Physical Confrontation
This is kind of a follow up from Moraen’s topic on politeness but a step further.
Is there ever a time when words from some punks would result in a physical confrontation? Example, you're walking with your family and some punks say some dumb crap in passing. This happened over the weekend as I was with my family and extended family and some young punks (about 7 of them) walked by and said some stupid stuff. To be honest, I couldn't really make out what they were saying but a relative of mine ( a self proclaimed tough guy) wanted to teach them a lesson and start a fight. Situation: we were in Jamaica, Queens. If anyone is remotely familiar with NYC, you know Jamaica, Queens, in general, is not the best place. That said, it wasn't the worst area in the world but still pretty rough. Luckily, nothing happened and no one got hurt but it could have been a messy situation. I was really upset as I don't think any words, regardless of the content, would warrant me risking losing everything over some young punks who have nothing to lose. My relative is of a different mindset, mostly macho crap. Any thoughts?I think you just set a record for the use of the word "punks" in a RR forum post.
[quote=SometimesNowhere]
I think you just set a record for the use of the word "punks" in a RR forum post.
[/quote] I didn't even think of it, lol.I think it depends on the situation and where you are at. From your explanation and with numerous family members around I would have ignored it because the risk isn’t worth the reward. On the other hand, if you are jogging around your neighborhood and two punks yell “fag” or “windy” at you, then I think a physical confrontation would be a nice lesson.
I lived in Queens for a few years. IMHO, I think the setting is a bit different than if you ran into some “punks” at the Short Hills Mall in New Jersey. The former could cost you big in many, many ways. The latter, you could probably get away with a verbal smack-down and send them home in their parent’s Escalade.
If you have a career, and more importantly, family to consider, I would never, ever risk something very bad happening, unless of course your/your family's safety was at risk (i.e. they assaulted you or a family member). Sometimes being a man means knowing when to walk away. Being crippled, dead, or in jail/unemployed does nobody any good.I think it depends on the situation and where you are at. From your explanation and with numerous family members around I would have ignored it because the risk isn’t worth the reward. On the other hand, if you are jogging around your neighborhood and two punks yell “fag” or “windy” at you, then I think a physical confrontation would be a nice lesson.
I'll let you know when I stop peeing myself !!I think it depends on the situation and where you are at. From your explanation and with numerous family members around I would have ignored it because the risk isn’t worth the reward. On the other hand, if you are jogging around your neighborhood and two punks yell “fag” or “windy” at you, then I think a physical confrontation would be a nice lesson.
ClassicI think it depends on the situation and where you are at. From your explanation and with numerous family members around I would have ignored it because the risk isn’t worth the reward. On the other hand, if you are jogging around your neighborhood and two punks yell “fag” or “windy” at you, then I think a physical confrontation would be a nice lesson.
Damn, that was funny … I have tears in my eyes. Ron, take the day off.
I would risk EVERYTHING for the safety and well-being of my family. Words are nothing. Empty phrases that can be ignored. They affect nothing. If threats are made and they seem likely to happen, by all means, get physical.
As an aside, tactically it makes sense to act first. Violence of action, with the intent to cause the most harm as swiftly as possible if it appears your family will be harmed.
By the way Ron, you get the post of the week and quite possibly the post of the month.
If you beat up a minor, you are screwed! Walk away and relish in the fact that those punks will some day be washing your BMW.
I have a CCW, and you and I both know that if you so much as show them your gun, you are seriously effed. On another note, I became much more self aware after getting into this career. In my younger years I was always the guy ready to jump into a physical confrontation over some "punks" saying something stupid. When I got rolling in the "real world" I finally figure out that its better to confront them verbally. Nine times out of 10 they get scared and either apologize or walk away. (it probably doesn't hurt that I'm 6'3'' and not exactly built like a flagpole.) HOWEVER, if something unblowoffable is said to my Wife, or the threat of a physical confrontation is brought on by the other person, than yes, it is ok to remind them what my fist tastes like.Concealed handgun.
Let me be clear . . . If my life is in danger or the lives of my family and close friends are in danger, I will not hesitate to defend myself at whatever cost. The question I had is there is no threat and words are just being thrown at you while an individual or group is walking away, is it worth is to escalate the situation no matter what is said? And the area you live in or grew up in play a huge factor in what should be done. There are certain parts of this country that people get killed all the time. For example, if anyone has been in Washington D.C., responding to a comment in South East DC is a recipe for disaster. I just don't see it being worth it especially with guns and weapons being so easily accessible.
God, I love Texas.
