AUM and golf (not for newbies)

why not for n00bs?

[quote=silouette]

Well, it is that time of the year.

I am starting to feel really guilty about being in this business.

Anyone have any great golf and biz development ideas?

I suggest eveyone who can work harder and smarter in the AM, and try to get put in with a random threesome around 3 pm, if you can. Don't tell anyone what you do, unless they ask. But find out about them. Take their card, don't give out yours.

http://www.ahajokes.com/gol009.html

[/quote]

How have I made it 8 years without your guidance?

try to get put in with a random threesome around 3 pm

We are still talking golf here, I suppose? 

[quote=babbling looney]

try to get put in with a random threesome

around 3 pm

We are still talking golf here, I suppose?

Babs & Philo: 

Imagine calling Hugh Hefner on Saturday morning and asking if he would be interested in a foursome that afternoon....GOLF, that is!

[quote=babbling looney]

try to get put in with a random threesome around 3 pm

We are still talking golf here, I suppose? 

[/quote]

[quote=babbling looney]

try to get put in with a random threesome around 3 pm

We are still talking golf here, I suppose? 

[/quote]

You just earned my vote for "Queen of the Earth". 

why not for n00bs?

 Just kidding - if you are a golfer, you are in. I meant, maybe noobs are too busy. But you can never be too busy for golf. I never thought of golf as being voyeuristic, though, looney. Or perhaps you didn't mean just watching.

You just earned my vote for "Queen of the Earth". 

Maybe she gives spankings, authority figure and all of that.

How have I made it 8 years without your guidance?

I dunno, Bobby, but you should respect your elders. Is it fair to say you're not a golfing fan? How about a joke, at least. C'mon buddy, don't be angry like Bill O'reilly and Geraldo.

Sil, I noticed while playing at one of the middle level golf clubs that their towels at the ball wash were somewhat ragged. I asked the club pro if I would supply the towels would he let me put my logo on it. He did and I had a lot of people take notice. I re supplied a few times. However, last time I played a bank had put new ones along with the golf courses logo. I had it for about 2 years.

[quote=Bamzor]

Sil, I noticed while playing at one of the middle level golf clubs that their towels at the ball wash were somewhat ragged. I asked the club pro if I would supply the towels would he let me put my logo on it. He did and I had a lot of people take notice. I re supplied a few times. However, last time I played a bank had put new ones along with the golf courses logo. I had it for about 2 years.

Being new in the business, I have two questions regarding golf and clients:

1. I enjoy golf, have a decent understanding of the rules and etiquette, but am a terrible player.  Should that stop me from playing with clients?

2. Do wholesalers normally offer to pay for a foursome?  If so, what do you think about allowing him/her to do so, and inviting a couple clients?  Provided the wholesaler doesn't pour it on of course...

Thanks in advance for constructive input.

[quote=justcheckin]

Being new in the business, I have two questions regarding golf and clients:

1. I enjoy golf, have a decent understanding of the rules and etiquette, but am a terrible player. Should that stop me from playing with clients?

2. Do wholesalers normally offer to pay for a foursome? If so, what do you think about allowing him/her to do so, and inviting a couple clients? Provided the wholesaler doesn’t pour it on of course…

Thanks in advance for constructive input.

[quote=justcheckin]

Being new in the business, I have two questions regarding golf and clients:

1. I enjoy golf, have a decent understanding of the rules and etiquette, but am a terrible player.  Should that stop me from playing with clients?

2. Do wholesalers normally offer to pay for a foursome?  If so, what do you think about allowing him/her to do so, and inviting a couple clients?  Provided the wholesaler doesn't pour it on of course...

Thanks in advance for constructive input.

 I'll bet Seth Klarman has some real positive thoughts about golf.

Allreit is pretty smart, but I would ingore A's golf advice.

