Skip navigation

Grass is greener....at Jones

or Register to post new content in the forum

117 RepliesJump to last post

 

Comments

  • Allowed HTML tags: <em> <strong> <blockquote> <br> <p>

Plain text

  • No HTML tags allowed.
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.
Nov 3, 2005 6:06 am

Guest1,  I cant figure you out....its as though you try so hard to justify to yourself that individuals that left Jones are worse off than they were before....YET I HAVE NEVER SEEN A SINGLE POST or even heard of anyone that left Jones say they regret it.  Except, of course, on the infamous memo that is the topic of the thread.  I remember the memo, came over the weekend nightwire around Feb '05, then kept showing up...over and over....and every week there is a variation of that thing on the final "Doug Hills corner" topic.  Some touchy feely...

"Dear Doug, thank you so much for your leadership! I wanted to take a moment to tell you that I have worked for what are often billed as the 'top firms' before coming to jones, and there is no comparison.  I am thrilled with the products offered here, my pay is much better, and the technology is top of the line.  I was even independant for a period of time before I came here and I can assure you...the grass is definately greener here than elsewhere. Be sure to tell all the new brokers that they are truly part of the greatest salesforce in the world. This is why it is so important that we spread the good news and recruit new IR's to share in this great opportunity.  We know that new hires help us all and raise our market share for everyone.  Thanks and keep up the good work.  Stan Smith, Seg 5, Honkytonk, USA" 

I wish I had saved them all...Every single Jones employee out there knows I am telling the truth that some variation of this horse crap is printed weekly on the nightwire or the Doug hill corner.

Nov 3, 2005 12:46 pm

G1,

And we all know that your soon to be ex-Managing Partner wrote all of those wires himself.

Nov 3, 2005 3:07 pm

Some people drink the kool-aid, some people are open-minded, and some just downright beer-bong the stuff.

Nov 3, 2005 4:27 pm

Guest1,

I already know what RJFS is doing with annuities but it is nowhere near to what your going through at Jones as far as I can tell.

I can live with a 7% commission over the first seven years.  The L share annuity will be a thing of the past ( u don't have those at Jones anyway) with a 4% up front and a 1% trail for life of contract.  They are about 10% of my business.  There are many advisors who use annuities much more extensively than I do.  I'd imagine they would be more upset than I.

As far as being in business for myself...I am dude and I have a corporate tax return to prove it.  Sure there are issues and instances that change the way I do business but nothing compared to Jones.  I like a strong compliance department..but not one that gets in the way between me and my client.  No firm is perfect but being indy is by far the better choice then remaining at Jones for any vet broker.

Nov 3, 2005 10:26 pm

G 1

Who are you sticking up for?  Think about it, now ask yourself when was the last time they stuck up for you.  This new VA policy is a great example; to say what's wrong with it goes to a point I made earlier, Jones' policies are set for the lowest common denominator - as a result, the vets pay the price too.  If you don't have confidence in the advice you give and feel comfortable with EVERY VA application having to go in front of somebody in the home office who does not know you or your client from anybody - you really are a joke and really shouldn't be in this business.  Now go have another drink of the kool-aid and wonder why - no advisor that has left jones has ever had any regret other than they didn't do it sooner.

Nov 3, 2005 11:37 pm

I can't help but shudder everytime one of you makes reference to koolaid. It's funny that csmelnix talks about Jones as the lowest common denominator. I was thinking the same about the writer. Anyone else find the analogy pitiful.

As far as I know, no one has died at Jones because of the greedy GP's....Maybe some of you have heard that we live in a free society and are able to choose our paths in life (business or otherwise). Some have chosen a different route than the indy way. Get over it and move on.

Nov 3, 2005 11:50 pm

[quote=7yrvet]

As far as I know, no one has died at Jones because of the greedy GP's....

[/quote]

Nice standard to measure success by. Pitiful.

Nov 3, 2005 11:55 pm

[quote=7yrvet]

I can't help but shudder everytime one of you makes reference to koolaid...

....Maybe some of you have heard that we live in a free society and are able to choose our paths in life (business or otherwise). Some have chosen a different route than the indy way. Get over it and move on.

[/quote]

Yup. Free society. You're the one that keeps reading the posts here.  I say you drink kool-aid. Deal with it. But remember, I'm the one that told you you were giving up 20k per year so 3mil could count you among the "greatest salesforce."  Now, pay his legal fees so he can keep doing it, and then come buy the bridge I have to sell you.

Nov 4, 2005 12:32 pm

7yearvet,

I guess the koolaid that you seem to mainline also interfers with reading comprehension too!  Please re-read csmelnix's post especially "Jones' policies are set for the lowest common denominator" refers to your IRs not Jones as the lowest common denominator.  I'm sure simple minded individuals could make that 'leap' of judgement very easily.

exdrone -

EXCELLENT REBUTTLE !