Walking away, if possible, is always the right answer. Answering will lead to confrontation. If they have a weaopn you are screwed. If you pull a weapon on them and they are unarmed you are screwed, regardless of how many of your teeth are on the sidewalk. It’s just the way it is.
Years ago i had a problem with of all people, a motorcycle gang. Not the Hells Angels or Warlocks. Just some half-assed local nitwits. I couldn't deal with these guys head on because I'd lose. So i made a phone call to a friend. This guy was ranking law enforcement official. Now, don't know exactly what happened, except that pleasantries were exchanged and that the messege that these guys should consider certain neighborhoods toxic to their continued ability to walk upright on the planet was successfully conveyed. Officially all I know is that within a few days of making the call I never saw these guys again. Diplomacy is always the right answer."You don't look so bad, here's another" .... Awesome!Bernard Goetz
"You don't look so bad, here's another" .... Awesome![/quote] LOL, that was an outstanding story. That was good for those bastards.[quote=mlgone]Bernard Goetz
"You don't look so bad, here's another" .... Awesome![/quote] LOL, that was an outstanding story. That was good for those bastards. [/quote] According the wikipedia page, all three of the guys that didn't end up paralyzed went on to commit more crimes later. One of them held the gun while one of his friends sodomized, raped, and impregnated some poor girl. Apparently Bernie should have had a bigger gun that day.[quote=SometimesNowhere][quote=mlgone]Bernard Goetz
[quote=army13A]This is kind of a follow up from Moraen’s topic on politeness but a step further.
Is there ever a time when words from some punks would result in a physical confrontation? Example, you're walking with your family and some punks say some dumb crap in passing. This happened over the weekend as I was with my family and extended family and some young punks (about 7 of them) walked by and said some stupid stuff. To be honest, I couldn't really make out what they were saying but a relative of mine ( a self proclaimed tough guy) wanted to teach them a lesson and start a fight. Situation: we were in Jamaica, Queens. If anyone is remotely familiar with NYC, you know Jamaica, Queens, in general, is not the best place. That said, it wasn't the worst area in the world but still pretty rough. Luckily, nothing happened and no one got hurt but it could have been a messy situation. I was really upset as I don't think any words, regardless of the content, would warrant me risking losing everything over some young punks who have nothing to lose. My relative is of a different mindset, mostly macho crap. Any thoughts? [/quote] Being a 13A is your problem. We 11Bs aren't phased by something so innocent!Damn - and he didn’t even put on of those emoticons on it army!
[quote=BioFreeze] [quote=BondGuy]Walking away, if possible, is always the right answer. Answering will lead to confrontation. If they have a weaopn you are screwed. If you pull a weapon on them and they are unarmed you are screwed, regardless of how many of your teeth are on the sidewalk. It’s just the way it is.
Years ago i had a problem with of all people, a motorcycle gang. Not the Hells Angels or Warlocks. Just some half-assed local nitwits. I couldn't deal with these guys head on because I'd lose. So i made a phone call to a friend. This guy was ranking law enforcement official. Now, don't know exactly what happened, except that pleasantries were exchanged and that the messege that these guys should consider certain neighborhoods toxic to their continued ability to walk upright on the planet was successfully conveyed. Officially all I know is that within a few days of making the call I never saw these guys again. Diplomacy is always the right answer. [/quote]If you're ever attacked in front of me, I'll keep my weapon holstered. I'll just tell your family that you didn't believe in self-defense.
[/quote] Bio, How many times have you had to unholster your weapon? I'm guessing never. Around here, where it illegal to carry a weapon let alone pull one, pointing a gun at anyone, with rare exception, is a one way ticket to a mandatory five year stint. But i do agree with you in that, in that once in a lifetime situation that few of us luckily will never face, having a weapon could come it handy. Let's move on to reading comprehension. Please edit my post as you see fit to show me where you got that i don't believe in self defense? Diplomacy, is self defense. But feel free to read it anyway you'd like.
[quote=mrjones99999][quote=army13A]This is kind of a follow up from Moraen’s topic on politeness but a step further.
