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Aug 29, 2008 6:33 pm

Foot,

  You're misudnerstanding me.  I get tired of hearing FA's (at any firm) whine about others getting assets, teams, etc.  This is not really a pro- or anti-Jones thing.  I am just talking about the individuals.  Did I get assets?  Yeah, just under 5mm.  It has contributed a grand total of maybe 10% to my gross production.  I probably would have peformed better with zero, as I would not have wasted 6 early months focusing on those "clients."  Unfortunately, about 4mm was all in stocks in 2 accounts, and has contributed close to zero to my bottom line, and I got like 250 accounts.  You do the math.  And I didn't get those assets until about 8 months into selling.   As far as holding those people up, you're right.  They do that.  My point was, why the fuch do you care?  Grow up, pull up your bootstraps, and keep working.  What if those people never got assets?  Would you all of a sudden be doing better because everyone else started from zero?  Other than the random FA that gets more than 15mm handed to them, after a few years, it doesn't matter whether you started from zero or not - it all depends on you.   Foot, I would be saying this whether I worked at Jones, Merrill, or LPL.  I just freakin hate whiners.  I hated it when I was an athlete, and I hate it in business.  I don't even like my two kids whining.   Now that that's over - how is the financial advisory platform biased?  Seriously.  I have just started looking at it, so I am curious on your thoughts.
Aug 29, 2008 6:36 pm

[quote=Ron 14]

You guys can label me a cry baby or bitter, that is fine.  If you guys don't believe there is anything wrong with bootlickers and people who are full of BS, that is also fine. I have been successful in business before Jones and I will be after Jones. I made it a point long ago that I will not subject myself to situations where I am controlled or situations in which I am getting smoke blown up my rear. I definitely wont start now in the name of the green machine.  You guys will have long prosperous careers at EJ and the firm will love you. All tyrants love people below them that ignore various forms of injustice.

[/quote]   Injustice????  Are you freakin serious?  Because Johnny got soem assets and you didn't, and now they're giving him plaques and praise, THAT is injust?  Jones didn't hire you to hand you something.  Would you blame LPL if they didn't hand you assets?
Aug 29, 2008 6:57 pm

Ok…ok…I’m trying to hold it together.  A client of mine just came in to my office to let me know the Jones broker stopped by yesterday.  He was there talking with his wife about investing…blah blah blah…and at the end of the conversation…he said…“my wife is selling avon now and wanted to know if you have an avon rep”…no shit…Is St Louis teaching multi tasking…NICE…“If your not interested in this Household Finance bond, how about this shade of red for your lipstick”…

Aug 29, 2008 7:10 pm

From a different place or perspective. Maybe it the wear and tear on my life’s tires. Some of the members have mentioned individuals that got the GK program for whatever reason/s and essentially sat on the assets and did nothing. Others I am sure worked the clients and continued to build upon what was given to them. Fair or unfair that is just a reality.

To the point of holding up these " One Year Wonders " and using as role models. I suspect that everyone with the least amount of knowledge in the group knows what is what!!! In my business career, I have seen many come and go including the " Golden Boys " and girls. Funny thing with all their advantages they could not make it. Unfair you bet but the footsoldiers somehow survived. Does it bother people ....yes ....but in the end I have always been concerned about my survival. Even when the " Wonder Kids " struted around and spouted how smart and capable they were....my response was talk to me in about 10 years when you have paid your dues and survived the GOOD , BAD and UGLY.
Aug 29, 2008 7:20 pm

Amen!

Aug 29, 2008 7:36 pm

Spears,  as far as I can tell we are diametrically opposed on every conceivable topic....but you are funny as shit!

Aug 29, 2008 7:39 pm

Spears…" That’s called Cross-Selling"  Vertical Intergration Business Model.

Aug 29, 2008 8:00 pm

I am thinking of an office that was close to 225M and was split between the RL GK and a rep in the red from a different region. The GK rep was struggling at the time (I think he may have been red at the time,  too) and was contemplating leaving the industry.

  And then the office opened up. Not one of the 5 brokers in the town was offered it and most if not all had more tenure.  To be fair, he was NOT held up as an example.  Life ain't fair, and this situation wasn't isolated. I can think of another situation where a rep who failed, came back after succeeding at a bank, and was given 100M (becuase he was close friends with RL/GP). And never once did he do anything for the region while I was there.   B24- When faced with paying your bills (transaction model) or developing the strategy that uses the best funds/assets from many sponsors but pays you over time you can't help but be biased. It's human nature.
Aug 29, 2008 8:19 pm

Foot - Yesterday I spoke with an individual that was in the State Farm Agency Program and we were discussing business in general. In the recent past … a local well established Agent had passed away and an opening became available. The son of one of the local State Farm Agents applied to the program and he got the Established Agency. Whilst in training other Agents babysat the Clients and upon graduating he opened his New Office and an Instant Producer. He had no assets and his father had to lease. He just recently returned from an Incentive Trip to Hawaii for Agency Production. Fair probably not but everyone knew what the situation was / is for the young Agent.

