UBS or EdwardJones?

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Jun 7, 2005 8:44 pm

Apologies for replicating this message.


Currently transitioning into this industry from being a management consultant and a small business owner. I'm torn between these two firms (UBS & EdwardJones) since I recently received an offer from each firm.  Although I have not applied elsewhere, I am leaning towards UBS at this point.  Any advise? For all you senior Advisors, what is the perception of UBS and EdwardJones in the marketplace?

Jun 7, 2005 9:51 pm

one's a joke and the other plays with serious money. Your job Mr. Phelps should you choose to accept is to figure out which is which (okay I watched MI & MI2 up at the cottage last week).

Jun 7, 2005 9:59 pm

Here's a hint...my first choice wouldn't be Edward Jones.


Come to think of it, none of my choices would be Edward Jones.

Jun 8, 2005 12:17 am

Chaacmool,



Both Phlyin and xej were both former Jones guys and I believe are now independent. I would take their comments with a grain of salt. Their comments towards Jones are typically always negative.



Having been at Jones for some time I am obviously biased toward Jones. I started from scratch in a town where no one knew me or Edward D. Jones & Co as we were called back then. The support I got from the home office and the investment reps in the field was great. Now a days the training is even better. You are assigned a mentor from day one.



I would say one of the main differences between Jones and the United Bank of Scotland is that with Jones you are in business for yourself but not by yourself. At UBS or any other wirehouses you tend to be a number in a cubicle and if you don't make it then "oh well we'll find some else to fill that cubicle." At jones you are the entire office. They (St Louis, your mentor, fellow IRs, your regional leader, etc.) will try very hard to do everything possible to see you succeed. Because Jones is a partnership and partnership profits are based on how the firm as a whole does, then most IRs are trying to pull the wagon together verses a wire house where you may have to literally lock your desk drawer so the rep in the next cubicle doesn't steal your client or prospect info from you when you go to lunch.



The business mix will be much different at UBS verses Jones. Jones tends to be more buy stocks, bonds and mutual funds and hold for the long term using a disciplined asset allocation model where UBS will tend to chase the High Net Worth with managed fee based accounts. I am not saying that a business can not be built on High Net Worth clients. I personally have given over 700 households away over the last several years streamlining my business to mostly High Net Worth, but to go only after High Net Worth early on can be daunting. I have seen several great individuals fail at UBS, ML and MS because of this. I can't remember how many $2,000 IRAs turned into $500,000 IRA rollovers for me. When a new guy fails at a wire house the veteran reps swarm the accounts like vultures. They love to see new people come in, collect assets and fail.



Also I very much like not having a branch manager looking over my shoulder everyday. Of course the branch manager can be a two edged sword, in other words if you get a good one great, but what if you get the branch manager from hell? It ain't fun.



Jones' clients like them. Take a look:



http://www.jdpower.com/cc/finance/ratings/full_service_inves tment/index.jsp



Also over 50% of their reps usually win very nice trips all over the world. Take a look:



http://www.jonesopportunity.com/cgi-bin/uk_event_sidenav.cgi ?template=/ir/en_GB/broker/incentives.html



Good luck with your decision. Regardless of who you select, at least you picked the best industry to work in!



BPD



________________________________________

The grass is GREENER where you water it!

Jun 8, 2005 3:25 am

BigPayDay,


You forgot to say they don't always fully disclose FACTS!    


Instead of answering questions they fire back insults.


Please don't insult our intelligence and discuss JD Power Awards ?

Jun 8, 2005 6:27 am

BigPD, UBS isn't "United Bank of Scotland"


Jun 8, 2005 7:48 am

That's our boy!  Giving career advice and doesn't know the difference between UBS and Bank of Scotland.

Jun 8, 2005 9:55 am

Thank you, NOVA and Starka.  I was going to add that myself. 


I think that is case in point.  Look at the average assets of the two firms per rep.  Do you want to run a (mostly) transactional business?  If you should decide to leave the industry, do you want to simply hand over your book?


Or, would you rather run a business that has a constant revenue stream?  And, if you leave the industry, wouldn't you like to get paid for your book?


The first scenario is EDJ, the second is almost anyone else.


Not saying EDJ is wrong for everybody, but it has its disadvantages.

Jun 8, 2005 10:56 am

I don't have an opinion on UBS but as a former Jones rep I can opine on them.  First off, I don't have a huge hate for the company (see I write in normal fonts  ), just much dissapointment in that they misrepresented themselves and their business model.    However, you as a new entrant into the financial advisory business, may like to use Jones as a stepping stone towards a more fullfilling career elsewhere.   They do give you training to obtain your Series 7 and some minimal training in selling stocks, bonds and mutual funds.  As a newbie you can start to build a client base that hopefully will be loyal to you when you finally move on.  If you do go with Jones (or anywhere else) I strongly suggest you immediately obtain additional education from outside sources.  Get a CFP, CFA, Series 63 and 66 anything to get more education than the minimal information that Jones wants you to know.


