I'm out

Good luck to you.  You probably have made the best decision for your career and your personal life at this time.  As “he who should not be named” says if you are young you should get your initial start at a life insurance firm and get your feet wet before jumping into the deep end of the pool.  Actually I added that last part.

/wave

Just damn.  Tell us again how old are you, and what was your background before giving it a try?

[quote=NASD Newbie]Just damn.  Tell us again how old are you, and what was your background before giving it a try?[/quote]

What does that have to do with anything ..... except what little dress your pooch is wearing for dinner tonight?

[quote=dude]

I'm leaving the business.  Looks like I'm going to work for an insurance agency, less hours, more time for kids etc.... 

I'm definitely dissappointed, I LOVE this business and intend to come back in five or more years.  I just decided that right now my family is priority and the income to work ratio is too low (and will be for at least 3 more years).  Plus, since I just moved to the area about a year ago my network is pretty thin and this area is OWNED by Smith Barney by a large margin.  They are some tough competitors and much of the money has been entrenched there for years. 

Oh well, such is life.

[/quote]

Too bad you couldn't hack it. I wonder if it's because you spent too much time on this forum.

You should've found a weak spot in SB and exploited the crap out of it. Asset-based fees is an easy Achilles tendon to hit. I wish MY area were dominated by one firm.

[quote=xej1984]

[quote=NASD Newbie]Just damn.  Tell us again how old are you, and what was your background before giving it a try?[/quote]

What does that have to do with anything ..... except what little dress your pooch is wearing for dinner tonight?

[/quote]

It's always good to know what hurdles people were able to overcome and which ones proved insurmountable (sp?) at the time.  This is exactly the type of knowledge that potential and new advisors come to this type of forum in order to learn and prepare themselves for.

It seemed like an honest question from Newb and the answer could benefit a lot of young reps (and some older ones as well, I expect).

Good luck dude!!!

dude,

Did you have what Ameriprise calls a "natural market?"

Was your wife supportive?

Are creditors closing in?

Were you on a guaranteed salary that ran out?  If so, how long ago did it run out?

Do you think your firm could have given you more support?  If so, what?

Can you identify an event or action that was a turning point?

Had you emotionally given up some time ago?

These are the kinds of things that I would talk to you about if you were working for me--some of the, of course, I would know and would not have asked.

Guys like me have seen hundreds, perhaps thousands, of guys give it a try and leave.

Whenever it happens it's like a death in the family.  You can only imagine what dude is dealing with--but I want him to know he's not the Lone Ranger and his attitude that he'll be back is admirable.

I hope you didn't burn any bridges, you never know when some guy around the office can help you somewhere else along the way.

Heck…guys like me have seen dozens and dozens come and go. Out of a group of a hundred, I would not be surprised that only 30 are still in the business and with the same firm in 2 years. Rough out there…good luck.

[quote=knucklehead][quote=dude]

I'm leaving the business.  Looks like I'm going to work for an insurance agency, less hours, more time for kids etc.... 

I'm definitely dissappointed, I LOVE this business and intend to come back in five or more years.  I just decided that right now my family is priority and the income to work ratio is too low (and will be for at least 3 more years).  Plus, since I just moved to the area about a year ago my network is pretty thin and this area is OWNED by Smith Barney by a large margin.  They are some tough competitors and much of the money has been entrenched there for years. 

Oh well, such is life.

[/quote]

Too bad you couldn't hack it. I wonder if it's because you spent too much time on this forum.

You should've found a weak spot in SB and exploited the crap out of it. Asset-based fees is an easy Achilles tendon to hit. I wish MY area were dominated by one firm.

[/quote]

In all honesty it has to do more with family support issues and age related issues (network etc...) than this forum (although I could have spent less time here duking it out with y'all, lol). 

You let a bunch of self-defeating thoughts defeat you. You just got beat by a bunch of words on your computer monitor that include “NASD newbie.” Turn of your f**king computer and clear your head. Old guys fail, too. Age has nothing to do with it. Work ethic has everything to do with it.

