The 500 day war (for rookies)

Jun 10, 2007 3:28 pm

This is some advice that I would give to someone starting out for their first 500 days as a producing advisor.  A new broker with no substantial contacts/connections; someone who is willing to put in the sweat equity to survive and eventual prosper.  After all, survival is the key as any successful veteran broker will tell you.  Some of these may appear somewhat controversal; it is simply my experience/view and what I would do.  In no particular order:

- Speak to 25,000 people via telephone; business owners and corporate directories only.  It will amount to 2500 leads and 250 new accounts (households). Average account should be 100k; that's 25 million @ 1% paying you 250k gross on an annual basis.

- Make an effort to open all accounts over the phone; discourage appointments (we'll revisit this theory later on) unless it is high 6 figures or a million dollar prospect.  Takes too much time.  With the travel, meeting time, etc; we are solely focusing on the numbers here. Eventually you'll meet with them AFTER they become clients.

- Purchase a laptop for your contact management; have this in front of you at all times and place the firm workstation BEHIND you.  Too distracting and you will rarely need it anyway in the first two years.

- Have all of the compliance approved marketing material as well as new account/ACAT documents available via email to send to prospects.  Make every effort to utilize this at all times to speed up the process.

- On a monthly basis, send a blast email as well as a paper-based copy of some idea/market related info to all of your prospects.  This is to be done on Saturday unless you can afford to hire someone to do it for you.

- If there is no "sale" on the first follow up call, make every effort to (politely) try and disqualify them.  This is done to prevent clogging up the pipeline with nice people who are (in reality) not interest or not qualified.  Or both. 

- Don't consider spending any of your time on seminars, networking, wholesalers.  Too much time/effort with unpredictable results.  These activities can be initiated after you've survived and have built a base to build on.

- Make 3 cold calls for every follow up call during the day.  It insures you are always talking to new people and not getting comfortable/lazy speaking only with existing prospects who will likely treat you in a kinder manner.

- Don't solicit or accept friend or family accounts. In addition, politely let them know that you are not to be called at work before 6 pm unless there is an emergency.  No time for idle chit/chat and friendly calls often turn into long conversations.  Keep up contact evenings/weekends.

- Plan the next day (in particular you call list) before you leave.  30 minutes after arriving to work you should be on the phone.

- Do not take active traders for clients, especially fee-based traders.  Takes too much time and interferes with prospecting.

- Ask every prospect if it would be ok to call them on Saturdays; great day to call/reach people in a relaxed state; this is the only time I would call home #'s and only after they've given you permission.

- Use regular mail and email to keep your name in front of prospects on a regular basis.  However, ALL outgoing phone calls should be dedicated to asking for orders.

- During the week, gather all research/articles/etc and put it in a pile; this is to be read on Sunday when you have time, and not interfering with prospecting efforts.

- Keep diligent notes on conversations with prospects; quickly peruse them before following up and mention previous things they've said.  Sets you apart and will impress any prospect.

- Promote referrals immediately after the first sale is made.  Something along the lines of sending them an additional brochure for someone they may know.  Do not ask for specific names, simply let them know you would appreciate any introductions.

- Be the first to arrive and generally the last to leave.  Do not socialize with fellow brokers as they want you to fail.  Bust your tail and impress them via your work ethic and results.  You are the only one who decides your paycheck.

- Find a city that you would like to visit often, preferably on the opposite coast (different time zone).  Spend 1-2 hours calling this area every day.  If you are on the East Coast and calling SF, this can be done in the evening (your time) while it's still afternoon out there.  Conversely, West Coast people can be calling east at 6 am. 

- Keep a daily scorecard and be diligent tracking activity/results.  Set ambitious (yet reasonable) goals and exceed them.  Time management is crucial; waste one hour a day and you have just wasted 25 working days a year. Yeah, it's that much.

- Assume everyone has caller ID and always leave messages for existing prospects; no messages on cold calls. Leave one message a week for a prospect.  And when you get a new prospect, ask them what time and what # they prefer to be contacted.

- Work for today but keep tomorrow in mind.  Try and build a business that is primarily fee-based/recurring revenue.  It's a great feeling to come into year 3 with 250k already "done" and to see dividends for years to come as a result of the 500 day war.

So there's a start and I'll try and add more as I think of them.  In addition, I'll post some ideas on what a broker in their 3rd year should start considering doing to grow the business.

Jun 11, 2007 1:54 pm

[quote=The Judge]

This is some advice that I would give to someone starting out for their first 500 days as a producing advisor.  A new broker with no substantial contacts/connections; someone who is willing to put in the sweat equity to survive and eventual prosper.  After all, survival is the key as any successful veteran broker will tell you.  Some of these may appear somewhat controversal; it is simply my experience/view and what I would do.  In no particular order:

- Speak to 25,000 people via telephone; business owners and corporate directories only.  It will amount to 2500 leads and 250 new accounts (households). Average account should be 100k; that's 25 million @ 1% paying you 250k gross on an annual basis.

- Make an effort to open all accounts over the phone; discourage appointments (we'll revisit this theory later on) unless it is high 6 figures or a million dollar prospect.  Takes too much time.  With the travel, meeting time, etc; we are solely focusing on the numbers here. Eventually you'll meet with them AFTER they become clients.

- Purchase a laptop for your contact management; have this in front of you at all times and place the firm workstation BEHIND you.  Too distracting and you will rarely need it anyway in the first two years.

- Have all of the compliance approved marketing material as well as new account/ACAT documents available via email to send to prospects.  Make every effort to utilize this at all times to speed up the process.

- On a monthly basis, send a blast email as well as a paper-based copy of some idea/market related info to all of your prospects.  This is to be done on Saturday unless you can afford to hire someone to do it for you.

- If there is no "sale" on the first follow up call, make every effort to (politely) try and disqualify them.  This is done to prevent clogging up the pipeline with nice people who are (in reality) not interest or not qualified.  Or both. 

- Don't consider spending any of your time on seminars, networking, wholesalers.  Too much time/effort with unpredictable results.  These activities can be initiated after you've survived and have built a base to build on.

- Make 3 cold calls for every follow up call during the day.  It insures you are always talking to new people and not getting comfortable/lazy speaking only with existing prospects who will likely treat you in a kinder manner.

- Don't solicit or accept friend or family accounts. In addition, politely let them know that you are not to be called at work before 6 pm unless there is an emergency.  No time for idle chit/chat and friendly calls often turn into long conversations.  Keep up contact evenings/weekends.

- Plan the next day (in particular you call list) before you leave.  30 minutes after arriving to work you should be on the phone.

- Do not take active traders for clients, especially fee-based traders.  Takes too much time and interferes with prospecting.

- Ask every prospect if it would be ok to call them on Saturdays; great day to call/reach people in a relaxed state; this is the only time I would call home #'s and only after they've given you permission.

- Use regular mail and email to keep your name in front of prospects on a regular basis.  However, ALL outgoing phone calls should be dedicated to asking for orders.

- During the week, gather all research/articles/etc and put it in a pile; this is to be read on Sunday when you have time, and not interfering with prospecting efforts.

- Keep diligent notes on conversations with prospects; quickly peruse them before following up and mention previous things they've said.  Sets you apart and will impress any prospect.

- Promote referrals immediately after the first sale is made.  Something along the lines of sending them an additional brochure for someone they may know.  Do not ask for specific names, simply let them know you would appreciate any introductions.

- Be the first to arrive and generally the last to leave.  Do not socialize with fellow brokers as they want you to fail.  Bust your tail and impress them via your work ethic and results.  You are the only one who decides your paycheck.

- Find a city that you would like to visit often, preferably on the opposite coast (different time zone).  Spend 1-2 hours calling this area every day.  If you are on the East Coast and calling SF, this can be done in the evening (your time) while it's still afternoon out there.  Conversely, West Coast people can be calling east at 6 am. 

- Keep a daily scorecard and be diligent tracking activity/results.  Set ambitious (yet reasonable) goals and exceed them.  Time management is crucial; waste one hour a day and you have just wasted 25 working days a year. Yeah, it's that much.

- Assume everyone has caller ID and always leave messages for existing prospects; no messages on cold calls. Leave one message a week for a prospect.  And when you get a new prospect, ask them what time and what # they prefer to be contacted.

- Work for today but keep tomorrow in mind.  Try and build a business that is primarily fee-based/recurring revenue.  It's a great feeling to come into year 3 with 250k already "done" and to see dividends for years to come as a result of the 500 day war.

So there's a start and I'll try and add more as I think of them.  In addition, I'll post some ideas on what a broker in their 3rd year should start considering doing to grow the business.

[/quote]

This post should be required reading for every rookie as well as vets looking to get off the plateau.

Jun 11, 2007 2:12 pm

That's a great post from The Judge.  I agree with most of it, but the point that I would make is that it is really most appropiate for someone whose business model is that of  a wirehouse asset gatherer.

For other business models, this is not the best way to approach things.  For instance, it's not the way to work if you are going to make your money on financial planning fees or if insurance is a big part of your practice.  For those of you who are building business where face to face contacts are important, I would give two rules to follow:

1)From 8:00-4:00 do absolutely nothing but see people and fight to see them.  

2)Get referrals at every appointment.  This means get them before the person is a client.

Jun 11, 2007 5:10 pm

Ignore the guy beside you who brags about his moster piece of institutional business ‘in the pipeline.’

Jun 11, 2007 6:35 pm

[quote=The Judge]- Find a city that you would like to visit often, preferably on the opposite coast (different time zone).  Spend 1-2 hours calling this area every day.  If you are on the East Coast and calling SF, this can be done in the evening (your time) while it's still afternoon out there.  Conversely, West Coast people can be calling east at 6 am.[/quote]

Thanks as always judge.  Just not sure I understand this one above... should this one be held back until local market numbers are exhausted?

Jun 11, 2007 7:20 pm

His point is that you can find numbers to prospect at almost ANY hour of the day...

I know a guy at MS who did this in his early years. Had some family in Boston and he used to cold call from So Cal.... He would call starting around 6am West Coast time for a couple hours. He was amazing on the phone and opened up dozens of good accounts over the years. Used to travel back 1-2X per year and meet with these people face to face... Now, he probably has 30-40% of his book back in MA...

Jun 11, 2007 8:40 pm

Never opened an account on the phone.  If I had a choice (which I probably do) I would rather open 100% over the phone.  Can anyone with experience in this area explain how it is done?  Does it take multiple follow-up calls, etc?  Are visuals used at all (my current pitch is based on MPT which I use some charts to illustrate efficient frontier, etc).

Jun 11, 2007 9:30 pm

I have two clients back east that I have never met before- both referrals from my best client there.

Basically, I made the initial call, had a good convo. Sent firm material, followed up to simply set the 2nd conf call for a week out. Had the second call where I detailed my services and value prop. Client agreed to send statements and other info back with a financial profile I mailed to them.

Got the info back, ran an analysis and called to set third conversation. Emailed analysis an hour before. Explained everything in detail, and closed them over the phone. They had new account forms and ACAT's in their hands the next day. I have since been back to visit them face to face twice now, and the relationship is now like any other that I may have here locally.

Hope that helps...

Jun 11, 2007 10:47 pm

Good stuff, Judge.

Jun 11, 2007 11:39 pm

[quote=The Judge]

- Make an effort to open all accounts over the phone; discourage appointments (we'll revisit this theory later on) unless it is high 6 figures or a million dollar prospect.  Takes too much time.  With the travel, meeting time, etc; we are solely focusing on the numbers here. Eventually you'll meet with them AFTER they become clients.

[/quote]

I thought your post was absolutely right on Judge, except for this one exert which I don't see how it can happen.  How do you get all the paper work signed?  Branch Mgmt. sign off?  Check for proper identification?  Insure the person you are talking too really is who they say they are? over the phone????  I am sure there are some you can "close" over the phone, but compliance would make it very difficult to close everyone over the phone. 

Jun 11, 2007 11:47 pm

The account and ACAT paperwork wouldnt be a problem. If they were opening a Trust acct, you simply have them stroll into the nearest branch (if they live a distance away) and have the local notary handle the trust cert. That, and any real firm has an exhaustive back office that conducts “Due Dili” on all new accounts being opened…

Jun 12, 2007 2:51 pm

Drewski- keep it simple.

Here is the way we do it:

Call/mail/call.

Call- with a product. As Judge and others have said, know it cold. A product with a closing date works best as it forces action. For example ING just came with a PFD stock. Munis work well, as do Strategy UITs. Strong closers can use open ended mutual funds that they are excited about.

Mail- info about the product

call- you have a choice here. You can close on the product orrrrrr back off a step and go for the interview.

There are no wrong answers beyond not making the calls. There are dozens of variations on this technique. All work.

Jun 12, 2007 3:19 pm

[quote=BullBroker][quote=The Judge]

- Make an effort to open all accounts over the phone; discourage appointments (we'll revisit this theory later on) unless it is high 6 figures or a million dollar prospect.  Takes too much time.  With the travel, meeting time, etc; we are solely focusing on the numbers here. Eventually you'll meet with them AFTER they become clients.

[/quote]

I thought your post was absolutely right on Judge, except for this one exert which I don't see how it can happen.  How do you get all the paper work signed?  Branch Mgmt. sign off?  Check for proper identification?  Insure the person you are talking too really is who they say they are? over the phone????  I am sure there are some you can "close" over the phone, but compliance would make it very difficult to close everyone over the phone. 

[/quote]

We open most of our accounts over the phone. I admit to keeping it simple, but opening accounts over the phone has never been a problem. The paperwork gets completed, the money comes in, and off we go to the next one. Compliance has no probelm with this. It's a matter of being set up to do business this way. As long as you know up front what the compliance process is for processing accounts opened by phone it's a simple matter of following that process. As a salesperson, I don't have to worry about the details. My service assistant has to know all the forms, processes etc to make it happen. And happen it does.

Jun 12, 2007 11:23 pm

In the Series 66 we learned that the NASD requires us to verify identification of clients.  For very least purposes of determining they are not terrorist.  I am new at this so maybe I havn't been taught how to check a photo ID over the phone, but please tell me how, that would really speed-up my business. 

Please note, I am not trying to discredit the Judges post at all ( on the contrary, he is THE most helpful and knowledgeable of ALL the posters on this site).  I am just trying to see how you guys "close" the paper work over the phone. 

Jun 13, 2007 11:01 pm

[quote=BullBroker]

In the Series 66 we learned that the NASD requires us to verify identification of clients.  For very least purposes of determining they are not terrorist.  I am new at this so maybe I havn't been taught how to check a photo ID over the phone, but please tell me how, that would really speed-up my business. 

Please note, I am not trying to discredit the Judges post at all ( on the contrary, he is THE most helpful and knowledgeable of ALL the posters on this site).  I am just trying to see how you guys "close" the paper work over the phone. 

[/quote]

 You are making this a lot harder than it has to be. I doubt your training qualifies you as a document expert. In fact, there is someone else at your firm who has that job. Let them do it and you stick to sales.

Bull, I not advising you to go against your firm's compliance rules or the NASD rules when I say this, but you are getting way too caught up in the red tape. Find out what your firm's rules are for opening accounts over the phone. If they tell you they don't have a process for getting that done it's time to move to a new firm because they are BSing you. Use your firm's process. better yet, let your service assistant get it done.

Also, find a way to take yourself out of the paperwork process and increase your selling time.

Jun 14, 2007 12:29 am

That’s gold Judge, I want more.

