Why I quit Part VII

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Apr 7, 2007 10:55 am

I will admit VI was weak, but here comes the heat. If you are easily offended, NO NOT READ.



When I looked at my peers, I was scared to death. Few were making huge bank. None sent there kids to elite colleges. I was always scared by who they asked me to recuit. Teachers, coaches, new college grads. People that would be so happy to make 80k a year and never look at the man behind the curtain. Take a serious look at the people in your region and ask yourself if you would let your family's future rest with this person. The biggest producers are still working like crazy. Ever notice the big producers always turn over. No one sustains at the top ten level? Not because the numbers are so high, because the work is so endless. Every business text in the would says hire people smarter than you are, EDJ seems to do the opposite. Hire people over there heads and guilt them into thinking they should work there ass off and you will be taken care of. No college degree, OK you can take care of people financial future. Got laid off your last job in a downsize, you can advise others.(makes me think of the Army and there treatment at Walter Reed latly.)



How many brokers have you seen trying to sell door to door in a winter storm? A call list from vacation or a hospital room? It is a sales job, not a money management profession position. Doctor, my erection drug is better than his erection drug! Did you enjoy the Slurpee I bought you! Please buy from me! I would rather have one 500k producer with class than 5 100k ones. EDJ seems to think otherwise. It was interesting how many Jones brokers did not carry business cards with there family because they did not want to come off as a pushy salesman. Not really proud of what they do.



Apr 7, 2007 2:02 pm

WHAT are you talking about?? Do you realize how many goober 100K

gross independants I have run into? How many wirehouse brokers don't

make it after 6 months? How many advisors doing sleazy sales dinners

with over-priced EIA's for 75 year olds?



You know, sometimes people gotta look in the mirror. It's not always

about the firm. You make your career, your reputation, your living, based

on YOU, not the FIRM. If you don't, you'll fail. Period.   There are good

and bad brokers in EVERY channel.   It has NOTHING to do with the firm.

NOTHING. Do you think every broker that doesn't work for Jones got an

MBA from Harvard???



And by the way, the big producers in my region work 3-4 days a week,

until about 4:00.



Yes, EDJ does some goofy things. But do you have a better idea of how to

get started from scratch? I am not defending Jones here. I could care

less what you think. I just think you are a major loser, and will be selling

lawnmowers at Sears in 2 years.



Get off your soapbox, Eyore, and do some real business. You are one sad

sack.



Sorry to everyone else for the rant.

Apr 7, 2007 5:33 pm
Broker24:



You make your career, your reputation, your living, based
on YOU, not the FIRM. If you don't, you'll fail. Period.   There are good
and bad brokers in EVERY channel.   It has NOTHING to do with the firm.
NOTHING.


Try telling this to your Regional Leader and see how he/she reacts.

Apr 8, 2007 10:59 am

Yes! Sears mower salesman. Now your thinking the Jones way. I heard Kmart is doing some layoffs. Should we do a recuiting dinner and let them know about the Jones opportunity? The core problem is you and Jones associate big commissions with success. Not once was there an award, discussion or inkling of superior portfolio managment or risk management. If interest rates are going up what should we do? Buy more ICA. What about Dem coming into power? Buy more ICA. My company stock has gone up dramtically, what should we do. Of course you should sell it and you should buy more ICA. (sub in CIB for ICA at will)

Apr 8, 2007 11:35 am

Wow, I have to admit I am intrigued by your preamble, but please, STL if you are done with Jones go somewhere else. I and many others have and are pissed we didn't do it earlier.


If you are too new to start on your own, partner with someone more experienced. If you are capable on your own, then start interviewing firms.


Enough already.