[quote=NASD Newbie]

dude,

Did you have what Ameriprise calls a "natural market?"

Was your wife supportive?

Are creditors closing in?

Were you on a guaranteed salary that ran out?  If so, how long ago did it run out?

Do you think your firm could have given you more support?  If so, what?

Can you identify an event or action that was a turning point?

Had you emotionally given up some time ago?

These are the kinds of things that I would talk to you about if you were working for me--some of the, of course, I would know and would not have asked.

[/quote]

No natural market, all cold calling.

Wife is definitely high maitenance.

Had to float myself for awhile on credit cards, but no vultures hovering.

Salary was running out and fee based business wasn't generating enough income to feel comfortable.

As far as firm support, I'm a believer that it's the individual....although I believe that there should be more of a push to pair young brokers up with teams, even though my natural market is not that great, I do bring to the table a lot of other strengths that could have really benefitted a team.

No major turning point other than the realization that I'd have to really knock the ball out of the park just to make a suitable living on fee based business.

I'd say that three months ago I started to get discouraged,  I've been in this business for 4 years now and due to life circumstances, I moved to a new area and had to start all over....leaving behind around $5 million in assets at Morgan (in another state) that could have helped. 

I'd be glad to answer any questions, if it would be helpful for others.

[quote=NASD Newbie]Just damn.  Tell us again how old are you, and what was your background before giving it a try?[/quote]

I am 29 years old, no college degree with about 10 years of sales experience and 6 of those years being finance related (mortgage broker and personal banker). 

I decided after spending a year remodeling my home to take a 4 month sabbatical back in 2002 and decided that I wanted to become a Financial Advisor.  I learned as much as I could about the business and started studying for the series 7 with a passion before I got hired. 

I applied at every major firm in a 40 mile radius and honed my pitch.  Every manager I talked to received persistent phone calls from me moving the hiring process along.

I got rejected alot but didn't care.  I convinced Morgan Stanley to hire me while they were firing a bunch of brokers during the bear market.  I was one of two hired that year.  The other guy was a 55 year old retired mid level executive at a nationally recognized company and had a directory of all his 'buddies' at the company.  He had a Master's degree, CFP, CFA and was a CPA, plus a nice pension.  Quite odd in retrospect that they hired me.  He's doing O.K. (much better than I was, but not where he should be at).

I counted my blessings for sure.

I worked my a*s off, 70 hours a week cold calling and running around like a chicken with my head cut off.  I was doing alright, but it would have been nice to get some better direction (Morgan was notorious for poor sales and business training at that time), but ultimately it comes down to who you know, what you're involved in and how much respect you carry with your target market.  I was a young unknown kid with big eyes and dreams and an intense work ethic. 

Frankly, I'm quite frustrated about it all since I defied all odds just getting into the business and here I am jumping ship....in retrospect I should have done it a year ago, but I can be quite stubborn and chronically optimistic.

Quit doing asset-based fees. It’s not working for you. Work for commissions and you can afford to stay in business. Besides…it’s too easy to steal accounts from brokers that charge fees. If I get a commish and the client decides to move, it’s no big deal. I’ve already been paid for my work.

I'm sorry to hear that dude.

Best of luck at the insurance agency.

[quote=knucklehead] You let a bunch of self-defeating thoughts defeat you. You just got beat by a bunch of words on your computer monitor that include "NASD newbie." Turn of your f**king computer and clear your head. Old guys fail, too. Age has nothing to do with it. Work ethic has everything to do with it. [/quote]

Perhaps there is truth in your comment, although it has virtually nothing to do with what others are saying on this board.  I think  the self defeating thoughts came more from being nagged all the time by my wife and seeing how hard it was on my kids to be honest. 

The sad fact is that a very high percentage of brokers entering this business today will not be around in 5 years...something like 80-90% depending on your source.

