Another one for you Mr. Mike

Dude, that’s a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking on your part.

Yeah…a slow day.  Stirring up the mud a little helps with the slow days.  All in good fun of course.

[quote=Indyone]Dude, that's a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking on your part.[/quote]

He also said we aren't losing the war in the same article.

Well, that's nice but how about including the rest of the quotes and not just the ones that support your tin foil hat ensemble.   Dibbs on blue.

Gates later said he agreed with a recent statement by Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Peter Pace that the United States is neither winning nor losing in Iraq. But he also made clear that he saw some missteps in the U.S. approach in Iraq, saying he didn't believe enough troops were sent to Iraq to quell looting and violence immediately after Saddam Hussein's government fell.

The reason we are not "winning" this war is because we don't have enough troops on the ground and are too concerned about having a politically correct war where no one actually gets hurt and we don't offend the delicate sensibilities of the Islamo-facist or their supporters on the left.  Can you imagine the whining and hand wringing if we actually fought this war on a level of a real war like ....oh.... say..... World War 2 where 62 million people died.  The military has not been allowed to do its job and has been hampered by all this political correctness BS.  If they had been allowed to take names and kick a@@ from day one and hadn't been hamstrung by the New York Slimes newspaper at every turn, we would probably not be having this discussion.  But no, we have to hear about every single casualty even if the daily body count is actually less than that in a single city in the US like Chicago.  In addition we get to hear the propaganda and outright lies created by the enemy as if it were fact, daily regurgitated by the AP. 

http://newsbushttp://www.examiner.com/blogs/tapscotts_copy_d esk/2006/12/5/How-to-end-APs-60-Minutes-Moment-on-Iraqi-Sour cesters.org/node/9396

On the issue of troop levels, Gates said he envisioned a long-term, U.S. presence to stabilize Iraq "but it could be with a dramatically smaller number of U.S. forces than are there today." He offered no number.

Gates also said he considered an attack on Iran to stop its nuclear programs an "absolute last resort" and made a comment that might just as well apply to Iraq as Iran.

Anyone who has ever raised children or trained a dog knows you must say what you mean, mean what you say, and follow through on threats.  If we say that we will attack Iran if they don't stop the creation of nuclear bombs, we had damn well better back up our words with actions.  God help us all if we don't.

You can't un-ring a bell. Whether we were right or not to go into Iraq is a moot point and it is pointless to navel gaze on the past.  We are there now and we need to win and win decisively.  If we give up, go whining home as we did in the past in the Middle East and in Vietnam, we will just embolden the enemy who wants to kill us all.   Not just Republicans but guess what YOU TOO.  If we don't show a nut sack and back up our words with actions we might as well just resign ourselves to never-ending terrorist attacks on the United States and forget ever taking a vacation in Europe without wearing a burka.

Here's the deal Dude.  You are very very young and idealistic.  That's nice, most adolescents are prone to see the world through a narrow window of experience and through rose colored glassed.   I don't want the world to be run by adolescents.  In about 25 years, if we all live that long, I hope you look back at the younger Dude and say   What was I thinking.

Hear Hear Babs…I’m with you all the way!!!

Amen, sister…

/bow

[quote=babbling looney]

Well, that's nice but how about including the rest of the quotes and not just the ones that support your tin foil hat ensemble.   Dibbs on blue.

[/quote]

There was a link if you didn't notice...

[quote=babbling looney]

Here's the deal Dude.  You are very very young and idealistic.  That's nice, most adolescents are prone to see the world through a narrow window of experience and through rose colored glassed.   I don't want the world to be run by adolescents.  In about 25 years, if we all live that long, I hope you look back at the younger Dude and say   What was I thinking.

[/quote]

So there's no older pragmatic individuals which support my position?  I guess Bond Guy is an ideal adolescent? 

To me your contention or implication that Vietnam is a war we really could have won is silly and adolescent. 

Anyone who has studied Vietnam and Vietnamese history is well aware that they have been fighting as a culture for centuries and centuries against foriegn powers and they don't give up...period.  Also it demonstrates an ignorance of the way the Vietnamese viewed the war. 

The only college class I've ever taken was on Vietnam..given by a highly decorated former Special Forces professor (who happened to be a strong conservative btw) who trained soldiers and ran numerous missions in Vietnam.  

It was his class where I first learned to understand the 'perceptual lens' concept.  His intimate understanding forged by experience in Vietnam is responsible to a great degree for my own 'perceptual lens' concerning war.

Frankly, I'm not all too excited that a bunch of crusty old has beens suckled on the nipple of warmongering and falsly induced fears are the one's who direct the policies which sacrifice the lives of my 'adolecent' peers. 

