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Jan 23, 2009 9:34 pm

UBS





your thoughts now?

future of firm?

buying all these FA's?

selling out?



Jan 24, 2009 8:27 am

Jan 24, 2009 9:20 am

Some quick thoughts about UBS.....


-UBS Inv Bank isn't worth anything. They can't sell it. They are shrinking it on a daily basis. (exited munis, ARCS, other fixed income trading, there is little inventory for decent bonds). The IB jacks up their commission on the decent bonds.  They provide very little value to painewebber FAs.
-They just locked up 1000+ New UBS FA's for 7 to 9 year deals.
-It is well known that they shopped the Painewebber division in September 08. It sounds like they are shopping it again.
-All Level 5 FAs will be gone mid-year 09.
-Right now the firm "looks good" when compared to your choices
-Morale among UBS veterans is low.
-New UBS Comp plan was marketed as "everyone doing 400+ will get a raise".  When in fact it will stayed the same, or decrease because of the no payout on under $100 equity ticket and no payout on accounts under $50,000.  If you are doing under $400k, you are getting screwed.  They are basically saying to go elsewhere.
-They force structured products down your throat.
-The tiered money market should be illegal
 -As for why UBS has had the biggest deals.  I think they realized that they had an opportunity because of everything going on with the other firms. I think they wanted to bring in a lot of FAs with good numbers, so the whole firm looks good, then sell it.
-Sen mgmt doesn't listen to FAs.
-The firm has always been just following the practices of other firms, there is no innovation
 
On the positive side...
-Good open architecture fee based program, access to good money managers, private equity, hedge funds, etc...
-Technology is ok
-? nothing else that stands out from the competitors
Jan 24, 2009 12:50 pm

Why anyone over LOS 3 and doing over 300K production would stay at any Wirehouse is beyond me...you could be Indy and offer the same services and products, you can shop around the indy BD for the best technology and the Wirehouse's reputations are in the toilet!!!...so what exactly do they do for their 50% of the grid??? ...pay the electricity, rent and telephone!!!...C'MON!!!!

Jan 24, 2009 3:14 pm

Shot - Did you see any news reports on UBS USWM (Painewebber) being put up for sale again?

 
ABOM - Have you heard anything of this?
 
I cannot see it happening. What firm would be left to buy them? Who would want to buy them with all of the long term committments made to new FA's that were just brought over?
 
 
What constitutes a level 5 at UBS?
Thanks
Jan 24, 2009 3:22 pm

cppr33...

Heard it from management
Those long term committments are WHY a firm would be a buyer.  1/3 of the top producers are already locked up and paid for.
Wells Fargo may be a suitor.  WFC wanted to be a first-tier firm, but with BAC/ML and MS/SB, they are now a second tier firm. With purchase of PaineWebber, they move closer to competing with them.
Level depends on McLagan ranks...looks at LOS, assets, revenue. Basically if you've been in the business 5+ plus doing under $300-250k.
Jan 24, 2009 3:38 pm

"wells fargo may be a suitor" 

 
Are you joking, they have no desire to be in the brokerage business.
Jan 24, 2009 5:26 pm

Shot



from your 4 previous post you are a current or former UBS guy-



ex: your post on wheres my UBS overtime settlement



If your current your really mis-informed and have a weak branch manager, if your EX-fa than your out of touch a lot has changed and its a big reason why UBS is attracting top talent.