From what I'm reading there are empty offices at just about every wirehouse branch office because of the difficulty of the business climate.

All of the old time brokers in my branch {image of NASD pops up here} keep telling me that it's allot harder today to make it than it was 10-15 years ago. Do you buy that or is that just a cop out excuse from doing the hard work of capturing assets? 

[quote=knucklehead] Quit doing asset-based fees. It's not working for you. Work for commissions and you can afford to stay in business. Besides...it's too easy to steal accounts from brokers that charge fees. If I get a commish and the client decides to move, it's no big deal. I've already been paid for my work. [/quote]

Yeah, I certainly understand your point.  I'm actually going to be doing quite a bit of annuity business it seems.  Not my favorite (I'm a stock broker at heart), but the client generation system and sales process they have in place is pretty nice and appears very ethical.  Plus the payouts are better than at a wirehouse.

[quote=Registered Rep]

The sad fact is that a very high percentage of brokers entering this business today will not be around in 5 years...something like 80-90% depending on your source.

From what I'm reading there are empty offices at just about every wirehouse branch office because of the difficulty of the business climate.

All of the old time brokers in my branch {image of NASD pops up here} keep telling me that it's allot harder today to make it than it was 10-15 years ago. Do you buy that or is that just a cop out excuse from doing the hard work of capturing assets? 

[/quote]

I have heard the same thing and am not sure whether I fully embrace that position since it is somewhat self defeating.  Although I will say that cold calling 15 years ago was certainly more viable than it is now.  Also, I think it is harder to build a suitable income with fee based business in a short time.

[quote=dude]

[quote=knucklehead] Quit doing asset-based fees. It's not working for you. Work for commissions and you can afford to stay in business. Besides...it's too easy to steal accounts from brokers that charge fees. If I get a commish and the client decides to move, it's no big deal. I've already been paid for my work. [/quote]

Yeah, I certainly understand your point.  I'm actually going to be doing quite a bit of annuity business it seems.  Not my favorite (I'm a stock broker at heart), but the client generation system and sales process they have in place is pretty nice and appears very ethical.  Plus the payouts are better than at a wirehouse.

[/quote]

I think you may have trouble selling something that you don't believe in.

Well, since I'm going to be fed leads that are already looking to buy annuities and are conservative in nature, I don't think I'll have any issues selling them what they want.  In fact I think there are some genuine benefits to CD type annuities (like using a 10 year fixed rate annuity with a 10% withdrawal provision and 'laddering' it out every year) vs bonds in addition to a few other beneifits offered by annuities in general.

Also I can say that I'd rather be selling annuities than cars, home electronics or furniture.  Getting more experience selling financial products will benefit me more than selling other products.  In addition it is my belief that I may be able to leverage the business to ease my entry back into financial advising.

There are many instances where I sold a client a CD when an equity portfolio would have been a much better option.  Some people know what they want and there's no changing them.  Why waste my time trying to sell them an orange when they are convinced they need an apple.  I certainly try every time to educate them about the benefits of the orange, but some people just don't care.

dude, you know that I'm a huge fan of insurance agencies.   I'd be willing to bet that you are going to fail.  I don't mean this as a put down of you.  Rather, you should never trust a place that is promising you leads.

You are becoming a product salesman which is no different than selling cars, vacuums, etc.

Find a quality insurance agency that will actually allow you to run the type of practice that you want.  The wirehouse guys are going to disagree, but a quality insurance agency is a much better place to do financial advising that a wirehouse.  You will be able to do financial advising and not have to just be an asset gatherer.   PM me if you want more info.

[quote=anonymous]

dude, you know that I'm a huge fan of insurance agencies.   I'd be willing to bet that you are going to fail.  I don't mean this as a put down of you.  Rather, you should never trust a place that is promising you leads.

You are becoming a product salesman which is no different than selling cars, vacuums, etc.