Apr 8, 2007 12:19 pm
STL Sucks:

Yes! Sears mower salesman. Now your thinking the Jones way. I heard Kmart is doing some layoffs. Should we do a recuiting dinner and let them know about the Jones opportunity? The core problem is you and Jones associate big commissions with success. Not once was there an award, discussion or inkling of superior portfolio managment or risk management. If interest rates are going up what should we do? Buy more ICA. What about Dem coming into power? Buy more ICA. My company stock has gone up dramtically, what should we do. Of course you should sell it and you should buy more ICA. (sub in CIB for ICA at will)


I echo Broker24.... Why equate everything that is wrong in your world with your broker dealer?? The reason is that you are a moron. Grow up and understand ultimately you and you alone are responsible for your own success....  The last thing that I will ever do is equate commissions with success. I disagree with Broker24 on where you will utimately land.. I say that you will move back to your parent's house you little small minded child.

Apr 8, 2007 3:57 pm

How many Ed Jones reps are at the Masters right now?

Apr 8, 2007 7:59 pm
STL Sucks:

How many Ed Jones reps are at the Masters right now?


Actually, a few of them mentioned they saw you running sandwiches to Tiger.

Apr 8, 2007 8:24 pm
STL Sucks:

Yes! Sears mower salesman. Now your thinking the Jones way. I heard Kmart is doing some layoffs. Should we do a recuiting dinner and let them know about the Jones opportunity? The core problem is you and Jones associate big commissions with success. Not once was there an award, discussion or inkling of superior portfolio managment or risk management. If interest rates are going up what should we do? Buy more ICA. What about Dem coming into power? Buy more ICA. My company stock has gone up dramtically, what should we do. Of course you should sell it and you should buy more ICA. (sub in CIB for ICA at will)


You are completely and utterly lost. I actually mean this in all sincerety - if this is really your attitude, you will probably be in for a real rude awakening wherever you decide to go.  You can be successful anywhere, at any firm, in any industry - even MORE SO in this industry, since you have so much latitude to do your own thing.  If you think that it is all roads paved in gold everywhere else, and that it will be SO easy, and SO much better, you are probably going to be in a lot of trouble.  I may not have decades of experience in this industry yet, but I have witnessed many kids like you over the years (I am just assuming you are young based on your attitude) in my previous career.  Always complaining, always wanting something for nothing, looking for the easy road, it's sombody elses fault, can't see the forest for the trees, and you always seem to get the raw deal.  If you think you are going to leave and go indy and be half as successful as some of the other indy brokers on this board, think again.  Chances are they got there through hard work; they didn't bitch and moan and spend all day online wimpering anonymously about the tragedy that is their life at Jones or wherever they used to be.


By the way, if you are so preoccupied with selling ICA, why don't you just sell something else?  Find something that motivates you and go with it.

Apr 9, 2007 10:53 am
STL Sucks:

How many Ed Jones reps are at the Masters right now?


Do you mean playing or watching? Probably about the same amount as LPL, RJ, Morgan, Merrill, AGE, et al.  There were a bunch of Jones brokers at the Final Four tourney this year (diversification trip.)  I'll bet there will be some at the Indy 500.  There were a bunch at the World Series in STL last year too.  I'm still trying to figure out what Jones broker's attendance at major sporting events has anything to do with your like or dislike of Jones as a whole?  Other than your rationalization and justification in your own mind of leaving.


I do look at the vets in my area.  My RL is a workaholic, but his 4 month rolling is at about $50K on about $80-85 mil AUM.  Just over 10 years out.  Yeah, I'd hate to be him. 


Another has been in the biz 27 years.  Paid for his kid to go to a top school in the country.  Bought him a nice car when he graduated.  Works hard but plays harder.  4 month rolling - $40K.  AUM of $100 mil+.  Not really interested in brining in a lot of new assets.  Sucks to be him. 


Third has been here for 20 years.  Works from 8-3 everyday and goes home.  Sells a lot of American Funds and tax free bonds.  Clients love him.  Very simple man making a great living keeping things simple for his clients.  His 4 month rolling is at $40K too.  AUM also over $100 mil.  How can he live with himself? 


We have 27 FAs in our region out more than 5 years.  All but 4 are on track to hit $250K this year based on their 4 month rolling.  Half of those should hit between $300K and $350K.  I'm sure all of them get offers constantly from other firms.  They found something they like at Jones and decided to stay.  I'm convinced that they would be successful anywhere they decided to build their businesses.