1. Decide that golf is a big part of your life and business.

2. Buy a lesson package of 18. Take one lesson per week. Practice at the range and chipping and putting in between.

3. Start playing with people at your level - go just before sundown ( 2 hours for nine holes) - just play nine until you are better.

4. Take plenty of cheap balls - don't waste time chasing balls. Just drop another ball if you hit a long bad shot.

5. Work on your putting and chipping. Get clubs that are designed to be easy to hit.

6. Everyone needs to have fun and get exercise, is golf your sport? If you choose it and make a commitment.

7. Golf IS the sport of money. Everyone respects a decent golfer and will want to do business, all other things being equal. There is no quicker way to work through the personal issues of financial planning relaltionships.

8. Have one beer and keep moving after a round. Nine holes is great fun for many, and is quick.

9. Have wholesalers sponsor a lesson and lunch at a range or club and invite clients to bring their friends. Do this every month for many months - mail out invites to your clients, just casually mention it. Watch how much business jumps into the boat - business you did not chase, not that is professional.

10. Happy Easter, and happy Master's tournament.

I sure hope there are a few golfers on this forum who will stick around and help us enjoy advisor life through rose colored glasses .

Personally, if my broker invited me golfing, it would imply that he fritters away more time on the golf course (with me, other clients, or prospects) vs managing my investments.

Not all clients are smart enough to realize this; especially the golfers.

I have even met the occasional intelligent golfer, and advisor.  

Often, money is placed in professionally managed, diversified vehicles called mutual funds, thus freeing up time for advisor and client to spend time on what is really important, building the relationship. Having access to a national pool of investment management talent is not bad, either.

And finally, just remember the words of my multimillionaire client, who encouraged me to pursue golf, so I could " play " with him :

" Noboby cares how well you play, only how fast you play."

Be ready to drop a ball next to where your client hits, if necessary. Even just watch him or her tee off, and drop next to them to chip in and put, if necessary. Show some gumption and persistence.

Here is a potential strategy and focus for the right personal finanical advisor:

God, family, golf (and money). Works for me. If you want to learn about this business, watch how Tiger and the up and coming leaders handle adversity and opportunity today at the Masters, and remember, you are only as good as what you believe you can do.

Christ is risen! Truly he is risen!

[quote=silouette]

Personally, if my broker invited me golfing, it would imply that he fritters away more time on the golf course (with me, other clients, or prospects) vs managing my investments.

Not all clients are smart enough to realize this; especially the golfers.

I have even met the occasional intelligent golfer, and advisor. [/quote]

[quote]Often, money is placed in professionally managed, diversified vehicles called mutual funds, thus freeing up time for advisor and client to spend time on what is really important, building the relationship. Having access to a national pool of investment management talent is not bad, either. [/quote]

One musn't generalise, but people who will pay $200 for the chance to lose golf balls, aren't too smart about alot of things.

 I don't think any kind of logic is going to prevail here. Apparently we might as well be talking about walking on the moon.

Around these parts, you can lose a ball for much cheaper (like, ten times cheaper.)

1. Sometimes you have to lose something in order to find it.

2. When you focus on the target, instead of yourself, good things happen.

3. Getting into and being in " the zone"? Priceless. There are some things money can buy, for everything else, there is golf.

As far as golfers like me not being too bright, you may be right .

Perhaps we just recognize that there are different kind of intelligence. Golfing intelligence has nothing to do with logic, or growing your net worth in a linear fashion.

But let’s be honest here, is anyone else on this forum planning on getting their hands on a golf club today ( even just the driving range)? For me, it is going the gym, and it goes pretty well with protecting and growing money.

The club is closed on Mondays, and I have too much work to do anyway.  Maybe I’ll go out in the backyard and take a few swings with my Medicus.

Medicus, the club that causes Doctors to swear like longshoremen!