Find a quality insurance agency that will actually allow you to run the type of practice that you want.  The wirehouse guys are going to disagree, but a quality insurance agency is a much better place to do financial advising that a wirehouse.  You will be able to do financial advising and not have to just be an asset gatherer.   PM me if you want more info.

[/quote]

Q: Do you know the difference between a financial planner making $100,000 and a car salesman who makes $300,000?

A: $200,000

knucklehead



Q: How many car salesman are making 300K?



A: 0

[quote=bankrep1]knucklehead

Q: How many car salesman are making 300K?

A: 0

[/quote]

I know of at least one car salesman who makes $300K per year.  How do I know?  He's a client.  And I'm not making that up.

[quote=Soothsayer]

[quote=bankrep1]knucklehead

Q: How many car salesman are making 300K?

A: 0

[/quote]

I know of at least one car salesman who makes $300K per year.  How do I know?  He's a client.  And I'm not making that up.

[quote=bankrep1]knucklehead

Q: How many car salesman are making 300K?

A: 0

[/quote]

About as many as there are financial planners making $100,000.

[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=Soothsayer]

[quote=bankrep1]knucklehead

Q: How many car salesman are making 300K?

A: 0

[/quote]

I know of at least one car salesman who makes $300K per year.  How do I know?  He's a client.  And I'm not making that up.

[/quote]

that is SWEET!

What kind of cars does he sell? do tell!
[/quote]

I don't have the exact number but the car salesman makes a three or four hundred dollars for a new car sale.  In order to earn $300 grand he'd have to be selling about 800 cars per year or close to four per working day.  Not plausible--sort of like claiming you know a guy who got hit by lightening twice.  Could be, but not plausible.

Now, the guy who owns the dealership is another story--although most of them have HUGE debt service obligations.

Allow me to introduce another issue into this.

As we've discussed the CFP designation is going to require a college degree soon--and dude says he doesn't have the degree.

I expect that his NASD licenses will be transferred to his new employer, but if he plans to reenter the business again in a few years he had best complete a CFP before it's too late.

Otherwise the doors may all be closed when he tries to return.

Give that some thought dude, always be playing the game with two or three moves yet to be made in mind.

[quote=NASD Newbie]

Allow me to introduce another issue into this.

As we've discussed the CFP designation is going to require a college degree soon--and dude says he doesn't have the degree.

I expect that his NASD licenses will be transferred to his new employer, but if he plans to reenter the business again in a few years he had best complete a CFP before it's too late.

Otherwise the doors may all be closed when he tries to return.

Give that some thought dude, always be playing the game with two or three moves yet to be made in mind.

[/quote]

I wonder how I've become so successful without being a CFP?

I would also like to ask a very provocative question, of dude but of any of the rest of you who fit this profile.

What I'm wondering is if the lack of a degree may be causing doubt in your own skills at the subconcious level.

There is something called, "The Imposter Syndrome" which everybody suffers when they're brand new in a career.  A new doctor feels like he's nowhere capable of healing, a new lawyer figures there is no way he can win a case and so forth.

What happens in most careers is you get over it--you build confidence with each and every success, no matter how small.

I have the degrees and I felt it, what I don't know is if people without a degree feel it more than those with degrees.

If somebody is going to respond to this don't bluster and posture about how having a degree is meaningless, blah, blah, blah--that attitude in itself is a form of the lack of confidence that I am speaking of.

A moment ago I said that self confidence is built with each and every success, no matter how small.

In an asset gathering environment it's so much more difficult to get the relationship started because you cannot do what I did, get the guy to buy 100 shares of a 30 stock, open the account and start playing the asset gathering game from a completely different level.

Those of you who work for full service firms should talk to your managers along those lines--you are discouraged from doing tranaction based business, but you are not forbidden to do it.

From your boss's point of view what will happen--and it does--is you become focused on being a good stock broker, which means you keep him posted on what's going on in the markets and so forth.