I'm intensely patriotic, but can't stand for geriatrics like yourself telling me that my opinions and beliefs are worthy of an ignorant teenager.  Especially since I'm in the generation which would sacrifice our lives for whatever 'cause' your generation seems to believe in. 

Make any bullsh*t comment you like about the Gen x or y'ers and the degredation of our youth.  I think it's a good thing that some of us actually think, unlike the generations past. 

What I lack in experience, I make up for in my advisors.

[quote=joedabrkr]Hear Hear Babs....I'm with you all the way!!!! [/quote]

Fine Joe...you go fight the war.  I'll stay at home smiling in my garden thankful that I'm not risking my life in vain.

dude,

You said, "I'm intensely patriotic, but can't stand for geriatrics like yourself telling me that my opinions and beliefs are worthy of an ignorant teenager.  Especially since I'm in the generation which would sacrifice our lives for whatever 'cause' your generation seems to believe in." 

Are you really in the generation that would sacrifice their lives?  Have you served in the military?  Do you understand that generals should be allowed to fight wars, not politicians?  Do you understand that those "terrorists" over there want us dead no matter what?  DO you understand that if we don't fight them on their soil, we'll fight them on ours?  Do you understand that whimpering and whining and tucking our tails and running just makes them want to kill us even more?  Do you understand that if the press weren't so busy printing and video taping the negatives, that maybe we could see the positives?  Do you understand that there are more people dying here from drug overdoses, murders, and drunk drivers than there are soldiers killed in the line of duty in Iraq?  DO you understand that those soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines jooined an all volunteer force knowing that they may one day be asked to die for their country and did it without "any mental reservation"?  Do you understand that the swore to serve and protect the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic?  Why is it that their biggest enemy right now is the domestic enemy to include half of the politicians who couldn't give a rat's behind about the troops but will stand and lie on national television about how concerned they are for their safety?

dude,

    Crawl back under a rock.  I guarabtee you that if we had elected the other two bozos who ran against Bush, their would have been many, many more deaths on U.S. soil since 9-11.

Oh, by the way, I am a 25 year retired veteran and do know a little about the feelings of the troops that are serving today.  They are willing to die to protect your right to your opinion.  Are you willing to die to protect their right to their opinion?  Think about it. 

To the grammar/spelling police.  Sorry I mis-spelled guarantee – guarabtee.

I think everyone here is missing the point....Bush is full of hot air and is densely obstinant.  He has been trumpeting that we are 'winning' in Iraq, when that is not the truth.

My point is that there should be no war in Iraq.  The real front for the war on terror should be Afghanistan.  Iraq is a DISTRACTION from the war on terror.

Some here are boxing me into a corner where I don't belong.  If there is just cause for a war (like the 'real' war on terror) then I am behind it all the way.  I don't think distractions contribute to winning a war.

I think Americans are obsessed with war....war on poverty, drugs etc...etc...

It's the dominant paradigm (especially of those who have served, understandably) that war is the solution. 

When war is hammered into the heads of a people, it's no wonder their only hammer is war. 

[quote=dude]  Also it demonstrates an ignorance of the way the Vietnamese viewed the war.  [/quote]

Ask the million+ Vietnamese who tried to leave on rickty boat or who "attended" re-education camps after we broke faith with them and ran how they viewed it....

[quote=dude] Frankly, I'm not all too excited that a bunch of crusty old has beens suckled on the nipple of warmongering and falsly induced fears ...[/quote]

Right, that hole in the ground in NYC, that was just some remodeling gone wrong, and the people who did it, they didn't mean it. All's forgiven, they say....

 [quote=dude]  I think it's a good thing that some of us actually think, unlike the generations past.  [/quote]

With all due respect, dude, the conspiracy stuff you continue to bring up here doesn't pass for "thought"...

[quote=dude] What I lack in experience, I make up for in my advisors.[/quote]

Let me guess, the black helicopter guys, right?

[quote=dude]

[quote=joedabrkr]Hear Hear Babs....I'm with you all the way!!!! [/quote]

Fine Joe...you go fight the war.  I'll stay at home smiling in my garden thankful that I'm not risking my life in vain.

[/quote]

Right, dude, the Islamofascists, they're a creation of the Tri-Lateral Commission, the CFR and some of Rocekfeller's pals. Fear not, people who see the world more clearly than you will keep you safe, playing in your garden.

You can thank them later, but I suspect you won't.

Right, that hole in the ground in NYC, that was just some remodeling gone wrong, and the people who did it, they didn't mean it. All's forgiven, they say....

Reply:

Yup....Afghanistan is where we should be resolving that tragedy...not Iraq.

Let me guess, the black helicopter guys, right?