You know why the big producers always turn over?  Because it is a cyclical business.  Life happens, get's in the way of business.  Markets change.  Brokers have to have a little down time.  But, I'll bet if you looked at a list of the Managing Partners Conference attendees every year you'd see a lot of the same people.  Tiger may not win the Masters every year, but he'll be in the hunt.


I think this excuse for you leaving Jones is as lame as the other ones.  That you would even consider basing your success on someone else's success or failure is just sad.  Good luck at Sears.   




Apr 9, 2007 12:06 pm

Good comments Spiff.


" But, I'll bet if you looked at a list of the Managing Partners Conference attendees every year you'd see a lot of the same people."


The 3 I knew that when to MPC were all GP's. Which I believe is a good reason to stay on board with Jones.

Apr 9, 2007 1:33 pm

I like reading this.  Sorry, but firms like EDJ and Ameriprise are just not honest with people.


Besides, I think it makes him feel better.

Apr 9, 2007 11:51 pm

Me doth think thee protest too much! Or a better example, for the STL clones: Think of me like Bob Gibson, throwing the heat high and tight. I own this plate. I dare you to charge the mound. A better question might be of your 27 reps out five years or more minus the five "others", how many have spouses that work? BTW if you are out 27 years you SHOULD have 40k+ rolling four! Remember I was a partner. I have skills, and now I have the bills!

Apr 10, 2007 9:12 am

Space,


You're a smart guy and I have a hard time understanding why anyone producing over $250k would stay...using just math.  Forget all the other stuff...everything being equal, why not make 50% more (that number could be much higher) running your business exactly the same way?  Why not have an asset that if you retire or die, can be sold at some value rather than give it back to the firm.


Notice that I didn't bash Jones for one second but I'd like to hear what any BD brings to the table to justify their 60%.  BD's are providing a service to the broker some are more expensive than others.  Jones brokers are good folks that run their businesses in an ethical manner...why not be a real owner and give yourself a 50% raise?


I'd love to hear your reasons for staying.  I was there and I just don't get it...the math alone suggests after $250k in production, it's time to move on.  Spiff, could you share your reasons for staying?

Apr 10, 2007 9:16 am
uwec86:

Space,


You're a smart guy and I have a hard time understanding why anyone producing over $250k would stay...using just math.  Forget all the other stuff...everything being equal, why not make 50% more (that number could be much higher) running your business exactly the same way?  Why not have an asset that if you retire or die, can be sold at some value rather than give it back to the firm.


Notice that I didn't bash Jones for one second but I'd like to hear what any BD brings to the table to justify their 60%.  BD's are providing a service to the broker some are more expensive than others.  Jones brokers are good folks that run their businesses in an ethical manner...why not be a real owner and give yourself a 50% raise?


I'd love to hear your reasons for staying.  I was there and I just don't get it...the math alone suggests after $250k in production, it's time to move on.  Spiff, could you share your reasons for staying?



Uwec you have a different perspective than Spiff because (I presume) you have been an advisor for quite some time.  Spiff was in home office for a while and while he seems to be doing well has not been an advisor for too many years.  (No offense Spiff.)

There is a point where someone is ready to take the leap, and sees the numbers and the other work involved in a new light.  There are many people who are never ready.  It doesn't make them wrong, just that they are less willing to take the risks involved.  Perhaps they have a more acute perception of them than we do.

I get what you're saying though.  I had lunch a while ago with a friend from their old office....one who produces about 50% more than I.  Listening to them with the same old laundry list of complaints and gossip, I wondered why they continued to put up with it.  They talked about how maybe they could take a check and move to another frying pan, and I wondered "What are you thinking?  Do you really expect it to be any different?"

Apr 10, 2007 9:52 am

Joedabrkr,


Every firm has its issues but it is much easier to put up with them if I pay 10 - 15% for that service vs. 60%...it changes the mindset.  When you get down to it, the FA builds and maintains the business not the BD. 