Jun 14, 2007 2:03 am

thanks for the vision and enthusiasm judge and Bondguy, much appreciated

Jun 14, 2007 2:44 pm

[quote=The Judge]

- Make an effort to open all accounts over the phone; discourage appointments (we'll revisit this theory later on) unless it is high 6 figures or a million dollar prospect.  Takes too much time.  With the travel, meeting time, etc; we are solely focusing on the numbers here. Eventually you'll meet with them AFTER they become clients.

What type of accounts are you looking for at this point?  If these accounts are coming from cold calls my experience is that you would have to be talking about a bond, stock, or other single investment.  

- Find a city that you would like to visit often, preferably on the opposite coast (different time zone).  Spend 1-2 hours calling this area every day.  If you are on the East Coast and calling SF, this can be done in the evening (your time) while it's still afternoon out there.  Conversely, West Coast people can be calling east at 6 am. 

What type of value do you propose that would convince these people (unless they are referals) to invest with you as opposed to someone local? 

[/quote]

Great post, but as you can see from my questions I am curious what you do to set yourself apart that would cause people to invest with you in a relatively non-personal manner.  The trend in the industry seems to be focused on touchy-feely dreams and aspirations garbage.   

Jun 14, 2007 5:31 pm

Thanks Judge for putting that together

Jun 14, 2007 7:10 pm

Great info Judge.  Read it several times.  Printing it now.  

Jun 15, 2007 3:24 pm

Thanks Judge -

I wish we had someone in my office that thought the way you do and could see the value of mentoring rookies.

Jun 20, 2007 10:39 pm

Wow, I’m impressed. I’m just getting started in the biz. This is better information in a more concise presentation than what I’ve recieved the last three months…

Jun 20, 2007 11:07 pm

Judge,

That was a lot of information but I did have one question. I guess anyone can answer it.

How do you like to qualify someone for "MUH-NEY"?

Also, do you find it challenging to overcome peoples inclination to not want to buy from a stranger over the phone? Or are these transactions expected after a second or third call where similar offers were made?

TIA

Jun 21, 2007 12:19 am

[quote=regulator]

Judge,

That was a lot of information but I did have one question. I guess anyone can answer it.

How do you like to qualify someone for "MUH-NEY"?

Also, do you find it challenging to overcome peoples inclination to not want to buy from a stranger over the phone? Or are these transactions expected after a second or third call where similar offers were made?

TIA

[/quote]

Ask them how much money they have. In fact, don't even ask us any more questions until you have actually MADE some cold calls.

Jun 29, 2007 3:54 pm
The Judge:

- Speak to 25,000 people via telephone; business owners and corporate directories only.  It will amount to 2500 leads and 250 new accounts (households). Average account should be 100k; that’s 25 million @ 1% paying you 250k gross on an annual basis.

It may be helpful for some to note that, to reach 25,000 business owners, one usually needs to dial at least 5x that many.  That means at least 125,000 dials over two years - which boils down to 1,200 a week and about 240 a day (on five-day schedule).

Jun 29, 2007 10:54 pm

[quote=opie]

It may be helpful for some to note that, to reach 25,000 business owners, one usually needs to dial at least 5x that many.  That means at least 125,000 dials over two years - which boils down to 1,200 a week and about 240 a day (on five-day schedule).[/quote]

Damn that's a lot of calls.

Aug 4, 2007 10:00 pm

Just wanted to bring this to the top again.  What a great inspirational post.  Thanks again Judge.

Aug 8, 2007 1:38 am

wordup judge

Aug 8, 2007 4:08 pm

Getting into the business young is tough. I feel like if a person used The Judge’s marketing plan, where no real face to face contact occurs, a young person could succeed much more easily. The real impediment to success for a young person is that you LOOK young. A HNW 55 yo isn’t going to give a young looking person 5MM. Trust is to gain if you look older, I believe. Even if you are saying the right things.

So, If a young person started a ravenous cold-calling campaign, similar to what The Judge discussed, they could have equal success as a 50yo with the same knowledge. That is, as long as they don’t sound like a 12 yo. What do all of the vets out there think?

Aug 8, 2007 7:26 pm

[quote=Closer]Getting into the business young is tough. I feel like if a person used The Judge's marketing plan, where no real face to face contact occurs, a young person could succeed much more easily. The real impediment to success for a young person is that you LOOK young. A HNW 55 yo isn't going to give a young looking person 5MM. Trust is to gain if you look older, I believe. Even if you are saying the right things.

So, If a young person started a ravenous cold-calling campaign, similar to what The Judge discussed, they could have equal success as a 50yo with the same knowledge. That is, as long as they don't sound like a 12 yo. What do all of the vets out there think?
[/quote]

Agree, the quickest way to get accounts is cold-calling,but I keep wodnering how judge says to open accounts without signatures from clients.  My compliance dept would shut me down if I did that........

Aug 8, 2007 7:38 pm

Can’t you send out account forms with highlighted or marked places where to sign? Like “express” account opening.

Aug 8, 2007 10:17 pm

yep.  I do, and I put those little SIGN HERE—> stickies on there too.

Aug 8, 2007 11:45 pm

I just feel like these would take a minimum of 4 weeks to get mailed back, is that not the case?

Aug 9, 2007 12:08 am

Can't you get them to fax it back?  Then put a temporary approval on the account until you get the originals.  I did that a few times for out of state clients.

[quote=drewski803]I just feel like these would take a minimum of 4 weeks to get mailed back, is that not the case?[/quote]

Aug 9, 2007 1:59 am

Really?  Wow, I would have never even thought that was a possibility… I’m too new to really understand the ops side.  I’ll have to investigate that.  I’ve gone between trying to get in front ASAP and over qualifying on the telephone.  I’ve found that I really do come accross alot better over the phone, but I only close the deal if I get in front of them.  Never solo closed a deal over 440m though…

Aug 9, 2007 4:18 pm

I just reread Judge's comments.  I think he was saying to open them up verbally, and get the signed documents to them ASAP, and call them to make sure they are returned ASAP.

I don't know how you can ACAT without an account open, and that takes signatures, probably a pipeline thing..........

Good info,I wish someone would have clued me in on things when I started.........

Oct 24, 2007 10:42 pm

Excellent - Excellent post!  This could really be used by the LOS 7-10 crowd that needs to take it to the next level with small modifications.

Oct 25, 2007 7:15 am

Hi Judge,

  Can you explain to me about why you shouldn't call for appointments? You've never updated your thoughts on this.  I absolutely agree with trying to open accounts over the phone is most desirable from an efficiency standpoint especially since it eliminates the agony of wasting time, gas, and the possible no shows on the commute to the appointment.    However, with my experience (limited to only 1yr.) I've noticed that meeting face to face is more effective to get the WHOLE nugget.  Or at least, the prospect is more receptive about divuldging all their financial info.  Whereas, most of the time when a prospect buys a product from me they often do not fully disclose details otheir other accounts.  They might tell you a little about it, but you learn a lot more in person and specific details instead of general outline.   When I used to call on product and successfully sold it to a person on the phone the person would not regard me as a financial advisor.  In the end of the day I would be the guy who sold him some bonds or a fund.  Meeting in person can eliminate the vacuum salesman impression assuming you act and look more professional.    Lastly, after selling an investment to the person on the phone, you would assume that this would give you passage to other oppurtunities like getting an appointment right?  Wrong!  Typically the best case scenario is that the person will continue or at least consider buying more product from you... at least from my experience.   This is still a profitable business model and works for a lot of advisors.  Most of these clients actually prefer to do this type of business over the phone and not meet at all either.  That is why when I have tried infiltrating a call with the main agenda for a face to face they usually decline the idea.  Ideally, I would love just to do business over the phone, but deep down I know that the relationship I want to have.  I want to start early on my career by doing managed money instead of chopping wood all day by pitching product the old school way.  I believe that managed money is best presented in person rather on the phone.  In the end I would rather start the year off with almost garaunteed production than looking at how many cars I need to sell to feed the kids w/ my next paycheck.
Oct 25, 2007 6:33 pm

[quote=young_gun]Hi Judge,

  Can you explain to me about why you shouldn't call for appointments? You've never updated your thoughts on this.  I absolutely agree with trying to open accounts over the phone is most desirable from an efficiency standpoint especially since it eliminates the agony of wasting time, gas, and the possible no shows on the commute to the appointment.    However, with my experience (limited to only 1yr.) I've noticed that meeting face to face is more effective to get the WHOLE nugget.  Or at least, the prospect is more receptive about divuldging all their financial info.  Whereas, most of the time when a prospect buys a product from me they often do not fully disclose details otheir other accounts.  They might tell you a little about it, but you learn a lot more in person and specific details instead of general outline.   When I used to call on product and successfully sold it to a person on the phone the person would not regard me as a financial advisor.  In the end of the day I would be the guy who sold him some bonds or a fund.  Meeting in person can eliminate the vacuum salesman impression assuming you act and look more professional.    Lastly, after selling an investment to the person on the phone, you would assume that this would give you passage to other oppurtunities like getting an appointment right?  Wrong!  Typically the best case scenario is that the person will continue or at least consider buying more product from you... at least from my experience.   This is still a profitable business model and works for a lot of advisors.  Most of these clients actually prefer to do this type of business over the phone and not meet at all either.  That is why when I have tried infiltrating a call with the main agenda for a face to face they usually decline the idea.  Ideally, I would love just to do business over the phone, but deep down I know that the relationship I want to have.  I want to start early on my career by doing managed money instead of chopping wood all day by pitching product the old school way.  I believe that managed money is best presented in person rather on the phone.  In the end I would rather start the year off with almost garaunteed production than looking at how many cars I need to sell to feed the kids w/ my next paycheck.[/quote]   I'll let judge come in with his own answers here on some of the points you raise. However, There are a few things here I'll ring in on.    Failure to move the account beyond a product sale -  This is your failure, not a failure of the phone sales process. One can only guess where you went wrong. That said, there are clients/customers who will never move beyond the product sale. Still, carefully building a bond of trust and competency will usually give you a seat at the table. That can be done over the phone. That you didn't do as well over the phone is a good thing for you.  It tells you to try another path. Another path in which you may be ultimately very successful.   Face to face vs over the phone - This is a personal preference. Neither side is right or wrong. Relationships can be built using either method. Think about this for a moment; Face to face, how often are you going to meet with your clients? Does anyone think that meeting with someone for an hour once a year builds a relationship? And once you've gathered hundreds of clients, how many meetings will there be? Of  course there is a lot more to building relationships than meeting face to face. As for which way to go, play to your strong suit. if you look like you're 21 go phone. If you absolutely drip charisma, go for face time. The rest of us, flip a coin.   Relationship building is a multi-channel process.   Chopping wood the old school way- There is a saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." The old school way is to match the product to the client. That is find out what the client needs and then supply it. Managed money is a product. I know your handlers are telling you it's a process, it's not.  It's a product and as such, it may not be the best match for a client. So while chopping wood the old school way may cut into your beach time while the money rolls in, doing it the old school way, letting the client decide how to pay for your services, will take your career a lot further.   Phone prospecting can be confusing to those who are new. On the surface it looks like product pushing. yet it's not. it is a means to start a conversation. Sometimes that conversation leads to a phone sale, and sometimes it leads to an appointment. Your job is to further the sales process regardless of the route it takes. Or, to exercise enough sales ability to steer the process to the route you wish it to take. it's that simple   And by the way, comparing transactional business to selling cars, in very bad taste and misinformed. Is how far the PR campaign from training depts is going these days?                
Nov 8, 2007 6:48 pm

[quote=BondGuy]

  I'll let judge come in with his own answers here on some of the points you raise. However, There are a few things here I'll ring in on.    Failure to move the account beyond a product sale -  This is your failure, not a failure of the phone sales process. One can only guess where you went wrong. That said, there are clients/customers who will never move beyond the product sale. Still, carefully building a bond of trust and competency will usually give you a seat at the table. That can be done over the phone. That you didn't do as well over the phone is a good thing for you.  It tells you to try another path. Another path in which you may be ultimately very successful.   Face to face vs over the phone - This is a personal preference. Neither side is right or wrong. Relationships can be built using either method. Think about this for a moment; Face to face, how often are you going to meet with your clients? Does anyone think that meeting with someone for an hour once a year builds a relationship? And once you've gathered hundreds of clients, how many meetings will there be? Of  course there is a lot more to building relationships than meeting face to face. As for which way to go, play to your strong suit. if you look like you're 21 go phone. If you absolutely drip charisma, go for face time. The rest of us, flip a coin.   Relationship building is a multi-channel process.   Chopping wood the old school way- There is a saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." The old school way is to match the product to the client. That is find out what the client needs and then supply it. Managed money is a product. I know your handlers are telling you it's a process, it's not.  It's a product and as such, it may not be the best match for a client. So while chopping wood the old school way may cut into your beach time while the money rolls in, doing it the old school way, letting the client decide how to pay for your services, will take your career a lot further.   Phone prospecting can be confusing to those who are new. On the surface it looks like product pushing. yet it's not. it is a means to start a conversation. Sometimes that conversation leads to a phone sale, and sometimes it leads to an appointment. Your job is to further the sales process regardless of the route it takes. Or, to exercise enough sales ability to steer the process to the route you wish it to take. it's that simple   And by the way, comparing transactional business to selling cars, in very bad taste and misinformed. Is how far the PR campaign from training depts is going these days? [/quote]

Hey BondGUY....clean out your inbox...
Nov 12, 2007 2:29 am

[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=BondGuy]

  I'll let judge come in with his own answers here on some of the points you raise. However, There are a few things here I'll ring in on.    Failure to move the account beyond a product sale -  This is your failure, not a failure of the phone sales process. One can only guess where you went wrong. That said, there are clients/customers who will never move beyond the product sale. Still, carefully building a bond of trust and competency will usually give you a seat at the table. That can be done over the phone. That you didn't do as well over the phone is a good thing for you.  It tells you to try another path. Another path in which you may be ultimately very successful.   Face to face vs over the phone - This is a personal preference. Neither side is right or wrong. Relationships can be built using either method. Think about this for a moment; Face to face, how often are you going to meet with your clients? Does anyone think that meeting with someone for an hour once a year builds a relationship? And once you've gathered hundreds of clients, how many meetings will there be? Of  course there is a lot more to building relationships than meeting face to face. As for which way to go, play to your strong suit. if you look like you're 21 go phone. If you absolutely drip charisma, go for face time. The rest of us, flip a coin.   Relationship building is a multi-channel process.   Chopping wood the old school way- There is a saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." The old school way is to match the product to the client. That is find out what the client needs and then supply it. Managed money is a product. I know your handlers are telling you it's a process, it's not.  It's a product and as such, it may not be the best match for a client. So while chopping wood the old school way may cut into your beach time while the money rolls in, doing it the old school way, letting the client decide how to pay for your services, will take your career a lot further.   Phone prospecting can be confusing to those who are new. On the surface it looks like product pushing. yet it's not. it is a means to start a conversation. Sometimes that conversation leads to a phone sale, and sometimes it leads to an appointment. Your job is to further the sales process regardless of the route it takes. Or, to exercise enough sales ability to steer the process to the route you wish it to take. it's that simple   And by the way, comparing transactional business to selling cars, in very bad taste and misinformed. Is how far the PR campaign from training depts is going these days? [/quote]

Hey BondGUY....clean out your inbox...
[/quote]   Done
Mar 1, 2008 5:57 am

[quote=The Judge]- Make an effort to open all accounts over the phone; discourage appointments (we’ll revisit this theory later on) unless it is high 6 figures or a million dollar prospect.  Takes too much time.  With the travel, meeting time, etc; we are solely focusing on the numbers here. Eventually you’ll meet with them AFTER they become clients.

