Recruiting someone from Jones

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Feb 21, 2010 6:31 pm

I have a meeting next week with someone from Jones and was wondering if any former Jones people could give me some insight into things that are lacking there that may be important to point out?

Several things I see:
1.  Lack of access to HNW prospects. 
2.  Lack of ability to build an annuitized book as easily as at other firms due to a lack of large fee based platform and their C share policy.
 
Positives to overcome:
1.  Having an assistant all to yourself.
2.  Good press
 
Any other points to consider??
Feb 21, 2010 7:47 pm

No options, no managed futures, difficult discounting, lots of sales pressure, high costs, small town "low end" image, very poor business model and so forth.

Feb 21, 2010 9:49 pm

You are recruting him to Wells?

Feb 22, 2010 12:36 am

How long has the prospect been @ Jones?  Any other experience?  I suggest you find people in your branch that successfuly and passionately use things that Jones lacks and get the two in front of each other.  Your prospect may not comprehend all that they lack - especially serving HNW clients.  Jones, while a great company, is the minor leagues.  I know Jones' system, and Well's system - get him in front of your system if you can. 

Feb 22, 2010 8:42 am
QB:

How long has the prospect been @ Jones?  Any other experience?  I suggest you find people in your branch that successfuly and passionately use things that Jones lacks and get the two in front of each other.  Your prospect may not comprehend all that they lack - especially serving HNW clients.  Jones, while a great company, is the minor leagues.  I know Jones' system, and Well's system - get him in front of your system if you can. 



What do you guys mean when you say system?  Do you mean platform breadth?  Or do you mean technology? 

I'm curious because most threads that talk about prospecting involve cold calling and those who are good at it are the big dogs.  So, unless you are using two paper cups and string, what technology do you really need?  A trading platform?

Jones had a decent enough technology situation before I left, and I hear it has only gotten better.  A lot of the rules that handcuff someone at Jones, handcuff that same person if they affiliate or work for another b/d. 

Most people I talk to want either a) a check; b) high payout; or c) both.  Usually both. 

Feb 22, 2010 8:43 am
BioFreeze:


Broker fails and becomes a recruiter - happens all the time.

 
No that is hilarious!!   
Feb 22, 2010 8:44 am
Spud34:
BioFreeze:


Broker fails and becomes a recruiter - happens all the time.

 
No that is hilarious!!   
 
Now, not no.
Feb 22, 2010 9:53 am

Unless you are in a NYC, LA or Chicago I would have to disagree with the HNW comments. Possibly the UHNW folks, but they are so few, it's kind of a silly comment to make to a 10 year vet. If that broker is worth having at Wells, then he not only has "access" to that crowd, but he damn well better have some on the books.

Feb 22, 2010 10:52 am
AGEMAN:

I have a meeting next week with someone from Jones and was wondering if any former Jones people could give me some insight into things that are lacking there that may be important to point out?

Several things I see:
1.  Lack of access to HNW prospects. - Like Hulk said, we have plenty of access to the HNW crowd.  Just because we start with doorknocking for the $10K IRA doesn't mean that we don't transition to working with HNW clients over time.  If you can call them, I can call them.   
2.  Lack of ability to build an annuitized book as easily as at other firms due to a lack of large fee based platform and their C share policy. - That's going to be a much bigger one to overcome if the guy you're talking to has embraced Advisory Solutions.  And the C share policy isn't as restrictive as you make it sound.  No, we're not going to let someone put a $500K portfolio into C shares, but anything under $100K is going to fly with few, if any, problems. 
 
Positives to overcome:
1.  Having an assistant all to yourself.
2.  Good press
3.  Diversification Trips
4.  No Branch Manager
5.  No Grid
6.  Very capable back office
   
Any other points to consider??
 
Why in the world would anyone from Jones be wanting to talk with someone from AG/Wachovia/Wells if for any other reason than the upfront check?  Especially at 10 years with Jones.  Unless he's failing and looking for a fresh start at another b/d you should do him a favor and tell him to go indy instead of going to work for another firm.  Just to be clear, I would have the same question about going from Jones to any other b/d, so I'm not just picking on the AG/Wachovia/Wells folks. 
 
If your Envision Presentation printout is the best you guys have to offer your clients, he's going to feel like he's taking a step backwards compared to our FAST presentation.  I've got one from a prospect sitting on my desk.  It's the biggest waste of 24 pages of paper I've ever seen.  Please tell me my prospect's advisor just simply doesn't know how to use it and that it's really a brilliant software package.  I would honestly expected more from a CFP.  
 
