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EJ Changes Below Expectation Rules

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Mar 3, 2009 9:06 pm

Some way to what?

Mar 3, 2009 9:09 pm

I just met with a guy who I sold an AIG VA to a couple years ago and he’s tickled pink. It was a relief to actually visit with a satisfied customer for once.

  Now if AIG can just manage to honor all of those guarantees...
Mar 3, 2009 10:23 pm

[quote=iceco1d][quote=B24]

  Imagine starting a fee-based business from zero.  You wouldn't eat for years [/quote]   Yup.  I can verify this!  Seriously.[/quote]   Fortunately for you (please do correct me if I'm wrong), you don't have the house, wife, kids, etc. to support.  Not good or bad, but someone in their "later years" (which could mean many things) may not possibly be able to pull it off financially without a "startup salary", which really are only offered by the wirehouses (Jones gives you a little).  If I had done it when I was 25 or something, no problem.  But I also don't think I would have been successful at this business at 25.  Chicken or the egg.....
Mar 9, 2009 1:59 pm

I like to hear more about the specifics of the change in performance expectations? What did they change the % to before going on goals?

Mar 9, 2009 4:26 pm

Anyone below 30% for now.

Apr 10, 2009 6:23 am

Ok, so I’ve seen you guys post a lot of things (both positive and negative) over the eight years I’ve been a broker. Lest we forget, we are all in the same business, which is helping our clients achieve their goals. That said, I thought I could add a little regarding EDJ. I started in 2001, in a metropolitan area (some of you may call it over-served, saturated, etc.). I didn’t know anyone. I didn’t grow up here. I was fresh out of college and 22 years old. So, I did what any aspiring new advisor would do, and I cold-called. It just so happened that I did it face to face, since I started at EDJ, but it would have been basically the same exercise had I started somewhere else. Lo and behold, it worked. In the midst of what was (at the time) the second worst bear market since the great depression, I managed to go out and build a business by talking to (primarily) people who were already clients of other advisors. It’s amazing how the basics work. Now, eight years later, I’m amazed at how people draw an iron curtain in the sand between firms. I am extremely content at Jones (in fact, I have held damned near every role in my region other than Regional Leader). I have helped, and will continue to help, recruit qualified advisors to EDJ. What I don’t understand, and probably never will, is the black-and-white attitude that most on this forum have between whatever they are experiencing now, and what they either have experienced in the past and/or may possibly experience in the future. Not every firm is for every person. Let me repeat that…not every firm is for every person. The key is to find the place that works the best for your clients and for you. If you are brand-new, find the firm that will give you the best start.



I realize, after eight years of reading but not posting, that I will probably find people who will lambast (sp) me for staying at Jones, as well as people who have near-fatal doses of Kool-Aid. It is to those who are somewhere in the middle that I speak: This environment is not easy. It is not pleasant. But nothing that is worthwhile is easy or pleasant. People pay us, regardless of the firm we work for, to help them retire with dignity, stay retired, educate their kids/grandkids, and pass their assets to the next generation with as little friction as possible. LET US NOT FORGET THESE POINTS! Sorry for the long post, but I guess it’s just the better part of a decade having built up.



My best.

Apr 10, 2009 6:28 am

Oh, I forgot the EDJ part…I have quite a bit of loyalty for a firm that would hire me out of college, provide training and a mentor, help me mature as an advisor, not to mention as a person, and still allow me to run my business as I see fit, so long as it is legal, ethical, and profitable. If you are one of the Kool-Aid prohibitionists, it is on these points that I imagine we will have a conversation!

Apr 10, 2009 10:27 am

StLAdvisor - Here is where I have a problem.  You are thirty years old and other than a few jobs in college and maybe a few internships (possibly some high school jobs), you have no knowledge of anything outside of Jones.  I’m not saying you are not content, but if you don’t know what else is out there, how can you make a comparison and know whether or not you would be happier somewhere else?