[/quote]

DISCLAIMER:  I have yet to spend my first day selling.   Your posts reads like an excellent instruction manual. However, I must comment on the above phone-selling point: This strategy will likely see you starving in rural North Louisiana. I'm in an area where the majority of folks will hang up on voice mail, and come see you 'cos that's "how they do bidness 'round here." It sure would be nice to sell lots over the phone, but I'm expecting the face-to-face here.   Comments?
Mar 1, 2008 8:15 pm

Yeah, then go face-to-face.

Mar 2, 2008 2:06 pm

[quote=New2EJ&Biz] [quote=The Judge]- Make an effort to open all accounts over the phone; discourage appointments (we’ll revisit this theory later on) unless it is high 6 figures or a million dollar prospect. Takes too much time. With the travel, meeting time, etc; we are solely focusing on the numbers here. Eventually you’ll meet with them AFTER they become clients.

[/quote]



DISCLAIMER: I have yet to spend my first day selling.



Your posts reads like an excellent instruction manual. However, I must comment on the above phone-selling point:

This strategy will likely see you starving in rural North Louisiana. I’m in an area where the majority of folks will hang up on voice mail, and come see you 'cos that’s “how they do bidness 'round here.” It sure would be nice to sell lots over the phone, but I’m expecting the face-to-face here.



Comments?[/quote]



Hopefully you get the underlying message in Judge’s original post. You need a lot of activity, and ignore everything else. Yes, you will need to do things a little different depending on who you are targeting.
Apr 24, 2008 5:08 am

Thought I would bump this up for any newbies

Apr 25, 2008 12:33 am

I’ve recently launched a campaign to cold call SBO’s.  I built a list at my library using the infousa database.  I was into my 3rd day calling when one guys tells me he’s on the DNC list.  I apologized and backed off politely and he was ok about it.

  It got me thinking and I then took some of the #'s that i have been calling as well as some of the #'s of people that accepted my offer.  I crossed checked them against a DNC search engine that my firm provides and to my suprise a good amount of them are registered.   So I'm confused I was under the idea that businesses don't apply.  I went to the DNC registration page and I don't see anything that warns someone if you are business you can't register.   So for those of you that call businesses do you scrub your lists for DNC? 
Apr 25, 2008 12:40 am

Any # can be registered for the DNC list, however only residential #'s have the legal protections provided by DNC laws.  Call businesses all day long, there is nothing they can do about it.

May 14, 2008 4:12 am

[quote=The Judge]- Assume everyone has caller ID and always leave messages for existing prospects; no messages on cold calls. Leave one message a week for a prospect.  And when you get a new prospect, ask them what time and what # they prefer to be contacted.[/quote]

To clarify, once you make an initial contact with a prospect, are messages always left on follow up calls?  I just want to be sure that The Judge meant ‘existing prospects’ and not ‘existing clients’.  I have often left no messages for both prospects and clients because I have found that it is hard to get call backs…

May 14, 2008 1:25 pm

I would leave messages for clients.  Everyone has caller ID, and it is sometimes creepy to call and hang up.  If you do hang up, just make a note on their account, so the next time you call, you are aware that you did it, as the client might know that you called (in other words, you don’t want to be caught in an un-intentional lie with a client).

  Unless I have something specific that I need the client to do, or discuss, I just leave a message that I am calling to touch base.  They remember that, and even if they don't call back often, they note that you are being diligent and calling.
Jun 4, 2008 4:26 pm

This is ONE business model and it works best for introverts.  If you look at it you are sitting in an office alone for 10+ hours per day, never meeting with anyone personally and all conversations are limited to 3-5 minutes in length.  Not exactly building in-depth relationships but instead acquiring 600+ limited relationships.  Reality - this business could be run from your guest bedroom and nobody would know the difference.  It is a great system if it is what you want.  Be very careful though as this business will lead to burnout very quickly if you aren’t careful. 


Jun 4, 2008 7:35 pm

well said beagle a good post but you need to work on “getting out there” and developing relationships with COI in my opinion

Jun 4, 2008 9:06 pm

[quote=DodgerDraftpick]well said beagle a good post but you need to work on “getting out there” and developing relationships with COI in my opinion[/quote]

His business model is NOT MY business model.  I pretty much have the polar opposite business model. 

Jun 5, 2008 4:47 pm
Beagle:

This is ONE business model and it works best for introverts.  If you look at it you are sitting in an office alone for 10+ hours per day, never meeting with anyone personally and all conversations are limited to 3-5 minutes in length.  Not exactly building in-depth relationships but instead acquiring 600+ limited relationships.  Reality - this business could be run from your guest bedroom and nobody would know the difference.  It is a great system if it is what you want.  Be very careful though as this business will lead to burnout very quickly if you aren’t careful. 


  Hmm? Some how, some way, using the business plan described by The Judge I've managed to build a very large, successful business. Yup, there were plenty of days that I spent in a large board room smiling and dialing 10, 12, 14 hours a day. And then I moved to a semi private office and did the same thing. Then I moved to a small private office and did it some more. Finally, I moved to a large corner office and I continued to do it.   Sure enough, there are many limited relationships among the thousands of accounts I opened. You know, limited to buying 100 bonds at a time instead of a million at a time like many of the other accounts I've opened. And guys who can only put 200k into an annuity instead of 500k. You know, poor people!But you've gotta take the good with the bad. It's part of the deal.  And then there are those who in spite of having muti-million dollar portfolios with me, I'm not their primary advisor. Boo hoo! Very limiting! Ironically, I meet with most of these people once or twice a year. Go figure! (I make sure the bed is made)   And am I ever burned out? Youbetcha! Which is why I only work 30 hours a week now. To sooth my fried brain when you don't find me riding a motorcycle, or recreating scenes from Thunder Road in my R56 on the mountain roads of WVA, you'll find me sailing on Barnegat Bay or  barbequing the day's catch oceanside in Georgetown SC.  Some days we just park Homer, the 40 foot motorhome, on the beach, point the dish south, kick back with some cool ones and watch cars go in a circle on the flat screen. You know, all those introverted years, cooped up, a guy has got to get out and stretch a little.   Beagle, you do know that we are in this biz to make money not friends, right? The Judge's system is about making money. To make money in this biz job one is finding the money. Nothing does that better than the 500 day war. Get on the phone and ask for it. Doesn't get any more simple than that. Now, some people are offended by cold calling. They don't think it's professional. And they are entitled to that opinion. But you know what's offensive to me? Trainees joining groups to network for business. Yeah, on the outside it seems OK, But really, is it? These people are joining groups in which they have little in common and no  or little belief in the cause for the uterior motive of winning someone's trust to get in their pocket. Trainees are forced into this disingenuous situation everyday by training departments that have no other answers for them. If they aren't connected, won't cold call, what else are they going to do? It neatly expains the record fail rate the industry is now experiencing.   Say what you will about sitting in an office and pumping out call after it call. If nothing else, it's straight forward and honest. And if done right, ulimately very rewarding.          
Jun 11, 2008 1:47 am
BondGuy:

[quote=Beagle]This is ONE business model and it works best for introverts.  If you look at it you are sitting in an office alone for 10+ hours per day, never meeting with anyone personally and all conversations are limited to 3-5 minutes in length.  Not exactly building in-depth relationships but instead acquiring 600+ limited relationships.  Reality - this business could be run from your guest bedroom and nobody would know the difference.  It is a great system if it is what you want.  Be very careful though as this business will lead to burnout very quickly if you aren’t careful. 


  Hmm? Some how, some way, using the business plan described by The Judge I've managed to build a very large, successful business. Yup, there were plenty of days that I spent in a large board room smiling and dialing 10, 12, 14 hours a day. And then I moved to a semi private office and did the same thing. Then I moved to a small private office and did it some more. Finally, I moved to a large corner office and I continued to do it.   Sure enough, there are many limited relationships among the thousands of accounts I opened. You know, limited to buying 100 bonds at a time instead of a million at a time like many of the other accounts I've opened. And guys who can only put 200k into an annuity instead of 500k. You know, poor people!But you've gotta take the good with the bad. It's part of the deal.  And then there are those who in spite of having muti-million dollar portfolios with me, I'm not their primary advisor. Boo hoo! Very limiting! Ironically, I meet with most of these people once or twice a year. Go figure! (I make sure the bed is made)   And am I ever burned out? Youbetcha! Which is why I only work 30 hours a week now. To sooth my fried brain when you don't find me riding a motorcycle, or recreating scenes from Thunder Road in my R56 on the mountain roads of WVA, you'll find me sailing on Barnegat Bay or  barbequing the day's catch oceanside in Georgetown SC.  Some days we just park Homer, the 40 foot motorhome, on the beach, point the dish south, kick back with some cool ones and watch cars go in a circle on the flat screen. You know, all those introverted years, cooped up, a guy has got to get out and stretch a little.   Beagle, you do know that we are in this biz to make money not friends, right? The Judge's system is about making money. To make money in this biz job one is finding the money. Nothing does that better than the 500 day war. Get on the phone and ask for it. Doesn't get any more simple than that. Now, some people are offended by cold calling. They don't think it's professional. And they are entitled to that opinion. But you know what's offensive to me? Trainees joining groups to network for business. Yeah, on the outside it seems OK, But really, is it? These people are joining groups in which they have little in common and no  or little belief in the cause for the uterior motive of winning someone's trust to get in their pocket. Trainees are forced into this disingenuous situation everyday by training departments that have no other answers for them. If they aren't connected, won't cold call, what else are they going to do? It neatly expains the record fail rate the industry is now experiencing.   Say what you will about sitting in an office and pumping out call after it call. If nothing else, it's straight forward and honest. And if done right, ulimately very rewarding.          [/quote]   Good post, I am also using the telephone and only the telephone to build my business and it is working quite well. It's funny how many other trainees spend most of their time devising elaborate prospecting methods that eat up just enough time to make them feel like they're busy when in reality it is just call avoidance. I get plenty of social interaction from all the appointments I set through cold calling.
Jun 11, 2008 5:44 am

Wow, things have changed around here.  Good to see some of the same old posters though.  Been extremely busy these last six months trying to get this thing we call a career off the ground.  Just stumbled back onto the board and saw the good ole “500 day” thread still alive and kicking. 

  Went back and read through all the old post, and found them interesting now looking back on where I was and where I am.  I have seen no less than 10 rookies fail out of the business since the "500 day" thread started.  The vast majority of them had no contacts and tried the cold call thing, hated it, thought they were better than cold calling, and eventually missed their hurdles and are long gone.    I am one of the fortunate ones who is still around in spite of everything.  Not by pure skill mind you, there has been plenty of luck along the way.  Looking back to when "500 day" started who would have thought a rookie was going to have to fight his way through; a 25+ Billion dollar write down, a new CEO, a recession, having clients stuck in Auction Market Securities.  On top of what rookies already have to fight through to survive in this business you pile on what has been going on in the market and it's amazing anyone made it through this.    I started my way through the 500 day war, and I cold called, cold walked, and did after hours events for a good 3+ months.  Obviously none of it worked, went through a 3 month dry spell and sat with a hurdle coming up and nothing in the pipeline.  I looked up, took an inventory of the "corner offices" and decided that I would have an advice session with each of them.  I did, and what I gathered from it is the way they succeeded were 3 ways;  They either had family that had money and built a book from that, they were successful in a previous career and used their contacts from that, or they just survived from the old days and were the beneficiaries of failed brokers along the way.  So I decided to stop the cold calling, stop the cold walking and the after hours and start to squeeze every little contact I knew.  It didn't matter if I met them once at a party in college, was my little league coach, next door neighbor that moved away when I was 12, I called everyone that could recognize my name and some that couldn't.  Amazingly I actually did get a few small accounts out of this strategy, just enough to get me through my hurdle and a paycheck for another quarter.    What I did with the people who I knew that would talk to me was ask them for advice, I talked to them about my situation and asked them if they where in my situation what would they do, who would they talked to.  I was shocked it worked, I would ask someone the question and they would tell me a tidbit about someone they knew that just retired, inherited, moved to town, a relative, ect...............  So I would ask if they would introduce me to this person they just told me about and once again to my amazement they did.  Then when I met and got the new persons business I recycled and did the same thing to them.  I squeezed referrals from everyone I knew.  Yeah it isn't exactly fun and you do get a lot of "well I don't know anyone" but for me it worked a whole h#ll of a lot better than cold calling all day to people I didn't know at all.   I am by no means a successful FA yet, I have only just survived up to this point.  I am not at all saying that cold calling doesn't work, it just was not working for me and I tried something else.  I think most FA's will tell you that referrals are the way to go, but very few people tell you how to get a referral.  I like asking people for advice, it puts you on their level and gets them thinking that they are helping someone else.  Believe it or not people want to help you be successful, you just have to be willing to humble yourself and let them.  Whatever you do just survive, whether it be cold calling or referrals, it's the name of the game just do whatever it takes to survive, and if you survive long enough referrals will just happen, and one day you will look up and you will have a self sustaining book of business, a great career and a great life.       
Jun 11, 2008 8:02 pm

Bull,

Considering you are still a rookie (not sure where you are exactly), that was one of the most insightful posts I have seen in quite some time.  I also commend you on your strategy and ability to implement it.  That's something most people CAN'T or WON'T do (implement your strategy, that is).
Jun 11, 2008 9:18 pm

Bull,

Great post. Did you come up with the advice question yourself?  If so, you may want to look at:   http://www.psbtraining.com/   They are a FA coaching company that HIGHLY recommends the advice question as a way to ask for referrals. They have some good stuff.
Jun 12, 2008 12:08 am

[quote=now_indy]Bull,

Great post. Did you come up with the advice question yourself?  If so, you may want to look at:   http://www.psbtraining.com/   They are a FA coaching company that HIGHLY recommends the advice question as a way to ask for referrals. They have some good stuff.[/quote]   I can't claim that I came up with it all by myself.  About 4 months in we had a wholesaler come in and take the young guys to cocktails and talked mostly about his China fund (which I'm sure has blown up since then).  He talked about how he was a failed broker from the 80's where all he did was cold-call all day and he suggested other ways to prospect.  One of the things he said was to "Google the Bederman approach, when you get back to the office".  I think myself and everyone else blew him off and didn't look it up at the time.  Then a couple of months later in a Branch-Manager-to-struggling-newbie meeting my BM mentioned he had used the bederman approach and I ought to try it.  It's the only reason I am still employed and have a book of business today, I literally called everyone I knew, with money or without and asked if I could meet them for lunch/coffee and asked them for their advice.    I am still a rookie and have not "made it" yet, but I am doing alright considering.  Considering I didn't come from money, didn't come from a career where I knew money, and wasn't successful at cold prospecting.     The thing I am struggling with most is just the mental games that goes on in a competitive office environment.  I just get so frustrated with the other young guys who came from money and are praised by the seniors because of their production levels.  When everyone knows they didn't go out and get it, the money just came to them.  It's just something that happens in all of lifes situations, there will always be people that everything just comes easy to them.       As for me I will keep asking clients, friends, strangers for advice on how to keep my business growing.    Thanks for the support,   Rookie just trying to survive
Jun 12, 2008 12:23 am

Nice work Bull.  Awesome job.