Is your payout higher?  Is your technology better?  Does he want to utilize options?  Does his area support a HNW business model?  Is the check the only thing he's going see as a benefit to him?   
Feb 22, 2010 11:01 am
Spaceman Spiff:
AGEMAN:

I have a meeting next week with someone from Jones and was wondering if any former Jones people could give me some insight into things that are lacking there that may be important to point out?

Several things I see:
1.  Lack of access to HNW prospects. - Like Hulk said, we have plenty of access to the HNW crowd.  Just because we start with doorknocking for the $10K IRA doesn't mean that we don't transition to working with HNW clients over time.  If you can call them, I can call them.   
2.  Lack of ability to build an annuitized book as easily as at other firms due to a lack of large fee based platform and their C share policy. - That's going to be a much bigger one to overcome if the guy you're talking to has embraced Advisory Solutions.  And the C share policy isn't as restrictive as you make it sound.  No, we're not going to let someone put a $500K portfolio into C shares, but anything under $100K is going to fly with few, if any, problems. 
 
Positives to overcome:
1.  Having an assistant all to yourself.
2.  Good press
3.  Diversification Trips
4.  No Branch Manager
5.  No Grid
6.  Very capable back office
   
Any other points to consider??
 
Why in the world would anyone from Jones be wanting to talk with someone from AG/Wachovia/Wells if for any other reason than the upfront check?  Especially at 10 years with Jones.  Unless he's failing and looking for a fresh start at another b/d you should do him a favor and tell him to go indy instead of going to work for another firm.  Just to be clear, I would have the same question about going from Jones to any other b/d, so I'm not just picking on the AG/Wachovia/Wells folks. 
 
If your Envision Presentation printout is the best you guys have to offer your clients, he's going to feel like he's taking a step backwards compared to our FAST presentation.  I've got one from a prospect sitting on my desk.  It's the biggest waste of 24 pages of paper I've ever seen.  Please tell me my prospect's advisor just simply doesn't know how to use it and that it's really a brilliant software package.  I would honestly expected more from a CFP.  
 
Is your payout higher?  Is your technology better?  Does he want to utilize options?  Does his area support a HNW business model?  Is the check the only thing he's going see as a benefit to him?   
 
Now now Spiff, you know that every Jones broker has a branch manager; that is his field services manager.....I expect you to at least be honest, c'mon now.....
Feb 22, 2010 11:03 am
icebear48:
 
No options, no managed futures -  You got us on this one. 
 
Difficult discounting - Does one or two clicks of the mouse or keyboard constitute difficult?
 
lots of sales pressure - I'm not sure what pressure you're talking about, but in my entire career I've never had a single person tell me I had to sell something specific.  I do have sales goals, but then in this career I would expect that is the norm.   
 
high costs -  relative to what? 
 
small town "low end" image - As opposed to the big city, "I pay way too much for this space" kind of high end image?  Let's go back and revisit that high costs comment for a second shall we?  Do you mean because the office is on the courthouse square instead of inside the bank building?  Where else would you prefer to put an office in a small town?  
 
very poor business model -  Again, relative to what?   
 
and so forth.
 
I see you've had a big gulp size of the anti-EDJ kool aid this morning.  
Feb 22, 2010 11:04 am
noggin:
Now now Spiff, you know that every Jones broker has a branch manager; that is his field services manager.....I expect you to at least be honest, c'mon now.....
 
Funny.  You're correct.  I do have an FSD who, officially, is my branch manager.  At least that's what I'm supposed to tell FINRA were I ever to be audited.
Feb 22, 2010 11:08 am
Spaceman Spiff:
noggin:
Now now Spiff, you know that every Jones broker has a branch manager; that is his field services manager.....I expect you to at least be honest, c'mon now.....
 
Funny.  You're correct.  I do have an FSD who, officially, is my branch manager.  At least that's what I'm supposed to tell FINRA were I ever to be audited.
 
I am just poking fun, for the record of the people from my old region at jones, none have gone to a wirehouse or similiar and all 15 have gone indy with a variety of companies.
Feb 22, 2010 11:09 am

Unless you are serving HNW (as in many $1mm+ clients) clients, and you don't want to go indy, it's a tough sell to go from Jones to a wire these days.  A few years ago, it would have been different.  In fact, I considered going to Merrill to join a team.  This was about 6 months before Merrill got bought.  There are now 4 left (really 3 - I don't know who would consider UBS right now), and who knows what's down the road. 