 At the heigth of driver frustration, right before a big breakthrough, I found a use Cobra driver at Golf Galaxy, 12 degree driver with a soft shank and a nasty looking hooked beak to help eliminate slices. My golf teacher was furious, wanting me to master a proper stroke using my " real " driver. Took the club out and was whaling consistent straight drives, albeit a little shy of 200 yards.

After another thrilling straight tee shot, I got excited and sped down the cart path toward my ball.  

Took a nasty bump on the golf cart and my bag goes fly off, crashes into a water cooler stand. I'm cleaning up the rubble, and I see the only damage is the Cobra driver is laying off to the side, the wicked head broken cleanly off the shank. And then I thought of my golf teacher and started laughing. Was it divine intervention?

That $130 lesson taught me more about club head angle than all the time I spent with my golf teacher. Because I went home, picked out my regular driver, and came back and started hitting it straight (not perfect) and never looked back. As a result, my family is happier because of my success - of course, this gives me the confidence to play pickup games in the afternoon and meet other small business owners like myself.

That's why I say: " God, Family, Golf and money ".  The self talk goes like, " keep it simple stupid ". Never come unhinged.

[quote=AllREIT] [quote=silouette]

Personally, if my broker invited me golfing, it would imply that he fritters away more time on the golf course (with me, other clients, or prospects) vs managing my investments.

Not all clients are smart enough to realize this; especially the golfers.

I have even met the occasional intelligent golfer, and advisor. [/quote]

One musn't generalise, but people who will pay $200 for the chance to lose golf balls, aren't too smart about alot of things. [/quote]

Wow, first the weird comment from you that most people moving to your area are tapped out due to buying their home (and thus aren't good prospects) and now this about the hobby of many HNW investors.

We must live on different planets...

I’m not a golfer, but I’m also not blind enough to believe that there’s no good business to be done on the golf course.  I’ve chosen to service the segment of the population that isn’t particularly interested in golf, realizing that I’ll miss some good business, but hopefully catch some other good business by being in the office/available at the right time.  It’s a tradeoff that I’m willing to accept since I don’t have the spare time to do golf justice, but I know I miss some good business by not taking up the habit. To think otherwise is naive at best.

And, Indy, there is always the prospect of having more time to do fun things with clients outside the office.

As far a hubris is concerned, we all have enough challenges to knock us down sometimes, and because we are good at getting up, we are successful and maybe think our own way is the best.

So, this thread is intended to be mainly about golf, and if it helps win a little more business, that's great.

http://golf.about.com/od/golfjokesandhumor/a/golfjoke0224.ht m

[quote=Whomitmayconcer]

Medicus, the club that causes Doctors to swear like longshoremen!

I do not Golf but I do snow ski.

On a powder day clients do not expect me to be in the office!

Go powder dog.

[quote=mikebutler222]One musn’t generalise, but people who will pay
$200 for the chance to lose golf balls, aren’t too smart about alot of
things. [/quote]

Wow, first the weird comment from you that most people moving to your area are tapped out due to buying their home (and thus aren't good prospects) and now this about the hobby of many HNW investors.

We must live on different planets...

[quote=AllREIT]

Sheldon Adelson: doesn't play golf.
Seth Klarman; doesn't play golf.    [/quote]<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Well, there's two people, that settles the issue. I guess all that talk about business being done on the golf course is just fantasy. 

BTW, congrats on landing those two as clients. Say, were they “tapped out” after they bought their last house and thus weren’t very good prospects?

[quote=AllREIT]

Golf is fundamentally bourgeois/aristocratic sport about showing off how much land you could tie up for raising sheep/hitting little balls around vs growing food[/quote]

I hope you find that little planet of yours fulfilling....

Sil…since spiffy won’t ask…Are you HOT?

[quote=mikebutler222]Well,
there’s two people, that settles the issue. I guess all that talk about
business being done on the golf course is just fantasy.  [/quote]

It mostly is.  It's a rationalization used to justify time/money spent playing golf.

If you like golf, you should play it for its own sake. If you want to do business, do business.