Jun 12, 2008 1:03 am

BB,



The “Bederman Approach”? I Googled it, but can’t seem to find anything on it. Can you elaborate, or provide a link?



Thanks in advance.

Jun 12, 2008 2:01 am
Broker24:

BB,

The “Bederman Approach”? I Googled it, but can’t seem to find anything on it. Can you elaborate, or provide a link?

Thanks in advance.

  My Branch Manager said that he went to a firm sponsored seminar when he was starting out and this "Bederman" guy spoke and asking for advice was what he taught at the seminar.  I don't know where the wholesaler got the idea that we could find this guy on Google.  Like I said at the time the wholesaler told us to look it up none of us did.  After my Branch Manager explained what the process was and how he used it to grow his business I went and Googled it and found nothing then either.  Fortunately my BM told me exactly what to ask people and he told me the most important thing was to ask them "what would you do if you were in my situation, who would you talk to" then shut up and let them talk.  He said I don't care if you have to sit there for a full 2 minutes don't talk first, if you talk after you ask the question you lose.      From what I gather this Bederman guy goes around and gives private seminars to firms, but my BM did act like "everyone" knew what he was talking about when he would say "I bedermaned" this guy.    Sorry I don't have more info for you, I'll see if I can't find more out for you.  
Jun 12, 2008 2:33 am

 I did some one on one coaching with PSB for a while with John Desenberg.  Part of the coachings was exposure to PSB SMART program.  I believe that does orginate from the PSB training.  Asking for referrals in the context of asking for advice was part of the training they gave, they shared some entire psychology behind it and all,  PSB are the first initials of 3 founders one of them being Beiderman.  I believe they are all X-Merrill guys. 

  I think this is Biederman himself:   http://www.psbtraining.com/psbprod/bio_larry_login.htm  
Jun 12, 2008 2:40 am

[quote=preluder]

 I did some one on one coaching with PSB for a while with John Desenberg.  Part of the coachings was exposure to PSB SMART program.  I believe that does orginate from the PSB training.  Asking for referrals in the context of asking for advice was part of the training they gave, they shared some entire psychology behind it and all,  PSB are the first initials of 3 founders one of them being Beiderman.  I believe they are all X-Merrill guys. 

  I think this is Biederman himself:   http://www.psbtraining.com/psbprod/bio_larry_login.htm  [/quote]   That's the guy. PSB has a daily audio email that I'm currently subscribed to. They have some pretty good information.  I don't know how much it costs, as I got a temporary free subscription for being on a Nationwide call.
Jun 12, 2008 12:38 pm

[quote=preluder]

 I did some one on one coaching with PSB for a while with John Desenberg.  Part of the coachings was exposure to PSB SMART program.  I believe that does orginate from the PSB training.  Asking for referrals in the context of asking for advice was part of the training they gave, they shared some entire psychology behind it and all,  PSB are the first initials of 3 founders one of them being Beiderman.  I believe they are all X-Merrill guys. 

  I think this is Biederman himself:   http://www.psbtraining.com/psbprod/bio_larry_login.htm  [/quote]     Thanks preluder, I have been spelling his name wrong.  I guess it would help if I could spell, but yes that sounds like the guy.  It makes sense that my BM would go to a seminar put on by X-Merrill guys.    Good Stuff
Jun 12, 2008 7:35 pm

Yes, I found him on the link to PSB.  He is actually Larry Biederman.

  Good stuff.  Thanks.
Jan 26, 2009 11:58 pm

I would love to see a 500 day war for EDJ FA’s. Any takers?

Jan 27, 2009 12:06 am

Day 1: buy comfortable shoes.

Jan 27, 2009 12:18 am
Sam Houston:

Day 1: buy comfortable shoes.

  What's day 2, order American Funds brochures?
Jan 27, 2009 12:23 am

Day 2:  Use EDJ manual to learn to tie said shoes.  American Funds brochures are like on day 43.

Jan 27, 2009 12:52 am

While this is all amusing, it would be better suited in its own thread...

Jan 27, 2009 2:04 pm

[quote=Indyone]

While this is all amusing, it would be better suited in its own thread...

[/quote]   Actually, I was serious. Let me re-phrase my question: has someone run the numbers on cold walks compared to cold calls?
Jan 27, 2009 2:12 pm

Matt, it’s hard to compare the two.  With cold-walking, it will all depend on the type of area you live in (i.e. dual-income working area, retiree area, etc.).  Some people may say they go out all day face-to-face, but can’t find anyone home.  If they had just gone from 4:30 - 6:30, they might find 30 people home.  It will also tedn to be different in different areas of the country.  My southern counterparts say doorknocking works like a charm - people love to talk, they like having someone come to their door to introduce themselves.  In New England…uhhhh…not so much.  I will say that face-to-face meetings with business owners works well, if framed correctly.  You REALLY need to just introduce yourself and let them know what you do.  Get the conversation going.  I think that often works better than cold calls.  On the flip side, you can’t go and see nearly as many people walking as calling.

Just some thoughts....
Jan 27, 2009 2:14 pm

[quote=BullBroker][quote=now_indy]Bull,

Great post. Did you come up with the advice question yourself?  If so, you may want to look at:   http://www.psbtraining.com/   They are a FA coaching company that HIGHLY recommends the advice question as a way to ask for referrals. They have some good stuff.[/quote]   I can't claim that I came up with it all by myself.  About 4 months in we had a wholesaler come in and take the young guys to cocktails and talked mostly about his China fund (which I'm sure has blown up since then).  He talked about how he was a failed broker from the 80's where all he did was cold-call all day and he suggested other ways to prospect.  One of the things he said was to "Google the Bederman approach, when you get back to the office".  I think myself and everyone else blew him off and didn't look it up at the time.  Then a couple of months later in a Branch-Manager-to-struggling-newbie meeting my BM mentioned he had used the bederman approach and I ought to try it.  It's the only reason I am still employed and have a book of business today, I literally called everyone I knew, with money or without and asked if I could meet them for lunch/coffee and asked them for their advice.    I am still a rookie and have not "made it" yet, but I am doing alright considering.  Considering I didn't come from money, didn't come from a career where I knew money, and wasn't successful at cold prospecting.     The thing I am struggling with most is just the mental games that goes on in a competitive office environment.  I just get so frustrated with the other young guys who came from money and are praised by the seniors because of their production levels.  When everyone knows they didn't go out and get it, the money just came to them.  It's just something that happens in all of lifes situations, there will always be people that everything just comes easy to them.       As for me I will keep asking clients, friends, strangers for advice on how to keep my business growing.    Thanks for the support,   Rookie just trying to survive[/quote]   Bull,   Your post is from June. I hope you are still around. My 2 cents: those guys that came from money will never feel what you feel knowing that you created your own wealth. I hope you are still at it and I hope you succeed the American way.
Jan 27, 2009 2:16 pm

[quote=B24]Matt, it’s hard to compare the two.  With cold-walking, it will all depend on the type of area you live in (i.e. dual-income working area, retiree area, etc.).  Some people may say they go out all day face-to-face, but can’t find anyone home.  If they had just gone from 4:30 - 6:30, they might find 30 people home.  It will also tedn to be different in different areas of the country.  My southern counterparts say doorknocking works like a charm - people love to talk, they like having someone come to their door to introduce themselves.  In New England…uhhhh…not so much.  I will say that face-to-face meetings with business owners works well, if framed correctly.  You REALLY need to just introduce yourself and let them know what you do.  Get the conversation going.  I think that often works better than cold calls.  On the flip side, you can’t go and see nearly as many people walking as calling.

Just some thoughts....[/quote]   Good stuff. Thanks!
Jan 27, 2009 2:45 pm
Sam Houston:

Day 1: buy comfortable shoes.

  Day 500: Quit because you can't afford new shoes.  
Jan 27, 2009 4:34 pm

[quote=B24]Matt, it’s hard to compare the two.  With cold-walking, it will all depend on the type of area you live in (i.e. dual-income working area, retiree area, etc.).  Some people may say they go out all day face-to-face, but can’t find anyone home.  If they had just gone from 4:30 - 6:30, they might find 30 people home.  It will also tedn to be different in different areas of the country.  My southern counterparts say doorknocking works like a charm - people love to talk, they like having someone come to their door to introduce themselves.  In New England…uhhhh…not so much.  I will say that face-to-face meetings with business owners works well, if framed correctly.  You REALLY need to just introduce yourself and let them know what you do.  Get the conversation going.  I think that often works better than cold calls.  On the flip side, you can’t go and see nearly as many people walking as calling.

Just some thoughts....[/quote]   It's not hard to compare the two... It just doesn't work well for EDJ..   Using your example.. Someone doorknocks all day long and gets 3 contacts. But at 4:30-6:30 he gets 30.... So 33 for the day...   Someone who calls during the day, can cover more ground and get more than 3 contacts, and at night still get a good portion that the doorknocker got.   I think you can just cover more ground calling vs knocking ( I have done both)..    
Jan 27, 2009 6:21 pm

Squash, I don’t think this is an issue of anyone vs. Jones.  I was talking about pure logistics.  Some will tell you they knocked all day and got nothing, another will tell you they knocked for 2 hours and got 30.  My point was simply that you have to compare apples-to-apples.

And I was not commenting on the merits of calling vs. walking - just the challenge with discussing the comparison of the two.  I know some people taht love to cold walk, and I know some that love to cold call.  I'm not sure what you mean by It doesn't work at EDJ.  Plenty of us cold call (or have cold called).  I personally think cold calling is much more efficient.   The other thing I didn't mention (to the detriment of cold walking).  Where I live in New England, there are like 5, 10, 15 houses on each street, or one house every 1/4 mile.  Get back in your car, find another street, repeat.  In many parts of the country, there are developments with literally hundreds of houses within a few square miles, all stacked on top of each other.  You can hit 100 in just a few hours.  That just doesn't exist up here.  So walking is REALLY inefficient.  Once I finished the larger neighborhoods in my area, I sort of gave up walking, as it just took too damn long to hit enough houses.
Jan 28, 2009 5:59 am

I meant the comparison didn’t work in EDJs favor…

  I camed to the same conclusion you did and that is cold calling is more efficient(summary of my post).
Jan 28, 2009 1:12 pm

[quote=B24]Squash, I don’t think this is an issue of anyone vs. Jones.  I was talking about pure logistics.  Some will tell you they knocked all day and got nothing, another will tell you they knocked for 2 hours and got 30.  My point was simply that you have to compare apples-to-apples.

And I was not commenting on the merits of calling vs. walking - just the challenge with discussing the comparison of the two.  I know some people taht love to cold walk, and I know some that love to cold call.  I'm not sure what you mean by It doesn't work at EDJ.  Plenty of us cold call (or have cold called).  I personally think cold calling is much more efficient.   The other thing I didn't mention (to the detriment of cold walking).  Where I live in New England, there are like 5, 10, 15 houses on each street, or one house every 1/4 mile.  Get back in your car, find another street, repeat.  In many parts of the country, there are developments with literally hundreds of houses within a few square miles, all stacked on top of each other.  You can hit 100 in just a few hours.  That just doesn't exist up here.  So walking is REALLY inefficient.  Once I finished the larger neighborhoods in my area, I sort of gave up walking, as it just took too damn long to hit enough houses.[/quote]   B,   Other than the cold walking, do you find the 500 Day War to be a good template for this business?
Jan 28, 2009 8:15 pm

Well, maybe it would have been if I had discovered it earlier on in my business.  The bottom line of the War is that it's all about the numbers.  Not to say that quality doesn't matter, but you can't get 100 clients if you have only talked to 30.  Talk to 1000, and you'll get 100. 

What I have found is that the simple (yet so elusive) act of talking and meeting a lot of people just results in business.  Activity breeds results.

One caveat to the 500 Day War (for me).  I simply cannot open acounts over the phone with people I have never met.  It doesn't match my personality, and it doesn't match how I do business.  So some of the specifics of the War need to be modified for individual circumstances.  But the premise behind the whole thing is activity, and lots of it (prospecting activity, not research and portfolio reviews, etc.)
Jan 28, 2009 10:41 pm

[quote=B24]

Well, maybe it would have been if I had discovered it earlier on in my business.  The bottom line of the War is that it's all about the numbers.  Not to say that quality doesn't matter, but you can't get 100 clients if you have only talked to 30.  Talk to 1000, and you'll get 100. 

What I have found is that the simple (yet so elusive) act of talking and meeting a lot of people just results in business.  Activity breeds results.

One caveat to the 500 Day War (for me).  I simply cannot open acounts over the phone with people I have never met.  It doesn't match my personality, and it doesn't match how I do business.  So some of the specifics of the War need to be modified for individual circumstances.  But the premise behind the whole thing is activity, and lots of it (prospecting activity, not research and portfolio reviews, etc.)[/quote]   Seems to be a common thread in sales. Activity breeds results. One thing that has been concerning me (as almost everyone else in this forum) is the current state of our economy. Honestly speaking, all things being equal, is this a good (and by good I mean smart) time to get into this business? I have 4 more days to change my mind. Everyday I see a new piece of news that causes concern over my decision. What is your honest opinion?  
Jan 28, 2009 10:56 pm

[quote=maddmatt][quote=B24]

Well, maybe it would have been if I had discovered it earlier on in my business.  The bottom line of the War is that it's all about the numbers.  Not to say that quality doesn't matter, but you can't get 100 clients if you have only talked to 30.  Talk to 1000, and you'll get 100. 

What I have found is that the simple (yet so elusive) act of talking and meeting a lot of people just results in business.  Activity breeds results.

One caveat to the 500 Day War (for me).  I simply cannot open acounts over the phone with people I have never met.  It doesn't match my personality, and it doesn't match how I do business.  So some of the specifics of the War need to be modified for individual circumstances.  But the premise behind the whole thing is activity, and lots of it (prospecting activity, not research and portfolio reviews, etc.)[/quote]   Seems to be a common thread in sales. Activity breeds results. One thing that has been concerning me (as almost everyone else in this forum) is the current state of our economy. Honestly speaking, all things being equal, is this a good (and by good I mean smart) time to get into this business? I have 4 more days to change my mind. Everyday I see a new piece of news that causes concern over my decision. What is your honest opinion?  [/quote]

Change your mind about what?
Jan 28, 2009 11:53 pm

[quote=Hank Moody] [quote=maddmatt][quote=B24]

Well, maybe it would have been if I had discovered it earlier on in my business.  The bottom line of the War is that it's all about the numbers.  Not to say that quality doesn't matter, but you can't get 100 clients if you have only talked to 30.  Talk to 1000, and you'll get 100. 

What I have found is that the simple (yet so elusive) act of talking and meeting a lot of people just results in business.  Activity breeds results.