When you do that you cannot also be gathering large assets--and we all know that that really is what  you should be doing.

The industry really does have a huge problem--competition from every corner, discount and internet brokers making transaction based business models nearly impossible, citizens being required to manage their own retirement plans with advice from (and I know you don't like to hear it, but it's true) a younger generation of men and women who don't have the proper educations and/or work ethics because of a laundry list of social issues.

[quote=knucklehead]

I wonder how I've become so successful without being a CFP? [/quote]

Well, in your case it's by being unethical and dishonest.

But for those who would rather go to the dentist than be anything like you having a CFP is going to become the minimum standard.

Back to the car thing most car salesmen make 50-70K, the average advisor according to forbes or money mag. makes 127K so what you said is a sign that A.) your failing and probably make about 24K a year and B.) that you know nothing about our business which suggests you have been in it less than 1 year.

[quote=NASD Newbie]

[quote=knucklehead]

I wonder how I've become so successful without being a CFP? [/quote]

Well, in your case it's by being unethical and dishonest.

But for those who would rather go to the dentist than be anything like you having a CFP is going to become the minimum standard.

[/quote]

Since you couldn't honestly and ethically make a living, the rest of us can't? I've found that people would rather make money than have a 32 page book that tells them how much money they should have in 30 years. I've NEVER lost a client to a CFP.

[quote=NASD Newbie]

I would also like to ask a very provocative question, of dude but of any of the rest of you who fit this profile.

What I'm wondering is if the lack of a degree may be causing doubt in your own skills at the subconcious level.

There is something called, "The Imposter Syndrome" which everybody suffers when they're brand new in a career.  A new doctor feels like he's nowhere capable of healing, a new lawyer figures there is no way he can win a case and so forth.

What happens in most careers is you get over it--you build confidence with each and every success, no matter how small.

I have the degrees and I felt it, what I don't know is if people without a degree feel it more than those with degrees.

If somebody is going to respond to this don't bluster and posture about how having a degree is meaningless, blah, blah, blah--that attitude in itself is a form of the lack of confidence that I am speaking of.

A moment ago I said that self confidence is built with each and every success, no matter how small.

In an asset gathering environment it's so much more difficult to get the relationship started because you cannot do what I did, get the guy to buy 100 shares of a 30 stock, open the account and start playing the asset gathering game from a completely different level.

Those of you who work for full service firms should talk to your managers along those lines--you are discouraged from doing tranaction based business, but you are not forbidden to do it.

From your boss's point of view what will happen--and it does--is you become focused on being a good stock broker, which means you keep him posted on what's going on in the markets and so forth.

When you do that you cannot also be gathering large assets--and we all know that that really is what  you should be doing.

The industry really does have a huge problem--competition from every corner, discount and internet brokers making transaction based business models nearly impossible, citizens being required to manage their own retirement plans with advice from (and I know you don't like to hear it, but it's true) a younger generation of men and women who don't have the proper educations and/or work ethics because of a laundry list of social issues.

[/quote]

oh please oldster no you are trying to psycho analyze the industry WHILE you instruct us in grammar and spelling...  (You mis-spelt subconcious and transaction  hahahahahahaha)

Just who the heck do you think you are?  You are nothing but a sanctimonious blowhard! go away and ejoy your retirement with your family ....... if they'll have you.

[quote=knucklehead][quote=NASD Newbie]

[quote=knucklehead]

I wonder how I've become so successful without being a CFP? [/quote]

Well, in your case it's by being unethical and dishonest.

But for those who would rather go to the dentist than be anything like you having a CFP is going to become the minimum standard.

[/quote]

Since you couldn't honestly and ethically make a living, the rest of us can't? I've found that people would rather make money than have a 32 page book that tells them how much money they should have in 30 years. I've NEVER lost a client to a CFP.

[/quote]

That is irrelevant, the CFP is going to become a minimum expectation, and if you don't have it you will be considered unqualified.