Is there ever a time when words from some punks would result in a physical confrontation? Example, you're walking with your family and some punks say some dumb crap in passing. This happened over the weekend as I was with my family and extended family and some young punks (about 7 of them) walked by and said some stupid stuff. To be honest, I couldn't really make out what they were saying but a relative of mine ( a self proclaimed tough guy) wanted to teach them a lesson and start a fight. Situation: we were in Jamaica, Queens. If anyone is remotely familiar with NYC, you know Jamaica, Queens, in general, is not the best place. That said, it wasn't the worst area in the world but still pretty rough. Luckily, nothing happened and no one got hurt but it could have been a messy situation. I was really upset as I don't think any words, regardless of the content, would warrant me risking losing everything over some young punks who have nothing to lose. My relative is of a different mindset, mostly macho crap. Any thoughts? [/quote] Being a 13A is your problem. We 11Bs aren't phased by something so innocent![/quote] Who said I was phased? If you read my post, I said a relative of mine got upset, not me. Mr Jones, when did you get out of the service?[quote=BioFreeze]
I never have unholstered it and hope it stays that way. You are not screwed if you pull a weapon on an unarmed person. You only have to be in fear for your life or someone's life who is present.
[/quote] Well, you are screwed here. Bigtime! The only reason i can see for owning a gun is for the possible breakdown of civilian rule. I almost bought one after 9/11. Please show me where i said i don't believe in self defense.
[quote=mrjones99999][quote=army13A]This is kind of a follow up from Moraen’s topic on politeness but a step further.
Is there ever a time when words from some punks would result in a physical confrontation? Example, you're walking with your family and some punks say some dumb crap in passing. This happened over the weekend as I was with my family and extended family and some young punks (about 7 of them) walked by and said some stupid stuff. To be honest, I couldn't really make out what they were saying but a relative of mine ( a self proclaimed tough guy) wanted to teach them a lesson and start a fight. Situation: we were in Jamaica, Queens. If anyone is remotely familiar with NYC, you know Jamaica, Queens, in general, is not the best place. That said, it wasn't the worst area in the world but still pretty rough. Luckily, nothing happened and no one got hurt but it could have been a messy situation. I was really upset as I don't think any words, regardless of the content, would warrant me risking losing everything over some young punks who have nothing to lose. My relative is of a different mindset, mostly macho crap. Any thoughts? [/quote] Being a 13A is your problem. We 11Bs aren't phased by something so innocent![/quote] Just over 2 years ago, SIR! You?Recently got confronted by a 19-20 year-old punk kid because I stopped for someone in a crosswalk. He was aggressively tailgating me, flipping me off, and yelling all kinds of obscenities at me. I pulled into a C-Store (because I knew there were surveillance cameras there), got out and walked towards the guy’s car. He shoved me. I chicken-winged his right arm with my left, spun him around, and face-planted him into the asphalt with about 20 people looking on while still wearing my suit. I then put my knee into and neck and said, “From here, I can bash your f-ing head into this pavement all day long. I can kill you with my bare hands. Had enough?” He said he’d had enough. I let him up. He rushed me again. I kind of stood back, looked over at a lady watching all of this and said, “Ma’am, can you call an ambulance? Because this guy’s going to need one. And, make sure they have a ventilator on board.” The guy ran back to his car, and tore out of the parking lot. True story.
[quote=mrjones99999][quote=mrjones99999][quote=army13A]This is kind of a follow up from Moraen’s topic on politeness but a step further.
Is there ever a time when words from some punks would result in a physical confrontation? Example, you're walking with your family and some punks say some dumb crap in passing. This happened over the weekend as I was with my family and extended family and some young punks (about 7 of them) walked by and said some stupid stuff. To be honest, I couldn't really make out what they were saying but a relative of mine ( a self proclaimed tough guy) wanted to teach them a lesson and start a fight. Situation: we were in Jamaica, Queens. If anyone is remotely familiar with NYC, you know Jamaica, Queens, in general, is not the best place. That said, it wasn't the worst area in the world but still pretty rough. Luckily, nothing happened and no one got hurt but it could have been a messy situation. I was really upset as I don't think any words, regardless of the content, would warrant me risking losing everything over some young punks who have nothing to lose. My relative is of a different mindset, mostly macho crap. Any thoughts? [/quote] Being a 13A is your problem. We 11Bs aren't phased by something so innocent![/quote] Just over 2 years ago, SIR! You?[/quote] Hooah! I left active in late 2005. I tell you, I miss it everyday but the OPTEMPO was killing me. Constantly in the field or on a mission; had to hang it up because I wanted to settle down. If I was still single, I would have stayed in, no question.I have a CCW, and you and I both know that if you so much as show them your gun, you are seriously effed. On another note, I became much more self aware after getting into this career. In my younger years I was always the guy ready to jump into a physical confrontation over some "punks" saying something stupid. When I got rolling in the "real world" I finally figure out that its better to confront them verbally. Nine times out of 10 they get scared and either apologize or walk away. (it probably doesn't hurt that I'm 6'3'' and not exactly built like a flagpole.) HOWEVER, if something unblowoffable is said to my Wife, or the threat of a physical confrontation is brought on by the other person, than yes, it is ok to remind them what my fist tastes like.[/quote][quote=UNDERMINDED][quote=BioFreeze]Concealed handgun.
