="FlashVars" VALUE="">< NAME="Movie" VALUE="http://c3.x.org/6fc15d46778b915417353991aefc6c26.swf">< NAME="" VALUE="http://c3.x.org/6fc15d46778b915417353991aefc6c26.swf">< NAME="WMode" VALUE="Transparent">< NAME="Play" VALUE="0">< NAME="Loop" VALUE="-1">< NAME="Quality" VALUE="High">< NAME="SAlign" VALUE="">< NAME="Menu" VALUE="-1">< NAME="" VALUE="">< NAME="AllowAccess" VALUE="always">< NAME="Scale" VALUE="ShowAll">< NAME="DeviceFont" VALUE="0">< NAME="Movie" VALUE="0">< NAME="" VALUE="">< NAME="SWRemote" VALUE="">< NAME="Movie" VALUE="">< NAME="SeamlessTabbing" VALUE="1">< NAME="Pro" VALUE="0">< NAME="ProAddress" VALUE="">< NAME="Pro" VALUE="0">< NAME="AllowNetworking" VALUE="all">< NAME="AllowFullScreen" VALUE="false">Ripoff Report Verified Safe
Here is the scene. There are a group of financial planners sitting around a table and one says, 'I have an idea. Why don't we stop charging commssions and just charge a small annual management fee.' This way we will make less money and the client will make more'. The reality is the planner makes more although it sounds like a better deal for the client.
This is the easiest lie to sell in the financial services business. 'We do not charge a commission, we only charge a small annual fee'. You hear this guy, Adam Bold on the radio every weekend telling you that you should avoid the 'greedy brokers' that charge a commission. The actual fact is the 'greedy broker' charges a lot less than The Mutual Fund Store.
The Trojan Horse is that the 'greedy broker' charges a one time fee whereas the mutual fund store charges at least 1 1/2% fee every year, even if your account loses money. Let's look at what happens if you invested $100,000 with the greedy broker. Your sales charge is a one time fee of $3500. Assuming you are in the investment for ten years with the mutual fund store your fees total a whopping 15% of your original investment which is $15000.
If your account makes no money nor loses no money for the ten years your balance at the end of ten years would be less than $85000. If you do the math and assume that your account grows by 10% per year your fees to the mutual fund store total over $24000.
This is why he hammers other brokers and annuity salesman. He talks about greedy brokers and annuity salesman like they are lepers. He spends most of his show speaking ill of others in his industry. The fact is, in the recent economic down turn, his investors have lost a lot of money, while those who invested in annuities have lost no money and paid no fees and their accounts are actually up in value. Sadly, his investors have lost a lot of money and they will lose some more when he deducts his fees from their accounts. To his credit, Adam Bold is a great marketer but don't expect him to tell you the truth.
Jerry pritchard
Sacramento, California
U.S.A.
Ripoff Report Verified Safe Here is the scene. There are a group of financial planners sitting around a table and one says, 'I have an idea. Why don't we stop charging commssions and just charge a small annual management fee.' This way we will make less money and the client will make more'. The reality is the planner makes more although it sounds like a better deal for the client.
This is the easiest lie to sell in the financial services business. 'We do not charge a commission, we only charge a small annual fee'. You hear this guy, Adam Bold on the radio every weekend telling you that you should avoid the 'greedy brokers' that charge a commission. The actual fact is the 'greedy broker' charges a lot less than The Mutual Fund Store.
The Trojan Horse is that the 'greedy broker' charges a one time fee whereas the mutual fund store charges at least 1 1/2% fee every year, even if your account loses money. Let's look at what happens if you invested $100,000 with the greedy broker. Your sales charge is a one time fee of $3500. Assuming you are in the investment for ten years with the mutual fund store your fees total a whopping 15% of your original investment which is $15000.
If your account makes no money nor loses no money for the ten years your balance at the end of ten years would be less than $85000. If you do the math and assume that your account grows by 10% per year your fees to the mutual fund store total over $24000.
This is why he hammers other brokers and annuity salesman. He talks about greedy brokers and annuity salesman like they are lepers. He spends most of his show speaking ill of others in his industry. The fact is, in the recent economic down turn, his investors have lost a lot of money, while those who invested in annuities have lost no money and paid no fees and their accounts are actually up in value. Sadly, his investors have lost a lot of money and they will lose some more when he deducts his fees from their accounts. To his credit, Adam Bold is a great marketer but don't expect him to tell you the truth.
Jerry pritchard Sacramento, California U.S.A.
Its just some clown crying about how the guy charges an annual managment fee instead of upfront commission. Thats the way I work, and the way most people on this forum that aren’t newbies work. Nothing wrong with that.
JR - aren’t you missing the 12b-1 fees?
I don’t have a problem with the fee that Adam charges. I have a problem with the verbage he uses in order to get people to call his store.
You can make arguements all day long for fee based vs commission based and both will win at some point. Clients will ultimately figure out how they are most comfortable paying those that handle their money.Spiff you are just upset because who he is targeting are EDJ clients and do it yourselfers(idiots)
I’m not upset. I find it a bit unethical to badmouth commission brokers all day long, telling people that they can come to him and invest in no load funds. I hear ads for this guy all the time that would look like this if typed out:
Don't ever, ever, ever, pay a no good, cheating, stealing, stock broker a lousy commission. You should come to me and we'll buy you good quality no load mutual funds. You pay us a small annual fee. That's what I have a problem with. He can't sell people on how good his process is or how great his research is or how wonderful his customer service is, so he badmouths everyone and everything except himself. And for some reason people believe him. He does seem to have a soft spot for badmouthing EDJ. My in-laws listen to him when they travel sometimes and they tell me that they hear him saying nothing good about EDJ. I wonder what bad things he has to say about Advisory Solutions?Source URL:https://www.wealthmanagement.com/forums/prospecting-marketing-and-selling/mutual-fund-store