Which you are, always have been, and always will be.

[quote=NASD Newbie]I don’t have the exact number but the car salesman makes a three or four hundred dollars for a new car sale.  In order to earn $300 grand he’d have to be selling about 800 cars per year or close to four per working day.  Not plausible–sort of like claiming you know a guy who got hit by lightening twice.  Could be, but not plausible.

[/quote]

Not all car salesmen are at domestic car dealerships doing high volume, low profit deals around invoice prices.  I know several car salesman making that kind of scratch.  There's quite a bit more profit on a $100,000+ car sale (Porsche, Ferrari's, Bentley's, etc) than one on a $20,000 Caravan, and many of those guys selling $100k cars also have access to BMW's and Mercedes' to keep their volume each month inbetween the big ticket cars.

[quote=NASD Newbie][quote=knucklehead][quote=NASD Newbie]

[quote=knucklehead]

I wonder how I've become so successful without being a CFP? [/quote]

Well, in your case it's by being unethical and dishonest.

But for those who would rather go to the dentist than be anything like you having a CFP is going to become the minimum standard.

[/quote]

Since you couldn't honestly and ethically make a living, the rest of us can't? I've found that people would rather make money than have a 32 page book that tells them how much money they should have in 30 years. I've NEVER lost a client to a CFP.

[/quote]

That is irrelevant, the CFP is going to become a minimum expectation, and if you don't have it you will be considered unqualified.

Which you are, always have been, and always will be.

[/quote]

Expectation of what? Unqualified to do what?

Dude.

Good luck with your future endeavors. You have made productive contributions to this board by displaying a good understanding of the industry and responding in intelligent verse.

Feel free to drop by from time to time...

Knucklehead,



You will probably never lose a client to a CFP, it is that you wil never have the opportunity to sit with them in the first place becasue you don’t have it.



I have people comment on it all the time. That is one reason they chose to let me talk to them. I do not do 90 page plans for anybody.

[quote=knucklehead]

Expectation of what? Unqualified to do what?

[/quote]

How about if NASD or some other industry body started an advertising campaign similar to the one mounted by Underwriters Laboratory years ago?  That campaign led to the reality that unless something electrical has a UL label on it you should not buy it.

There have been massive campaigns such as, "Look for the union label" on clothing and "Buy America" or "Made in America by Americans."  Those have had mixed results but they were mounted nonetheless.

The financial services industry could finally get fed up with people like you and start a campaign with the theme being, "If they're not a Certified Financial Planner you should avoid them like the plague," although it will probably be more subtle.

[quote=STL Indy] [quote=NASD Newbie]I don’t have the exact number but the car salesman makes a three or four hundred dollars for a new car sale. In order to earn $300 grand he’d have to be selling about 800 cars per year or close to four per working day. Not plausible–sort of like claiming you know a guy who got hit by lightening twice. Could be, but not plausible.

[/quote]

Not all car salesmen are at domestic car dealerships doing high volume, low profit deals around invoice prices. I know several car salesman making that kind of scratch. There’s quite a bit more profit on a $100,000+ car sale (Porsche, Ferrari’s, Bentley’s, etc) than one on a $20,000 Caravan, and many of those guys selling $100k cars also have access to BMW’s and Mercedes’ to keep their volume each month inbetween the big ticket cars.

The CFP doesn’t have the kind of clout that was held forth by the AFL-CIO in the union heyday.  The NASD wouldn’t initiate that kind of campaign, as it could lead to another SRO infringing on it’s turf and that of course must NEVER be allowed.

I have to chuckle a bit when I hear of this talk of having to be a CFP.  I often come across prospects who mention that they've also been interviewing a CFP.  My immediate is response is- "Excellent.  I imagine they had quite a bit to say about insurance, as well as products that offer tax-deferral." They typically reply- "uh, yeah.  How did you know?"

