Training costs Arbitration
Does anyone have experiance with going to arbitration on training costs, and if you do what was it, and what was the outcome?
Thank you
Christ man, didn’t you at least open one account while you were there?
skee,
Who pooped on your cornflakes? Let someone answer the man's question.
[quote=usacav]
Does anyone have experiance with going to arbitration on training costs, and if you do what was it, and what was the outcome?
Thank you
[/quote]
If you signed a contract agreeing to pay back training costs if you leave, pay them their damned money. Why should others shoulder YOUR burden? What's so great about you? GTFOOH with crap.
BH:
You've got to quit being so encouraging to other posters.
[quote=jokeriswild]
BH:
You’ve got to quit being so encouraging to other posters.
[/quote]But what makes BH wrong?
Whether or not the training is worth anything is a moot point when the
individual in question has signed a contract or agreement. I hate to find
myself in the position of defending these companies’ inflated estimates of
the worth of their training, but a deal, when all is said and done, is a deal.
For $50, he can borrow a uniform from a McDonald’s employee and show up
at the arbitration…just a suggestion.
Plenty of people sign agreements…doesn’t mean squat. My suggestion is to
have a great offense.
I just saw The Pursuit of Happyness. Only Wall Street can “hire” talented
people and not pay them.
[quote=jokeriswild]
BH:
You've got to quit being so encouraging to other posters.
[/quote]
No.
[quote=skeedaddy2]
Plenty of people sign agreements…doesn’t mean squat. My suggestion is to
have a great offense.
[/quote]
Now THERE’S a perfect example of the lack of honor so prevalent in the
business world, and in society at large.
Does giving your word and your personal honor mean nothing? The answer,
it would seem, is obvious.
Interpretation of the written word is the key to our legal system. Otherwise,
we wouldn’t need lawyers now would we?
You probably carry a short samurai sword on you ready to commit hari kari
to preserve your honor? Don’t make me laugh.
Let’s all yield and praise to the most honorable among men, Philo Kvetch.
Hari Kiri? NEVER!
Who would protect my clients from those whose word means nothing?
(If the shoe fits, wear it!)
Philo,
This is one of the instances where I have to disagree with you slightly.
This Jones Training contract, for most of those who sign it, is BS.
Why?
Because Jones enters into the contract with you from a position of trust, with a bunch of misinformation if not flat out lies. Verbal information given by Jones and their advisors leading up to the contract plays a strong hand in the reason many people sign on. This in my humble opinion should make the contract void.
[quote=gad12]
Philo,
This is one of the instances where I have to disagree with you slightly.
This Jones Training contract, for most of those who sign it, is BS.
Why?
Because Jones enters into the contract with you from a position of trust,
with a bunch of misinformation if not flat out lies. Verbal information given
by Jones and their advisors leading up to the contract plays a strong hand in
the reason many people sign on. This in my humble opinion should
make the contract void.
That may well be Gad, but it begs the eternal question: Can you prove it to
a court?
Souds like the firms are as reasonable as the law firms.
[quote=rrbdlawyer]
Guys:
You might want to re-read this article I wrote a while back http://registeredrep.com/mag/finance_free_training_cost/
As a former RR and as an industry lawyer for most of the last quarter of a century, let me just express a personal opinion on this issue. I have no problem whatsoever with an employer seeking repayment of all legitimate training expenses HOWEVER the touchstone here is that the expenses must be reasonable. It is simply absurd to believe that any BD is truly expending $75,000 plus to train a newbie. First off, most of those expenses are absurdly inflated. For example, a training booklet may be valued at $100 when it is nothing more than a copy made at five cents a page. Additionally, you may be told that some high-priced industry consultant was paid $500 an hour to conduct a class and you are being asked to repay that cost--except there were ten folks in the class and your basis, at most, should only be $50.
Similarly, there is the issue of whether there should be a fixed production point at which no payment is required---for example, once you produced $25,000 in gross commissions the repayment is waived. After all, doesn't every hire include some element of risk for both the employer and employee? Is it fair to simply shift all of that risk (monetarily) onto the employee because the job just didn't pan out? Sure, many folks simply get a better job and look to leave--but do any of you really think that the generic training is of such value as to constitute a significant detrment to the employer?
At the end of the day, let's get to the bottom dollar. They sue you for $75,000 but often take $5,000 in settlement. That says it all.