The downside is that you will use thousands of dollars of your life savings supporting yourself during your first year or so because the expenses you are obligated to pay and the low pay out from Jones will eat up your savings.  Be prepared to make less money than your office assistant in the beginning year.  If you can hang in there for several years and build good assets under management, you might be able to make it at Jones and will have a good springboard to a real career.


This may all be true of UBS, but again no opinion on them.

Jun 8, 2005 11:47 am

Just as BL has said...


EJ is has a good platform to start your biz.  But true investment strategy is not their strong point.  If you go with EJ, I would recommend (on top of building your biz) to do as much reading and/or study of various investment strategies.  Even though EJ's research has a good track record long term we were selling LU @ $54/sh and WCOM @ $39/sh.

Jun 8, 2005 1:28 pm

BigPayDay said



       At UBS or any other wirehouses you tend to be a number in a cubicle and if you don't make it then "oh well we'll find some else to fill that cubicle."





At least these firms give you a cubicle! At Jones you'll be working out of the back seat of your car for the first year & a half.

Jun 8, 2005 7:35 pm
BigPayDay:

Chaacmool,



Both Phlyin and xej were both former Jones guys and I believe are

now independent. I would take their comments with a grain of salt.

Their comments towards Jones are typically always negative.



Having been at Jones for some time I am obviously biased toward

Jones. I started from scratch in a town where no one knew me or

Edward D. Jones & Co as we were called back then. The support I got

from the home office and the investment reps in the field was great.

Now a days the training is even better. You are assigned a mentor

from day one.



I would say one of the main differences between Jones and the

United Bank of Scotland is that with Jones you are in business for

yourself but not by yourself. At UBS or any other wirehouses you

tend to be a number in a cubicle and if you don't make it then "oh

well we'll find some else to fill that cubicle." At jones you are the

entire office. They (St Louis, your mentor, fellow IRs, your regional

leader, etc.) will try very hard to do everything possible to see you

succeed. Because Jones is a partnership and partnership profits are

based on how the firm as a whole does, then most IRs are trying to

pull the wagon together verses a wire house where you may have to

literally lock your desk drawer so the rep in the next cubicle doesn't

steal your client or prospect info from you when you go to lunch.



The business mix will be much different at UBS verses Jones. Jones

tends to be more buy stocks, bonds and mutual funds and hold for

the long term using a disciplined asset allocation model where UBS

will tend to chase the High Net Worth with managed fee based

accounts. I am not saying that a business can not be built on High

Net Worth clients. I personally have given over 700 households away

over the last several years streamlining my business to mostly High

Net Worth, but to go only after High Net Worth early on can be

daunting. I have seen several great individuals fail at UBS, ML and MS

because of this. I can't remember how many $2,000 IRAs turned into

$500,000 IRA rollovers for me. When a new guy fails at a wire house

the veteran reps swarm the accounts like vultures. They love to see

new people come in, collect assets and fail.



Also I very much like not having a branch manager looking over my

shoulder everyday. Of course the branch manager can be a two

edged sword, in other words if you get a good one great, but what if

you get the branch manager from hell? It ain't fun.



Jones' clients like them. Take a look:



http://www.jdpower.com/cc/finance/ratings/full_service_inves

tment/index.jsp



Also over 50% of their reps usually win very nice trips all over the

world. Take a look:



http://www.jonesopportunity.com/cgi-bin/uk_event_sidenav.cgi

?template=/ir/en_GB/broker/incentives.html



Good luck with your decision. Regardless of who you select, at least

you picked the best industry to work in!



BPD



________________________________________

The grass is GREENER where you water it!









First off all it's the Union Bank of Switzerland get your info right.

second I left Edward Jones last year and joined UBS. I have nothing

against Edward Jones. They were very good to me. But they do not

have a fee based mutual fund program with access to over 100 fund

families and institutional shares. They do have a small Seperate

Managed account program but only have 20 managers and those

aren't taht good UBS has over 45 in one platform and over 100 in

another. At UBS you have access to Private Equity and Alternetive

Investments for your clients which EDJ does not. From what I see, I

did not go through the training program at UBS but they have a 2

year salary intensive wealth management training that EDJ has not. If

you want to go after the small accounts and dollar cost averaging

mutual fund client then EDJ is right for you if you want to build a

book of higher net worth folks then UBS, Merrill, Smith Barney would

be a good choice. The UBS technology is much better as well. Real

Time Quotes, Morningstar, Dow Jones News, and much more that

EDJ dosen't want to pay for.