One caveat to the 500 Day War (for me).  I simply cannot open acounts over the phone with people I have never met.  It doesn't match my personality, and it doesn't match how I do business.  So some of the specifics of the War need to be modified for individual circumstances.  But the premise behind the whole thing is activity, and lots of it (prospecting activity, not research and portfolio reviews, etc.)[/quote]   Seems to be a common thread in sales. Activity breeds results. One thing that has been concerning me (as almost everyone else in this forum) is the current state of our economy. Honestly speaking, all things being equal, is this a good (and by good I mean smart) time to get into this business? I have 4 more days to change my mind. Everyday I see a new piece of news that causes concern over my decision. What is your honest opinion?  [/quote]

Change your mind about what?
[/quote]   Hank,
I will indulge you even though your history in this forum is that of the resident wise ass. With that being said, I am scheduled to begin training with Edward Jones Feb.2nd. While I have been committed to this mentally for 4 months now, the news lately has not been good. Observing the intense negativity in this forum and elsewhere would lead a prudent person to question whether this is a good (smart) time to become a financial advisor. I will be spending the next four days searching my soul to make sure this is what I really want to do. Otherwise, why bother, right? You might say I'm getting cold feet.
Jan 29, 2009 12:11 am

[quote=maddmatt][quote=Hank Moody] [quote=maddmatt][quote=B24]

Well, maybe it would have been if I had discovered it earlier on in my business.  The bottom line of the War is that it's all about the numbers.  Not to say that quality doesn't matter, but you can't get 100 clients if you have only talked to 30.  Talk to 1000, and you'll get 100. 

What I have found is that the simple (yet so elusive) act of talking and meeting a lot of people just results in business.  Activity breeds results.

One caveat to the 500 Day War (for me).  I simply cannot open acounts over the phone with people I have never met.  It doesn't match my personality, and it doesn't match how I do business.  So some of the specifics of the War need to be modified for individual circumstances.  But the premise behind the whole thing is activity, and lots of it (prospecting activity, not research and portfolio reviews, etc.)[/quote]   Seems to be a common thread in sales. Activity breeds results. One thing that has been concerning me (as almost everyone else in this forum) is the current state of our economy. Honestly speaking, all things being equal, is this a good (and by good I mean smart) time to get into this business? I have 4 more days to change my mind. Everyday I see a new piece of news that causes concern over my decision. What is your honest opinion?  [/quote]

Change your mind about what?
[/quote]   Hank,
I will indulge you even though your history in this forum is that of the resident wise ass. With that being said, I am scheduled to begin training with Edward Jones Feb.2nd. While I have been committed to this mentally for 4 months now, the news lately has not been good. Observing the intense negativity in this forum and elsewhere would lead a prudent person to question whether this is a good (smart) time to become a financial advisor. I will be spending the next four days searching my soul to make sure this is what I really want to do. Otherwise, why bother, right? You might say I'm getting cold feet.[/quote]

Don't flatter yourself by indulging me.
Jan 29, 2009 1:44 am

[quote=Hank Moody] [quote=maddmatt][quote=Hank Moody] [quote=maddmatt][quote=B24]

Well, maybe it would have been if I had discovered it earlier on in my business.  The bottom line of the War is that it's all about the numbers.  Not to say that quality doesn't matter, but you can't get 100 clients if you have only talked to 30.  Talk to 1000, and you'll get 100. 

What I have found is that the simple (yet so elusive) act of talking and meeting a lot of people just results in business.  Activity breeds results.

One caveat to the 500 Day War (for me).  I simply cannot open acounts over the phone with people I have never met.  It doesn't match my personality, and it doesn't match how I do business.  So some of the specifics of the War need to be modified for individual circumstances.  But the premise behind the whole thing is activity, and lots of it (prospecting activity, not research and portfolio reviews, etc.)[/quote]   Seems to be a common thread in sales. Activity breeds results. One thing that has been concerning me (as almost everyone else in this forum) is the current state of our economy. Honestly speaking, all things being equal, is this a good (and by good I mean smart) time to get into this business? I have 4 more days to change my mind. Everyday I see a new piece of news that causes concern over my decision. What is your honest opinion?  [/quote]

Change your mind about what?
[/quote]   Hank,
I will indulge you even though your history in this forum is that of the resident wise ass. With that being said, I am scheduled to begin training with Edward Jones Feb.2nd. While I have been committed to this mentally for 4 months now, the news lately has not been good. Observing the intense negativity in this forum and elsewhere would lead a prudent person to question whether this is a good (smart) time to become a financial advisor. I will be spending the next four days searching my soul to make sure this is what I really want to do. Otherwise, why bother, right? You might say I'm getting cold feet.[/quote]

Don't flatter yourself by indulging me.
[/quote]   As usual, your valuable insight is only surpassed by your charm. Pretend I'm worth it and give me some sage advice.
Jan 29, 2009 1:46 am

He doesn’t have any advice, sage or otherwise to give. 

Jan 29, 2009 1:54 am

My advice is:  Don’t do it.  You don’t have the balls.  You’re like a non-committal prospect: No time is going to be the right time to pull the trigger.  I’m not trying to be an asshole, but this is my gut talking.  My guess is Hank would agree with me.

  I'd say get a job at the USPS, but they're cutting back too.  Good luck to you.
Jan 29, 2009 4:56 am

[quote=deekay]My advice is:  Don’t do it.  You don’t have the balls.  You’re like a non-committal prospect: No time is going to be the right time to pull the trigger.  I’m not trying to be an asshole, but this is my gut talking.  My guess is Hank would agree with me.

  I'd say get a job at the USPS, but they're cutting back too.  Good luck to you.[/quote]


Yes.
Jan 29, 2009 2:15 pm

correct. I was in your shoes a few years ago, but i had a dozen years of sales exp already. Therefore I knew that there is ALWAYS excuses for NOT doing the numbers and that it was gonna suck for 3 years in the BEST economy cuz heavy-duty grunt work cold calling with a barking dog in your crotch as it starts to rain and you’re behind for the week is a bitch.

  I did it.
Jan 29, 2009 2:19 pm

Just to be clear: you have no chance (based on your post). EVERYONE FEELS LIKE QUITTING sometime in that first 3 years - and you’ll be the first to go.

Jan 29, 2009 2:43 pm
newnew:

Just to be clear: you have no chance (based on your post). EVERYONE FEELS LIKE QUITTING sometime in that first 3 years - and you’ll be the first to go.

  I appreciate the honesty. I'm more motivated now than I was 4 months ago.
Jan 29, 2009 2:48 pm
maddmatt:

[quote=newnew]Just to be clear: you have no chance (based on your post). EVERYONE FEELS LIKE QUITTING sometime in that first 3 years - and you’ll be the first to go.

  I appreciate the honesty. I'm more motivated now than I was 4 months ago.[/quote]

You've had an uptick in motivation and still having doubts?
Jan 29, 2009 2:57 pm
Hank Moody:

[quote=maddmatt][quote=newnew]Just to be clear: you have no chance (based on your post). EVERYONE FEELS LIKE QUITTING sometime in that first 3 years - and you’ll be the first to go.

  I appreciate the honesty. I'm more motivated now than I was 4 months ago.[/quote]

You've had an uptick in motivation and still having doubts?
[/quote]   I was having doubts. I heard what I needed to hear. Let the games begin.
Jan 29, 2009 3:21 pm
maddmatt:

[quote=Hank Moody] [quote=maddmatt][quote=newnew]Just to be clear: you have no chance (based on your post). EVERYONE FEELS LIKE QUITTING sometime in that first 3 years - and you’ll be the first to go.

  I appreciate the honesty. I'm more motivated now than I was 4 months ago.[/quote]

You've had an uptick in motivation and still having doubts?
[/quote]   I was having doubts. I heard what I needed to hear. Let the games begin.[/quote]


What are you going to do if your computer crashes when you need to hear something?
Jan 29, 2009 3:26 pm

[quote=maddmatt][quote=B24]

Well, maybe it would have been if I had discovered it earlier on in my business.  The bottom line of the War is that it's all about the numbers.  Not to say that quality doesn't matter, but you can't get 100 clients if you have only talked to 30.  Talk to 1000, and you'll get 100. 

What I have found is that the simple (yet so elusive) act of talking and meeting a lot of people just results in business.  Activity breeds results.

One caveat to the 500 Day War (for me).  I simply cannot open acounts over the phone with people I have never met.  It doesn't match my personality, and it doesn't match how I do business.  So some of the specifics of the War need to be modified for individual circumstances.  But the premise behind the whole thing is activity, and lots of it (prospecting activity, not research and portfolio reviews, etc.)[/quote]   Seems to be a common thread in sales. Activity breeds results. One thing that has been concerning me (as almost everyone else in this forum) is the current state of our economy. Honestly speaking, all things being equal, is this a good (and by good I mean smart) time to get into this business? I have 4 more days to change my mind. Everyday I see a new piece of news that causes concern over my decision. What is your honest opinion?  [/quote]

If you are willing to make a 100% commitment this is a great time to get in the business.  Investors are hurting and many advisors are leaving the business out of frustration and disappointment.  Those clients are going to need help...there is money in motion and if you are in touch with a lot of new people every day(as you should be) you can catch some of that money.

Having said that, your post causes me to think you're not ready to make the commitment that is required to be successful in this business.
Jan 29, 2009 4:35 pm
Hank Moody:

[quote=maddmatt][quote=Hank Moody] [quote=maddmatt][quote=newnew]Just to be clear: you have no chance (based on your post). EVERYONE FEELS LIKE QUITTING sometime in that first 3 years - and you’ll be the first to go.

  I appreciate the honesty. I'm more motivated now than I was 4 months ago.[/quote]

You've had an uptick in motivation and still having doubts?
[/quote]   I was having doubts. I heard what I needed to hear. Let the games begin.[/quote]


What are you going to do if your computer crashes when you need to hear something?
[/quote]   This is one of many sources I utilize to make my decisions. Between these posts and my other support mechanisms I have been able to clear my head. So, thanks for your help.
Jan 29, 2009 4:40 pm

Good post Hyman.

  Today, across this country trainees are entering our business who will go on to become top producers, multi-million dollar producers. Where some see road blocks and make excuses, others see opportunity and seize it with a I will not be denied tenacity.   There will never be an easy time to become a success. Today is as good as any day to take the first step. And if you should fail, it's not the market, the economy, the banks, the politicians, or the clients that caused the failure. It's you. It's that simple. It's what this business is all about.   How not to fail? Make up your mind that you're not going to fail. Then do everything it takes to succeed. Most likely everything it takes will take you far beyond your comfort level. That's a good thing. The knot in your stomach will lead you down the right path.   Without a 100% committment failure is all but assured. There is big, I mean really big money to be made here. Here's the problem, they don't just give it to you. You have to earn it. And earning it will be the hardest thing you've ever done-regardless of your backgorund. Those lacking a 100% committment quickly fold their tent when they realize that success comes only after pushing a rock uphill for 70 hours a week for years. That's what you're signing up for. Either you're all in or you're out in a heartbeat.
Jan 29, 2009 4:42 pm
maddmatt:

[quote=Hank Moody] [quote=maddmatt][quote=Hank Moody] [quote=maddmatt][quote=newnew]Just to be clear: you have no chance (based on your post). EVERYONE FEELS LIKE QUITTING sometime in that first 3 years - and you’ll be the first to go.

  I appreciate the honesty. I'm more motivated now than I was 4 months ago.[/quote]

You've had an uptick in motivation and still having doubts?
[/quote]   I was having doubts. I heard what I needed to hear. Let the games begin.[/quote]


What are you going to do if your computer crashes when you need to hear something?
[/quote]   This is one of many sources I utilize to make my decisions. Between these posts and my other support mechanisms I have been able to clear my head. So, thanks for your help.[/quote]

I'm just jacking with you. Good luck.
Jan 29, 2009 6:27 pm

Hank was polite!!!

Jan 29, 2009 10:16 pm

Maybe he's drunk too.  It would certainly explain the nicey-nice. 

Jan 29, 2009 10:43 pm

[quote=newnew]Hank was polite!!![/quote]


I’m only rude to idiots.

Mar 31, 2009 11:02 pm

Bump for Page 1 original post and Page 10 BondGuy

Mar 31, 2009 11:52 pm

Its post like this one that keeps me coming back… But there haven’t been a lot of these lately, more name calling and doubters(yeah I am part of that too).  I haven’t seen a Judge post in a while(maybe he retired) BondGuy is still making great posts.

Apr 3, 2009 2:43 am

Judge-

I would like to talk to you offline about some training if you are interested. Please respond to this email if you are interested and I’ll shoot you my email address.



All the Best

Chris

Jul 13, 2009 10:23 pm

Thinking about trying to get involved in this business. This forum and specifically this thread has been extremely informative, thanks! I have done cold calling and sales for a long time now so i’m not affraid of the phone. My question is this, with the problems we have seen in the economy and all the losses people have suffered are people finding that it is harder to open new accounts? Or are the $ amounts simply lower? Has the Madoff and other ponzi schemes out there made it more difficult to gain folks trust over the phone? Thanks for the thoughts, just starting to research this path…

Jul 13, 2009 10:45 pm

The only obstacle is between your ears. That is: If you believe it’s harder,well then it’s harder. If you believe it’s harder because of the economy, fraud etc, well then it is harder-for you.

  Make no mistake, cold calling IS harder today than it was 10 years ago and it was harder 10 years ago than it was 10 years before that. But not because of the markets, economy, fraud etc. Those things have always been there. And there is always a reason not to invest. The markets are too high, the market is too low, I'm waiting for rates to go higher etc etc etc. Nothing happening in the markets is really new. We've been here before, time and time again. I  point to the crash of 87 and Ivan Boesky as prime examples of the same thing different times. The reason it's tougher today is because of technology and the DNC. These makes contacting your target prospect harder. These challenges to be overcome. Unfortunately most let the challenges overcome them.   For those starting today using cold calling as their primary marketing channel i would recommend a 70 to 80 hour work week filled with as many calls as possible. I would advise that they turn off their quote machines, TVs, and radios and not let the day's events sidetrack them. None of it matters. Today somewhere in this country is a rookie in his/her first day of production who will rise to become a multi million dollar producer. No distractions, no excuses, just going for it!
Jul 14, 2009 1:21 am
MCCBULLS:

Thinking about trying to get involved in this business. This forum and specifically this thread has been extremely informative, thanks! I have done cold calling and sales for a long time now so i’m not affraid of the phone. My question is this, with the problems we have seen in the economy and all the losses people have suffered are people finding that it is harder to open new accounts? Or are the $ amounts simply lower? Has the Madoff and other ponzi schemes out there made it more difficult to gain folks trust over the phone? Thanks for the thoughts, just starting to research this path…

  McBull My response to your post is short and sweet - i spent 10 years worrying about whether the time was right, before i finally changed careers and came into this business. That was the biggest mistake i made, and the only regret I have. I finally came into the business in 2000.. Opened my first discretionary account on the day that NASDAQ hit 5000. Then the world ccame to an end. And a year or two later, cold calling was like bluefishing on a warm summer night - all i had to do was try, and things happened.   Bond Guy gave you good advice. Dont make the same mistake i made. If you have a passion for it (and thats important) then just do it
Jul 30, 2009 7:41 pm

Great thread! Im thinking about becoming a RIA and this thread has helped a lot. It is pretty motivating to hear both the success and failures, it just makes me want it more. Im glad i stumbled onto this forum.

Aug 12, 2009 1:26 pm

I’m not a rookie but fit that plateau description. 

  Big question.  To get that many dials and actually get someone during the day are you calling businesses / business owners during the day time hours or just creating a list of people that may be retired and caught at home during the day.
Aug 12, 2009 3:12 pm

[quote=Aviator4240]I’m not a rookie but fit that plateau description. 

  Big question.  To get that many dials and actually get someone during the day are you calling businesses / business owners during the day time hours or just creating a list of people that may be retired and caught at home during the day.[/quote]   All the above. become a name collector. Create lists of people who are likely to have money. The name of the game is Find the money!   Business owners have money and make an excellent daytime list.
Aug 13, 2009 5:25 am

I think you mean Muh-Ney,  I’m a BG user also.