If my life is in imminent danger, I will aim my weapon at the threat and fire it until the threat is over. The only time it gets drawn is when my life is in danger.
Thugs in NYC know that normal people are unarmed and feel safe when they torment them. Not so much, here in Texas.
[/quote] Yep here in the state of XX many people are armed. Kind of makes a lot of people more polite. If you break into a house you have a real chance of being shot dead on the spot. The cops here will shoot a guy down in a heartbeat if necessary. I think they're awesome. I just bought a .22 with a suppressor on gunbroker. Now I can stitch without ear rings.
This past week, on a crowded street in NYC, two pedestrians bumped into each other. One a 20 year old high school drop out, the other, a military veteran with a light criminal record. They both squared off with each other getting ready for a fight...as they approached each other, the veteran plunged a knife into the dropout killing him. 48 hours later, the veteran took his own life believing he was acting in self defense...but obviously overcome with guilt. This sh*t happens every day in NYC. A wanna-be tough guy wants to talk sh*t to the next person who crosses his path. Sometimes he's drunk; sometimes he's high. Often he has a weapon; sometimes he's armed. When two of these people cross paths, bad things happen. No one with a healthy level of testosterone ever wants to walk away from a fight...but, when you have a wife, kids or goals in your life...it's what you have to do. Smartest thing you can do is have a plan in place before it happens to you...dumbest thing you can do is carry a gun.If my life is in imminent danger, I will aim my weapon at the threat and fire it until the threat is over. The only time it gets drawn is when my life is in danger.
Thugs in NYC know that normal people are unarmed and feel safe when they torment them. Not so much, here in Texas.
Let me be clear on something. Me: 6'3", 210#, used to participate in what they called "smokers" around where I grew up, former Army Ranger/Pathfinder, regularly work out at a gym--not show up, but actually work out. This guy: Maybe 5'10", sleeve tatt on one arm, maybe 160#, no discernable muscle definition anywhere on his body. My point is, it was light duty. Mostly, I wanted the guy to quit tailgating me, honking, and whatever else on a very busy stretch of state highway. I was very surprised when he wanted a physical confrontation. I guess he figured I was old and in a suit, and that he could intimidate me. He wasn't expecting to get face-planted into the asphalt in less than 10 seconds.
Liar.
Let me be clear on something. Me: 6'3", 210#, used to participate in what they called "smokers" around where I grew up, former Army Ranger/Pathfinder, regularly work out at a gym--not show up, but actually work out. This guy: Maybe 5'10", sleeve tatt on one arm, maybe 160#, no discernable muscle definition anywhere on his body. My point is, it was light duty. Mostly, I wanted the guy to quit tailgating me, honking, and whatever else on a very busy stretch of state highway. I was very surprised when he wanted a physical confrontation. I guess he figured I was old and in a suit, and that he could intimidate me. He wasn't expecting to get face-planted into the asphalt in less than 10 seconds. [/quote] You are lying...[quote=BioFreeze] Liar.
[quote=BioFreeze] Liar.
Let me be clear on something. Me: 6’3", 210#, used to participate in what they called “smokers” around where I grew up, former Army Ranger/Pathfinder, regularly work out at a gym–not show up, but actually work out. This guy: Maybe 5’10", sleeve tatt on one arm, maybe 160#, no discernable muscle definition anywhere on his body. My point is, it was light duty. Mostly, I wanted the guy to quit tailgating me, honking, and whatever else on a very busy stretch of state highway. I was very surprised when he wanted a physical confrontation. I guess he figured I was old and in a suit, and that he could intimidate me. He wasn’t expecting to get face-planted into the asphalt in less than 10 seconds. [/quote]
Why would a Ranger use a chicken-wing to put someone down? What was your class number? Did you graduate in the 80’s?
Also, seems odd that you were that aggressive about tailgating given your training.
