Large Cloud

or Register to post new content in the forum

40 RepliesJump to last post

 

Comments

  • Allowed HTML tags: <em> <strong> <blockquote> <br> <p>

Plain text

  • No HTML tags allowed.
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.
Mar 13, 2007 10:11 am
joedabrkr:
Bamzor:

BTW ..A large cloud formation is building in our legal system on EIA's. Becareful.




Care to elaborate on that "large cloud" a little bit for us?  Got links?


Joe, Personally I shake my head when I see these come across my desk.  Anyway if you didn't know that a Large Cloud front is approaching it is starting in Minnesota, Hawiaii, and California.


Allianz is Putnam.


Here are a few links:


http://www.investmentnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/200 70115/FREE/70112020/-1/INIssueAlert04


http://www.investmentnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/200 70226/FREE/70226008


http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2007 0311/NEWS/703110387

Mar 13, 2007 11:01 am
Bamzor:
joedabrkr:
Bamzor:

BTW ..A large cloud formation is building in our legal system on EIA's. Becareful.



Care to elaborate on that "large cloud" a little bit for us?  Got links?


Joe, Personally I shake my head when I see these come across my desk.  Anyway if you didn't know that a Large Cloud front is approaching it is starting in Minnesota, Hawiaii, and California.


Allianz is Putnam.


Here are a few links:


http://www.investmentnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/200 70115/FREE/70112020/-1/INIssueAlert04


http://www.investmentnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/200 70226/FREE/70226008


http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2007 0311/NEWS/703110387



I hear ya.  I've never done a single EIA and don't intend to in the future.  VA's are fine by me but the index products are just a little too much of a "black box" for me to be comfortable.

Mar 13, 2007 11:08 am
Bamzor:
joedabrkr:
Bamzor:

BTW ..A large cloud formation is building in our legal system on EIA's. Becareful.




Care to elaborate on that "large cloud" a little bit for us?  Got links?


Joe, Personally I shake my head when I see these come across my desk.  Anyway if you didn't know that a Large Cloud front is approaching it is starting in Minnesota, Hawiaii, and California.


Allianz is Putnam.


Here are a few links:


http://www.investmentnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/200 70115/FREE/70112020/-1/INIssueAlert04


http://www.investmentnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/200 70226/FREE/70226008


http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2007 0311/NEWS/703110387



About time!!  I have some clients who where hoodwinked into putting about 825K of their pooled profit sharing plan into these equity indexed bonus annuities.  The company is the owner and the principles of the company (2 people) are the annuitants on the two contracts.  The annuitants are about 10 years to being 59 1/2.  The were lured with the same song and dance.  10% bonus, can't lose in a down market etc.  They were NOT fully apprised of the 15 year surrender period, that they had to annuitize to get the 10% bonus and that the product has a mere 5% annual liquidity/free withdrawal feature.


This is a pooled plan and when employees retire, as will happen soon, the withdrawal required will be more than the free amount.  Fortunately, they have an additional amount that is with me in liquid stock/bond/etf and mutual fund investments. They don't want to withdraw from these, but will be forced to.   They wrote letters to the Allianz company complaining.  The agent who sold them the annuities is no longer at the same B/D....gee I wonder why?  The response from the company.....tough titty, you should have read the contract.  I suggested they have their attorney draft a forceful letter. 


Oh, and btw. The agent also transferred some large amounts of their personal IRA's into the same EIA contracts.   What a guy!!  I figure he made at least 90K in commissions. 


Our only solution is to take the free withdrawal each year, transferring it into their other qualified plan to avoid early withdrawal penalites and gain more liquidity. 

Mar 13, 2007 11:08 am

Wow those Phillip Roy guys are seriously cheesy....

Mar 13, 2007 4:58 pm

I would love to see these EIA salesmen lined up against the wall and shot, but I am afraid that we may have an Eliot Spitzer style backlash against VA's. 


That is what happened with mutual funds, a couple of jacka---es got greedy, and all of us get punished as a result.

Mar 13, 2007 5:01 pm
babbling looney:
Bamzor:
joedabrkr:
Bamzor:

BTW ..A large cloud formation is building in our legal system on EIA's. Becareful.




Care to elaborate on that "large cloud" a little bit for us?  Got links?