Aug 13, 2009 7:46 am

[quote=BondGuy] The only obstacle is between your ears. That is: If you believe it’s harder,well then it’s harder. If you believe it’s harder because of the economy, fraud etc, well then it is harder-for you.



Make no mistake, cold calling IS harder today than it was 10 years ago and it was harder 10 years ago than it was 10 years before that. But not because of the markets, economy, fraud etc. Those things have always been there. And there is always a reason not to invest. The markets are too high, the market is too low, I’m waiting for rates to go higher etc etc etc. Nothing happening in the markets is really new. We’ve been here before, time and time again. I point to the crash of 87 and Ivan Boesky as prime examples of the same thing different times. The reason it’s tougher today is because of technology and the DNC. These makes contacting your target prospect harder. These challenges to be overcome. Unfortunately most let the challenges overcome them.



For those starting today using cold calling as their primary marketing channel i would recommend a 70 to 80 hour work week filled with as many calls as possible. I would advise that they turn off their quote machines, TVs, and radios and not let the day’s events sidetrack them. None of it matters. Today somewhere in this country is a rookie in his/her first day of production who will rise to become a multi million dollar producer. No distractions, no excuses, just going for it![/quote]



I may be starting fairly soon, after I study and pass my Series 7.



Is Good’s course (which is 4k) worth it? Or can I get parts of it from his books? Any other methods that you would recommend?



Also, with EDJ advocating door knocking, it is worth devoting the 5pm-8pm residentially with this method after the cold calls?



Aug 31, 2009 6:06 am

Thanks Judge,

This post is going on my wall and i’m going to read it everyday as an FA until its burnt into my head.

Aug 31, 2009 7:35 pm

Has anyone actually followed this? What were your results? similar?

Sep 7, 2009 12:51 pm

Judge,

       Thanks.  Thanks to other contributors as well.  This is helpful.   Purpose
Dec 8, 2009 8:05 pm

So bondguy, simply put would you recommend:

  1.  Call businesses and ask for the business owner. 2.  When you get her on the line pitch her your favorite muni bond of the day 3.  Repeat 200 times a day   Thanks, your advise on this forum is priceless. 
Dec 9, 2009 3:07 pm

I think bondguy would say yes…

Dec 9, 2009 9:55 pm
Squash1:

I think bondguy would say yes…

  Yup or yep depending on what part of the country you're from.   You can calls guys as well.   You can use a fund to lead with if you don't want to use a bond.   you don't need either, just call'em and tell'em you're seeing great munis/pref/corps/GNMA etc yielding X and wouold they like to hear about it the next time you have one?   The key is less in what you say and more in how many times you say it.   Believe me, if you aren't getting a decent response rate your frustration will lead you pitch revision perfection.
Dec 10, 2009 1:56 am

Thanks for the response bondguy and squash.  

Jan 11, 2010 2:27 am

Here is a question:



Is it better to lead in with a product, like a bond, or your services (on what you can do for them)



Comments Bond?

Jan 11, 2010 4:29 am

It doesnt matter. Whether you lead with a bond or your services, your goal on the first call is still the same, to get them talking so you can qualify or disqualify. So the answer is whichever you feel most comfortable and confident with, because whats important is that you sound confident.

Jan 11, 2010 4:57 am
Sportsfreakbob:

It doesnt matter. Whether you lead with a bond or your services, your goal on the first call is still the same, to get them talking so you can qualify or disqualify. So the answer is whichever you feel most comfortable and confident with, because whats important is that you sound confident.

Bingo.
Jan 11, 2010 6:01 am

Thanks for your take.



I hear FA’s talk about relationship building, and that to do it correctly you have to have a face to face meeting, since you want to be the client’s focus for all financial matters. Does it matter?



I know one of the classic blow-offs is to say send something in the mail, and if you are just wanting to do everything my phone, how do you deal with this issue?



Comments?

Jan 11, 2010 12:58 pm

1st call - qualify and send something

2nd call - close for appointment. Yes it matters, this is a relationship business, you establish relationships in face to face meetings.rarely (not never) on the phone without at least one face to face
Jan 12, 2010 12:18 am

I've always led with product. But SFBob has exactly right. It matters more that you make as many calls as possible. Call/mail/call is a well traveled road to success in this biz.

You will get blown off, everyday, dozens of times. You will need find a way, through experience, to weed out those w/o money or intent. Everyone else, you keep calling and talking and sending info and meeting until they open or die. Over time a relationship is built. With that comes trust.

Jan 12, 2010 4:18 am

Here is a question related to that. I know some prospects will blow you off by saying send something in the mail. I don’t mind mailing them, but I guess what you guys are saying the percentages will still hit?



What is a good thing to mail? The standard stuff why my firm is good and etc., or a research report?

Jan 12, 2010 1:40 pm

Doesn’t matter what you mail, just like it doesnt matter what they say.

I mail a standard letter that i composed and had client approved, nothing special, with one of my brochures that has my picture in it (so they can see that i am old) Usually when i call back the say, well, i havent had a chance to look it over yet. I understand that mr client, i realize you have a busy schedule. With that said, the point of my call and my letter was just to tell you a bit about what i do for my clients. I think i have a unique approach, and i'd like to stop by one day this week - i would only need 15 minutes.
Jan 12, 2010 3:23 pm

Thanks for the advice on that one. Your approach gives you an opportunity to mine the mailing prospects. You guys are great.



I have to call like a mofo within 2 weeks. I was thinking of calling the East Coast (since I live in CA) for a couple of hours and then hit the West when it gets to be 7:30. Just want to see what I can open just through the phone. I figure calling 8-10 hours daily and working up to 12 should eventually cause some money to flow. If that works (just by opening by the phone) the way Judge and Bond says it does then I will by psyched.







Jan 13, 2010 2:46 am

Can you invite to your office a cold call lead

Apr 30, 2010 12:13 am

Great article, maybe a stupid question (and from what i've read you guys are brutal with stupid questions) but can someone provide the reasoning for the below...

"- Don't solicit or accept friend or family accounts."

be kind..

Apr 30, 2010 4:42 pm

I think for two reasons:

1. Gives you a false sense of security that you are actually prospecting

2. If you fail, how happy will those people be when you do?

Apr 30, 2010 7:10 pm

Thanks for the reply.  It just seems to me like you're ignoring a huge market, family, friends and friends of family & friends. These are people who already trust you, know your character and you'd have to spend less time selling to. 

Maybe for this specific plan, its best to target these people after the first 500 days once you are settled and more confident? Would be great to have a sure thing waiting for you after going through the 500 days...

I am asking these questions because I am seriously considering a career change and am willing to put in the work hell for the success. 

as for the second point, i try not to think about failure as an option. but for discussion sake, lets say you do fail. what happens to their accounts? transferred to another advisor? 

Apr 30, 2010 8:42 pm

How would you have handled family/friend accounts if you had started in 2007, and you proceeded to lose 40% of their money in 2008 and not know WTF to do or say to them?

Apr 30, 2010 9:21 pm

As far as I know, the majority of people, Goldman excluded, lost money during that time.  whether they went with a stranger or family member/friend doesnt change what the economy does, and arent you supposed to educate them on the risks of investing before they choose their investments?

so do you personally not do any business with friends/family? I'm just trying to learn..

May 1, 2010 1:41 pm

Smokey this is a sales job, until you have enough assets to maintain a decent living..

First year expectations at a wirehouse are $7-10 million in assets, and then next year it is the same and the next year it is the same... So you need $21-30 million by year 3 to make around $120k(if you fee based it all)...

So if your family and friends have $21-30M and are willing to go into a fee program, then use friends and family... problem for most people is that friends and family will take them to about $5M(you would be surprised how many people won't go with you... and why would they, you just started you have no idea what you are doing).. People never prospect instead they "avoid" and go after friends and family..

Your friends and family will be xfered to another broker, who may or may not churn them or even call them...

I accepted friends and family after year 4...

May 1, 2010 5:34 pm

Thank you guys, this has been very helpful. Makes sense. I hope Judge comes back and updates his list for the next few years like he said..

May 1, 2010 10:33 pm

[quote=squash2]

Smokey this is a sales job, until you have enough assets to maintain a decent living..

First year expectations at a wirehouse are $7-10 million in assets, and then next year it is the same and the next year it is the same... So you need $21-30 million by year 3 to make around $120k(if you fee based it all)...

So if your family and friends have $21-30M and are willing to go into a fee program, then use friends and family... problem for most people is that friends and family will take them to about $5M(you would be surprised how many people won't go with you... and why would they, you just started you have no idea what you are doing).. People never prospect instead they "avoid" and go after friends and family..

Your friends and family will be xfered to another broker, who may or may not churn them or even call them...

I accepted friends and family after year 4...

[/quote]

The sad thing is that the majors expect you to bring in this kind of money without any training - I wonder what happen to the old days of training guys to call on the phone. I don't see it a Merrill. 

May 4, 2010 6:39 pm

Then there's this:

The poisoned well.

Years ago I was part of a large sailing group. As is my rule, i won't do business with recreational affinity groups as i don't want to work while i play. However, that didn't save me from poisoned well syndrome within this group. One week I invited a co-worker to join me as crew. During some downtime the co-worker was picking my brain about what i was buying and why. Unknown to me at the time one of the group members, Frank, a wealthy businessman,overheard what I was buying, called his broker, and bought it away from me. A few weeks later i sold my entire position in this stock as the fundemental story was detoriorating. Then about two months later negative news hit the stock sending it plummeting. Only then did my phone ring. It was Frank, he wanted to know what the story was with X. I was horrified. I told him that I had been out of the position for months. On the phone he told me it was his fault for not buying the stock from me. True!!!! But within the group I got the reputation as the guy who screwed Frank on a bad stock recco. This, though all my CLIENTS made money on the trade.

Think you can explain to a group of friends that so and so screwed himself? Good luck!

May 4, 2010 6:01 pm

Bond Guy:

For those of us not at a wire: Give us an update on what new guys are doing... In my area it is nothing but seminar and "networking", no calling at all..

Just curious

May 4, 2010 6:42 pm

I'm at what might be called a super regional, but it's wire-like enough to qualify as one. I can speak only for my office, referrals and cold calling.

May 4, 2010 6:56 pm

I know at least one or two guys from each of the wires in my area (they are all small offices, less than 10-15 FA's in each one).  What I gather from them (and observation) is that nearly all of the FA's are experienced (10+ years).  They all have pretty large books, and many of them built them through inheritance (of departing FA's).  Very few are doing ANYTHING to grow their books other than traditional referrals and some client marketing (cleint events, dinners, etc.).

I had a guy from MSSB come to my office recently that was interested in leaving MSSB.  He had like $130mm, and in his words, he only cared about maybe $65mm of it.  He said the rest was just "picked up" over the years through failed FA's, FA's leaving for other firms, etc.  He also said he's seen at LEAST 15 new FA's come and go in the past 3 years that have simply failed out.  And this is in a legacy MS office with 6 advisors.

May 4, 2010 7:31 pm

[quote=BondGuy]

I'm at what might be called a super regional, but it's wire-like enough to qualify as one. I can speak only for my office, referrals and cold calling.

[/quote]

Super Regional?? I kept thinking you were Martin Shafiroff...

So are the new guys who are calling... getting anywhere?

May 5, 2010 12:26 pm

One of the new guys, LOS 1 year, is doing really well. Very consistant, in early, always on the phone etc. He's doing very well. Two others, not as well, but enough not to get the boot.

I work in a unique office where vets actually cold call. We all open accounts from cold calling. Though, because we all have large books to run we can't dedicate time to the effort that a rookie can. It's a very transactional office with a lot of fixed income types. One of the reasons I chose to work there. Lot's of idea flow between reps.

May 5, 2010 1:31 pm

I hear everything you guys are saying about the need for cold calling and working outside of your family/friends and you have convinced me to agree, but here is where I am confused. 

I recently went on the first interview at MSSB. I have no experience doing this.After submitting my business plan, they want me back for the second interview.

The "500 day war" and all the comments in this discussion are pushing cold calling and avoiding doing business with family and friends at first. 

They on the other hand are pushing contacting family/friends and working only within your network and avoiding cold calling.  Seems the biggest qualification for being hired is having a network of high net worth family/friends.

Are they different than the places you guys work?  once/if I join, will I be spending the majority of my time cold calling?  Not that I mind it, If I'm able to, I'd like to follow the "500 day war" philosophy, or if they prefer, I can reach out to friends and family, regardless of what it is, i want to do the work, but I just want to be able to go in with my eyes open and know what to expect and don't feel that this would be an appropriate question to ask on the interview.

Thanks

May 5, 2010 1:45 pm

MSSB, Merrill, and the rest of the clueless brigade don't have to put themselves in their own program. Family money and etc., may give you a pass on the 1st year - that is if your family is worth like 3 million bucks and willing to give the whole enchilada to you. 

Ever since the terminology changed from broker to "wealth advisor" these firms now have professional screen watchers - "Advisors" who look busy, but do squat. 

You are better off at a smaller shop where they have to call to  survive. You will learn the skills there to prosper IMHO.

May 5, 2010 2:14 pm

Hello Judge,

Nice work, This post has Good Information. Keep it up

Thank you

May 5, 2010 3:32 pm

Although a smaller shop is preferable, i dont see many of them taking on advisors with absolutely no experience, let alone giving them the first year or two financial support that the bigger firms give.  so the advice i've been given is to start big (take advantage of the support, training, etc) and then go small or on your own after you have a decent book. 

however if i'm making a strong living at the bigger firm, i dont see the motivation to move on? stuff i'll probably learn along the way, but any thoughts? Is it possible to join the bigger firm and rely on cold calling as your primary method and then tapping into family later when you're more established.  I mean obviously its possible but is that something that is discouraged or looked down on?

May 5, 2010 4:00 pm

[quote=BondGuy]

One of the new guys, LOS 1 year, is doing really well. Very consistant, in early, always on the phone etc. He's doing very well. Two others, not as well, but enough not to get the boot.

I work in a unique office where vets actually cold call. We all open accounts from cold calling. Though, because we all have large books to run we can't dedicate time to the effort that a rookie can. It's a very transactional office with a lot of fixed income types. One of the reasons I chose to work there. Lot's of idea flow between reps.

[/quote]

As a new guy who is not doing really well.. Can you give an example of his day and/or what he is doing? What is the difference between the guy that is making it and the 2 that aren't?

May 5, 2010 6:34 pm

[quote=smokey]

I hear everything you guys are saying about the need for cold calling and working outside of your family/friends and you have convinced me to agree, but here is where I am confused. 

I recently went on the first interview at MSSB. I have no experience doing this.After submitting my business plan, they want me back for the second interview.

The "500 day war" and all the comments in this discussion are pushing cold calling and avoiding doing business with family and friends at first. 

They on the other hand are pushing contacting family/friends and working only within your network and avoiding cold calling.  Seems the biggest qualification for being hired is having a network of high net worth family/friends.

Are they different than the places you guys work?  once/if I join, will I be spending the majority of my time cold calling?  Not that I mind it, If I'm able to, I'd like to follow the "500 day war" philosophy, or if they prefer, I can reach out to friends and family, regardless of what it is, i want to do the work, but I just want to be able to go in with my eyes open and know what to expect and don't feel that this would be an appropriate question to ask on the interview.