[/quote]
Philo, no, of course it would be near impossible to prove what was "said" in court. However, the point, and the one made above by rrbdlawyer shed a little light on the argument that those of us who try to get out of/and or reduce these costs are dishonorable cheats.
[quote=rrbdlawyer]
Guys:
You might want to re-read this article I wrote a while back
http://
registeredrep.com/mag/finance_free_training_cost/
As a former RR and as an industry lawyer for most of the last quarter of
a century, let me just express a personal opinion on this issue. I have no
problem whatsoever with an employer seeking repayment of all legitimate
training expenses HOWEVER the touchstone here is that the expenses
must be reasonable. It is simply absurd to believe that any BD is truly
expending $75,000 plus to train a newbie. First off, most of those
expenses are absurdly inflated. For example, a training booklet may be
valued at $100 when it is nothing more than a copy made at five cents a
page. Additionally, you may be told that some high-priced industry
consultant was paid $500 an hour to conduct a class and you are being
asked to repay that cost–except there were ten folks in the class and
your basis, at most, should only be $50.
Similarly, there is the issue of whether there should be a fixed
production point at which no payment is required—for example, once
you produced $25,000 in gross commissions the repayment is waived.
After all, doesn’t every hire include some element of risk for both the
employer and employee? Is it fair to simply shift all of that risk
(monetarily) onto the employee because the job just didn’t pan out? Sure,
many folks simply get a better job and look to leave–but do any of you
really think that the generic training is of such value as to constitute a
significant detrment to the employer?
At the end of the day, let’s get to the bottom dollar. They sue you for
$75,000 but often take $5,000 in settlement. That says it all.
QUOTE]
So rather than firms setting the value of the training, we should let
lawyers hash it out.
Oh yeah.
Much better.
No, just do the honorable thing and write them a check for $75,000 for
something that costs $5,000
[quote=skeedaddy2]No, just do the honorable thing and write them a check for $75,000 for
something that costs $5,000 [/quote]
You're forgetting their opportunity cost of being able to recover more than $75,000, had he not turned out to be a loser that couldn't hack it.
Skee, I find the $75,000 price tag as objectionable as you do. Further, from
what I’ve seen and been told of the Jones training, they’re the last firm that
should be charging top dollar for their training. Still, the time to negotiate is
before the signature is on the line that is dotted (with apologies to Alec
Baldwin).
B Hull,
Of all the poster's on this site, you sound like the biggest loser. If you're looking for a new job, forget about couseling, you probably wouldn't have success there either. Everything you write is trying to smack someone down. Does this make you feel like a big man? Are you even in the industry or do you just hang around this site because you have nothing better to do?, especially seeing that you have made almost 7 posts per day since you joined. Grow up and go away!!
[quote=FreeFromJones]
B Hull,
Of all the poster's on this site, you sound like the biggest loser. If you're looking for a new job, forget about couseling, you probably wouldn't have success there either. Everything you write is trying to smack someone down. Does this make you feel like a big man? Are you even in the industry or do you just hang around this site because you have nothing better to do?, especially seeing that you have made almost 7 posts per day since you joined. Grow up and go away!!
[/quote]
In that order? Thanks for the attention.
[quote=Bobby Hull][quote=usacav]
Does anyone have experiance with going to arbitration on training costs, and if you do what was it, and what was the outcome?
Thank you
[/quote]
If you signed a contract agreeing to pay back training costs if you leave, pay them their damned money. Why should others shoulder YOUR burden? What's so great about you? GTFOOH with crap.
[/quote]
Listen up you REMF I was killing Commis for Your Mommy while you where still sucking on her TIT, I didn't ask for your damned opinion on this.
If I had wanted to open this up to cuckold mealy mouthed asswipes I would have said so. G
O BACK to your mothers TIT and stay there a while, maybe it'll help you grow a brain cell or two......<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
[quote=usacav][quote=Bobby Hull][quote=usacav]
Does anyone have experiance with going to arbitration on training costs, and if you do what was it, and what was the outcome?
Thank you
[/quote]
If you signed a contract agreeing to pay back training costs if you leave, pay them their damned money. Why should others shoulder YOUR burden? What's so great about you? GTFOOH with crap.
[/quote]
Listen up you REMF I was killing Commis for Your Mommy while you where still sucking on her TIT, I didn't ask for your damned opinion on this.
