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Oct 15, 2006 12:46 pm

Ok bozo's and know it all's , no futher cuts this year. Banner year everyone is happy. Will raise minimum account to 50k per household. Brokers over 2million will get a raise. Creative bookkeeping will pay for this. Lower end producers sigh of relieve. Will offer wealth creation based on longivity. Stock up significantly. All is well until mid 2007. Remember what Gorman said however! We are judged by who low our bottom half is. MButler get a real job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Oct 15, 2006 3:39 pm
Elvis:

Ok bozo's and know it all's , no futher cuts this year. Banner year everyone is happy. Will raise minimum account to 50k per household. Brokers over 2million will get a raise. Creative bookkeeping will pay for this. Lower end producers sigh of relieve. Will offer wealth creation based on longivity. Stock up significantly. All is well until mid 2007. Remember what Gorman said however! We are judged by who low our bottom half is. MButler get a real job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I really hope your aren't a Morgan Stanley Advisor.  What is your basis for these remarks?  I've heard about the minimum household to 50k, that's no surprise.  I've heard about a Wealth Creation plan, that should give incentive to the larger producers.


Yes, Gorman said "We are judged by who our bottom half is", so why on earth would you not take steps to incent that lower half to grow their business?  The $2 million producer isn't going to grow at 20% next year.  Ten 200k producers should.  These are basic business principals, if you can't understand that, get out of the business.

Oct 15, 2006 9:24 pm

Do the math, why would you give incentives to a 200-300 producer who has been around 10-20 years. Why not the 400-900 producer? Generally speaking the 200k producer would have been fired at Merrill.



Oct 15, 2006 9:57 pm

I agree with Elvis's last statement reference the unliklieness anyone would invest in a $200k to $300k producer with an LOS of 10-20 years- for most of them are not going to change in production and they are usually "stuck" in that area unless they get some outside help, team up, etc.


I do think though that parameters will be set on these big producer incentives which will focus on recurring revenue.


Now I'm no Bozo, and sure don't know it all, but I cannot believe all is well at MS yet, but only time will tell.

Oct 15, 2006 11:15 pm

I'm not saying invest in 200k producers.... I'm saying incent them to get to the 300k+ mark.  That is what I believe MS is planning to do. 


The message being sent to the bottom half is this "get to 300k or freshen up the resume." 


The message IS NOT "get to 2million or freshen up the resume"


There will not be any cuts, people under 300k will just gradually leave on their own.  I do believe providing incentives at the 300 level is a good thing.


Elvis... if they start the incentives at 300k, they will also apply above that level.  That's the beauty of a grid system.

Oct 16, 2006 10:02 am
Elvis:

Do the math, why would you give incentives to a 200-300 producer who has been around 10-20 years. Why not the 400-900 producer?


They're providing incentives to everyone above $300k.


Elvis:

Generally speaking the 200k producer would have been fired at Merrill.


I would hope so, because MS fired those below $225 a year ago.



[/quote]
Oct 16, 2006 10:04 am
haRDcorp:

 but I cannot believe all is well at MS yet, but only time will tell.



Believe what you want, it really doesn't matter one bit...

Oct 17, 2006 6:24 am
mikebutler222:
haRDcorp:

 but I cannot believe all is well at MS yet, but only time will tell.



Believe what you want, it really doesn't matter one bit...



Hey Mike- who pissed in your soup to make you write such a classless comment? Did I offend you in any way or are you just another frustrated FA who needed to vent- and instead of going to the gym or taking a walk it was easier to just bunch in a ridiculous comment.


I think I've actually met you before . . . come to think of it, yes. I have. Did you get that dollar I put in your bucket?

Oct 17, 2006 9:42 am
haRDcorp:
mikebutler222:
haRDcorp:

 but I cannot believe all is well at MS yet, but only time will tell.



Believe what you want, it really doesn't matter one bit...



Hey Mike- who pissed in your soup to make you write such a classless comment?


Classless? Well, from where I sit you said you "can't believe", and gave us the 500th version of MS will sell its retail arm, and I replied it pretty much doesn't matter what you believe, those are the facts. Did I strike a nerve with my reply?


haRDcorp:

I think I've actually met you before . . . come to think of it, yes. I have. Did you get that dollar I put in your bucket?



