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May 23, 2006 11:29 pm

I hear that this week it's support staff and other branch personel who are getting the ax.  Probably not publicized, but I know my branch is lossing a couple.  I hear branch closings are being finalized as well.  Anyone else hearing stuff like this?  It looks like the restructuring may finally be coming to an end and soon we can all move forward.

May 24, 2006 9:28 am

locally (florida) there was a branch merger.

May 24, 2006 9:44 am
iconsult100:

I hear that this week it's support staff and other branch personel who are getting the ax.  Probably not publicized, but I know my branch is lossing a couple.  I hear branch closings are being finalized as well.  Anyone else hearing stuff like this?  It looks like the restructuring may finally be coming to an end and soon we can all move forward.



Why do you think this is the final stage of the restructuring?

May 24, 2006 11:37 am

...b/c we can't fire anyone else after this!

May 24, 2006 11:43 am

yes they can-read your employment contract-you are an employee at will.

May 24, 2006 12:19 pm
frumhere:

...b/c we can't fire anyone else after this!


lol


even w/ all the cuts, theres still a lot of dead weight and branches that are bordering on profitability

May 24, 2006 12:42 pm

xms...have you found another job yet?

May 24, 2006 1:36 pm

i found a better job before i got caught in the crossfire

May 24, 2006 1:45 pm

I heard that MS has brokers classified as red, yellow or green. I believe green is best and yellow and red are on the bubble. Does anyone know anything about this system?

May 24, 2006 8:31 pm

Don't let Butler get a look at this thread....

May 24, 2006 8:33 pm
Cowboy93:

Don't let Butler get a look at this thread....


Is he really a broker or is he mgmt that has to come to these boards and do spin control?


May 24, 2006 8:47 pm

I heard that MS has brokers classified as red, yellow or green. I believe green is best and yellow and red are on the bubble. Does anyone know anything about this system?


I believe you're referring to a system used to track branches.  There is a red/yellow/green system used to track each branche's recruiting, retention, asset growth, production, etc.  If you know of a system to track brokers I'd be interested in learning more.  I'm still a Mack/Gorman believer but recent changes with trainees and staff has hurt morale. 

May 24, 2006 9:11 pm
xmsbroker:
iconsult100:

I hear that this week it's support staff and other branch personel who are getting the ax.  Probably not publicized, but I know my branch is lossing a couple.  I hear branch closings are being finalized as well.  Anyone else hearing stuff like this?  It looks like the restructuring may finally be coming to an end and soon we can all move forward.



Why do you think this is the final stage of the restructuring?



What else is left.... the new management structure is in place.  Every position between the branch manager and Gorman has been decided. Even the RVPs have been fired or moved to a new job function.  The branch support/consolidation issues are pretty much all that's left.

May 25, 2006 9:34 am
iconsult100:
xmsbroker:
iconsult100:

I hear that this week it's support staff and other branch personel who are getting the ax.  Probably not publicized, but I know my branch is lossing a couple.  I hear branch closings are being finalized as well.  Anyone else hearing stuff like this?  It looks like the restructuring may finally be coming to an end and soon we can all move forward.



Why do you think this is the final stage of the restructuring?



What else is left.... the new management structure is in place.  Every position between the branch manager and Gorman has been decided. Even the RVPs have been fired or moved to a new job function.  The branch support/consolidation issues are pretty much all that's left.



Yeah, but theres no telling how far the branch closing/consolidation will go.  There are branches that are below profitability that are just there bc its the only one in a market. 


Likewise, another round of broker cuts wouldnt exactly be shocking.

May 25, 2006 9:59 am
xmsbroker:
iconsult100:
xmsbroker:
iconsult100:

I hear that this week it's support staff and other branch personel who are getting the ax.  Probably not publicized, but I know my branch is lossing a couple.  I hear branch closings are being finalized as well.  Anyone else hearing stuff like this?  It looks like the restructuring may finally be coming to an end and soon we can all move forward.



Why do you think this is the final stage of the restructuring?



What else is left.... the new management structure is in place.  Every position between the branch manager and Gorman has been decided. Even the RVPs have been fired or moved to a new job function.  The branch support/consolidation issues are pretty much all that's left.



Yeah, but theres no telling how far the branch closing/consolidation will go.  There are branches that are below profitability that are just there bc its the only one in a market. 


Likewise, another round of broker cuts wouldnt exactly be shocking.



I agree there's no telling how much more closing/consolidation there might be in branches, and I have no idea how many branches might be left that are below profitability and aren't expected to become profitable soon enough to consider keeping around. That’s yet another reason that anyone, working for any sort of public company should have a lifeboat ready and waiting to board. Having said that, it would probably amount to little more than a nice payday to brokers involved as they jump to another lifeboat.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />


OTOH, another round of broker cuts would be shocking and would be a signal a major blow to the current management team's plans on restructuring. Shocking to people in the firm, no matter how many times they’ve consider the fact that everything, anywhere can change on a dime, because most every communication that comes from the management team has a variation of the “we won’t be having any more mass cuts of producer” message. And I’m not talking about outrageous claims that everyone below $400k is history rumors, where somewhere north of 50% of the firm’s brokers would be cut, but any sort of across the board cut.


Not only would it be a signal to members of the firm that the plan is on it’s way to failing, it would send the same signal to the street that management has thrown in the towel and might be moving to sell off the retail arm after all.


One thing you can be certain of, there are some members of the recruiting industry and some people who don’t wish MS well (for a variety or reasons) will be beating the drums to keep the non-story alive.