Thanks

 [/quote]

SMokey, I think we are looking at "family and friends" through two different lenses.  What YOU are thinking of (and how we are responding to you) is like the insurance guy that opens term policies for all his family, then starts working on his neighbors and former co-workers (or IRA rollovers, etc.).  Low-hanging fruit type of stuff.

What MSSB is talking about is the fact that they want a guy that is "connected" - not friends and neighbors, but former clients from his life in law or taxes, or folks at the marina or country club.  Do you see the difference?  They want folks that have a natural (read: wealthy) market. 

May 5, 2010 11:49 pm

[quote=B24]

[quote=smokey]

I hear everything you guys are saying about the need for cold calling and working outside of your family/friends and you have convinced me to agree, but here is where I am confused. 

I recently went on the first interview at MSSB. I have no experience doing this.After submitting my business plan, they want me back for the second interview.

The "500 day war" and all the comments in this discussion are pushing cold calling and avoiding doing business with family and friends at first. 

They on the other hand are pushing contacting family/friends and working only within your network and avoiding cold calling.  Seems the biggest qualification for being hired is having a network of high net worth family/friends.

Are they different than the places you guys work?  once/if I join, will I be spending the majority of my time cold calling?  Not that I mind it, If I'm able to, I'd like to follow the "500 day war" philosophy, or if they prefer, I can reach out to friends and family, regardless of what it is, i want to do the work, but I just want to be able to go in with my eyes open and know what to expect and don't feel that this would be an appropriate question to ask on the interview.

Thanks

 [/quote]

SMokey, I think we are looking at "family and friends" through two different lenses.  What YOU are thinking of (and how we are responding to you) is like the insurance guy that opens term policies for all his family, then starts working on his neighbors and former co-workers (or IRA rollovers, etc.).  Low-hanging fruit type of stuff.

What MSSB is talking about is the fact that they want a guy that is "connected" - not friends and neighbors, but former clients from his life in law or taxes, or folks at the marina or country club.  Do you see the difference?  They want folks that have a natural (read: wealthy) market. 

[/quote]

Exactly right. Add to that, the mgrs really are clueless on how to build a book. Years ago Wall Street settled on the fee model. Why? because it's a scalable business. Just keep adding assets and the business grows. No messy investments to worry about. How those assets are attained is the problem. Again, why? Because most of the managers at the wires have never had to produce. Their job is to mind the flock, that's it. Because they are clueless the recco relying on networks and affinity groups. Honestly, they don't know how to uncover assets, so what else are they going to say?

 The fee biz is also plug and play. That is, if you fail they just plug in another advisor to take over your accounts and mind the assets. They can do this because every advisor is doing exactly the same thing. There is nothing unique about your business to drive assets to the door or out the door. Plug and play. In fact your failure is part of the wire's business plan. Hire 500 rookies, 400 fail. However those 400 rookies raised between 7 and 15 million dollars each before washing out. All that money stays with the firm without any revenue interuption. Again because it's plug and play. Pretty cool huh? And you thought they were hiring you because they were impressed by the wonder of you? Only if you've got a rich network to fork over.

May 5, 2010 11:58 pm

[quote=horton]

[quote=BondGuy]

One of the new guys, LOS 1 year, is doing really well. Very consistant, in early, always on the phone etc. He's doing very well. Two others, not as well, but enough not to get the boot.

I work in a unique office where vets actually cold call. We all open accounts from cold calling. Though, because we all have large books to run we can't dedicate time to the effort that a rookie can. It's a very transactional office with a lot of fixed income types. One of the reasons I chose to work there. Lot's of idea flow between reps.

[/quote]

As a new guy who is not doing really well.. Can you give an example of his day and/or what he is doing? What is the difference between the guy that is making it and the 2 that aren't?

[/quote]

Horton, the answer is very simple: The successful guy makes more calls that the other two put together.

This is a contact business. There is no magic formula. Pick up the phone and call someone and keep doing it until the sun goes down. And then do it some more. Ask people to do something. Buy something, look at something, consider something, talk to you in person or over the phone. Every call is a prospecting call or a call to move the prospect closer to a decision. Once you have clients, client calls get thrown into the mix. That's it! That's all this is,talking to people and asking them to take action,  nothing more. The more people you talk to the more money you are going to make and the faster you will make it.

May 6, 2010 12:09 am

BondGuy,

Give us a number in terms of the calls the successful rookie makes.  I generally make more calls than anyone in my office (rookies or experiened FAs).  I am a rookie so what else am I going to do all day other than call, mail, go on the resulting appointments and try to close 'em?!  A bad day for me is 200 dials.  A good day is 300 dials.  However, some days, my contact ratio absolutely sucks (at least I think it does).  For example, today it was 1 contact for every 10 dials...and those were for business owners.  In your experience, what have you seen in terms of the appropriate amount of dials, dials per contact, daily contacts, etc.  Thanks in advance.

May 6, 2010 12:25 pm

[quote=BondGuy]

[quote=horton]

[quote=BondGuy]

One of the new guys, LOS 1 year, is doing really well. Very consistant, in early, always on the phone etc. He's doing very well. Two others, not as well, but enough not to get the boot.

I work in a unique office where vets actually cold call. We all open accounts from cold calling. Though, because we all have large books to run we can't dedicate time to the effort that a rookie can. It's a very transactional office with a lot of fixed income types. One of the reasons I chose to work there. Lot's of idea flow between reps.

[/quote]

As a new guy who is not doing really well.. Can you give an example of his day and/or what he is doing? What is the difference between the guy that is making it and the 2 that aren't?

[/quote]

Horton, the answer is very simple: The successful guy makes more calls that the other two put together.

This is a contact business. There is no magic formula. Pick up the phone and call someone and keep doing it until the sun goes down. And then do it some more. Ask people to do something. Buy something, look at something, consider something, talk to you in person or over the phone. Every call is a prospecting call or a call to move the prospect closer to a decision. Once you have clients, client calls get thrown into the mix. That's it! That's all this is,talking to people and asking them to take action,  nothing more. The more people you talk to the more money you are going to make and the faster you will make it.

[/quote] The answer seems simple and so does the objective "make as many contacts as possible"....Sometimes the "fear" just multiplies itself and making those contacts seem impossible(as does picking up the phone)

May 6, 2010 1:26 pm

[quote=BondGuy]

[quote=B24]

[quote=smokey]

I hear everything you guys are saying about the need for cold calling and working outside of your family/friends and you have convinced me to agree, but here is where I am confused. 

I recently went on the first interview at MSSB. I have no experience doing this.After submitting my business plan, they want me back for the second interview.

The "500 day war" and all the comments in this discussion are pushing cold calling and avoiding doing business with family and friends at first. 

They on the other hand are pushing contacting family/friends and working only within your network and avoiding cold calling.  Seems the biggest qualification for being hired is having a network of high net worth family/friends.

Are they different than the places you guys work?  once/if I join, will I be spending the majority of my time cold calling?  Not that I mind it, If I'm able to, I'd like to follow the "500 day war" philosophy, or if they prefer, I can reach out to friends and family, regardless of what it is, i want to do the work, but I just want to be able to go in with my eyes open and know what to expect and don't feel that this would be an appropriate question to ask on the interview.

Thanks

 [/quote]

SMokey, I think we are looking at "family and friends" through two different lenses.  What YOU are thinking of (and how we are responding to you) is like the insurance guy that opens term policies for all his family, then starts working on his neighbors and former co-workers (or IRA rollovers, etc.).  Low-hanging fruit type of stuff.

What MSSB is talking about is the fact that they want a guy that is "connected" - not friends and neighbors, but former clients from his life in law or taxes, or folks at the marina or country club.  Do you see the difference?  They want folks that have a natural (read: wealthy) market. 

[/quote]

Exactly right. Add to that, the mgrs really are clueless on how to build a book. Years ago Wall Street settled on the fee model. Why? because it's a scalable business. Just keep adding assets and the business grows. No messy investments to worry about. How those assets are attained is the problem. Again, why? Because most of the managers at the wires have never had to produce. Their job is to mind the flock, that's it. Because they are clueless the recco relying on networks and affinity groups. Honestly, they don't know how to uncover assets, so what else are they going to say?

 The fee biz is also plug and play. That is, if you fail they just plug in another advisor to take over your accounts and mind the assets. They can do this because every advisor is doing exactly the same thing. There is nothing unique about your business to drive assets to the door or out the door. Plug and play. In fact your failure is part of the wire's business plan. Hire 500 rookies, 400 fail. However those 400 rookies raised between 7 and 15 million dollars each before washing out. All that money stays with the firm without any revenue interuption. Again because it's plug and play. Pretty cool huh? And you thought they were hiring you because they were impressed by the wonder of you? Only if you've got a rich network to fork over.

[/quote]

Well like I said they are pretty blunt about what they are looking for, people with a rich network. which is why the "500 day plan" thing confused me where it said to not do business with people in your own network.  I guess each place has its own best strategy to follow and the point is to use any resources you have. 

I haven't ever come across a position, whether front or back office that wasn't "plug and play".  Either you produce or you get out and get replaced with someone who will.  I'm pretty sure this applies to almost any position in any company in any industry, I guess except for the government where you can not produce and live like a king.

May 6, 2010 3:00 pm

Where you are getting the MSSB avoiding/denouncing the cold calling piece is a mystery to me.  In fact, when you go to Warren, NJ (should you take the job) for training with MSSB, you will be cold calling on your first day at a table with 6 or 7 other people.  You will witness one of the instructors perform a cold call as well.  You will also do training on cold calling as well as how to conduct seminars, discovery meetings, etc. before you even get a chance to go to Warren and there will be an assessment on your cold calling ability before that you must pass before they invite you to go to Warren for that first week of training.  So believe it, cold calling is very much a part of MSSB.  The problem is that most people aren't going to do it consistently even though they do get training because they think they can rely on rich friends alone.  My office tracks, connects, time per call, appts set, appts conducted, and so on and reports it to the entire branch every week.  Really, there isn't anywhere to hide.  Activity is rewarded. 

While it is possible that networking alone will get you over the hurdle, it is probably more of an exception than the rule.  I understand that each office is different, but prospecting on the phone definitely isn't frowned upon at MSSB.  Just my two cents. 

May 6, 2010 3:27 pm

[quote=TenToesDown]

Where you are getting the MSSB avoiding/denouncing the cold calling piece is a mystery to me.  In fact, when you go to Warren, NJ (should you take the job) for training with MSSB, you will be cold calling on your first day at a table with 6 or 7 other people.  You will witness one of the instructors perform a cold call as well.  You will also do training on cold calling as well as how to conduct seminars, discovery meetings, etc. before you even get a chance to go to Warren and there will be an assessment on your cold calling ability before that you must pass before they invite you to go to Warren for that first week of training.  So believe it, cold calling is very much a part of MSSB.  The problem is that most people aren't going to do it consistently even though they do get training because they think they can rely on rich friends alone.  My office tracks, connects, time per call, appts set, appts conducted, and so on and reports it to the entire branch every week.  Really, there isn't anywhere to hide.  Activity is rewarded. 

While it is possible that networking alone will get you over the hurdle, it is probably more of an exception than the rule.  I understand that each office is different, but prospecting on the phone definitely isn't frowned upon at MSSB.  Just my two cents. 

[/quote]

I never said they are avoiding/denouncing cold calling. It was my original question, as in "do they avoid/denounce cold calling?" and I asked it because the recruiter really pushed the network more than anything and cold calling was never mentioned.  I'm actually happy to hear its a big part of the process. Thank you.

May 6, 2010 3:57 pm

[quote=smokey]

[quote=TenToesDown]

Where you are getting the MSSB avoiding/denouncing the cold calling piece is a mystery to me.  In fact, when you go to Warren, NJ (should you take the job) for training with MSSB, you will be cold calling on your first day at a table with 6 or 7 other people.  You will witness one of the instructors perform a cold call as well.  You will also do training on cold calling as well as how to conduct seminars, discovery meetings, etc. before you even get a chance to go to Warren and there will be an assessment on your cold calling ability before that you must pass before they invite you to go to Warren for that first week of training.  So believe it, cold calling is very much a part of MSSB.  The problem is that most people aren't going to do it consistently even though they do get training because they think they can rely on rich friends alone.  My office tracks, connects, time per call, appts set, appts conducted, and so on and reports it to the entire branch every week.  Really, there isn't anywhere to hide.  Activity is rewarded. 

While it is possible that networking alone will get you over the hurdle, it is probably more of an exception than the rule.  I understand that each office is different, but prospecting on the phone definitely isn't frowned upon at MSSB.  Just my two cents. 

[/quote]

I never said they are avoiding/denouncing cold calling. It was my original question, as in "do they avoid/denounce cold calling?" and I asked it because the recruiter really pushed the network more than anything and cold calling was never mentioned.  I'm actually happy to hear its a big part of the process. Thank you.

[/quote]

Sorry Smokey.  I reread my post to you and it sounded pretty rude.  Didn't mean to sound so rude so please accept my apology.  BTW, at the end of the day, they really don't care how you bring in the money, they just want to make sure you actually do bring in the money.  Given the economy,  MSSB and all other firms can be a bit more selective when making hiring decisions, so the thinking is to get a good mix of folks fresh out of school to pound the pavement, but to also get experienced individuals that already have an established network.  It is always easier to work your network than it is to convince a stranger to be your client so that feeds into things a bit.  So again, the choice remains with the individual based on what they bring to the table, but cold calling can still be a deadly weapon.

Again, sorry if I sounded like an "arse" in my original post.  Cheers!   

May 6, 2010 4:18 pm

[quote=TenToesDown]

[quote=smokey]

[quote=TenToesDown]

Where you are getting the MSSB avoiding/denouncing the cold calling piece is a mystery to me.  In fact, when you go to Warren, NJ (should you take the job) for training with MSSB, you will be cold calling on your first day at a table with 6 or 7 other people.  You will witness one of the instructors perform a cold call as well.  You will also do training on cold calling as well as how to conduct seminars, discovery meetings, etc. before you even get a chance to go to Warren and there will be an assessment on your cold calling ability before that you must pass before they invite you to go to Warren for that first week of training.  So believe it, cold calling is very much a part of MSSB.  The problem is that most people aren't going to do it consistently even though they do get training because they think they can rely on rich friends alone.  My office tracks, connects, time per call, appts set, appts conducted, and so on and reports it to the entire branch every week.  Really, there isn't anywhere to hide.  Activity is rewarded. 

While it is possible that networking alone will get you over the hurdle, it is probably more of an exception than the rule.  I understand that each office is different, but prospecting on the phone definitely isn't frowned upon at MSSB.  Just my two cents. 

[/quote]

I never said they are avoiding/denouncing cold calling. It was my original question, as in "do they avoid/denounce cold calling?" and I asked it because the recruiter really pushed the network more than anything and cold calling was never mentioned.  I'm actually happy to hear its a big part of the process. Thank you.

[/quote]

Sorry Smokey.  I reread my post to you and it sounded pretty rude.  Didn't mean to sound so rude so please accept my apology.  BTW, at the end of the day, they really don't care how you bring in the money, they just want to make sure you actually do bring in the money.  Given the economy,  MSSB and all other firms can be a bit more selective when making hiring decisions, so the thinking is to get a good mix of folks fresh out of school to pound the pavement, but to also get experienced individuals that already have an established network.  It is always easier to work your network than it is to convince a stranger to be your client so that feeds into things a bit.  So again, the choice remains with the individual based on what they bring to the table, but cold calling can still be a deadly weapon.