I did, thanks. You wouldn't believe what your sister did in exchange for it. 

Oct 17, 2006 11:15 pm

You obviosly spend too much time alone. Go outside and have some adult conversation and work on your mannerisms. I did not say anything more than "we'll see" with MS- fair enough since I've recruited more of them in the last 12 months than any other firm.


As far as the sister comment goes- ya da ya da ya da- surely your courage is limited to this forum, although I have read some other blogs and you actually have some productive comments when you're not busy acting like a 2 year old.

Oct 17, 2006 11:50 pm
haRDcorp:

I did not say anything more than "we'll see" with MS- fair enough since I've recruited more of them in the last 12 months than any other firm.


You said you "can't believe", and being a recruiter, that's in your financial interest. You also ran that tired line about MS selling it's retail arm, again, typical recruiter scare-speak.


The tide's turned, pal, there's a massive net gain in assets and new producers. Ask ML about it.

Oct 18, 2006 10:34 am
mikebutler222:
haRDcorp:

I did not say anything more than "we'll see" with MS- fair enough since I've recruited more of them in the last 12 months than any other firm.


You said you "can't believe", and being a recruiter, that's in your financial interest. You also ran that tired line about MS selling it's retail arm, again, typical recruiter scare-speak.



Since you brought it up, here's my recruiter-scare speak.

There's a lot of "wait and see" out there.  I would not be surprised if the vast majority of premium candidates at MS have started an ongoing dialogue with a recruiter somewhere.

They're not listening to rumors anymore.  They're waiting for results.  If things go well, then everything is okay.  But there will be a mass exodus if expectations are not met.


Oct 18, 2006 10:36 am

Mike- please don't insult me buy calling me a recruiter. I've worked too hard in this industry to be filed down to something that requires no licenses, no qualifications, and no real appreciation for sitting in the seat of a Financial Advisor.


Last time I checked- recruiters get an incentive commission (and an awefully large one at that) at placing advisors with whichever firm will take them at the right price- I do not.


As a matter of fact, I have 60 financial advisors (8 recruited from MS) with me- so, figure it out.


Because I don't frequent this forum, except for being referred to it a couple of weeks ago- I don't know who you are, or anything about you. There two Mike Butlers on the NASDR site, one at Morgan Keegan and one at Cascadia Capital- and it sounds like you are passionate about Morgan Stanley- so maybe you are there-


you're not the janitor there are you? are you an intern? non-registered? perhaps your not a Mike Butler (stage name?) are you a stripper? Come on, laugh a little. I've not beef with you- just was letting you know I thought your comments were unnecessarily harsh.


If I took true offense for everything that was said about my firm or me- I probably would be in a corner crying


Thanks for the joust-

Oct 18, 2006 10:42 am

My apologies to MikeButler and anyone else who are witnessing this thread degraded down to two grown men jousting back and forth (and to the typos that plagued my last entry). If anyone has anything significant to add to the thread, please continue from where the applicable last comments were made. Again, my apologies for the soap opera.

Oct 18, 2006 10:48 am

<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 


JCadieux:
mikebutler222:
haRDcorp:

I did not say anything more than "we'll see" with <?:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />MS- fair enough since I've recruited more of them in the last 12 months than any other firm.


You said you "can't believe", and being a recruiter, that's in your financial interest. You also ran that tired line about MS selling it's retail arm, again, typical recruiter scare-speak.




Since you brought it up, here's my recruiter-scare speak.

There's a lot of "wait and see" out there.  I would not be surprised if the vast majority of premium candidates at MS have started an ongoing dialogue with a recruiter somewhere.

They're not listening to rumors anymore.  They're waiting for results.  If things go well, then everything is okay.  But there will be a mass exodus if expectations are not met.



You guys are just never going to give this a rest. Causing unease, floating rumors, “I hear plenty of offices are closing”, “Another big team just left”, “I’ve heard the retail arm is going to be spun off”, just the general life-is-better-elsewhere stuff. You’ll never hear a recruiter say “You’re in a good place, I see they’re recruiting well from the competition. Hey, how about the increases in the grid and the bonuses, eh? The stock sure has climbed”.