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=AllREIT] Golf is fundamentally bourgeois/aristocratic sport about showing off how much land you could tie up for raising sheep/hitting little balls around vs growing food[/quote]

I hope you find that little planet of yours fulfilling....

Make that 8% interested, of which 1% would show up.

Sil...since spiffy won't ask...Are you HOT?

 Maybe a little under the collar.

You ask Joe to make a little room in his male box, and he could do an androgynous distribution to the players to arouse a response to your  question.

I could go, but you will see that see that rich folks from certain social backgrounds, are highly unlikely to be golfers. Among my clientele, damn few golfers.

That just goes to show how you can't generalize about anyone else's business model.  The majority of my clients are golfers.  They live here and golf from April through Oct and then snowbird it to their second homes in Arizona, Hawaii, Costa Rica or some other place to be able to golf and get away from the weather. Fly fishing is another prominent activity here. Chile is a good vacation spot for that when the season is off. 

If Jack Nicklaus were to show up here about 80% of my book and a good 40% of the population would be there.  The rest would show up for Skip Foose.  I would be there for both events.

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=AllREIT] Golf is fundamentally bourgeois/aristocratic sport about showing off how much land you could tie up for raising sheep/hitting little balls around vs growing food[/quote] <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

I hope you find that little planet of yours fulfilling....

[/quote]

It's all about the <?:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />New York state of mind...

[/quote]

Go check the lines outside Beth Page or visit any number of  HNW gathering places DBA “golf Clubs”….they’re filled to the rafters with prospects.

You might as well tell me that fine dining and wine knowledge or sailing  are “fundamentally bourgeois/aristocratic” and that you won’t find HNW prospects engaged in those pursuits. How do you manage to haul that chip on your shoulder around all day?

[quote=AllREIT] After all, if they thought highly of golf, they would be golfers.  [/quote]

No, it’s more likely they lack the funds and the ability, thus, they get bitter. It’s like the guy that convinces himself he hates Porsches and the people who drive them and that those drivers are poor prospects and all because he can’t afford one.

The fact is this thread was about gathering assets and golf. Regardless who what you think of it, those two things fit together tightly. HNW people are the best prospects (unless you can build a book out of the type of people who are tapped out once they’ve bought a home) and people who join private clubs are HNW.

Fish where there are fish.

[quote=AllREIT]

If invited my whole book to go golfing with Jack Nicklaus, *maybe* 8% would show up. [/quote]

Then you’re the one “advisor” in the country that can say that. It probably says more about you and your book than anything else, but that’s another issue.

[quote=AllREIT]

At a social level, golfing is mostly a WASP thing. If you are parts of the country that are not WASPy, you arent going to see much interest in golf.
[/quote]

What a profoundly stupid thing to say. Golf is played by people from Hawaii to Maine and Florida. Well outside the “WASPy” zone.

Along that line (that reality is black and white), Allreit, I have to admire your logic. You did bring up a lot of true points. And the thing about owning sheep pasture is  .

[quote=silouette]

Along that line (that reality is black and white),
Allreit, I have to admire your logic. You did bring up a lot of true
points. And the thing about owning sheep pasture is  .

 [/quote]

Seriously, before lawnmowers were invented, thats how you kept the fairways/lawns trimmed. Sheep nibble grass down to about 1in of the roots.

So in feudal times, golfing ment owning lots of sheep. Which meant you had lots of productive land that you could afford not to farm or rent out.

The cost of maintaining a moden high class golf course in terms of chemicals/labor/water is staggering.

Golf and golfing are relics a feudal past in which resources were used/reserved for a rural aristocratic elite in contrast to bourgeois mass entertainments like theatre and pubs.

There are alot of HNW people who's background does not include golfing.