  The answer is, you don't.  The Jones culture is all-encompassing, you are tied to the firm as surely as a meth addict is to his pusher.    I have bashed Jones and bashed Jones over and over.  Most of that was my problem.  I knew what I was doing when I joined Jones.  There were a few things I didn't know, but I found them out and I do feel like the experience I was promised wasn't the experience I received.   And our conversation continues, because you don't run a business.  You run an office for Jones.    As long as you realize that, we can get along fine:)   And some things are black and white.
Apr 10, 2009 1:50 pm

Moraen, few things:

  1. It doesn't matter if he's never worked anywhere else.  If he is happy and can serve his clients well, why does it matter if he "might" be happier somewhere else?  Happiness is subjective.  You picked whatever B/D you picked.  How do you know you wouldn't be happier with another B/D?  And just because you are happy currently, doesn't mean that 100% of the FA's that work through your B/D are happy.  Just because YOU had a bad experience with Jones, doesn't mean that EVERYONE is unhappy at Jones.  Let's be realistic, there are over 11,000 FA's at Jones.  A few of them are happy.   2. Lots of us that have worked prior to this business knew that we could possibly make more money at another company, in another career, or could possibly work for a "better" company.  But generally, we were happy and content, and the fear of the unkown, or the danger of the unknown (maybe a new boss would suck, maybe I get the new job, then 6 months later they ask me to transfer to Toledo, maybe things get bad and the "new kid" gets laid off first, etc.) is more dangerous than staying put (you know, "the Devil you know vs. the Devil you don't know").   3. I have been married for 15 years.  Got married relatively young.  Dated her for years before being married.  Sure, I was with other girls before her.  Some were prettier, or had bigger $%^&.  Am I happy?  Absolutely.  Is she a pain in the a$$ sometimes?  What wife isn't?  Would I leave her because I "might" be happier somewhere else?  I mean, geez, I've been with her most of my adult life, I don't know any better.  I see all these really hot chicks, and I wonder what "that" would be like.  Absolutely not.  I've built a good life with her, I'm real happy, and frankly, I don't care about or need whatever else is out there.  But I bet there are other guys that wouldn't be happy with her (she's a little Irish "hothead"!).   4. He never said he "owns" the business.  But he does run the business.  Symantics.  And not everyone is interested in going solo.  I know plenty of guys that haev thought about going indy, but ultimately decided that the increase in pay and freedom was not worth the simplicity they had at Jones of just opening the door in the morning and not worrying about too much else (yes, I know, being indy is "so easy" - some people just don't want to go through the hassle of finding out).   I think the bottom line is that there is absolutely nothing wrong with someone being happy at Jones.  And it doesn't matter whether you have been anywhere else or not.  It just seems wrong to me that people come on here and claim "I was at Jones.  I hated it.  They screwed me.  They're liars.  You have to go indy.  It's so much better.  You Jones meatheads don't know what you don't know".  Why can't you just let people be happy?  Now, I am all for flaming the guys that come on here and are obviously wearing green beer-goggles.  That's fun stuff.  But those are usually the 23 year-old newbies that have just come back from their indoctrination in STL.   See some of us, even though we have only been with Jones (in this industry), actually KNOW what else is out there.  But maybe, just MAYBE, we like what we have.     ....exhale
Apr 10, 2009 2:44 pm

Funny thing is I could have written the exact same post STLAdvisor did about 12 months before I ultimately left and went Indy. How quickly things can change, and I am glad for that.

Apr 10, 2009 4:03 pm

B24 - I think it does matter. Life experience matters. You were at different places before you were at Jones. If you haven’t experience life in other capacities… it’s hard to know what things are really like.   Like you said, you dated other women before your wife, but you KNOW that all women are crazy, b/c you’ve been there.



He said he runs HIS business. That’s not semantics - word choice has nothing to do with it.



Like you said, you KNOW what is out there. He doesn’t. When I was in the Army, I thought that was how life was supposed to be. When I was in corporate management, I thought that was how life was supposed to be. By the time I got to Jones, I learned to be a little discerning.



I never said everyone was unhappy at Jones. I just don’t think you can talk about how great something is unless you’ve experienced something else.

Apr 10, 2009 4:48 pm

I guess I still have to disagree.  Happiness and contentment are subjective.  Either you are or you are not.  Just because you aren’t aware that you could be just as happy, or happier, doing something else, doesn’t negate the fact that you are happy.  Because basically you are saying that everyone at Jones, Merrill, SB, MS, etc. can’t possibly claim to be happy unless they have worked somewhere else?  That’s just an absurd statement.  Then again, you have never worked at any of those other wirehouses, so you would have no idea whether they could possibly be happy or not.