Nov 4, 2005 1:34 pm

Civilized dialogue appears to be an impossibility on this forum.

Nov 4, 2005 1:47 pm

7yearvet,

That's rich, expecting civility from a "darksider" like myself.

Tell you what I'll buy you a beer chaser to go along with that koolaid shooter.

Oh and in case you haven't read your hometown paper, you may want to start planning on a "stepping down party"

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/editorialc ommentary/story/FD8A45FAB914CED0862570AE0038000B?OpenDocumen t&highlight=2%2C%22doug%22+AND+%22hill%22

OUR VIEW: EDWARD JONES: Booting the boss

Below is the link to the story.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/editorialc ommentary/story/FD8A45FAB914CED0862570AE0038000B?OpenDocumen t

Here is the story.

U.S. ATTORNEY Catherine Hanaway was right in refusing to let Douglas Hill remain as head of the Edward Jones brokerage.

The decision sent an important message: Corporate sleaze is not
forgivable, no matter how prominent the corporation. She upheld the principle that chief executives who condone deceit can be made to suffer personally.  Kid gloves are not in fashion at the federal courthouse.

Neither Mr. Hill nor the firm has been accused of a crime. Instead, the
firm was taken to task civilly for deceiving its customers. Its sin was
in being slimy, and Mr. Hill presided over the deceit.

The Des Peres-based firm urged clients to buy mutual funds on its
"preferred list." Customers believed the funds were preferred because
they were high performers. The firm didn't tell clients that the funds were kicking back about $90 million a year to Edward Jones.

Such kickbacks, more politely labeled "revenue sharing," are not
crimes. Neither are a lot of shady practices.

The Securities and Exchange Commission - jolted awake by a spate of
corporate scandals - took after Edward Jones with a civil
investigation, and the U.S. Attorney joined in. The settlement was negotiated before Ms. Hanaway took office this year. The firm agreed to pay $75 million in fines and make restitution to clients. Mr. Hill agreed to step down by Dec. 31 from a job that paid him $1.8 million last year (after deducting his $3.1 million share of the company's fine).

With the date drawing near, the firm asked for a reprieve to allow Mr.
Hill to stay in the top job. Ms. Hanaway gave a polite listen, then turned them down. "Can Doug Hill stay? No he can't stay," she told the []Post-Dispatch[].

Edward Jones' dalliance with deceit is a shame, because it soiled its reputation for caring for customers. The firm preaches a buy-and-hold philosophy that serves clients well in building wealth over time. It's
the opposite of the buy-quick/sell-quick pitch that builds commissions at other firms.

Edward Jones' mutual fund misbehavior was an aberration. The firm needs to rebuild faith with its customers. To that end, Mr. Hill needs to move on.

Nov 4, 2005 1:55 pm

Interesting...thanks for the info.

7year,

There is a four letter word that comes to mind as I read your posts that starts with the letter F. 

It's fear that holds you back...and by the way, shouldn't you be changing your name to "8yr vet" by now?

Nov 4, 2005 5:11 pm

Priceless.  Can't wait for this Jones spin on this.  It's like he fell on his sword twice now.

Nov 5, 2005 6:47 pm

A couple of thoughts/questions:

1. There are frequent comments that reps have more available to them outside of EJ. Could someone be specific on this; i.e., what exact products or services are available outside that are not within the firm, like wrap acct's, equity index annuities, separately managed accounts, other MF's or variable annuities or life insurance products, etc. The details are not clear to me from the posts. I'm interested in things which would be of greater benefit to the clients, and perhaps a detailed rationale why they are better for the clients.

2. Many former EJ reps complain about the voluntary activities they were asked to fulfill to help newer co-workers, but these former reps seem to devote a large amount of time here "helping" people they never met. Isn't this inconsistent?

3. A frequent theme is supposed GP greed, while it is a known fact that the firm has rejected multiple opportunities to sell or go public, in spite of great profit to the ownership. Doesn't this suggest money is not the only motivation for the ownership?

4. Isn't it striking that almost all posters here are independent? Perhaps the wirehouses and regional firms ask their reps not to spend their time on sites like this.

Nov 5, 2005 10:45 pm

Vega74,

All you would have to do is spend ten minutes searching this forum and you would find everything you were looking for.  I do sense the sarcasm laden within your post--and perhaps rightfully so.  I'll respond briefly to each question.

1.  Products not available in Edward Jones:  Wrap accounts-both disc & non-disc, MANY VA products..esp those w/living benefits, Floating rate funds, Investment banking products, EIA's (although I never use them), Seperaltly managed account program is available but inferior to every other firms offerings I have seen.   Corp & muni inventory is also poor and limited.  Edward Jones aslo reduces payout to reps on C share offerings to 30% thereby encouraging reps to push A shares to every client.  Even if it is not right for that client, there is still a stromg incentive to sell A shares.  selling of preferred funds is encouraged through use of revenue sharing agreements which helps reps obtain larger bonuses.  No outside wholesalers are permitted to contact Jones brokers to explain their products unless that Jones broker drops a ticket or contacts them prior.  Preferred vendors have unlimited access to offices and attend all Jones functions.