They had hired other Trainees that were opening offices in the city....what did they get probably nothing and struggle to succeed . My point is and this is my yearts speaking this goes on everywhere ....do I personally like it ...of course not ...I simply focus on my situation.
Aug 29, 2008 8:25 pm

Foot, now I know what you mean.  I thought you meant the platform itself was biased.  But that is the case no matter where you are.  Most people have to start with transactional business unless they have some leg up - a lengthy salary, enough assets to survive off, a team, a working spouse, whatever - nature of the beast in the beginning.  I am fortunately in the position to be able to show client’s both ways of doing it, and use whatever they feel most comfortable with.  I think most people will either have a biased for or against commissions, or will just plain ask you what you think is better.  I am still wrestling with how to move going forward.  I am considering going all-fee (I already use C shares exclusively under 100K), but I run into too many situations where commissions make sense; for example, someone comes to me with a mutlitude of accounts, annuities, CD’s, bonds, etc., and you cannot neatly package it all into an advisory account.  I recently met with a guy that has mostly has American Funds A-shares already.  I can’t in good conscience sell someone out of that to fee them up, since I really like what he has.  But I guess for the guy that comes with a 500K rollover, that will go into advisory.

  What are your thoughts, and how do you run your business from a revenue standpoint - fees/commissions?
Aug 29, 2008 8:37 pm

[quote=footsoldier]I am thinking of an office that was close to 225M and was split between the RL GK and a rep in the red from a different region. The GK rep was struggling at the time (I think he may have been red at the time,  too) and was contemplating leaving the industry.

  And then the office opened up. Not one of the 5 brokers in the town was offered it and most if not all had more tenure.  To be fair, he was NOT held up as an example.  Life ain't fair, and this situation wasn't isolated. I can think of another situation where a rep who failed, came back after succeeding at a bank, and was given 100M (becuase he was close friends with RL/GP). And never once did he do anything for the region while I was there.   B24- When faced with paying your bills (transaction model) or developing the strategy that uses the best funds/assets from many sponsors but pays you over time you can't help but be biased. It's human nature.[/quote]   Ya know, I've been thinking about it (due to this thread).  What would actually be the fair way for all concerned to split up a big office?  You could theoretically split it up among all the offices in the area.  Fair to them, but doesn't make ANY business sense to Jones.  Give it to new brokers to make sure they survive and new offices are born.  Makes total sense for Jones, but not real fair to existing advisors - not to mention a dis-incentive to prospect and grow the book (unless you are good and grow by referral).  So I guess it's tough to split up an office and make it fair to everyone and still amke good business sense.  There may be no right answer here, since it can also depend on proximity.  For example, in my region, if there were a large office, you could not POSSIBLY split up the office, since there are very, very few offices with another office within 10 or 15 miles.  That would not be fair to the clients.  So what would you do in that case?  What if there were no newbies waiting to open?  Look for a transfer broker?  Open it up to people wanting to transfer from another office?  I don't know.  It's never happened in my region, so I don't know what they'd do.  Our most tenured advisors are rather young (early 50's), so there are not going to be any retirements or anyone jumping ship anytime soon (they're all pretty "comfortable" at Jones and with their lifestyles).  The only ship-jumpers we'll see are real small producers (like under 15mm in AUM.   Interesting to think about.  I guess it's a conandrum with our model.
Aug 29, 2008 8:46 pm

B24 , see my post on State Farm. I know a number of well established agents that have mentioned they would have been happy to take on the clients. State Farm for whatever reason decided to retain clients and give to the New Agent. Why…his father is a State Farm Agent. Others in the class had more experience but no connections? The New Agent was NOT in the business before , a new perspective? Is it Corporate Politics?

Again , I say fair not really but the footsoldiers ( despite the ups and downs ) continue to succeed despite not geeting the " Deal ".
Aug 29, 2008 8:50 pm

You’re right Norway.  I don’t know how it will ever be fair.  It’s even like that at wirehouses sometimes.  If you think about it, a rookie gets pulled into a team, is given 15-20mm under his number so the seniors don’t worry about him missing his bogey, adn can keep cranking it out for them.  Meanwhile, the poor new/new’s sweat away for a few years until they are fired or the salary runs out.  I can’t tell you how many newbs I’ve seen through our local Merrill office (and I have only seen a fraction of them).

Aug 29, 2008 8:56 pm

Never has been or will be fair. If the split could be done …who gets what client that becomes the next debate. See how the problem/s continues?

Aug 29, 2008 10:41 pm

The injustice isn't the fact that people get offices with more assets than others. Someone has to get those assets, they aren't going to give the closest 15 guys a million each! The injustice is the time wasting, mind numbing call sessions and regional events where these "fast starters" are now in leadership positions where they are talking, teaching, and preaching. Meanwhile, I could be home with my kids or building my business. If you don't go to these events the region is all over you, but if you go you are also miserable.