The results are in, productivity is up, recruiting is strong (ask ML about some of their big producers and managers moving) pay is up, technology has improved greatly. Most people are happy Mack is back and like Gorman’s progress. You’re better off playing the “life is better elsewhere” stuff with other candidates.


Oct 18, 2006 10:51 am
haRDcorp:

As a matter of fact, I have 60 financial advisors (8 recruited from MS) with me- so, figure it out.


With you? On your pool cleaning team?


haRDcorp:

Because I don't frequent this forum, except for being referred to it a couple of weeks ago- I don't know who you are, or anything about you. There two Mike Butlers on the NASDR site, one at Morgan Keegan and one at Cascadia Capital- and it sounds like you are passionate about Morgan Stanley- so maybe you are there-


Right. My real name is Mike Butler and yours is haRDcorp.


Look, you can believe what you like, as I've said all along. Just don't fool yourself into thinking that what you "believe" changes reality one bit.

Oct 18, 2006 11:06 am

haRDcorp., for the record, I think it's safe to say that "mike" isn't using his real name.  Also for the record, I'm not either, although I have toyed with the idea of petitioning the court to change my name to I. M. Indy.


It has been rumored that "Dude" and "Babbling Looney" are using their real names, though.

Oct 18, 2006 11:20 am

Back to the point of the thread "expect a major announcement at MS". It has fizzled like every "they're spinning off the retail arm", "they're going to have another round of cuts" and "everyone below $300k is about to get canned" thread, and that was my only point.

Oct 18, 2006 11:23 am
Indyone:

haRDcorp., for the record, I think it's safe to say that "mike" isn't using his real name.  Also for the record, I'm not either, although I have toyed with the idea of petitioning the court to change my name to I. M. Indy.


It has been rumored that "Dude" and "Babbling Looney" are using their real names, though.



I checked with a friend--his name is MikeButler333 not MikeButler222.  Very clever disguise.

Oct 18, 2006 11:38 am
mikebutler222:
JCadieux:
mikebutler222:
haRDcorp:

I did not say anything more than "we'll see" with MS- fair enough since I've recruited more of them in the last 12 months than any other firm.


You said you "can't believe", and being a recruiter, that's in your financial interest. You also ran that tired line about MS selling it's retail arm, again, typical recruiter scare-speak.




Since you brought it up, here's my recruiter-scare speak.

There's a lot of "wait and see" out there.  I would not be surprised if the vast majority of premium candidates at MS have started an ongoing dialogue with a recruiter somewhere.

They're not listening to rumors anymore.  They're waiting for results.  If things go well, then everything is okay.  But there will be a mass exodus if expectations are not met.



You guys are just never going to give this a rest. Causing unease, floating rumors, “I hear plenty of offices are closing”, “Another big team just left”, “I’ve heard the retail arm is going to be spun off”, just the general life-is-better-elsewhere stuff. You’ll never hear a recruiter say “You’re in a good place, I see they’re recruiting well from the competition. Hey, how about the increases in the grid and the bonuses, eh? The stock sure has climbed”.



Whoa!  Relax!  Go and re-read my earlier post!  I'm agreeing with you!  People are ignoring the rumors and waiting for results.  I don't see how you could expect anything better than that at this point in the game.

You're very aware of the rumors.  Rumors spread.  They don't need my help.

There was a big rush last year.  That's calm now.  There are also some changes that will make it easier to move your book in or out.  Things are not rumor driven any more.  What' I'm seeing right now from MS candidates is a lot of "wait and see".  

And I FREQUENTLY tell people "You're in a good place".  Actually, I usualy say "Sounds like this isn't a good time for you to move.  But I'm glad we started the relationship.  May I check in with you again next June?"

Anybody who's read Bill Good knows the value of pits, green cherries, hot leads and ThankYouVeryMuch.

There is a high-end and a low-end to the brokerage recruiting industry;
just as there is a high-end and a low-end to financial services.

In my previous posts, I frequently say that you guys are way too good at sales to "get sold".  You recognize sales tactics right off the bat.

Good recruiters focus on helping both sides get access to the right information about each other in the limited time available.  The more information you have, the higher your comfort level in your decision.  And higher comfort levels lead to better offers and smoother transitions.

I'm not alone.  There are a LOT of good recruiters out there.  Some of them are on this board.  But please don't confuse real recruiters with the high pressure resume throwers out there.