If I had wanted to open this up to cuckold mealy mouthed asswipes I would have said so. G
O BACK to your mothers TIT and stay there a while, maybe it'll help you grow a brain cell or two......<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
[/quote]
You failed in this business and you failed in killing "commis." They're alive and well and they've invaded the house and senate. Now, go get a job so you can pay back your contractual obligation.
Whew! Now this is some good stuff!!!
[quote=usacav] [quote=Bobby Hull][quote=usacav]
Does anyone have experiance with going to arbitration on training
costs, and if you do what was it, and what was the outcome?
Thank you
[/quote]
If you signed a contract agreeing to pay back training costs if you
leave, pay them their damned money. Why should others shoulder YOUR
burden? What’s so great about you? GTFOOH with crap.
[/quote]
Listen up you REMF I was killing Commis for Your Mommy
while you where still sucking on her TIT, I didn’t ask for your damned
opinion on this.
If I had wanted to open this up to cuckold mealy mouthed
asswipes I would have said so. G
O BACK to your mothers TIT and stay there a while, maybe it’ll
help you grow a brain cell or two…<?:namespace prefix = o ns =
“urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office” /><o:p></o:p>
[/quote]
Wow! You must be one tough dude, knowin’ all about rear echelon folks
and all. Why, I’ll bet you’re the only former GI in this business! Certainly,
the only only one who’s been in-theater!
A word of advice, If I may: Lighten up, Francis.
The thing that amazes me about this forum is that when someone asks a question, the typical Peanut Hull response is that if you have to ask that question, you probably failed at the business and you’re a slime bucket. Philo, if you’re not a former GI then you can shut your pie-hole too!! If you are then you’re pretty much fall into the same category of helpfulness as Peanut Hull. This guy asked a simple question but you two who don’t have experience in this area just spew crap out of your keyboards and think that you’re oh so funny. Philo, you need to lighten up and I’ve already told Peanut Hull what he needs to do.
Free From Jones, I have forgotten more about both military service and this
business than you’ll ever know. If you don’t like the answers, don’t ask the
questions.
[quote=FreeFromJones]The thing that amazes me about this forum is that when someone asks a question, the typical Peanut Hull response is that if you have to ask that question, you probably failed at the business and you're a slime bucket. Philo, if you're not a former GI then you can shut your pie-hole too!! If you are then you're pretty much fall into the same category of helpfulness as Peanut Hull. This guy asked a simple question but you two who don't have experience in this area just spew crap out of your keyboards and think that you're oh so funny. Philo, you need to lighten up and I've already told Peanut Hull what he needs to do.[/quote]
Thanks for the kind words, Peanut Freefromjones.
That’s what I love about this place, one big happy family!! And Filly, it’s highly doubtful about your military service compared to mine. But, if you’re so forgetful, you proably shouldn’t be in this business.
[quote=FreeFromJones]That's what I love about this place, one big happy family!! And Filly, it's highly doubtful about your military service compared to mine. But, if you're so forgetful, you proably shouldn't be in this business.[/quote]
One thing I'll have to agree with you upon...your career was probably NOTHING compared to mine.
Starka,
Are you Philo's alter-ego? or just getting your 2 cents in?
Please do not presume to know anything about my military service or being "in theater" ….or for you Mr. Hull as to whether or not I was affective at killing commies based on the fact that they still exist... you'd be wrong on to many levels to even begin intelligent discussion here or for that matter anywhere..... <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
My anger stems from how quick you "mr. Hull" jump to conclusions and invoke vulgarity from a condescending "tone" on to anyone who isn't you. I have seen your type before and don't normally waste my breath; you must have caught me at a week moment.
I asked a simple question, looking for a civil response, since you can not provide one turn your obvious massive intellect elsewhere .. please...
As for others who can answer my question with the facts… I would welcome your input…
Respectfully,
Tired of pompous asses
[quote=FreeFromJones]
Starka,
Are you Philo's alter-ego? or just getting your 2 cents in?
[/quote]
Just my $.02.
This thread is already WAY over the top, and all this d*ck thumpin' is ridiculous. However, if the children wanna play "Can You Top This"....
[quote=usacav]
Please do not presume to know anything about my military service or being "in theater" ….or for you Mr. Hull as to whether or not I was affective at killing commies based on the fact that they still exist... you'd be wrong on to many levels to even begin intelligent discussion here or for that matter anywhere..... <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
My anger stems from how quick you "mr. Hull" jump to conclusions and invoke vulgarity from a condescending "tone" on to anyone who isn't you. I have seen your type before and don't normally waste my breath; you must have caught me at a week moment.