Unless youa re talking going indy, I think there is too much risk going from Jones to a wire right now.  At least Jones you know what you have.  And I assume this guy has no production issues, etc.  So Jones is elaving him alone.  So unless you are joining an existing team, and are CERTAIN what your deal and your role is going to be, I wouldn't do it.
Feb 22, 2010 11:16 am
Incredible Hulk:

Unless you are in a NYC, LA or Chicago I would have to disagree with the HNW comments. Possibly the UHNW folks, but they are so few, it's kind of a silly comment to make to a 10 year vet. If that broker is worth having at Wells, then he not only has "access" to that crowd, but he damn well better have some on the books.


What do you mean by this?
A. Jones can't compete in large metro markets(i agree)
B. There are no HNW people in those markets()
Feb 22, 2010 11:24 am
noggin:
Spaceman Spiff:
AGEMAN:

I have a meeting next week with someone from Jones and was wondering if any former Jones people could give me some insight into things that are lacking there that may be important to point out?

Several things I see:
1.  Lack of access to HNW prospects. - Like Hulk said, we have plenty of access to the HNW crowd.  Just because we start with doorknocking for the $10K IRA doesn't mean that we don't transition to working with HNW clients over time.  If you can call them, I can call them.    It's not that you don't have access or have HNW clients... I think you are just missing all the tools. My old region(in a metro area) had an average account size of $57K... That isn't exactly HNW, but that is a typical jones office. My buddy runs an office $50MM AUM average account size $87K... just how it is.. Another ex-joneser went to UBS(5-6 years ago, never got LP($500K producer, mentor, seg leader), so took the upfront money from UBS and never even called anyone below $150K when he left($40MM book) and now his average client is in the neighborhood of $750K.. So there is a difference..
2.  Lack of ability to build an annuitized book as easily as at other firms due to a lack of large fee based platform and their C share policy. - That's going to be a much bigger one to overcome if the guy you're talking to has embraced Advisory Solutions.  And the C share policy isn't as restrictive as you make it sound.  No, we're not going to let someone put a $500K portfolio into C shares, but anything under $100K is going to fly with few, if any, problems. 
 
Positives to overcome:
1.  Having an assistant all to yourself.
2.  Good press
3.  Diversification Trips (Seriously??? I get taxed on it and I have to hang out with EDJers)
4.  No Branch Manager (No, but tons of insanse regional meetings)
5.  No Grid (Sure you do... yours is just by investements instead of production)
6.  Very capable back office
   
Any other points to consider??
 
Why in the world would anyone from Jones be wanting to talk with someone from AG/Wachovia/Wells if for any other reason than the upfront check?  Especially at 10 years with Jones.  Unless he's failing and looking for a fresh start at another b/d you should do him a favor and tell him to go indy instead of going to work for another firm.  Just to be clear, I would have the same question about going from Jones to any other b/d, so I'm not just picking on the AG/Wachovia/Wells folks. 
 
If your Envision Presentation printout is the best you guys have to offer your clients, he's going to feel like he's taking a step backwards compared to our FAST presentation.  I've got one from a prospect sitting on my desk.  It's the biggest waste of 24 pages of paper I've ever seen.  Please tell me my prospect's advisor just simply doesn't know how to use it and that it's really a brilliant software package.  I would honestly expected more from a CFP.  
 
Is your payout higher?  Is your technology better?  Does he want to utilize options?  Does his area support a HNW business model?  Is the check the only thing he's going see as a benefit to him?   
 
Now now Spiff, you know that every Jones broker has a branch manager; that is his field services manager.....I expect you to at least be honest, c'mon now.....
Feb 22, 2010 11:43 am

The one thing I would say regarding "average account size" at Jones.....

 
It is true that the "average account" or "household" is pretty low - $125K would be on the upper-end of many branches.  However, much of that is attributable to Jones' business philosophy for getting started....open as many accounts as humanly possible, regardless of size.  So the problem is not so much the average account size, but the number of small accounts.
 
The average 10-year guy has, say $50mm AUm and 750 accounts.  That's $65,000 average account.  But take away the bottom 350 accounts, and you probably have $45mm left, and 400 accounts.  I bet if you take the top 250 accounts, you probably have like $35mm AUM.  It's just how Jones guys get wired.  They pick up a lot of low-hanging fruit along the way.
 
SO you look at a guy that was at Jones with $50mm AUM and 750 accounts - he goes indy, takes 250 accounts and $35mm AUM, makes it all fee-based, does 350-400K revenue with 1/3 of the accounts and more profit, fewer clients, fewer headaches.   BUT, many guys are now doing that through Goodknight plans.  I have  heard of a few guys with 15-20 years that are now getting their books down to 250-300 households and 70-80mm AUM and just keeping the stuff that's wrapped (or generating income).  Along the way, they make a TON of money doing Goodknights, and get rid of all the crap.
Feb 22, 2010 12:00 pm
B24:

The one thing I would say regarding "average account size" at Jones.....