[quote=mikebutler222]You might as well tell me that fine dining and wine knowledge or sailing  are
“fundamentally bourgeois/aristocratic” and that you won’t find HNW
prospects engaged in those pursuits. How do you manage to haul that
chip on your shoulder around all day?
[/quote]



<o:p></o:p>Fine dining/music/culture etc are far more acessable in terms of time/money outlay.

[quote=AllREIT] After all, if they thought highly of golf, they would be golfers.  [/quote]

No, it’s more likely they lack the funds and the ability, thus, they get bitter. It’s like the guy that convinces himself he hates Porsches and the people who drive them and that those drivers are poor prospects and all because he can’t afford one.[/quote]

The old, "people who don't think like me are bitter" argument. It doesn't hold water. People who like golf are going to be golfers, people who don't like golf won't be golfers.

It's not like there are teeming masses of people who loiter around the gates of golf clubs hoping to be let in.

[quote]The fact is this thread was about gathering assets and golf. Regardless who what you think of it, those two things fit together tightly.[/quote]

Try offering a golf outing at a Hadassah meeting and see how many takers you get.

[quote]HNW people are the best prospects (unless you can build a book out of the type of people who are tapped out once they’ve bought a home) and people who join private clubs are HNW.[/quote]

There are so many private clubs/fuctions that are not about golf....

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=AllREIT]If invited my whole book to go golfing with Jack Nicklaus, *maybe* 8% would show up. [/quote]

Then you’re the one “advisor” in the country that can say that. It probably says more about you and your book than anything else, but that’s another issue.[/quote]

Not really, lets say I tend to prospect at fundraisers for the local world music society. Very unlikely to find golfers there. Ditto for friends of the local divinity school lecture program. etc

So while all the newbie POA's are practicing winning strokes with each other on the golf course, they ignore acres of diamonds off the greens.

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=AllREIT]At a social level, golfing is mostly a WASP thing. If you are parts of the country that are not WASPy, you arent going to see much interest in golf.
[/quote]

What a profoundly stupid thing to say. Golf is played by people from Hawaii to Maine and Florida. Well outside the “WASPy” zone.[/quote]

Try joining a typica; golf club prior to 1970s as black or a Jew. You can still see this down south, how many black members does Augusta National Golf Club have?

On the issue of golf being a elitest WASP sport, how many blacks were famous golfers before Tiger? How many were WASP's? You are deep in a sand bunker on this one. 

[quote=AllREIT]

Try offering a golf outing at a Hadassah meeting and see how many takers you get.

[quote=AllREIT] 

There are alot of HNW people who’s background does not include golfing.

[/quote]



True.  A few of them are clients and I invite them to dinner at
the club and we often discuss how they are mystified at my love of such
a silly game.  You can have the rest…there is plenty to go
around!

[quote=AllREIT] [quote=silouette]

Along that line (that reality is black and white), Allreit, I have to admire your logic. You did bring up a lot of true points. And the thing about owning sheep pasture is  .

 [/quote]

Seriously, before lawnmowers were invented, thats how you kept the fairways/lawns trimmed. Sheep nibble grass down to about 1in of the roots.

So in feudal times, golfing ment owning lots of sheep. Which meant you had lots of productive land that you could afford not to farm or rent out.

The cost of maintaining a moden high class golf course in terms of chemicals/labor/water is staggering.

Golf and golfing are relics a feudal past in which resources were used/reserved for a rural aristocratic elite in contrast to bourgeois mass entertainments like theatre and pubs.

There are alot of HNW people who's background does not include golfing.

[/quote]

Well, I enjoy your perspective. You are so logical, you give me insight into a whole style of thinking - reasonable, uh huh, yep, logical, okay, that adds up to ... no fun at the golf course  .

I think a lot of folks find themselves in a position, from time to time, where they get invited to play a round, or maybe just want to go to the covered driving range on a winter day and stretch a bit.

So if you offer a fun, low key lesson and lunch, like I do, you have a lot of fun and get to commune with the Ancient Tradition, poke fun at your own ego and so on.

