Bankers Life EIA's
Anybody have experience with these? I have a prospect that is considering an EIA from Bankers Life. I am trying to find out their terms, commissions, surrenders, etc. They don’t show anything on their website.
Any help would be great.Show him this:
http://www.waterskraus.com/index.aspx?id=elderabuse_annuityfraud Bankers is mentioned at the bottom. Also, tell him that Bankers Life had to pay $150k in fines in November for "underhanded business practices in the sale of equity-indexed annuities". Not sure where you are, but that was the state of OregonWhen will you people pull your heads out of your a#$%s. Posting some class action lawsuit about ripping off seniors with annuitys is rediculous based on the question asked. How long did it take you to search for that.? When we see most of our clients and take a look at the idiotic pie chart at the front of their statements from your favorite Bankster Broker I tell them to just just turn on the TV for negative info in regards to XYZ company they are dealing with. Yes, some agents inapproprialty put seniors into an wrong annuity product. But, I ask you did anyone of the seniors in the lawsuit lose 30%, 40% or even 50% of their money?? No!! I can’t stand the manipulation that the wirehouses, banks, brokers and media feed the public. “Put your money into a diversified portfolio of BLAH BLAH BLAH” Wake Up!! Protect your senior clients assets please!!
OK, so anyone have any details on EIA annuities at Bankers? Based on what this prospect is telling me, he doesn’t know all the details. I know his situation, and I am actually concerned he is getting himself into something he doesn’t realize the facts about.
According to Hank Moody, the worst thing you can do is try to slam the company or EIA's. If you talk him out of it and he loses money, you're screwed. You have a slam dunk sale right in front of you. Figure out a way for him to buy an EIA from you. Let him know that you're using the best selling EIA's and that they're the best selling for a reason. Congratulate him for making a smart choice to protect his money and that if he chooses the other guy, he's still made a smart choice.OK, so anyone have any details on EIA annuities at Bankers? Based on what this prospect is telling me, he doesn’t know all the details. I know his situation, and I am actually concerned he is getting himself into something he doesn’t realize the facts about.
I don’t believe B24 has access to EIA, and even if they did, the compliance department at Jones would shut him down.
I can tell you this much - they have a 10 year surrender.
And gypsy - Bankers has a whole lot of problems - not just that one. They been expelled from the Better Business Bureau in five states for unfair business practices and preying on seniors.
It is not the EIA that is killing them, it’s Bankers.
Equity Indexed Annuities is not investment management - which is what most people on this forum at least say they are doing.
Honestly, I don’t work with many seniors, but to be quite honest, I wouldn’t put them in an EIA EVER. You are allowing a company that at some point could make some really sh*tty decisions to hold “your seniors’ money”. That’s not protecting it, that’s exposing it to more risk.
So, you propose keeping their money in the stock market or loaning it to the government/bank in the way of a bond or CD? Seems to me that strategy is infinitely more risky than giving it to an insurance company. Fact is, there is no entity better established to manage risk than an insurance company. If you believe otherwise, you're more naive than your original post lets on. I'm not defending Bankers Life, fact is they're a poorly run organization. But there's no reason to not look at a solid insurance company's EIA lineup for a portion of a senior citizen's portfolio. For the record, I am not able to sell EIAs due to restrictions at my B/D. Spare me the "Why doesn't your B/D allow you to sell EIAs if they're so good?" line. I know why they don't allow it, and it has zero to do with the product itself. But if you're not showing them when appropriate, you're opening your book to be picked off by folks like Hank.I don’t believe B24 has access to EIA, and even if they did, the compliance department at Jones would shut him down.
I can tell you this much - they have a 10 year surrender.
And gypsy - Bankers has a whole lot of problems - not just that one. They been expelled from the Better Business Bureau in five states for unfair business practices and preying on seniors.
It is not the EIA that is killing them, it’s Bankers.
Equity Indexed Annuities is not investment management - which is what most people on this forum at least say they are doing.
Honestly, I don’t work with many seniors, but to be quite honest, I wouldn’t put them in an EIA EVER. You are allowing a company that at some point could make some really sh*tty decisions to hold “your seniors’ money”. That’s not protecting it, that’s exposing it to more risk.
Define “solid insurance company”.
Since I don’t sell EIAs I do not know who are the strongest players.
For life, LTCi, DI, and annuities, I'm partial to the big mutuals. When you can pay a 7%+ dividend in an environment like 2008, it's very rea**uring to me and my clients.Moraen, can we safely a**ume that you are not insurance licensed?
In fact, you cannot a**ume that. I am insurance licensed, but only rarely sell insurance. As for annuities, if you look at no-load, no surrender annuities with low M & E and some pretty good “Guarantees” (although I always point out that nothing, in fact, is really guaranteed), I steer some clients towards those.