2.  Pushing reps to help other reps and expecting it as norm is far differnt than someone spreading the truth about that firm on this forum who goes out of it's very way to hide from it.

3.  I believe that in the long run top GP's make more money keeping the firm private.  It also allows them far less disclosure.  They also like the control.  Much of this would change as a public firm.

4.  I'm not sure what wirehouses expect as I've never worked at one.  I also know most indy reps are also not afraid to speak their mind either.  Almost all posters being indy is a bit of an overstatement.  I'd guess a little over 50%.

There's more but I GTG...I'm sure other will jump in..but I'd suggest you read some threads.

Nov 5, 2005 11:37 pm

[quote=vega74]

4. Isn't it striking that almost all posters here are independent? Perhaps the wirehouses and regional firms ask their reps not to spend their time on sites like this.

[/quote]

Reading the posts on this site, and following up with my own research and due diligence led me to go independant.  I wouldn't be surprised if that was true for others too.  That might explain the high percentage of ind. reps on this site.  They may not have started off ind when they first found it.

Like zacko said, read on. And follow the money........

Nov 5, 2005 11:51 pm

[quote=vega74]

3. A frequent theme is supposed GP greed, while it is a known fact that the firm has rejected multiple opportunities to sell or go public, in spite of great profit to the ownership. Doesn't this suggest money is not the only motivation for the ownership?

[/quote]

Never discount human greed.  Most important thing I learned in sales is people care first and foremost about themselves.  There is no doubt that Jones is a cash cow for the few chosen to be GP's, and this is only possible because of the lack of disclosure to reps and clients.   Where does that $1400/mo for tech go anyway?  If you are still typing four letter commands into a dark screen, you should wonder this too.

Nov 6, 2005 2:30 pm

VEGA

1)  They offer 4-5 funds and a couple of annuities.  Regardless of what these Reps tell you if you sell "other" products you will feel the heat.

2) LP and GP are dangled over the heads.  Just recently met a top producer who left Jones and he said they did this for years and when he decided to leave they then made the offer.  It just made him more angry.

3)  Does your firm pay bosses north of $1 million to be in charge of stock certificates received in the firm's vault?  Enough said although we could go on and on about this topic.

4)  Have no idea where you are going on this.

Let me ask you a question.  Why does Jones not offer true managed money alternatives?  You will see the theme to your questions and my question intersect at some point.

Nov 7, 2005 3:09 am

[quote=The Truth]

VEGA

1)  They offer 4-5 funds and a couple of annuities.  Regardless of what these Reps tell you if you sell "other" products you will feel the heat.

WoW!, what a "non'Truth" that is. In over a decade I have NEVER had anyone tell me what to sell. My top 10 funds are an equal mix of great preferred (CAIBX, AGTHX, FKINX) and non-preferred also.

2) LP and GP are dangled over the heads.  Just recently met a top producer who left Jones and he said they did this for years and when he decided to leave they then made the offer.  It just made him more angry.

Funny, LP is a prospectus item. They just "offered it to keep someone. You're so full of it.

3)  Does your firm pay bosses north of $1 million to be in charge of stock certificates received in the firm's vault?  Enough said although we could go on and on about this topic.

Hmm, that would be a rather small number of people. Likely not the "vault manager". Almost as good as the bonus your branch manager gets for pushing products on you.

4)  Have no idea where you are going on this.

Let me ask you a question.  Why does Jones not offer true managed money alternatives?  You will see the theme to your questions and my question intersect at some point.

Hmmm, maybe because SMA's are not the end all you seem to think they are!

I will always be a Guest here but maybe you need to become The Half-Truth !

[/quote]
Nov 7, 2005 4:24 pm

Guest1,

1) Your knowledge of what is available outside the preferred group is extremely limited.  Just as mine was when I was at Jones.  While you are not told what to sell--you are both paid more (bonus) and have much better access to the preferred group of funds.

2)  The truth is right.  Top producing IR's are often made offres to stay when they leave.  None of this is ever talked about but it's true.  Jones often hires execs from other firms to work in STL and makes them a GP as a signing bonus.  EVen if they never had brokerage experience.  I thought you would have known that.

3) Not sure what is being discussed here.

4) Managed money is not the revenue sharing cash machine that comes from selling A shares.  Clients for the most part like the fee based approach much better when it's explained to them properly.  Jones is already making more money from revenue sharing than they ever could in fee based.  21bps from hartford and the firms keeps 90% of it)  IT WOULD be a huge conflict of interest to collect revenue sharing dollars ina fee based account and they won't give it up. 

You keep telling yourself that the Jones way is better.  You have to...because for you--it's the only choice you have.

Also, jones brokers are not series 65/66 which is a required step to offer fee based accounts.