Reply:

I guess my suspicion concerning your reading comprehension has just been supported. 

Did you read the part about the Special Forces professor who served in Vietnam? 

[quote=dude]

Right, that hole in the ground in NYC, that was just some remodeling gone wrong, and the people who did it, they didn't mean it. All's forgiven, they say....

Reply:

Yup....Afghanistan is where we should be resolving that tragedy...not Iraq.

[/quote]

You might want to listen to the guys from the outfit that made that hole, they say the center front is Iraq.

Okay, I will pile on here. If I were still in the Army and leading this effort in Iraq, we would have won already!

Instead of sending our troops over there, I would have outsourced the war to North Korea in exchange for having INTC, MOT, and GE teach them how to be the next Samsung.

[quote=dude]

Let me guess, the black helicopter guys, right?

Reply:

I guess my suspicion concerning your reading comprehension has just been supported. 

Did you read the part about the Special Forces professor who served in Vietnam? 

[/quote]

I've known dozens, what's your point? You're not going to tell me he's your only advisor and that your vast interest in the conspiracy world doesn't count.

[quote=dude]

I think everyone here is missing the point....Bush is full of hot air and is densely obstinant.  He has been trumpeting that we are 'winning' in Iraq, when that is not the truth.

I don't recall Bush saying that we are 'winning' the war.  In fact it seems that he has stressed since day one that it would be a long battle and that the war was not just centered in Iraq.  "This war will be difficult, this war will be long, and this war will end in the defeat of the terrorists and totalitarians and a victory for the cause of freedom and liberty." And don't give me that "mission accomplished' BS either.  Tommy Franks, not Bush, that made the banner and he didn't meant mission accomplished as if the struggle was over.  They meant that they had accomplished the mission of removing Sadaam.   The MSM and Democrats always want to spin to the lowest common denominator.  No one in their right mind thought that we were done and could just waltz on home and smell the roses.

My point is that there should be no war in Iraq.  The real front for the war on terror should be Afghanistan.  Iraq is a DISTRACTION from the war on terror.

Really? Says you. Ok then... lets just bomb the ever loving crap out of Afganistan.  Then what?  The problem with you and people like you is that it is a black and white world...either/or.   I'm sorry to inform you, the war on terror is everywhere. The terrorists are operating all over the world and not in some designated spot.  They are operating without uniforms, and without one nation backing them like in previous wars where we could identify the enemy.  This is why trying to apply the Geneva Conventions (an antique set of rules) to a modern, underground, mobile and invisible army is impossible.  The same reason that we can't treat the terrorists as if they were petty criminals with habeus corpus.  This is a struggle of civilizations and not like any war we have ever had before. 

Some here are boxing me into a corner where I don't belong.  If there is just cause for a war (like the 'real' war on terror) then I am behind it all the way.  I don't think distractions contribute to winning a war.

Really again?  How do you feel about profiling people like the "flying Imams" and refusing to allow them access to public transportation until they can prove that they pose no threat?   How about disbanding the Muslim schools in New York City that are teaching nothing but the Koran and hatred, creating the next generation of terrorists right in the US.  

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/local/story/71199p-66134c.ht ml

Maybe you would approve of barring Muslim clerics in our prison systems who are recruiting career criminals to become part of the war on terror and fueling their arlready considerable violence and hatred? Are you behind a system that would track immigrants to the US and immediately deport those that are here illegally or who have outstayed their visas?  How about screening and eliminating visas and immigrants from countries that have harbored known terrorists.  How about, for God's sake, securing our own borders and knowing who is coming into the country?  Why not have a National Identity Card that is standardized from State to State so employers can know who they are dealing with.   Should we not intercept communications from spies and traitors who are planning to do harm to the population and be allowed to act with expediency to stop them, instead of spending months in the court system.  No????  thought not.

I think Americans are obsessed with war....war on poverty, drugs etc...etc...

It's the dominant paradigm (especially of those who have served, understandably) that war is the solution. 

When war is hammered into the heads of a people, it's no wonder their only hammer is war. 

I agree the War on Terror, War on Drugs, War on Transfat etc soon become meaningless mantras.  But, when people are trying to kill us and do us harm, if we don't fight back we might as well just commit sepiku right now.  Personally, I'm not much of a pacifist and don't feel like suicide in this lifetime.  If you want to be a pacifist.....fine.   Just don't get in my way when I try to protect myself and my family.

[quote=dude]

[quote=joedabrkr]Hear Hear Babs…I’m with you all the way!!! [/quote]

Fine Joe...you go fight the war.  I'll stay at home smiling in my garden thankful that I'm not risking my life in vain.

http://powerlineblog.com/archives/016122.php

What Gates really said in writing to the Armed Services Committee......not what you wish he had said.

