Working at wirehouse a-la MorgStan vs no-name indy

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Oct 23, 2009 12:36 pm

i'm currently working at a small independent BD. just got my licenses and now i'm opening an agreed upon number of account for my boss, before taking the next step. basically, the job right now amounts to telemarketing for below-minimum wage, and i was wondering if it was very different working at a big wirehouse like Morgan Stanley. what is it like starting out at a place like that? What kind of base salaries do they offer rookies? Does it also involve cold-calling all day and virtually nothing else? Responses will be much appreciated.

Oct 23, 2009 12:44 pm

You  maybe  recieving better training where you are. The OSJ is accountable for your new accounts. His license and reputation is on the line if he lets you screw up!  SO he will be holding your hand more., maybe!




A wire house is just dump and pump into what ever crap they are pushing that week or month.
Your only training would be how to dial the phone for out bound calls, and the pep rally for there new products.
 
You are not missing anything at a wirehouse.
Oct 23, 2009 1:02 pm

Thanks, i appreciate the insight. which wirehouse/s have you had experience with? I'm asked to work about 55-60 hour weeks where I'm at by the way.. I imagine the average FA at a MSSB basically works 9-5?

Oct 23, 2009 6:19 pm
AGEMAN:
twoeyeguy:

Thanks, i appreciate the insight. which wirehouse/s have you had experience with? I'm asked to work about 55-60 hour weeks where I'm at by the way.. I imagine the average FA at a MSSB basically works 9-5?

It honestly sounds like you have a raw deal.  I can't speak to what the training programs are like now since some have shut them down, but it seems you are being used to build someone else's book of business.  Here is what you could expect in a training program with a wire.
 
A salary for a year or two of 30-75k.  Plus commission in some cases and in others only to the degree that your commission exceeds the salary do you get it.
 
You are building your own book of business
 
You would have goals and benchmarks in order to keep your job
 
 
Sounds like you should check out a bank program or a wire if what you are saying is accurate.


Would have to agree with AGE on maybe exploring other situations.  Not sure right now about going to a wirehouse since I cant see how they would hire you given the state of the industry.  If you are putting in 60 hours and not seeing something out of your efforts I would say you may end up on the short end of the stick.
 
If you like it and your results are ok, I would insist on split of the accounts you open.  If you are doing well and he is a stand up person would think he would agree to split.  If he does not want to or wants to stall that is your sign to leave.
Oct 23, 2009 7:01 pm
twoeyeguy:

Thanks, i appreciate the insight. which wirehouse/s have you had experience with? I'm asked to work about 55-60 hour weeks where I'm at by the way.. I imagine the average FA at a MSSB basically works 9-5?

 
Greenbacks knows nothing about life at a wirehouse, other than the fact that he'd never be hired at one.
Oct 23, 2009 7:11 pm

What is your deal regarding accounts? How many? Does size matter?

 
What happens after you open that many accounts are you on your own?
Oct 23, 2009 7:36 pm
Greenbacks:

You  maybe  recieving better training where you are. The OSJ is accountable for your new accounts. His license and reputation is on the line if he lets you screw up!  SO he will be holding your hand more., maybe!




A wire house is just dump and pump into what ever crap they are pushing that week or month.
Your only training would be how to dial the phone for out bound calls, and the pep rally for there new products.
 
You are not missing anything at a wirehouse.



I cant believe people still think this way, that was in the 90's. case in point MSSB just sold their fund biz because advisers wouldn't do it for fear of pushing proprietary stuff.

At UBS I have never seen pressure to have advisors "push" anything other than pushing them to grow their business.

Oct 23, 2009 11:22 pm

after the set amount most trainees enter into a partnership with their senior brokers whereby they open account and the senior trades them and raises money, and commissions are split.

Oct 23, 2009 11:27 pm
twoeyeguy:

after the set amount most trainees enter into a partnership with their senior brokers whereby they open account and the senior trades them and raises money, and commissions are split.

 
What?? That is a terrible deal. What kind of b/d is this?
Oct 23, 2009 11:37 pm

well.. you dont have to go that route, u can go off on your own instead but i i'm not sure if youd get a salary.. now that it think about it, it does kind of sound weak. what would it take to get a job at a wirehouse? would a 4 year degree (unrelated study field), and necessary licenses be enough to be considered?

Oct 24, 2009 11:11 am

i know my local MSSB branch is having a meet-n-greet coming up... think i'll go check it out. i think thats the only wire hiring here right now.

Oct 25, 2009 10:53 am

If you are already licensed and pass the "personality" and math tests, I'm sure you can get hired at wirehouse firm.  I can't imagine you getting a salary much higher than $40k, which will be gone in 18-24 months.  My mind works based on fee-based business, which means at the end of your salary, you would need to have $15m in wrapped assets to make approximately $50k.