Joe, Personally I shake my head when I see these come across my desk.  Anyway if you didn't know that a Large Cloud front is approaching it is starting in Minnesota, Hawiaii, and California.


Allianz is Putnam.


Here are a few links:


http://www.investmentnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/200 70115/FREE/70112020/-1/INIssueAlert04


http://www.investmentnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/200 70226/FREE/70226008


http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2007 0311/NEWS/703110387



About time!!  I have some clients who where hoodwinked into putting about 825K of their pooled profit sharing plan into these equity indexed bonus annuities.  The company is the owner and the principles of the company (2 people) are the annuitants on the two contracts.  The annuitants are about 10 years to being 59 1/2.  The were lured with the same song and dance.  10% bonus, can't lose in a down market etc.  They were NOT fully apprised of the 15 year surrender period, that they had to annuitize to get the 10% bonus and that the product has a mere 5% annual liquidity/free withdrawal feature.


This is a pooled plan and when employees retire, as will happen soon, the withdrawal required will be more than the free amount.  Fortunately, they have an additional amount that is with me in liquid stock/bond/etf and mutual fund investments. They don't want to withdraw from these, but will be forced to.   They wrote letters to the Allianz company complaining.  The agent who sold them the annuities is no longer at the same B/D....gee I wonder why?  The response from the company.....tough titty, you should have read the contract.  I suggested they have their attorney draft a forceful letter. 


Oh, and btw. The agent also transferred some large amounts of their personal IRA's into the same EIA contracts.   What a guy!!  I figure he made at least 90K in commissions. 


Our only solution is to take the free withdrawal each year, transferring it into their other qualified plan to avoid early withdrawal penalites and gain more liquidity. 



Sounds like a case of sour grapes to me. If you had been doing a great job, they wouldn't have made a move without consulting you first. The commission was $82,500, FYI.

Mar 13, 2007 5:32 pm

Sounds like a case of sour grapes to me. If you had been doing a great job, they wouldn't have made a move without consulting you first. The commission was $82,500, FYI.


1. They weren't my customers at the time they did the annuities.


2. They moved everything to me from this and other B/D after their accountant hit the ceiling over this and recommended they change.  I now have their personal, various businesses and childrens accounts as well as that of their employees who are retiring.  Well over 2 million.


3. The commission you are quoting is based on what? You don't know the full amount that they put into the indexed annuities. You don't even know which one they own.


I have no issue with their personal IRAs being in this account, however the pooled profit sharing plan should never ever have been put into something as illiquid as an EIA. The money in the pooled plan doesn't belong to the owners per se.  It belongs to the employees.


No sour grapes.  Just ire that this scumbag has put my clients into this position and that his illegal activites reflect badly on the rest of us in the industry who care more about our clients than he obviously did.


Since this is your first post, I assume that you are either one of our resident EIA pushers Dirk  with a new identity or a new EIA pusher.  Either way, the reason for the three internet links in the first post in this thread is people like you who think the above scenario is OK.

Mar 13, 2007 6:16 pm
EDJ4now:

I would love to see these EIA salesmen lined up
against the wall and shot, but I am afraid that we may have an Eliot
Spitzer style backlash against VA's.





Why fight it? I love to show clients AEL's investor presentation. It basicly says anyone who buys our products is a sucker.



We invest the annuity proceeds at 6%, take a 200bp cut for ourselves, and then use the remainder to buy index call options.



Average annuity has a 15% surrender charge with 13 years average life on it.



Of course the 10-K does warn about the risks from potential NASD restrictions on EIA sales and various unpleased state AG's.

Mar 13, 2007 11:40 pm
babbling looney:

Sounds like a case of sour grapes to me. If you had been doing a great job, they wouldn't have made a move without consulting you first. The commission was $82,500, FYI.


1. They weren't my customers at the time they did the annuities.


2. They moved everything to me from this and other B/D after their accountant hit the ceiling over this and recommended they change.  I now have their personal, various businesses and childrens accounts as well as that of their employees who are retiring.  Well over 2 million.


3. The commission you are quoting is based on what? You don't know the full amount that they put into the indexed annuities. You don't even know which one they own.


I have no issue with their personal IRAs being in this account, however the pooled profit sharing plan should never ever have been put into something as illiquid as an EIA. The money in the pooled plan doesn't belong to the owners per se.  It belongs to the employees.