I left EDJ because might client base was growing in higher networth

clients not number of accounts. They needed access to a more

sophisticated platform and UBS offers it.



But if you need hand holding or don't feel confortable talking to

higher networth folks then consider EDJ. It is not as bad a most folks

here make it out to be.

Jun 8, 2005 9:04 pm
josephjones107:

BigPayDay said

       At UBS or any other wirehouses you tend to be a number in a cubicle and if you don't make it then "oh well we'll find some else to fill that cubicle."


At least these firms give you a cubicle! At Jones you'll be working out of the back seat of your car for the first year & a half.


Jun 8, 2005 10:49 pm

JosephJones107- Wow your negativity is something to behold. Have you given thought to perhaps giving poetry recitations at your local coffee shop??? 

Jun 9, 2005 12:53 am
BrokerRecruit:

Thank you, NOVA and Starka. I was going to add that myself.



I think that is case in point. Look at the average assets of the two firms per rep. Do you want to run a (mostly) transactional business? If you should decide to leave the industry, do you want to simply hand over your book?



Or, would you rather run a business that has a constant revenue stream? And, if you leave the industry, wouldn't you like to get paid for your book?



The first scenario is EDJ, the second is almost anyone else.



Not saying EDJ is wrong for everybody, but it has its disadvantages.





Broker Recruit,



Before you can "leave the industry" you have to "make it in the industry". How many UBS reps started there? Not many, most built there business elsewhere and took the big up front check to go there. Jones can be a very good choice for a new new.



So you really think Jones reps just walk away from their book when they retire? "Here's the key, it's been fun." This is NOT the case. Most if not all successful reps will bring in a junior broker, work 1 week out of the month and get paid 50% of the commissions for as many years as they negotiate. And yes they get to keep their partnership.



And yes, The Bank of Scotland was said tongue in cheek. Laugh a little, don't take life so serious.



BPD

Jun 9, 2005 6:55 am

Life MUST be taken seriously.  (It's you that we laugh at!)

Jun 9, 2005 7:20 am

Chump Change, my present office is far closer to my home than the nearest half vacant strip mall. 


Would I have to move?

Jun 9, 2005 9:02 am

candybar,


again you seem to be taking GP courses as your comprehension really sucks.


Chaacmool stated that UBS has extended an offer. To most that is an indication that he will be brought on as a rookie that to me is an acknowledgement that UBS sees that Chaacmool has some talent and high profile prospects.  Where would Chaacmool be able to provide a "full service" to his/her clients best .... at UBS or EJ.  If any of the prospects are sophisticated and wish to (heaven forbid) write some options Chaacmool is going lose any (if not all) of their respectibility when the reply is, my firm believes that's to risky (not to mention too expensive to supervise which is the real reason EJ doesn't do options or futures), or sorry I can't email you that because my firm's communications system would crash if all the reps were given email as my firm choose the wrong technology nearly twenty years ago and has been too cheap to upgrade (that's the real reason instead of the "it's too hard to track").


Can you imagine a typical UBS type prospect going to the strip mall and park in front of the Dunkin Donut or Subway to go meet with with the EJ rep ..... they'd have to be a "real close relative".


candybar it is just as much fun to read your logic regarding selling your book.  If you want to retire at your firm and get compensation, you are advocating that the person stay on. How long will this last? according to you, for as long as the broker wants. What happens if the broker dies during this semi-retirement phase, how much will the spouse receive ???? zip, nada, bubkis, zero, nothing! At other firms it is whatever the broker was able to negotiate.


new new is that the name of the new pandas at the St.Louis Zoo.  Your firm is great for individuals who are far from some urban area and little if any real competition and area where the WSJ isn't delivered helps (since most of your firm's clients don't read it anyways, well that is what Mr. Hill told RRmag last year)


starka is correct it is you we laugh at.  I'd also like to add noggin to the laughed at list

Jun 9, 2005 4:06 pm

Sure, there is that option, BPD.  However, what if a rep wants to SELL their book to another rep?  It is my understanding that you can't at EDJ.  Not that it is a bad situation, but at least the option is there at other firms to explore both opportunities.

Jun 9, 2005 4:50 pm

Most if not all successful reps will bring in a junior broker, work 1 week out of the month and get paid 50% of the commissions for as many years as they negotiate. And yes they get to keep their partnership. 


Well....maybe.


Only as long as they don't become employed by anyone else again. At which time, they must sell their LP back to the company.