[quote=babbling looney]

http://powerlineblog.com/archives/016122.php

What Gates really said in writing to the Armed Services Committee......not what you wish he had said.

[/quote]

Yeah, that's a fair and balanced source.  Hah!

[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=dude]

[quote=joedabrkr]Hear Hear Babs....I'm with you all the way!!!! [/quote]

Fine Joe...you go fight the war.  I'll stay at home smiling in my garden thankful that I'm not risking my life in vain.

[/quote]

Just curious dude...where were you on 9/11? I mean exactly how far from Ground Zero.

How many people did you know who died?  How many of them were close friends?

How many hours did you sleep worrying about the safety of your family, or thinking about how you would get away from the center of the city if there was another attack?
[/quote]

Oh, Ok and that's good logic to go and bomb Iraq?  You're a lemming sprewing predictable excuses for an action which is clearly being exposed as a failure and diversion from the true cause of 911 in Afghanistan/Pakistan.  His name is Osama Bin Laden not Saddam Hussein.  I find the logic to invade Iraq and how it was executed as complete horse sh*t. 

If you were really concerned about those people who died, you'd want our resources to be focused on getting the culprit right?

I mean if someone killed a family member would you try to go after one of his inlaws who didn't have much relation to the killer?  Would you focus exponentially more financial resource and energy on persuing someone who had nothing to do with the murder?

I would focus all my energy on getting the culprit.  That, to me is truly caring about those poor souls on 911.  If you don't understand that logic Joe, you are a brainwashed lemming bro.

[quote=dude][quote=babbling looney]

http://powerlineblog.com/archives/016122.php

What Gates really said in writing to the Armed Services Committee......not what you wish he had said.

[/quote]

Yeah, that's a fair and balanced source.  Hah!

[/quote]

What? You don't think the written statement by Gates to the Armed Services Committee iin the Senate in response to their advance questions prior to his appearance before them, is not fair and balanced?  Prey tell, what would be more accurate than the words from the horse's mouth....so to speak.

The truth is that we handed the responsiblity for Afghanistan over to NATO....what a f*cking joke! 

Iraq is taking resource away from finding the killer.  Quit being stupid, we aren't going to make any friends by de-stabalizing the region (which is exactly what a war in Iraq is doing and was known in advance that there was a high risk of a sectarian civil war).

Now we are going to have to negotiate with Syria and Iran to transition out of the area (based on the Iraq study group findings).

We should have never been sidetracked if we wanted to catch the killer.

[quote=babbling looney][quote=dude][quote=babbling looney]

http://powerlineblog.com/archives/016122.php

What Gates really said in writing to the Armed Services Committee......not what you wish he had said.

[/quote]

Yeah, that's a fair and balanced source.  Hah!

[/quote]

What? You don't think the written statement by Gates to the Armed Services Committee iin the Senate in response to their advance questions prior to his appearance before them, is not fair and balanced?  Prey tell, what would be more accurate than the words from the horse's mouth....so to speak.

[/quote]

I'm not commenting on his words which are valid and I thank you for the link.  It was the commentary of the source that I found amusing.  That's all.  Sorry for any confusion.

If you were really concerned about those people who died, you'd want our resources to be focused on getting the culprit right?

You do realize that there is more than "one" culprit and that it is an amorphous group of people comprising people from all nations across the world, including the USA?

This fixation that if we only got this one guy, then everything will be roses and butterflies again is ridiculous.   Trying to catch these guys is like squeezing a rubber glove full of jello.  Squish one place the the jello expands into another.  We need to concentrate on the whole glove, not just the middle finger.

[quote=dude]

The truth is that we handed the responsiblity for Afghanistan over to NATO....what a f*cking joke!  [/quote]

When we go it "alone" (of course the other countries with us in Iraq would disagree) we're wrong, when we go with allies (as in Afghanistan from the beginning) we're wrong.

At least we know what we always are....

[quote=dude] You're a lemming sprewing predictable excuses....[/quote]

What was that about "over-reacting" again? That's the end of this thread for me, gang...

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=dude]

The truth is that we handed the responsiblity for Afghanistan over to NATO....what a f*cking joke!  [/quote]

When we go it "alone" (of course the other countries with us in Iraq would disagree) we're wrong, when we go with allies (as in Afghanistan from the beginning) we're wrong.

At least we know what we always are....

[/quote]

As usual I don't understand a word you're saying since it doesn't apply to my perceptions. 

[quote=mikebutler222]

[quote=dude] You're a lemming sprewing predictable excuses....[/quote]

What was that about "over-reacting" again? That's the end of this thread for me, gang...

[/quote]

Peace be with you.