I wouldn't mind having a few of those sheep to come around and mow my yard.

By the way, Tiger completely blows the lid off the whole race and landed gentry logic. Many courses are publicly owned, very blue collar type of stuff - that is the beauty, the common person has access.

Funky and nice, golf does require total devotion. Just like some folks love symphony, others must sleep there or get up from their desks and move about the course in order to relax.

The farmer and the cow man should be friends.

[quote=silouette

So if you offer a fun, low key lesson and lunch,
like I do, you have a lot of fun and get to commune with the Ancient
Tradition, poke fun at your own ego and so on.

I wouldn't mind having a few of those sheep to come around and mow my yard.

[quote=AllREIT]

On the issue of golf being a elitest WASP sport, how many blacks were famous golfers before Tiger? How many were WASP's? You are deep in a sand bunker on this one. 

[/quote]

You're living at least three decades back and still holding a grudge. Nurse it as long as you can.

What I propose instead is; Mini-golf. Everyone likes that and you can have alot of fun with it.

 It should be required. The sheep could just roam around as moving targets, to keep it interesting. Al Gore would approve of the energy impact, since the dung can be recycled.

[quote=silouette]

I wouldn’t mind having a few of those sheep to come around and mow my yard.

[quote=AllREIT] [quote=silouette

So if you offer a fun, low key lesson and lunch, like I do, you have a lot of fun and get to commune with the Ancient Tradition, poke fun at your own ego and so on.

I wouldn't mind having a few of those sheep to come around and mow my yard.

[/quote]

What I propose instead is; Mini-golf. Everyone likes that and you can have alot of fun with it.
[/quote]

That could probably work as well as anything else.

[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=silouette]

I wouldn't mind having a few of those sheep to come around and mow my yard.

[/quote]

And good to have on those long dark lonely winter nights, as well.


(Sorry couldn't resist...)
[/quote]

 Bote raymember thay olde Scottish ademonishion:

" Eef yayh lie doyne weth sheep, yell rise up weth fleas."

That could probably work as well as anything else.

Did you mean the sheep?

[quote=silouette]

That could probably work as well as anything else.

Did you mean the sheep?

[/quote]

Only the pretty ones.

 Don't see many pretty sheep out on the links these days.

Do you know anything about geese?

[quote=silouette]

 Don't see many pretty sheep out on the links these days.

Do you know anything about geese?

[/quote]

Seriously...your sh*t is pretty weak.

[quote=Bobby Hull][quote=silouette]

 Don't see many pretty sheep out on the links these days.

Do you know anything about geese?

[/quote]

Seriously...your sh*t is pretty weak.

Let me put in a sacharrine, or a sheepish remark here if you will:  you boys play nice now; it's not nice, quit acting like billy goats.../gang up, bully and outnumber.

[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=Bobby Hull][quote=silouette]

 Don't see many pretty sheep out on the links these days.

Do you know anything about geese?

[/quote]

Seriously...your sh*t is pretty weak.

[/quote]

I'll second that....
[/quote]

 Awlright Joe, the hunnymoon is over, and you're runnin with Bobby.

You must get mean when you drink. Yer a** is grass.

Anyway, at least my sh*t don't stink - that's the signature of the herd.

( Boy, Bobby sure is clever at creatively flicking sh*t, blows me away.)

[quote=silouette][quote=joedabrkr] [quote=Bobby Hull][quote=silouette]

 Don't see many pretty sheep out on the links these days.

Do you know anything about geese?

[/quote]

Seriously...your sh*t is pretty weak.

[/quote]

I'll second that....
[/quote]

 Awlright Joe, the hunnymoon is over, and you're runnin with Bobby.

You must get mean when you drink. Yer a** is grass.

Anyway, at least my sh*t don't stink - that's the signature of the herd.

( Boy, Bobby sure is clever at creatively flicking sh*t, blows me away.)