I asked a simple question, looking for a civil response, since you can not provide one turn your obvious massive intellect elsewhere .. please...
As for others who can answer my question with the facts… I would welcome your input…
Respectfully,
Tired of pompous asses
[/quote]
If our military were to fail like you failed in this business, we'd all be hitting the prayer mats five times per day.
I appreciate your military service. Someone had to wash the jeeps at Fort Hood and I'm glad the job was in your capable hands.
Bobby Hull, did you have any military service? Irregardless of what job he did, “any” military member puts their life on the line for their country. If you don’t have the balls to serve in the military, don’t criticize. Who are you to judge?
[quote=jokeriswild]Bobby Hull, did you have any military service? Irregardless of what job he did, "any" military member puts their life on the line for their country. If you don't have the balls to serve in the military, don't criticize. Who are you to judge?[/quote]
Who am I? I'm the guy that this loser is taking shots at. That's who. Personally, I didn't give a crap about his service until he brought it up. Now it's fair game.
[quote=Bobby Hull][quote=FreeFromJones]
B Hull,
Of all the poster's on this site, you sound like the biggest loser. If you're looking for a new job, forget about couseling, you probably wouldn't have success there either. Everything you write is trying to smack someone down. Does this make you feel like a big man? Are you even in the industry or do you just hang around this site because you have nothing better to do?, especially seeing that you have made almost 7 posts per day since you joined. Grow up and go away!!
[/quote]
In that order? Thanks for the attention.
[/quote]
Attention: Bobby apparently likes to beat and be beaten. We gotta be nice to Bobby to break the cycle of violence. Since it sticks around, maybe the character will notice our compassion.
yeah...ok, we'll be nice to your new stepdad.
he likes to be controversial and stir things up...that's his thang.
Hey, how do you quote more than one person in a post?
[quote=silouette][quote=Bobby Hull][quote=FreeFromJones]
B Hull,
Of all the poster's on this site, you sound like the biggest loser. If you're looking for a new job, forget about couseling, you probably wouldn't have success there either. Everything you write is trying to smack someone down. Does this make you feel like a big man? Are you even in the industry or do you just hang around this site because you have nothing better to do?, especially seeing that you have made almost 7 posts per day since you joined. Grow up and go away!!
[/quote]
In that order? Thanks for the attention.
[/quote]
Attention: Bobby apparently likes to beat and be beaten. We gotta be nice to Bobby to break the cycle of violence. Since it sticks around, maybe the character will notice our compassion.
[/quote]
You probably shouldn't be beating on me, since I am frequently attached to your mother. I'd hate to see such a generous, loving, passionate woman catch a stray punch.
[quote=Bobby Hull][quote=silouette][quote=Bobby Hull][quote=FreeFromJones]
B Hull,
Of all the poster's on this site, you sound like the biggest loser. If you're looking for a new job, forget about couseling, you probably wouldn't have success there either. Everything you write is trying to smack someone down. Does this make you feel like a big man? Are you even in the industry or do you just hang around this site because you have nothing better to do?, especially seeing that you have made almost 7 posts per day since you joined. Grow up and go away!!
[/quote]
In that order? Thanks for the attention.
[/quote]
Attention: Bobby apparently likes to beat and be beaten. We gotta be nice to Bobby to break the cycle of violence. Since it sticks around, maybe the character will notice our compassion.
[/quote]
You probably shouldn't be beating on me, since I am frequently attached to your mother. I'd hate to see such a generous, loving, passionate woman catch a stray punch.
[/quote]
oh I see, it's just quoting a prior quote of a quote. I just had an ahha moment.
I'm sure we all know Bh isn't a woman beater...he did say 'accidental' if she was in close range. She'd probably do a quick kick to his hanging, dangling participles as a knee jerk reaction, though.
Every time I try to be nice to dad, he beats up mom. I think that's why he is so mean here.
Booby Hull is another pansy that is simply enjoying the anonymity of the Internet. You can't catch me.....cuz' you don't know who I am and you can't find out either.....nanannybooboo. Freakin' idiot couldn't wipe his own ass in a combat zone.
Now, your question, usacav, it is my belief that Jones simply uses this $75,000 figure to scare the unknowing recruits into believing that they cannot leave inside of three years. Don't even THINK about leaving....we'll break your butt in arbitration. That's what they want to get across with the contract. Jones, in particular, typically settles for 10% of what they sue for. I've spoken to several that were taken to arbitration and this was the case each time when the judgement came down. The degree to which you are pursued may also depend on what you do when you leave.(i.e. calling clients, sending letters and transfer paperwork, etc.) Good luck with it.