Certainly having a CFP can be of benefit.  Perhaps someday we'll all need it to stay/be competitive.  That said, I don't think it will ever make up for experience, investment savvy, and a top-notch investment platform made available to clients.

[quote=NASD Newbie][quote=joedabrkr] [quote=Soothsayer]

[quote=bankrep1]knucklehead

Q: How many car salesman are making 300K?

A: 0

[/quote]

I know of at least one car salesman who makes $300K per year.  How do I know?  He's a client.  And I'm not making that up.

[/quote]

that is SWEET!

What kind of cars does he sell? do tell!
[/quote]

I don't have the exact number but the car salesman makes a three or four hundred dollars for a new car sale.  In order to earn $300 grand he'd have to be selling about 800 cars per year or close to four per working day.  Not plausible--sort of like claiming you know a guy who got hit by lightening twice.  Could be, but not plausible.

Now, the guy who owns the dealership is another story--although most of them have HUGE debt service obligations.

[/quote]

For all of the doubters, he works at a very large new car dealership, but almost exclusively sells used cars.  He specializes in high-end US pickup trucks that are 1 or 2 years old.  Dualies, diesels, V-10s, that sort of things.  He also does a lot of lease return sales on European and Japanese luxury cars.  Additionally, he handles most of the wholesaling of trade-ins that the dealership does not want to hold as inventory.  Most of this is done over the phone, and the guy has contacts in every Western state.  He has a very large repeat customer following, and focuses on only the nicest and cleanest late model vehicles.  He is about 34 years old now, and has been in the car business since he was 17--dropped out of high school.  He has the NADA and Kelly book values burnt in his brain every month, and really knows every make and model of vehicle.  Things like what features were options in one model year, but became standard later.  When engine enhancements came about giving 10-15hp boost over the previous year--that kind of thing. 

As far as making $400 per car, you don't know jack about the used car business, Newbie.  The guy I'm speaking of regularly makes $1000-$2500 per car.  Remember, he's selling $40K pickups that are 10 months old.  There's money in that business.  I met with him on Monday of this week.  His August numbers aren't in yet, but he will be close to clearing $300K year to date by the end of this month.

There’s a lot of juice in used cars and it wouldn’t surprise me at all if the used guys made more money. Lower price and more juice is a good combination.

[quote=NASD Newbie]

Allow me to introduce another issue into this.

As we've discussed the CFP designation is going to require a college degree soon--and dude says he doesn't have the degree.

I expect that his NASD licenses will be transferred to his new employer, but if he plans to reenter the business again in a few years he had best complete a CFP before it's too late.

Otherwise the doors may all be closed when he tries to return.

Give that some thought dude, always be playing the game with two or three moves yet to be made in mind.

[/quote]

I have already reasearched it and have found that it is too late for me based on the requirements.  Although I can get a CFA, but am sure that it will be a difficult road.

[quote=NASD Newbie]

I would also like to ask a very provocative question, of dude but of any of the rest of you who fit this profile.

What I'm wondering is if the lack of a degree may be causing doubt in your own skills at the subconcious level.

There is something called, "The Imposter Syndrome" which everybody suffers when they're brand new in a career.  A new doctor feels like he's nowhere capable of healing, a new lawyer figures there is no way he can win a case and so forth.

What happens in most careers is you get over it--you build confidence with each and every success, no matter how small.

I have the degrees and I felt it, what I don't know is if people without a degree feel it more than those with degrees.

If somebody is going to respond to this don't bluster and posture about how having a degree is meaningless, blah, blah, blah--that attitude in itself is a form of the lack of confidence that I am speaking of.

A moment ago I said that self confidence is built with each and every success, no matter how small.

In an asset gathering environment it's so much more difficult to get the relationship started because you cannot do what I did, get the guy to buy 100 shares of a 30 stock, open the account and start playing the asset gathering game from a completely different level.

Those of you who work for full service firms should talk to your managers along those lines--you are discouraged from doing tranaction based business, but you are not forbidden to do it.