Jan 24, 2009 5:44 pm

Jan 24, 2009 8:40 pm

ABOM


-The new issue inventory since open arch with JP is worse then before, not an improvement. Secondary inventory is a joke.  
-Ofcourse the 1000 FA's can leave anytime (duh), but how many of them are going to go and give back 150% of T12?
-Are you telling me there is no difference in how UBS is treating level 5's this year?  I know this isn't true.
-True, the def comp is excellent, great wealth building strategy and has helped to keep some FAs in their seats.
-I think you drank too much koolaid. Please take a look at the fine print on the 2009 comp estimator sheet. It doesn't take into consider the new under $100 ticket rule and under $50k rule. Yes, some FA's will see an increase (those during over $1.5M). For everyone else it is either the same or less.  Small FA's are taking a decrease in pay.  If a Small FA did insurance they could get 38%, or 43% or up to 48%.  Now they are CAPPED at 31%-34%.  Does that sound like an increase?
-ML has been doing mortgages for 10-15 years.
-You are going to bring up open arch re: structure products?  Do you know how many clients our office lost because we opened up to LEHMAN BROTHERS SP NOTES????  I wouldn't brag about this.
-Would agree team platform is nice. It makes everyone want to be in a team.
-The 1000 recruits came over because of the check and because .... where else were they going to go?  They were looking at it as a wealth re-building strategy.
-I am a UBS FA. Don't get me wrong, the firm has its pluses. I don't plan on leaving anytime soon. But some of the other FA's out there should know the whole story about the firm.
Jan 24, 2009 8:51 pm

Shot and/or ABOM -


Are either of you hearing anything about changes to the NFAD program ala what is occuring at Merrill right now?
 
Full disclosure - I am at UBS right now in the NFAD program. I am just coming up on my first full year of production, I formed a team with a veteran FA in July and I am currently (fingers crossed) on pace to stay level 1 or 2 as of my next measurement date.
I have heard that many of those in the lower tiers of the NFAD program were dropped much earlier than they would have been in prior years. I am a little concerned due to the actions of Merrill as well as MS dropping some newer FA's in my area faster than they had in the past.
 
 
Jan 24, 2009 10:38 pm

Jan 24, 2009 10:48 pm

UBS has got to have it's own bond inventory for retail don't they?  The street offerrings on  online sources such as bondshop, bonddesk etc are terrible, there is just too many markups, (selling dealer, the platform, desk markup, and your commision) and they are terrible places to have to go for bids, especially in this market.  Having your own unique bond inventory and traders willing to put up bids is one of the only benefit big firms have over the independents.  How exactly does the muni syndicate deal work with JPM?

Jan 24, 2009 10:49 pm

Thats a good point - can any of the indy guys comment on the availablity of bond inventory at their firms? How does that work. How do you service a large muni buyer who always has bonds maturing?

Jan 24, 2009 11:48 pm

I was at Paine Weber when they were bought out by UBS. I have been at SB since then and I am considering going back. I have just started the discussions and I am a bit surprised that I would be eligible for a transition package since I had been there previously. Neither side has commited anything yet, so I am not sure it will all work out.

 
Overall I think UBS is the better BD, certainly since the big financial debacle. I may just wait a year or 2 and consider a different move, possibly going independent. Right now it's almost too crazy to move.
Jan 25, 2009 12:00 am
Sportsfreakbob:

Thats a good point - can any of the indy guys comment on the availablity of bond inventory at their firms? How does that work. How do you service a large muni buyer who always has bonds maturing?

 
http://www.fisbonds.com/FISBonds/PublicSite/AAMHome.aspx
 
Jan 25, 2009 12:00 am

WHat do the new deals look like comparatively?

Jan 25, 2009 8:42 am

We moved to UBS from wachovia securities in nov.

I have been in the business 14 years and as doing about 1.7mm.

We have about 90% fee based

I loved (love) WS.

I would never have thought of moving.

Im moved because i was (am) scared.

I moved because NO ONE can tell us what firms will loook like or what this business will loook like down the road.

I basically sold out for the money and for added security for my family.

I think UBS is insane giving out that kind of money in this economy.



Im sorry but the reality is that UBS is basically a joke compared to WS.

The tech and operations are a nightmare.

There is no flexibility in operations

There is no commen sense in operations or actually in anything.

The personnel are numb. its not their fault

leadership seems to be bean counters and lawyers.

actaully, there doesnt seem to be any leadership.

it reminds me of the federal govt.



We will be ok.

No firm or manager has ever giving us anything anyway

You earn what you earn in this business based on YOUR efforts

We have gotten over the majority of our clients and we will make it work

we hired a full time extra person on our own JUST to try to keep up with the crap systems and all the BS this place puts in your way.



i dont regret a thing

we are big boys

i make a choice and i will accept anything that comes our way



they couldnt get all these decent FA's without the big money

i appreciate the BOM posts here and his loyality and excitment

he is just flat wrong and probably doesnt have the perspective of what a great firm is.



final thought, we run our own business

period.