May 25, 2006 10:01 am
xmsbroker:
Cowboy93:

Don't let Butler get a look at this thread....


Is he really a broker or is he mgmt that has to come to these boards and do spin control?




Paranoid much?

May 25, 2006 10:12 am
mikebutler222:
xmsbroker:
Cowboy93:

Don't let Butler get a look at this thread....


Is he really a broker or is he mgmt that has to come to these boards and do spin control?




Paranoid much?



No, not paranoid .  Its just that all of the brokers i know have a healthy skepticism of what will happen next, whereas the mgmt follows the company line.  You seem to fall more in the second category.  Most brokers (not just at MS) feel like they work for their clients, not the firm. 

May 25, 2006 11:15 am
xmsbroker:
mikebutler222:
xmsbroker:
Cowboy93:

Don't let Butler get a look at this thread....


Is he really a broker or is he mgmt that has to come to these boards and do spin control?




Paranoid much?



No, not paranoid .  Its just that all of the brokers i know have a healthy skepticism of what will happen next, whereas the mgmt follows the company line.  You seem to fall more in the second category.  Most brokers (not just at MS) feel like they work for their clients, not the firm. 



You clearly don't understand my point of view if that's how you see it. Healthy skepticism is one thing, buying whole into outlandish rumors that make no business sense (like cutting more than 50% of the broker force) and have had a “it will happen by” date that’s already passed three time is another.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />


Let me see if I can explain this one last time (and try to put aside your animosity towards MS for a minute). You are in charge of your career. No one, anywhere, outside your family (and even THAT’S not solid 100% of the time) will ever do anything more for you than say “I’m sorry” if some business situation comes up that makes prior assurances “non-operative”. If the best you get even in marriage is a promise that’s a promise until it isn’t a promise anymore, what makes you think you’ll get better when working in a public company? To me it’s like last years lay-offs, I felt bad for the guys affected, by for crying out loud, if you’re under $225k in production after 8 years, and you didn’t feel the target on your back for years, you’re brain-dead.


So, there’s nothing “following the company line” about realizing that two things are at work here at the same time, that management promises aren’t a unchangeable promise for life AND some rumors are so far from reality that they can be dismissed outright. Seems to me your attempt to portray the elimination of ½ of the training class as some sort of betrayal sounded more like someone with a grudge than someone making a logical point. The more you tried to make the case, the sillier it sounded.


Now, to your “work for the client” as opposed to “working for the firm” I have zero idea what you’re trying to say. Of course you work for the client, and if you’re smart you realize there are MANY places beyond where your desk is now, that you could work for that same client. How you figure there’s an either-or situation in working for your client, and keeping an eye on the future of your firm is beyond me.


May 25, 2006 11:35 am
mikebutler222:
xmsbroker:
mikebutler222:
xmsbroker:
Cowboy93:

Don't let Butler get a look at this thread....


Is he really a broker or is he mgmt that has to come to these boards and do spin control?




Paranoid much?



No, not paranoid .  Its just that all of the brokers i know have a healthy skepticism of what will happen next, whereas the mgmt follows the company line.  You seem to fall more in the second category.  Most brokers (not just at MS) feel like they work for their clients, not the firm. 



You clearly don't understand my point of view if that's how you see it. Healthy skepticism is one thing, buying whole into outlandish rumors that make no business sense (like cutting more than 50% of the broker force) and have had a “it will happen by” date that’s already passed three time is another.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />


Let me see if I can explain this one last time (and try to put aside your animosity towards MS for a minute). You are in charge of your career. No one, anywhere, outside your family (and even THAT’S not solid 100% of the time) will ever do anything more for you than say “I’m sorry” if some business situation comes up that makes prior assurances “non-operative”. If the best you get even in marriage is a promise that’s a promise until it isn’t a promise anymore, what makes you think you’ll get better when working in a public company? To me it’s like last years lay-offs, I felt bad for the guys affected, by for crying out loud, if you’re under $225k in production after 8 years, and you didn’t feel the target on your back for years, you’re brain-dead.


So, there’s nothing “following the company line” about realizing that two things are at work here at the same time, that management promises aren’t a unchangeable promise for life AND some rumors are so far from reality that they can be dismissed outright. Seems to me your attempt to portray the elimination of ½ of the training class as some sort of betrayal sounded more like someone with a grudge than someone making a logical point. The more you tried to make the case, the sillier it sounded.


Now, to your “work for the client” as opposed to “working for the firm” I have zero idea what you’re trying to say. Of course you work for the client, and if you’re smart you realize there are MANY places beyond where your desk is now, that you could work for that same client. How you figure there’s an either-or situation in working for your client, and keeping an eye on the future of your firm is beyond me.




Mike, while I appreciate both your antagonism and your enthusiasm, its clear to everyone that you have a much stronger than normal affinity towards Morgan Stanley.  I'm not sure what pleasure you get out of blindly rushing to defend the firm at every chance, but if thats what makes you happy so be it.

May 25, 2006 1:10 pm

What Gorman did was make a smart business decison.  MS was fat and lazy with too many 250K producers.  Once you decide to eliminate that group, all the support staff and real estate under them must also be eliminated.  This is not rocket science!  He also removed the culture (leaders) that led to this 4th place firm, Alonso, Burke, Sanchez, guys who thought the "emperor did have clothes".  The training program was nothing more than a way for Purcell to claim he had the largest firm measured by headcount, a complete waste of time.