I was not tailgating him; he was tailgating me. I guess he got angry because I stopped for two people in a marked crosswalk. There had been some discussion of installing a traffic signal at this particular crosswalk because people had not been stopping, and there had been some near misses. So, motorcycle patrol officers had been monitoring that section of road heavily in the days leading up to it. I stop for people in crosswalks anyway, but was particularly careful about this one. I guess this guy thought if I had maintained speed that we could have been through the crosswalk before the pedestrians entered. I chicken-winged him because the first thing I could grab was his right wrist with my left hand. Don't give class numbers or anything else that might compromise anonymity on a forum like this. Enlisted in the late 80's, went to OBC and Ranger school in the early 90's--nuff said. I've been in many confrontations in my life--so many that I lost count years ago. The reality is, most guys have never been hit in the face. And, most don't react very well when it happens. For the most part, if you land a good clean shot on somebody and it really doesn't back them off or deter them, you're either in a world of sh*t or in a damn good fight. 90% of the guys out there just fall to pieces when they get hit pretty good or see their own blood. However, like someone else said on this thread, you grow up and move past this stuff. I had not had anything like this happen in almost 11 years. I used to be the guy that if someone were looking for a problem, I'd do everything I could to help 'em find it. The last one of these deals I was involved in was at a bachelor party of a wedding in which I was the best man. So, this kind of took me by surprise. I couldn't believe such a goofy little twit wanted a broo-ha-ha with some guy who outweighed him by 50 lbs. I'm done with this thread. Has just gotten stupid.[
Why would a Ranger use a chicken-wing to put someone down? What was your class number? Did you graduate in the 80’s?
Also, seems odd that you were that aggressive about tailgating given your training.
One time, at band camp…
It got stupid when you bragged about being a badass.
A chicken wing is an unsupported move. Very little leverage. If you could grab his right wrist with your left hand, you could have immobilized him very easily with a wrist lock. Could have driven him to his knees and had enough pressure to break his arm if you wanted. Also give you leverage to do anything you want with him.
So you are at least 37 years of age and getting mad at someone for tailgating you? Enough to do violence? Odd. The only people who would understand your class number are people that went through Ranger school with you.
I never knew a single O who went to Ranger school to act like that. Sounds more like a recycled IOBC grad.
But I don’t know you, so I’ll go ahead and believe you. Early 90’s Ranger school would have taught you better though, IMO. Maybe your RI’s were slackers.
Moraen is the man.It got stupid when you bragged about being a badass.
A chicken wing is an unsupported move. Very little leverage. If you could grab his right wrist with your left hand, you could have immobilized him very easily with a wrist lock. Could have driven him to his knees and had enough pressure to break his arm if you wanted. Also give you leverage to do anything you want with him.
So you are at least 37 years of age and getting mad at someone for tailgating you? Enough to do violence? Odd. The only people who would understand your class number are people that went through Ranger school with you.
I never knew a single O who went to Ranger school to act like that. Sounds more like a recycled IOBC grad.
But I don’t know you, so I’ll go ahead and believe you. Early 90’s Ranger school would have taught you better though, IMO. Maybe your RI’s were slackers.
I get 70 miles to the gallon on this hog.
Surveillance footage of soothsayer taking care of a “punk” at the gym
[quote=BerkshireBull] Surveillance footage of soothsayer taking care of a “punk” at the gym
[/quote]
That was hilarious.
It looks like Kimbo Slice has chimed in.
This is the most interesting post for me because it is clear Morean knows what he is talking about. I do not have any military training, but I know self defense. Anyone who thinks they are strong (invincible) because they are tall or because they are strong or because they have a gun should come to NYC. You will be dead in a year. It's easy to feel the need for a shotgun for your drive from Waco to Dallas, and I can understand the sense of security (and power) you feel. But, there's no real danger when you are driving your truck. What would you do if you rode a NYC subway and you walk around the corner, someone grabs you and you feel the cold steel of a straight-edge razor on your neck (me, June 2000 - Queens, NY). Where's your gun? Is it loaded in your hand? Of course not...it's as worthless as tits on a bull. Guns are important...but when it comes to self defense, guns are for pussies! Proper self-defense training is the only thing that is going to save your ass in a real bad situation.[quote=Soothsayer] [quote=BioFreeze] Liar. [/quote] Let me be clear on something. Me: 6’3", 210#, used to participate in what they called “smokers” around where I grew up, former Army Ranger/Pathfinder, regularly work out at a gym–not show up, but actually work out. This guy: Maybe 5’10", sleeve tatt on one arm, maybe 160#, no discernable muscle definition anywhere on his body. My point is, it was light duty. Mostly, I wanted the guy to quit tailgating me, honking, and whatever else on a very busy stretch of state highway. I was very surprised when he wanted a physical confrontation. I guess he figured I was old and in a suit, and that he could intimidate me. He wasn’t expecting to get face-planted into the asphalt in less than 10 seconds. [/quote]
Why would a Ranger use a chicken-wing to put someone down? What was your class number? Did you graduate in the 80’s?
Also, seems odd that you were that aggressive about tailgating given your training.
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