Danny Ludenman is a wonderful human being and THE BEST ALLY of the broker.    

The WS model is awesome. It is a true broker driven model.

Sadly, there is just TOO MUCH uncertainty in this business to know what ANY firm will look like. I am hoping that Danny comes out on top.



Am i a who^%$?    yes   a scared one.



UBS is a rudderless joke.    I hope we sell out.

Jan 25, 2009 8:45 am
ABOM:

Shot - just some thoughts about your "Facts" on UBS



On the IB no one can sell am IB thats why everyones in trouble!, UBS exited the underwriting of munibonds in summer of 08 and now has an open architecture agreement with JP Morgan and several regional underwritters for exclusive distribution of new issues with no mark-up to clients, they also moved 80 employees from IB back to retail.



the 1000 FA's are not locked up they can leave anytime just pay off the EFL



Prove they "Shopped" the WM business in September. Totally false. The had a 3rd party evaluate every business line they are in in September just as they do every 2 or 3 years.



All Level 5's are coached up or coached out every year.



Morale among UBS vets is low. -- well duh morale among everyone is low in this market. A big saving grace to UBS is the def. comp plan is a cash plan that has avg 10% returns due to turbo rate and not company stock.



on the comp plan its a fact that wealth management was given a raise by 140 million dollars. Every FA in my branch would have been up but 1 or 2 small FA's - most would be up 8-10%.



The tiered mmkt -- I agree with you its horrendous (every big firm does it) I hate that Sr. management grumbles about legacy FA net new money penetration being so low. when the ARCS blew up and we had tiered mmkts we lost billions in assets - Its a big money maker but at what cost?



On the big deals see my previous post, im a manager i heard that from Hoekstra himself on a conf call



Sen management does not listen to FA's -- your very wrong here. UBS has Sr. leadership is the only firm with guys that used to be FA's (Hoekstra started as an fa in south dakota! jamie price, etc..) also the new comp plan had tons of FA input.



Not an innovater? first to have team platform, first to go open architecture on structured products, mortgages, new munis etc... !



nothing stands out from competitors -- well luckily 1,000 new recruits disagree with you.





We moved to UBS from wachovia securities in nov.

I have been in the business 14 years and as doing about 1.7mm.

We have about 90% fee based

I loved (love) WS.

I would never have thought of moving.

Im moved because i was (am) scared.

I moved because NO ONE can tell us what firms will loook like or what this business will loook like down the road.

I basically sold out for the money and for added security for my family.

I think UBS is insane giving out that kind of money in this economy.



Im sorry but the reality is that UBS is basically a joke compared to WS.

The tech and operations are a nightmare.

There is no flexibility in operations

There is no commen sense in operations or actually in anything.

The personnel are numb. its not their fault

leadership seems to be bean counters and lawyers.

actaully, there doesnt seem to be any leadership.

it reminds me of the federal govt.



We will be ok.

No firm or manager has ever giving us anything anyway

You earn what you earn in this business based on YOUR efforts

We have gotten over the majority of our clients and we will make it work

we hired a full time extra person on our own JUST to try to keep up with the crap systems and all the BS this place puts in your way.



i dont regret a thing

we are big boys

i make a choice and i will accept anything that comes our way



they couldnt get all these decent FA's without the big money

i appreciate the BOM posts here and his loyality and excitment

he is just flat wrong and probably doesnt have the perspective of what a great firm is.



final thought, we run our own business

period.



Danny Ludenman is a wonderful human being and THE BEST ALLY of the broker.     

The WS model is awesome. It is a true broker driven model.

Sadly, there is just TOO MUCH uncertainty in this business to know what ANY firm will look like. I am hoping that Danny comes out on top.



Am i a who^%$?    yes   a scared one.



UBS is a rudderless joke.    I hope we sell out.

Jan 25, 2009 8:49 am




nothing stands out from competitors -- well luckily 1,000 new recruits disagree with you.[/quote]







I love your excitment and I know this will sound like a smart a$%.............



but luckily UBS was dumb enough to pay 255% of 2008 gross heading into a monster bear market.................FA's are not coming because they love ya.............we loved the Swiss franks.