You did say one thing that caught my attention.  "I'm assuming guys at MSSB work 9-5".  That is wishful thinking.  I started in the business w/ Prudential Securities right out of college (11 years ago) and my schedule for the first 3 years was cold call from 8:30-12 and then from 1-5 and then from 6:30-8:30.  I was making 500 dials a day at my peak.  Obviously, that schedule gets modified once you start going on appointments, but from what it sounds like, your current BD is at least teaching you the proper work ethic.  I can't tell you how many FAs that were hired after me, who just sat there waiting for the phone to ring.  That won't cut it.  Good luck!

Oct 25, 2009 1:17 pm

Thanks mrclutch, that is roughly what my schedule looks like, only difference being I don't get a livable salary to go along. One more Q: suppose you don't meet quota eventually and get the boot after 12-24 months.. the book you built at that time is transferable, right? There nothing funny in the contract that keeps you from taking those early clients with you to the next BD?

Oct 25, 2009 1:25 pm
Greenbacks:

A wire house is just dump and pump into what ever crap they are pushing that week or month.

Your only training would be how to dial the phone for out bound calls, and the pep rally for there new products.
 
You are not missing anything at a wirehouse.
 
How's life as a clueless fool? You do mean "their" right?
Oct 25, 2009 3:32 pm

30mm first 3 years is damn impressive, any tips? did you just do a a lot of cold calling or anything a little more creative than that?

Oct 25, 2009 4:16 pm

If you join a wire training program, you will have to sign a non solicit that legally prevents you from contacting your clients for one year after you leave. It is rarely enforced these days if you handle it properly, but its a risk you take.

Oct 25, 2009 5:50 pm
Sportsfreakbob:

If you join a wire training program, you will have to sign a non solicit that legally prevents you from contacting your clients for one year after you leave. It is rarely enforced these days if you handle it properly, but its a risk you take.

 
Can't be enforced in a right to work state. Instead they make you pay back training costs. They wont bother enforcing it if you're a wash out but if you move for a nice check they'll get every penny. This is almost always taken care of firm to firm.
Oct 25, 2009 7:50 pm
Gaddock:
Sportsfreakbob:

If you join a wire training program, you will have to sign a non solicit that legally prevents you from contacting your clients for one year after you leave. It is rarely enforced these days if you handle it properly, but its a risk you take.

 
Can't be enforced in a right to work state. Instead they make you pay back training costs. They wont bother enforcing it if you're a wash out but if you move for a nice check they'll get every penny. This is almost always taken care of firm to firm.
Are you sure about that Gaddock? The contract that i signed was a non solicit, which is different than a non compete. A non compete basically says you cant work in the profession within a certain geographic location.  You might be right, but its an important distinction.
 
I left my wire after 10 years, i had a non solicit, went Indie, non protocol, took all my clients, they left me alone. I think with all the challenges and lawsuits the wires have lost, they dont go after you unless they have clear proof that you took non public info that violates privacy laws.
Oct 25, 2009 8:00 pm
Sportsfreakbob:
Gaddock:
Sportsfreakbob:

If you join a wire training program, you will have to sign a non solicit that legally prevents you from contacting your clients for one year after you leave. It is rarely enforced these days if you handle it properly, but its a risk you take.

 
Can't be enforced in a right to work state. Instead they make you pay back training costs. They wont bother enforcing it if you're a wash out but if you move for a nice check they'll get every penny. This is almost always taken care of firm to firm.
Are you sure about that Gaddock? The contract that i signed was a non solicit, which is different than a non compete. A non compete basically says you cant work in the profession within a certain geographic location.  You might be right, but its an important distinction.
 
I left my wire after 10 years, i had a non solicit, went Indie, non protocol, took all my clients, they left me alone. I think with all the challenges and lawsuits the wires have lost, they dont go after you unless they have clear proof that you took non public info that violates privacy laws.
 
That's how it is in my state or at least that's what our lawyer told us at the time. I had an explicit non compete non solicit etc etc with Mutual of Omaha. When I left they threatened, stamped their feet etc. etc. If they would have had their way I would have never worker anywhere for life. At the end of the day it was worthless. I figured that's why they started to include the training payback feature. They could and would have imposed it.
 
BUT BUT BUT This is after all idle chat on  an anonymous BBS in cyberspace. Give what a person writes here its proper weight, that of a feather. I'll bet the guy in the legal forum will have a good answer.
Nov 3, 2009 8:40 am
Greenbacks:



A wire house is just dump and pump into what ever crap they are pushing that week or month.
Your only training would be how to dial the phone for out bound calls, and the pep rally for there new products.
 
You are not missing anything at a wirehouse.
 
That's how they did it at the wirehouse that realized you're an idiot and dumped you?