 
It is true that the "average account" or "household" is pretty low - $125K would be on the upper-end of many branches.  However, much of that is attributable to Jones' business philosophy for getting started....open as many accounts as humanly possible, regardless of size.  So the problem is not so much the average account size, but the number of small accounts.
 
The average 10-year guy has, say $50mm AUm and 750 accounts.  That's $65,000 average account.  But take away the bottom 350 accounts, and you probably have $45mm left, and 400 accounts.  I bet if you take the top 250 accounts, you probably have like $35mm AUM.  It's just how Jones guys get wired.  They pick up a lot of low-hanging fruit along the way.
 
SO you look at a guy that was at Jones with $50mm AUM and 750 accounts - he goes indy, takes 250 accounts and $35mm AUM, makes it all fee-based, does 350-400K revenue with 1/3 of the accounts and more profit, fewer clients, fewer headaches.   BUT, many guys are now doing that through Goodknight plans.  I have  heard of a few guys with 15-20 years that are now getting their books down to 250-300 households and 70-80mm AUM and just keeping the stuff that's wrapped (or generating income).  Along the way, they make a TON of money doing Goodknights, and get rid of all the crap.
 
They are sorta going that at Jones B24. They are reducing their headaches and smaller accounts and concentrating on their revenue and referral producing accounts. They are not increasing their income, however, just the proportion of it. What happens if the headache client that you are trying to spin in the GK refuses and come back to you? When you move independent, you only take the clients you want and get to do it without any of those headaches.
Feb 22, 2010 1:36 pm

Noggin,

 
I don't disagree with you there.  The GK program is not the answer to everything.  But for the most part, all the clients you want to get rid of, you can.  I usually hear of a handful of clients complaining they want to stay with "their" advisor".  For the really tough client, Compliance will give you the option of "re-assigning" a client to another branch when necessary, or asking a client to leave the firm (usually in rarer circumstances).
 
I will say, many of them are increasing revenue in a few ways.  First, they can directly icnrease revenue by getting increased revenue from their GK rookie.  They get 75% of the net of all the comissions produced in the GK account while he is there.  In most cases, the GK actually starts working the book and generating some added income (in many cases, more net to the veteran than before the GK).  Second, most find they have FAR more time on their hands now to prospect, mine their better clients, market, etc.  Third, your bonus is higher because they rookie absorbs most of your office overhead, and so your profit is higher and thus your bonus is higher.  Fourth, you get a nice net bonus at the end ($13,500 for $5mm plan, $27,000 for $10mm plan, $38,000 for $20mm).  Many vets are now just doing Gk after GK because of this.  Fifth, many are now concentrating on Advisory Solutions with their best clients only, and so are annuitizing a higher % of their existing books.
 
So again, not a answer to everything, but most vets I have spoken to have been thrilled with doing a GK.  I know the Vet I worked with almost doubled his net in the year I was with him.
Feb 22, 2010 1:52 pm
B24:

The one thing I would say regarding "average account size" at Jones.....

 
It is true that the "average account" or "household" is pretty low - $125K would be on the upper-end of many branches.  However, much of that is attributable to Jones' business philosophy for getting started....open as many accounts as humanly possible, regardless of size.  So the problem is not so much the average account size, but the number of small accounts.
 
The average 10-year guy has, say $50mm AUm and 750 accounts.  That's $65,000 average account.  But take away the bottom 350 accounts, and you probably have $45mm left, and 400 accounts.  I bet if you take the top 250 accounts, you probably have like $35mm AUM.  It's just how Jones guys get wired.  They pick up a lot of low-hanging fruit along the way.
 
SO you look at a guy that was at Jones with $50mm AUM and 750 accounts - he goes indy, takes 250 accounts and $35mm AUM, makes it all fee-based, does 350-400K revenue with 1/3 of the accounts and more profit, fewer clients, fewer headaches.   BUT, many guys are now doing that through Goodknight plans.  I have  heard of a few guys with 15-20 years that are now getting their books down to 250-300 households and 70-80mm AUM and just keeping the stuff that's wrapped (or generating income).  Along the way, they make a TON of money doing Goodknights, and get rid of all the crap.

I don't disagree... but that is the exact reason why Jones gets labeled as "small town, small investors"....