No sour grapes.  Just ire that this scumbag has put my clients into this position and that his illegal activites reflect badly on the rest of us in the industry who care more about our clients than he obviously did.


Since this is your first post, I assume that you are either one of our resident EIA pushers Dirk  with a new identity or a new EIA pusher.  Either way, the reason for the three internet links in the first post in this thread is people like you who think the above scenario is OK.



What was done that was illegal? I do feel you pain, though. That's a lot of money to have tied up all safe from you, ain't it?

Mar 14, 2007 11:21 am

What was done that was illegal? I do feel you pain, though. That's a lot of money to have tied up all safe from you, ain't it?


You are an idiot. It isn't exactly illegal but it was not in the client's best interest to have pooled profit sharing money put into an investment that they cannot use to disburse to their employees who are the owners of that money.   The difference between illegal and unethical seems to be lost on you.


When my client's employees, who are going retire in the near future, want to roll out their retirement funds the employer is going to have to take a huge penalty for early withdrawals.  This penalty is going to adversely impact the other employees who remain in the profit sharing plan by reducing the amount in the plan by the amount of the penalties.  The penalties are probably going to be over $15,000 this year.  Future years....more penalties.  As I said we are going to withdraw the free amount each year to try to get some liquidity for the future.


The guy who did this was/is a hack who didn't care at all about the needs of the clients....just his own pocket.  I'm sure that that does ring a bell with you since you seem to think this is just hunky dory.


You make me sick.

Mar 14, 2007 11:46 am
babbling looney:

The difference between illegal and unethical seems to be lost on you.



Babs this is the key distinction that EIA pushers and the "Certified Senior Advisor" scum in our industry either don't get or don't care about.

If more people with our common licensure cared about this distinction we would be better off as an industry!

Mar 14, 2007 4:41 pm
babbling looney:

What was done that was illegal? I do feel you pain, though. That's a lot of money to have tied up all safe from you, ain't it?


You are an idiot. It isn't exactly illegal but it was not in the client's best interest to have pooled profit sharing money put into an investment that they cannot use to disburse to their employees who are the owners of that money.   The difference between illegal and unethical seems to be lost on you.


When my client's employees, who are going retire in the near future, want to roll out their retirement funds the employer is going to have to take a huge penalty for early withdrawals.  This penalty is going to adversely impact the other employees who remain in the profit sharing plan by reducing the amount in the plan by the amount of the penalties.  The penalties are probably going to be over $15,000 this year.  Future years....more penalties.  As I said we are going to withdraw the free amount each year to try to get some liquidity for the future.


The guy who did this was/is a hack who didn't care at all about the needs of the clients....just his own pocket.  I'm sure that that does ring a bell with you since you seem to think this is just hunky dory.


You make me sick.



I'm suprised that I can impact your life to the extent that I have made you sick. You must have a pretty week personality. I got confused when you used the word "illegal." I thought you meant it to mean "illegal." In case you don't know...there's probably enough words in the English language for you to be able to say what you mean without having to substitute other words.

Mar 14, 2007 5:06 pm

The people selling EIA's in my town are dishonest.  They completely take advantage of the people that come for their "FREE" meal.  I believe this is very common and there should be some serious regulations on how and by whom these are sold.

Mar 14, 2007 5:08 pm
Bobby Hull:
babbling looney:

What was done that was illegal? I do feel you pain, though. That's a lot of money to have tied up all safe from you, ain't it?


You are an idiot. It isn't exactly illegal but it was not in the client's best interest to have pooled profit sharing money put into an investment that they cannot use to disburse to their employees who are the owners of that money.   The difference between illegal and unethical seems to be lost on you.


When my client's employees, who are going retire in the near future, want to roll out their retirement funds the employer is going to have to take a huge penalty for early withdrawals.  This penalty is going to adversely impact the other employees who remain in the profit sharing plan by reducing the amount in the plan by the amount of the penalties.  The penalties are probably going to be over $15,000 this year.  Future years....more penalties.  As I said we are going to withdraw the free amount each year to try to get some liquidity for the future.


The guy who did this was/is a hack who didn't care at all about the needs of the clients....just his own pocket.  I'm sure that that does ring a bell with you since you seem to think this is just hunky dory.


You make me sick.


I'm suprised that I can impact your life to the extent that I have made you sick. You must have a pretty week personality. I got confused when you used the word "illegal." I thought you meant it to mean "illegal." In case you don't know...there's probably enough words in the English language for you to be able to say what you mean without having to substitute other words.