I am DI, LTC, Life and Health.
ae=oIn fact, you cannot a**ume that. I am insurance licensed, but only rarely sell insurance. As for annuities, if you look at no-load, no surrender annuities with low M & E and some pretty good “Guarantees” (although I always point out that nothing, in fact, is really guaranteed), I steer some clients towards those.
I am DI, LTC, Life and Health.
hey admin - why do you take out the s’s in a**ume?
Moraen, I assumed that you weren't an insurance agent because you should have know that it's not ok to bash another insurance company to help you make a sale. I'm also going to assume that you aren't a very good salesperson since it is a terrible selling technique.
i don’t sell products - i sell my process. i do pretty well. i don’t think it’s bashing if the company is under fire for a lot of different things - it’s helping the client do their due diligence.
and you are right, i’m not a good product salesperson. never was. so i will withdraw from this - just trying to give B24 some ammo - i know about being at Jones, and if he can’t sell EIA’s, he’s got to show something better.
EIAs are tough to sell against.
The smart insurance guys are positioning their product not as something that will beat the market, but instead as an investment that protects principal first and provides the potential to beat fixed annuities or CDs. Most of the EIAs offer a "bonus" on your deposit (which, as we all know, will be recouped entirely by longer contracts), and since Jones doesn't offer bonus annuities, I haven't had much luck selling against them with our fixed annuities. Moreover, the prospects I'm seeing who've already spoken to the EIA guys are leery of VAs since there is a risk of losing principal. A principal protection strategy--using a fixed annuity that will grow back to the original principal amount over a set number of years and then putting the difference into the market--has at least allowed me to get in front of folks and show them another option to the EIA. And sure, they can "lose" the money that's in the market, but they are guaranteed to at least have their entire principal amount returned to them upon the maturity of the FA.Moraen, you last 2 posts have me confused. In your last one, you said that you only sell your process and not products. How much do you get for your process? In the post before that you said that you rarely sell insurance. How do you sell insurance without selling product? What no load, no surrender charge annuity have a good guarantee? If you are insurance licensed, why do you rarely sell it?
Anon - because I normally refer insurance business out. As for why I do that… I have my reasons. As for annuities, I only use no-load, no surrender annuities when clients insist on only working with me. My insurance licenses expire next month and I will not be renewing them (I know, I know, I’m giving up soooooooooooo much business). Even the annuities I don’t really “sell” b/c there is no commission. They are just offered. As for what no-load annuities have good guarantees… just as many as loaded annuities. I personally believe that no one should ever use the word guarantee… ever.
I get quite a bit for my process. It depends. I charge either a flat fee or hourly. Usually ends up better for the client. And pretty good for me too.
Sorry to confuse you, but I really don’t “Sell” anything.
And I hope we won’t get on that thread again. I’ve agreed to disagree about the whole, “commish v. fee-based v. fee only”.
Hey does anyone have lit on Banker’s Life EIA? I too have a client being pitched this stuff. I’m pretty familiar with EIAs in general, but not Banker’s specific. Anyone have the dirt?
Did you know that there are 90 life insurance companies that have admitted assets of $10,000,000,000 or more? Did you know that of these 90, Bankers has the worst financial ratings?
Anon, thank you. Didn’t even think of that, check out the Weiss ratings here:
http://www.weissratings.com/HL_Life.asp
Be careful with that link. You have to make sure that you are looking at the correct company. Bankers Life Insurance Company of America (Texas) that is rated E in that link is not the same company as Bankers Life (Illinois). I don’t know if they are affiliated or not, but my guess is “no.” Anyway, it wouldn’t be much more comforting to know that Weiss has them rated “D”. Unlike other rating services, Weiss ratings can be looked at like school grades. An “A” rating from Weiss is a great rating. An A rating from A.M. Best isn’t so hot.
S&P just downgraded Bankers Life.There is a very simple way to resolve this question. One must compare apples to apples, and with investments that means controling for the amount of variance (risk) in each one. There are many different ways to do this, from the Sharpe ratio to the M**2.
To calculate this risk adjusted returns for an EIA you basically have a distribution that is truncated on the left and the right sides of the tails. The bottom is typically set at something like 3% (minus the fees) and the top is usually something like .85(index ceiling). The index ceiling is typically around 10%. All you need to do ius write a simple algothrym calculating what the EIA's truncated yeild is (over some time period) adjusted for its truncated variance, and now you can compare apples with apples. L:et me put this in option terminology. An EIA is like an investment w/ an OTM long put and an OTM short call.You know, I think I liked Anon’s answer better :).
I’m just kidding MV. But seriously, would you argue that with a 60+ year old client?
Mini, an EIA is not an investment.
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