I am a GK advisor, meeting expecations, and won all of the queer awards. What I am saying is to give someone assets is one thing. To then have them leading the region and preaching to me pisses me off and you would have to be brain dead to not be bothered by it.
Aug 29, 2008 11:44 pm

Too bad Charles Darwin never had a chance to see some of this thread.  We could have an extra theory.  Lets see.  Evolution of the Species.  Survival of the Fittest. Natural Selection.   The Great and Evil Unfairnesses Against Those Who Surely Deserved Fairness Wrapped with a Bow.   Pfffffttt.  Isn’t capitalism economic Darwinism?  My theory has always been if I am not smart enough to convince someone to “give” me something then I’ll just get off my butt and get it myself.  Either way, I am getting it!  I now realize I had a third option.  WHINE.  Thank goodness I did not know this when I got skipped over in the “fairness” line and built it on my own.  Rationalizing success or failure as someone else’s fault is unproductive and a waste of time.  Last check time is all we have and we can’t get it back.  Go build a huge practice anywhere you want (even Jones) and make sure your son/daughter, friend, cousin, uncle, gets the fairness you did not when you pass it to them.  That is what I will do and people will say my son did not deserve it as he provides for my future grandkids.
ytrewq

Aug 30, 2008 12:19 am

Receiving assets happens everywhere all the time and at every firm. In every business you have people who get ahead because of better situations or circumstances. Again, that isnt my point.

  Would you attend a seminar where a lottery winner is teaching people how to earn money? No. That is what my region does at EJ. It may not happen everywhere, but it is happening in mine and that is fact.
Aug 30, 2008 1:01 am

I would dispute the “everywhere every time” quote.  I got handed a big fat zero.  I’ll bet most people here got the same or less than me.  If they have been here a while I bet they are a success in spite of and maybe because of a big fat zero.  My point is not to argue with you.  My point is to argue that it does not matter.  We all chose the hardest (and most rewarding) damn career we could find.  We “sell” a hope and a guess and a I think maybe probably could be 5 or 10 or 30 years down the road.  Oh, did I mention the rules change constantly?
If we truly base our success on what the other guy got we all win.  Is it 95% of them failed and we are still here?  At the end of the game when we count the chips there could be a guy or gal who has more than us because they started with more (probably not many of them).  Who cares.  We don’t need help.  We make our own help.  Nothing given to you will make you succeed at this business.  You gotta be born with it.

Aug 30, 2008 2:33 am
Spaceman Spiff:

[quote=noggin]Paducah,KY need I say more.

  I know a couple of the people that took chunks of that office when David Lane left.  But you probably have some feelings on the issue, so before I tell you what I know, I'd like to hear what you think about the split of David's office.    I will say that the history of that office is a great story.  Paducah used to have one advisor.  Tom Bartow.  Then David Lane came in and instead of sitting on his butt and managing a $100 mil office, he darn near tripled the AUM while he was there.  Today there are 11 offices in that town.  And Jones has an almost unheard of 8% market share.  Those Jones FAs are just shy of $500 MM in AUM cumulatively in that county.  Not too shabby considering that David could have had a really good life just calling his inherited clients and taking the trails as they roll in.    Would it have pissed you off more if they just would have picked someone from the home office to come out and take over the whole office?    [/quote] Spiff- The version that I have heard is this. BTW, I have gone to a Bartow session before and he is not a guy I like but DEFINITELY a guy that can teach you how to do the work.  I heard that there was a lot of posturing and several guys out 4-7 years that could have used more assets but instead of making that decision they opted to split the assets up and bring 2 guys into town that were in the PASS program. I find that Jones many times has a habit of rewarding the PASS program rather than the people who have actually shown that they can build a business. I think the history of the Paducah market is nothing short of impressive penetration but I would imagine that the region has some issues.  I do think that anytime that you put yourself in the employee mold you can either take the slop that is given you or leave and not take it. I have a friend in my old region who has moved and taken over 2 offices in 6 years and he and I were discussing the fact that my clients are actually mine and that the office he has now are Jones clients because all he really is the 2nd or 3rd jones broker that they have had. Would I have refused 40M in assets if it was given to me? Probably not. You just have to realize that there is a price attached to it, that price is your future freedom. After you have been in the business for awhile you realize that if you built a business once you can do it again and why not do it and OWN it? Once again, I do respect you and your views and certainly have no grudge against Jones. They started me in business and they have a certain gratitude in my heart for that. That being said, they have ruined several people I know because they think that they have to accept the gruel that is dished and served to them. Is that fault of Jones? No. When i first joined the company after having dinner with the RL, my wife commented that I was joining "The Firm" like the Grisham novel. There certainly are some similarities........        
Aug 30, 2008 4:02 pm

Options are fairly simple don’t you think…Either grin and bear it or leave.

  Where I come down on this argument is that most Jones brokers only know what they have been told by management. Even if they had success in other industries, they can't be posssibly be objective because most FA's only have experience in the Jones employee model. I agree it does know one any good to bitch about how others get treated. Life at Jones or anywhere else isn't fair especially if you work for someone else.   That why I left. I am coming up on 2 year anniversary this week of independence from Jones and I could never ever go back to working to line the pockets of people I could not trust. For me the thought of ever becoming one of them (after all isn't that the goal Spiff/B24 etc.)was a compromise of my integrity that I was unwilling to make.   Ron...I'll make a wager within a couple of years you will leave Jones. In fact, I would encourage any advisor that makes it 5 years to do their due diligence and survey the marketplace.