Babs don't feed the trolls and maybe they'll go away....  (And yah I know I have no room to cast any stones.....)

Mar 14, 2007 5:14 pm
joedabrkr:



Babs this is the key distinction that EIA pushers and the "Certified Senior Advisor" scum in our industry either don't get or don't care about.

If more people with our common licensure cared about this distinction we would be better off as an industry!

As a Chartered Senior Annuity Advisor, I resent your attempts at preventing me from feeding my family and making payments on my Porche Boxter.

Mar 14, 2007 5:15 pm
AllREIT:
joedabrkr:



Babs this is the key distinction that EIA pushers and the "Certified Senior Advisor" scum in our industry either don't get or don't care about.

If more people with our common licensure cared about this distinction we would be better off as an industry!

As a Chartered Senior Annuity Advisor, I resent your attempts at preventing me from feeding my family and making payments on my Porche Boxter.



Wow that sounds complicated.  How long did it take you to get that designation?

Mar 14, 2007 5:30 pm
joedabrkr:
AllREIT:
joedabrkr:



Babs this is the key distinction that EIA pushers and the "Certified Senior Advisor" scum in our industry either don't get or don't care about.

If more people with our common licensure cared about this distinction we would be better off as an industry!

As a Chartered Senior Annuity Advisor, I resent your attempts at preventing me from feeding my family and making payments on my Porche Boxter.




Wow that sounds complicated.  How long did it take you to get that designation?


Funny you should ask.


Thanks to my specialised training, I am uniquely qualified to offer you a special bonus annuity. The company doesn't like me selling too many of these these, in fact they are going to stop offering them at the end of the month.


If you act now I'll be able to get you this annuity today, with a special 10% sign-up bonus.


With this annuity,you will be able to retire to a lifetime of secure income that can never be taken away from you.

Mar 14, 2007 5:45 pm
gad12:

The people selling EIA's in my town are dishonest.  They completely take advantage of the people that come for their "FREE" meal.  I believe this is very common and there should be some serious regulations on how and by whom these are sold.



We already have those regulations. They can only be sold by insurance agents. Didn't you know that?

Mar 14, 2007 6:13 pm
Bobby Hull:
gad12:

The people selling EIA's in my town are dishonest.  They completely take advantage of the people that come for their "FREE" meal.  I believe this is very common and there should be some serious regulations on how and by whom these are sold.



We already have those regulations. They can only be sold by insurance agents. Didn't you know that?



I guess you missed the word SERIOUS in my post.

Mar 14, 2007 6:20 pm
AllREIT:
joedabrkr:
AllREIT:
joedabrkr:



Babs this is the key distinction that EIA pushers and the "Certified Senior Advisor" scum in our industry either don't get or don't care about.

If more people with our common licensure cared about this distinction we would be better off as an industry!

As a Chartered Senior Annuity Advisor, I resent your attempts at preventing me from feeding my family and making payments on my Porche Boxter.




Wow that sounds complicated.  How long did it take you to get that designation?


Funny you should ask.


Thanks to my specialised training, I am uniquely qualified to offer you a special bonus annuity. The company doesn't like me selling too many of these these, in fact they are going to stop offering them at the end of the month.


If you act now I'll be able to get you this annuity today, with a special 10% sign-up bonus.


With this annuity,you will be able to retire to a lifetime of secure income that can never be taken away from you.



You'd better watch or you will be Karuso'd ...CSI Miami Style. You can see him.....Pullin the shades down, tilting his mug....saying, "This isn't a well positioned investment.......This is a Crime Scene!"    Horatio to Eric, "What are those tracks leading to the dead CSA"   Eric, "It looks like the Centenarian who was sold an EIA ran her battery powered Scooter over the CSA's back."  Horatio, "Like I said this is a crime scene and the centenarian is the victim."   Eric, "Hector, I believe my mom and dad were sold an EIA 9 days and 23 hours ago."   Horatio, "Quick Eric,  Lets roll! "   Eric, "Where" Horatio, "To your mom and dads Eric, thats where the next crime scene will be if we don't hurry and stop it."    Next weeks episode, "Calleigh finds finger prints of a Registered Rep on an EIA contract.....Watch the drama unfold..!!"