Again, sorry if I sounded like an "arse" in my original post.  Cheers!   

[/quote]

no offense or rudeness taken.  i never judge tone based on written words. your post was actually very helpful to me and answered my original question. 

May 6, 2010 4:59 pm

[/quote] The answer seems simple and so does the objective "make as many contacts as possible"....Sometimes the "fear" just multiplies itself and making those contacts seem impossible(as does picking up the phone)

[/quote]

Horton, fear will put you on the unemployment line. Pick up the phone and do it.

This is the way i figure it; if I don't make the call I won't make the sale. If i do make the call and get blown off the phone I won't make the sale. So, in making the call I have nothing to lose. OTOH, if in making the call i gain a prospect i have much to gain.

Same goes with investment reccos. Worst the client or prospect can do is say no. That's exactly the same result I would get for not making the call or not closing. So, what's my downside? There is no downside.

All gain with no downside?

With those odds why not make the calls?

May 6, 2010 5:09 pm

[quote=TenToesDown]

BondGuy,

Give us a number in terms of the calls the successful rookie makes.  I generally make more calls than anyone in my office (rookies or experiened FAs).  I am a rookie so what else am I going to do all day other than call, mail, go on the resulting appointments and try to close 'em?!  A bad day for me is 200 dials.  A good day is 300 dials.  However, some days, my contact ratio absolutely sucks (at least I think it does).  For example, today it was 1 contact for every 10 dials...and those were for business owners.  In your experience, what have you seen in terms of the appropriate amount of dials, dials per contact, daily contacts, etc.  Thanks in advance.

[/quote]

The short answer is I don't know how many calls he is making. Your 200 to 300 dials sounds like a formula for success. If you are consistantly getting low anything, contacts, closes, appointments etc time to change something. What doesn't get changed is the number of dials. That's every day forever or, for at least the next five years.

May 7, 2010 12:09 am

[/quote]

Well like I said they are pretty blunt about what they are looking for, people with a rich network. which is why the "500 day plan" thing confused me where it said to not do business with people in your own network.  I guess each place has its own best strategy to follow and the point is to use any resources you have. 

I haven't ever come across a position, whether front or back office that wasn't "plug and play".  Either you produce or you get out and get replaced with someone who will.  I'm pretty sure this applies to almost any position in any company in any industry, I guess except for the government where you can not produce and live like a king.

[/quote]

Strategy? That's funny! When they look at you they are looking at someone, who in their eyes, has less than a one in five chance of making it. So, for the roughly 100Gs that they are going to have to pay to train you and support you as you figure out this was a career mistake they want something in return. How about a wealthy network of family and friends that they can victimize with their tried and failed pie chart for a fee management? Your friends, family, and anyone else you are dumb enough to hand over to these guys will be paying them fees long after you've left to start your new career at Auto World Imports. That's the strategy. Maybe you bring in 2 or 3 million dollars or maybe you bring 10 or 15 million before you get pink slipped or pink slip yourself. That's 30k to 300k in fees every year until one by one your family and friends figure out they've been screwed. If that's what you want, well, go work for them.

Ok, maybe you think i'm being tough on you, well I am. You are being played by these guys. There are plenty of offices with good firms that are more interested in you than your network. Find one of those. As soon as they start asking networking questions politely get up extend your hand,thank them, and leave.

Your take on plug and play, not exactly.  This isn't about producing. It's about how that production is achieved. They want you to become part of the "Me-too" fee army of interchangable advisors that bring little if any value to the table. You are easily replaced because you are of little value to your clients. Verses someone like the guy who wrote the 500 Day War who, because of his unique skill set and vast knowledge, is irreplaceable to his clients. Which maybe explains why you are confused. Two very different competing philosophies. Your choice, both will make you money, one will make money for your clients. Personally, I'd go with the guy who built the big book from scratch.

May 7, 2010 3:47 am

[quote=BondGuy]

[/quote]

Well like I said they are pretty blunt about what they are looking for, people with a rich network. which is why the "500 day plan" thing confused me where it said to not do business with people in your own network.  I guess each place has its own best strategy to follow and the point is to use any resources you have. 

I haven't ever come across a position, whether front or back office that wasn't "plug and play".  Either you produce or you get out and get replaced with someone who will.  I'm pretty sure this applies to almost any position in any company in any industry, I guess except for the government where you can not produce and live like a king.

[/quote]

Strategy? That's funny! When they look at you they are looking at someone, who in their eyes, has less than a one in five chance of making it. So, for the roughly 100Gs that they are going to have to pay to train you and support you as you figure out this was a career mistake they want something in return. How about a wealthy network of family and friends that they can victimize with their tried and failed pie chart for a fee management? Your friends, family, and anyone else you are dumb enough to hand over to these guys will be paying them fees long after you've left to start your new career at Auto World Imports. That's the strategy. Maybe you bring in 2 or 3 million dollars or maybe you bring 10 or 15 million before you get pink slipped or pink slip yourself. That's 30k to 300k in fees every year until one by one your family and friends figure out they've been screwed. If that's what you want, well, go work for them.

Ok, maybe you think i'm being tough on you, well I am. You are being played by these guys. There are plenty of offices with good firms that are more interested in you than your network. Find one of those. As soon as they start asking networking questions politely get up extend your hand,thank them, and leave.

Your take on plug and play, not exactly.  This isn't about producing. It's about how that production is achieved. They want you to become part of the "Me-too" fee army of interchangable advisors that bring little if any value to the table. You are easily replaced because you are of little value to your clients. Verses someone like the guy who wrote the 500 Day War who, because of his unique skill set and vast knowledge, is irreplaceable to his clients. Which maybe explains why you are confused. Two very different competing philosophies. Your choice, both will make you money, one will make money for your clients. Personally, I'd go with the guy who built the big book from scratch.

[/quote]

All possibly and probably true except one tihing. The  "plenty of offices with good firms that are more interested in you than your network" are not hiring inexperienced people, and definetly not hiring them with some kind of compensation plan that allows them to have some kind of salary/loan until they build their book.  I've tried.  Are you hiring?  Sad but true.  Since we all have to start somewhere the choice is limited. The choice comes into play a few years later if you are happy with the place you are in or not.  At that point, do you have the choice of bringing your book elsewhere or do you have to leave it behind? Thats a real question and since i'm new i dont know the answer.

do you know more about the guy who wrote the "500 day war" other than the article itself? because to me that isnt a unique skill set or vast knowledge, its good advice that anybody with a brain and some discipline can follow or duplicate. but maybe you know him better to know that he is irreplaceable because to me making a ton of phone calls during the day and closing deals over the phone isn't irreplaceable to the client, maybe to the firm. 

Be tough on me all you want, i'll be the first to tell you that I'm new to this, will appreciate all information,  and my only knowledge of it is what I am told or find online.

Jan 4, 2011 9:09 pm

bump...i keep coming back to this and have been seeing posts from  a lot of newer newbies than me that could use it.

Jan 7, 2011 8:43 pm

Been in the business a long time and I don't think I've read more useful information for rookies, or even veterans for that matter. This should be a cut-and-paste job, a thread that should be absolute must reading for all trainees and newer FA's. 

Spent 25 years at PaineWebber (UBS).  They put a rookie training branch within my branch office about 12 years ago.  As sure as I'm sitting here, I saw 300 to 400 rookies come through the system over a 5 to 6 year period.  Class after class would wash out - they were taught very little of this.  Having spent my first year in the business at First Jersey Securities, I knew what it took to make it and could see these people were kidding themselves.

After they closed down this 'experiment' we came to realize that exactly 3 people had made it.  One became a junior...was saved by a million-dollar producer ,one survived long enough to get a little deal at Merrill and one made it and stuck.

Back then I would try to suggest to these people that they literally had to drop out of society for two years - you know, "live like no one else will for two years and you can then live like no one else can for the rest of your life." Went in one ear and out the other - they were more interested in what was for lunch every day.

Hats off to the judge and bond guy.  Listen to every word (and the those of Bill Good) they say.

Reading this stuff is 'effing inspirational.

 JJM

Feb 15, 2011 10:02 pm

First and foremost i would like to thank everyone who has contribued priceless advice to this thread, i found the thread while googling for information on advice for FA's

Im 22 yrs old and in my last year of college my major is Human Resources however i have a passion for finance and investing and plan to become a FA i have a few questions

What are the absolute bare minimums i need to get started including the necessary liscenes etc

So far i have

A Series 65 Liscene,
A Phone,
An extensive list to cold call,
A few good suits,
an unstoppable desire to succeed,

am i missing any thing?

Ive had numerous bill collector jobs so cold calling is not a problem at all to me..250-300 calls a day is nothing so that it s the least of my concerns

I am more concerend about the technical paper work end, the proper forms to open accounts etc

Now i know some of you may suggest i work for a wire house first then start on my own, that is not what i want to do. I want to start solo and build a book from scratch, my personal friend/family network is no where near wealthy so i actually like the challenge of building a book from scratch

I can follow the 500 day war no problem

i just need more info on the technical side of the business

Apr 5, 2011 4:37 pm

BUMP

Read it, learn it, and learn it well

Apr 19, 2011 9:42 pm

Rather than start a new post, I'd love to find out best ideas for "high quality" lists.  Salesgenie? Prestige? Create your own?


After using ReferenceUSA for business/business owner lists and a mail/call/mail system, I am getting too many returned mailers with wrong/misspelled names, outdated addresses etc.  Is mail/call/mail too inefficient?

Has anyone found a good "occupational niche" like Dentists, Doc's, attorneys etc, that has worked particularly well?  Or is it best to stay more broad in scope (business owners)?

May 10, 2011 8:40 pm

[quote=Stockguy2011]

Rather than start a new post, I'd love to find out best ideas for "high quality" lists.  Salesgenie? Prestige? Create your own?


After using ReferenceUSA for business/business owner lists and a mail/call/mail system, I am getting too many returned mailers with wrong/misspelled names, outdated addresses etc.  Is mail/call/mail too inefficient?

Has anyone found a good "occupational niche" like Dentists, Doc's, attorneys etc, that has worked particularly well?  Or is it best to stay more broad in scope (business owners)?

[/quote]

Make your own list.

Bad names is a list problem. Get your money back. Too expensive to mail to wrong name/addresses

Mail/call/mail is not too ineffecient. However, update to incorporate email.

Occupational niches can work well. Realize it's a well worn path. Do something to seperate yourself from the crowd. And do it in the first 10 seconds of the call.

That said, I'm a broad scope guy. Anyone with money is a potential prospect.

Jul 29, 2011 2:44 am

Great thread. Thanks to all who have contributed. I can tell you in my own business experience, (not FA yet), the real people you want out there, will respect the guy who puts it out there to hang with a cold call. My best experiences in life have come form cold calling people in my former businesses, and pitching them with zeal. :) The self made guy, non lawyer or doctor who will hide under neath their diplomas, had to let it all hang out for himself at one point. Dial with pride.

There is alot more to be read in between the lines in the 500 day plan.

Oct 27, 2011 7:16 pm

Judge:

Are you implying that we should open wrapp fee accounts with a 1% fee? Or do you lead with some sort of product first?

Nov 17, 2011 10:41 pm

Hi all,

I'm starting with a wirehouse on the 28th of November and I do not have a background in sales. I am going to be completing my MS in Accounting and my CPA in 2012. I'm a level III CFA candidate as well. I was hoping to use accountants as my niche. My current plan is to cold call like crazy until I have my CPA and then start using that network to expand my book of business. Anyone have any experience with something like this?

May 22, 2012 2:58 pm

[quote=BondGuy]

[/quote] The answer seems simple and so does the objective "make as many contacts as possible"....Sometimes the "fear" just multiplies itself and making those contacts seem impossible(as does picking up the phone)

[/quote]

Horton, fear will put you on the unemployment line. Pick up the phone and do it.

This is the way i figure it; if I don't make the call I won't make the sale. If i do make the call and get blown off the phone I won't make the sale. So, in making the call I have nothing to lose. OTOH, if in making the call i gain a prospect i have much to gain.

Same goes with investment reccos. Worst the client or prospect can do is say no. That's exactly the same result I would get for not making the call or not closing. So, what's my downside? There is no downside.

All gain with no downside?

With those odds why not make the calls?

[/quote]

I was looking for something to help pump me up every morning/hour/crappy call.  I think I just found it.  Must have missed this before. 

Sep 26, 2013 8:06 pm

Just wanted to bump this beauty into 2013.

Oct 9, 2013 2:28 pm

Awesome post. Timely advice. Heading into year 3 of the PMD program at ML in beginning 2013. Start everyday day with 100 cold call dials in the first 100 minutes. Will keep your business going and growing.

Oct 25, 2013 9:56 pm

Love the thread. Just started cold calling at a wire. Here are the 12 commandmends I put on my wall:

Attitude is greater than facts, past, education, money, circumstances, failures, successes, opinions, etc. It is a deal maker or breaker. Life is 10% what happens to me, and 90% how I react to it. Start Your Day Strong. Don’t crawl out of bed. Jump out with a mission! Religiously! Exercise Is the Natural Feel Good Drug. And I know the best of all!! Read, watch and listen encouragement stuff. Talk about positives only, run from negatives. Always use “great,” “fantastic,” or “amazing.” Hang Out With Positive People Help others. Kill Negative Thoughts in embrio Live With Gratitude. Recognize the good in life. Recharge Your Batteries. Live like no one else will for two years, and you can then live like no one else can for the rest of your life." DO YOU LIKE THE CHALLENGE?? WINNERS NEVER QUIT, QUITTERS NEVER WIN!
Keep up the fight tigers!!
Nov 3, 2013 3:43 am
TheMachine:

Awesome post. Timely advice. Heading into year 3 of the PMD program at ML in beginning 2013. Start everyday day with 100 cold call dials in the first 100 minutes. Will keep your business going and growing.

Some questions for you:

What are you cold calling for? Product or service?

When you get a live one what is your follow up strategy?

What is your conversion ratio of those who are initially interested to new account?

Thanks.

Apr 15, 2014 11:20 pm

How do you get 250 business owners to call a day? Do you purchase leads? You mentioned corporate directories, are you calling these people while they are working?

I want to churn out a ton of calls, but curious how to get past gatekeepers, etc.

Jul 2, 2014 3:39 am

Get a subscription to infofree.com. It will run you about $300 p/y and you can get plenty of lists. Look for a discount code online to get it down to the $300 price.

Aug 11, 2014 4:42 pm

I plan on doing a lot of cold calling to get my start as soon as Im licensed, but I don’t thinking leading with product will be as effective as introducing a value proposition. Value, cash flow, liquidity, risk management.

I will quickly find out which method works for me, but anytime someone on the phone leads with investments, the phone will hang up. Trust must be established first before someone will hand over their hard earned money.

Sep 30, 2014 8:56 pm

Great thread, I’m with Bond Guy, contacts…talking to people and doing it on a regular basis…it all comes together.
Stillview

Jul 28, 2017 10:31 pm

Bringing this into 2017. It seems like this website has died (maybe because of fishbowl). I'm not sure if its because all the great posters have retired/burned out. This was fun to read regardless.

Oct 4, 2017 8:31 pm

Have yo ever heard of Virtual Retirement Solutions? My company sets up meetings with sponsor companies that are interested in having a new advisor review their 401k plan. I have over 400 advisors working with us on a contractual basis nationally and they go on the appointments set through us based upon asset ranges they prefer and regions that they are willing to service. We also have the same program for Group Health.