It's amazing that a guy asks a question and all he gets is a bunch of smart-a$$ed, cynical, sarcastic responses. This site used to be a lot better than this. You fools should find something better to do with your time like play hide the sausage or something with your brother.
[quote=bailingonjones]
Booby Hull is another pansy that is simply enjoying the anonymity of the Internet. You can't catch me.....cuz' you don't know who I am and you can't find out either.....nanannybooboo. Freakin' idiot couldn't wipe his own ass in a combat zone.
Now, your question, usacav, it is my belief that Jones simply uses this $75,000 figure to scare the unknowing recruits into believing that they cannot leave inside of three years. Don't even THINK about leaving....we'll break your butt in arbitration. That's what they want to get across with the contract. Jones, in particular, typically settles for 10% of what they sue for. I've spoken to several that were taken to arbitration and this was the case each time when the judgement came down. The degree to which you are pursued may also depend on what you do when you leave.(i.e. calling clients, sending letters and transfer paperwork, etc.) Good luck with it.
It's amazing that a guy asks a question and all he gets is a bunch of smart-a$$ed, cynical, sarcastic responses. This site used to be a lot better than this. You fools should find something better to do with your time like play hide the sausage or something with your brother.
[/quote]
Thank you for your kind words.
[quote=bailingonjones] You fools should find something better to do with
your time like play hide the sausage or something with your brother.
That’s the funniest thing i’ve heard today…except for my post on Weekend
Jokes. Some folks have waaaaaay too much time to kill. Well done.
I left Jones about three years ago and immediately received the two registered letters demanding I not contact my clients and pay Jones a shade less than $20k. I was, to say the least, worried. I responded to the demand letter saying I wasn't going to pay the money.
I didn't hear anything from Jones for about 15 months and then I got a letter from the NASD saying I needed to make arrangements to attend an arbitration hearing. I found an attorney and spoke with the Jones attorney and we struck a settlement which both of us felt was fair.
Since leaving Jones, and going Independent, I am making a much better than industry average income. Yes, I work harder than I did as an "employee" but I'm much happier than ever.
The important thing to remember is to focus on building your business and don't let this distract you from success. This is a great business.
You are all morons and should leave the business.
I have been in the business for over 20 years with 4 BDs in the greater Los Angeles area. I have NEVER heard of another BD charging training costs if a salesperson (not "advisor"...EDJ does not charge fees for advice, it charges commissions for sales) leaves...until a friend showed me his agreement with EDJ. Also, this practice appears illegal in the State of California. I would report them to the California Department of Labor Standards Enforcement if they threaten you, or in advance of your resignation. If you're not in California, check with your state. The EDJ "employment contract" states that any provision that is in conflict with any laws is void.
Wake up and smell the coffee. If someone is recruiting you to work out of your home, knock on doors, pay for your own training, and have the audacity to hold yourself out as a financial advisor when you really don't have anyone supervising your activities on a daily basis while messing around with people's life savings, then you are too stupid, unethical and/or irresponsible to be in this business. Go and work for a multi-level marketing scam, or buy a get-rich-quick program that you saw on an infomercial selling "cash-flow notes". If you don't interview with at least 4 firms after researching at least 20 or more online, no one should trust you to research investment options for them.
That being said, I didn't ask all of the right questions when I started either. But if you feel that your firm is not treating you ethically, it is your duty to protect your clients (it's not about you) from your firm because (newsflash) this is a business built on trust and integrity! If they pull this nonsense on you, they will pull it on your clients (go to finra.org and read the brokercheck report on EDJ). You have to leave. So take your integrity pill and do the right thing.
The firm I am with pays new Advisors while training, provides them with some leads, pays for their CFP classes, and allows them (with very tight supervision and support) to sell financial planning services and treats the compensation the same as any product sale. While they have productivity requirements (they don't pay you to believe in the power of your dreams), they do not require them to be in any particular product or service, so you can be objective in your recommendations. And they don't send you a bill if it turns out not to be a fit. They share responsiblity for failures as well as successes. Not easy to get hired here, and this is not an advertisement so I won't say the name and will not respond to inquiries. If you do your research you will find them. If you have a clean U5 and have performed up to standard with your previous company, they will consider you.
Later, losers.
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