From your boss's point of view what will happen--and it does--is you become focused on being a good stock broker, which means you keep him posted on what's going on in the markets and so forth.

When you do that you cannot also be gathering large assets--and we all know that that really is what  you should be doing.

The industry really does have a huge problem--competition from every corner, discount and internet brokers making transaction based business models nearly impossible, citizens being required to manage their own retirement plans with advice from (and I know you don't like to hear it, but it's true) a younger generation of men and women who don't have the proper educations and/or work ethics because of a laundry list of social issues.

[/quote]

You know, I have never really felt like a lack of degree to be an impediment.  When I first imagined getting into the business I was a little fearful that it would be an issue.  I took an inventory of my abilities and experiences and determined that I was MORE qualified than some young buck straight out of college.....I had a track record of sales success, the ability to learn very quickly, experience in a financial setting and a candor that was much more polished than my friends who recently graduated......and frankly, I had better grammar, was more articulate and better educated than they were, because I don't really watch T.V. or have ever wasted much of my time.  I am always learning on my own and have a very self directed passion to educate myself.  I excelled in every test I took during my training at Morgan Stanley (I had the highest series 7 score that the office ever had until they hired the older guy with the CFP, CFA, CPA and masters degree, he got a 93, I got a 92).

That being said, I suspect I'm in the minority in this society and for most people a college degree is critical.  I live in a college town and have considered getting a degree (or maybe calling one of those online places that give you a quiz and issue a degree based on your competencies ), but right now I'm going to take a little break and collect myself before throwing any more irons in the fire.

As far as my current job arrangement, I'll be getting a non revokable salary and it is a unique setup in the insurance world.....so it's not comparable to working as an insurance agent per se. 

Thanks for the good discussion.

Good luck to you, Dude.  I hate to see someone that is intelligent and honest leave the business.

Thank you Proton, your encouragement is appreciated.

[quote=knucklehead][quote=NASD Newbie][quote=knucklehead]I wonder how I’ve become so successful without being a CFP? [/quote]Well, in your case it’s by being unethical and dishonest.

But for those who would rather go to the dentist than be anything like you having a CFP is going to become the minimum standard.[/quote]Since you couldn't honestly and ethically make a living, the rest of us can't? I've found that people would rather make money than have a 32 page book that tells them how much money they should have in 30 years. I've NEVER lost a client to a CFP.[/quote]

 Yes, Dirk, you are truly a legend in your own mind.  While I've fired some clients, I can count the ones that I've actually lost on one hand...and I haven't lost the first one since I started my own firm last summer.  I'm confident that having a CFP is certainly not hurting my reputation...and the only ones who argue otherwise are those who don't have it.  Coincidence?  I think not...

dude, I  echo blarmston & Protons’ sentiments. Best of luck to
you  and thanks  for your contributions and candor.<!–
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Thanks y’all.  I’ll be around from time to time, this business is too interesting for me to just stick my head in the ground, plus I’ll be working in a related field so this board will be helpful in keeping up with industry trends etc…

Best of luck to you, dude.  Needless to say, your comments about the impact this career has on one’s family life scares me.  But I’ve decided to take the plunge anyway, or I’ll regret it later. 

When you're at work, work like a draft horse.  Make time for the family and try to include them in what you're doing.  Hopefully your wife works in a professional field, it will help her understand....plus it will keep her from calling you all day because the kids are stressing her out . 

When I got hired at Morgan we had one kid.  My second week in training we found out that my wife was pregnant, I remember thinking "Oh sh*t!".  She had the baby my first week of production and it was very incovenient timing to say the least. 

Don't have anymore kids!

Good luck.

Or tell your wife unless she wants to get a job she needs to leave you alone between 8 and 5

later dude-

parting advice?

stay away from here (and all of the insurance discussion boards out there also) and GET BUSY!!!

(newby: notice the C in advice?)