To me, its a no brainer...you work extremely hard for 30 - 60 days to move your book and then you go back to doing business the same way you always did but get paid a lot more without charging the client a penny more and you have an asset you can sell.  I just don't see the big risk in moving.  If you can make a living at 40% payout, you sure can at 60 - 70% (after expenses)!  Jones is a great place to start but I'd still love to hear why people stay after they get to $250k...I just don't get it.  Some please educate me.

Apr 10, 2007 10:09 am

I left last fall, and my net (after all expenses)is significantly higher than it was at Jones already. They taught me well and now I can say just like uwec did, there is a much better life outside. I would recommend it to anyone at Jones who met their targets starting from scratch.


If you can hunt at Jones, you can do it anywhere with any firm. What Jones does very well, is teach you to become independent.


Apr 10, 2007 10:37 am
uwec86:

Joedabrkr,


Every firm has its issues but it is much easier to put up with them if I pay 10 - 15% for that service vs. 60%...it changes the mindset.  When you get down to it, the FA builds and maintains the business not the BD. 


To me, its a no brainer...you work extremely hard for 30 - 60 days to move your book and then you go back to doing business the same way you always did but get paid a lot more without charging the client a penny more and you have an asset you can sell.  I just don't see the big risk in moving.  If you can make a living at 40% payout, you sure can at 60 - 70% (after expenses)!  Jones is a great place to start but I'd still love to hear why people stay after they get to $250k...I just don't get it.  Some please educate me.



Believe me I hear what you're saying.  I'm happily indy and the end of next month is my 2 year anniversary.

It's like they don't believe it could be that good....

Apr 10, 2007 10:41 am
STL Sucks:

Me doth think thee protest too much! Or a better example, for the STL clones: Think of me like Bob Gibson, throwing the heat high and tight. I own this plate. I dare you to charge the mound. A better question might be of your 27 reps out five years or more minus the five "others", how many have spouses that work? BTW if you are out 27 years you SHOULD have 40k+ rolling four! Remember I was a partner. I have skills, and now I have the bills!


OK,  you lost me.  What does having a spouse that works have to do with this conversation?  I've not been in the field for more than five years yet and my spouse doesn't work.  But that's a personal choice because we believe our kids are more important than money and I'd rather have my wife at home with my kids than making $30K a year as a teacher. 


If you weren't aware, some women or men like to work whether they have to or not.  In my region some are teachers, some run businesses, one is even an evil GP.  That has nothing to do with their spouse's net, but more with their own personal satisfaction.  And maybe a decision about kids or family that supercedes any monetary gain.   


Actually when I look at the list it's probably a 50/50 split.  And of the 27 I don't have any idea of how many of their spouses really need to work vs want to work.  This arguement is as lame as the beginning of this thread. 


Hey, STL...do you hear that?  That's the sound of the crack of my bat.  You better look over your shoulder quick because the next sound you hear is going to be the fans going crazy cause the ball just left the park.      


Apr 10, 2007 11:00 am

Joe - you're right, I've not been in the field a long time.  No offense taken. 


Uwec - I respect your desire to be independant.  Jones does make a good training ground for people to go independant.  But not everyone wants to.  Maybe it's not worth the extra headaches for them.   


There are some benefits to belonging to a big firm whether it be Jones, Amex, Morgan, Merrill, or any of the others.  Advertising, recognition, market share, borrowed credibility.  Not to mention everything that goes on in the back office.  I'll bet some people stay at Jones simply for the diversification trips (regardless of how much you pay in taxes).  How about company stock or employer matching on a 401K?  How about group health care benefits?  How about just having a buddy from the same firm around the corner or in the office next door? 


Money is great.  I like it a lot.  I'd be lying if I said I didn't come to the field partly for the money.  I think when you ONLY focus on the money and not everything else in life you start to get jaded.  I don't want to have to worry about learning new compliance laws or HR issues.  I don't want to have to go out buy a new computer every so often and then hassle with making sure all the files transfer.  I don't want to have to haggle with the landlord over my rent. 


Yes, there is life outside of the wirehouses/regionals.  But don't make it sound like we have it all that bad.