  And as far as running the business, I run "MY" business here.  I play by some rules, and I pay a fee to Jones to cover most of my expenses.  But I generate the revenue, I hire my assistant, and if I leave, I bring MY clients with me.  If I am not mistaken, a few FA's have left Jones before and brought "their" clients with them.
Apr 10, 2009 5:40 pm

[quote=B24] I guess I still have to disagree. Happiness and contentment are subjective. Either you are or you are not. Just because you aren’t aware that you could be just as happy, or happier, doing something else, doesn’t negate the fact that you are happy. Because basically you are saying that everyone at Jones, Merrill, SB, MS, etc. can’t possibly claim to be happy unless they have worked somewhere else? That’s just an absurd statement. Then again, you have never worked at any of those other wirehouses, so you would have no idea whether they could possibly be happy or not.



And as far as running the business, I run “MY” business here. I play by some rules, and I pay a fee to Jones to cover most of my expenses. But I generate the revenue, I hire my assistant, and if I leave, I bring MY clients with me. If I am not mistaken, a few FA’s have left Jones before and brought “their” clients with them.[/quote]



True (I did). But at Jones, you don’t “own” the relationship. I’ll agree to disagree with you. And they come after you if you take clients - trust me.



I DO know that I would not like it at Merrill and other wires and banks - because I have had other life experiences that tell me I can’t work for anybody. Life experience - You don’t have enough when you are 22 to decide that you are going to be somewhere forever - and if you’ve already been there eight years - it’s unlikely you’ll leave Jones (or Merrill or anywhere else if all you’ve ever known is that).



I never said they couldn’t claim to be happy - or that they weren’t GENUINELY happy - I’m sure some of you are, especially those not "checking out their options ". They can be happy, but to me it’s not quite a full existence and as others have said, you truly, “Don’t know what you don’t know”. So I’ll agree to disagree with you.



Jones is a great place for a LOT of people. But how do you know if it is THE place? I know that my wife is THE one.
Apr 10, 2009 6:22 pm

No Mas.

Apr 10, 2009 8:52 pm

B-24 When you die and go to the other side, do you think your soul mate and your office will be waiting for you. I don't think you can compare your wife to a pile of bricks and mortar. Wait EJ owns that, I mean a book of names because their investments will not mean crap then. Trying too hard to make your point. Unless she was the first one to get drunk in VEGAS with you.

Most people look at going Indy as the final step in this industry. If your hierarchy of needs are met before you get there, then there is no reason to go further. Going Indy has a great increase in responsibility. If you get tired of EJ, you can walk away and that office will not miss a beat (2000 newbs a year itching for an open office). If you are Indy and decide one morning you never want to talk to another client, your custodian, B/D etc again that is not very well possible. (Discloser..I have only worked at Jones, so I can not speak for other places.)
Apr 10, 2009 10:47 pm

Jax, I have to admit, I have no idea what point you’re trying to make (whether you agree or disagree with me). If I am not mistaken, and indy can walk away from their practice and the B/D will continue to custody the assets, and their call center will take client instructions (at minimum). And most indies make arragnements with other indies to cover each other in event of death/disability.



But I will say, you’re wrong about the Vegas thing. My wife means a lot to me, and the fact that you make a reference to getting her drunk in Vegas is offensive to me. It was an arranged marriage between me and her father. I had the winning bid.

Apr 10, 2009 11:23 pm

[quote=JAXSON]

B-24 When you die and go to the other side, do you think your soul mate and your office will be waiting for you. I don't think you can compare your wife to a pile of bricks and mortar. Wait EJ owns that, I mean a book of names because their investments will not mean crap then. Trying too hard to make your point. Unless she was the first one to get drunk in VEGAS with you.  

Most people look at going Indy as the final step in this industry. If your hierarchy of needs are met before you get there, then there is no reason to go further. Going Indy has a great increase in responsibility. If you get tired of EJ, you can walk away and that office will not miss a beat (2000 newbs a year itching for an open office). If you are Indy and decide one morning you never want to talk to another client, your custodian, B/D etc again that is not very well possible. (Discloser..I have only worked at Jones, so I can not speak for other places.) [/quote] [quote=B24]Jax, I have to admit, I have no idea what point you're trying to make (whether you agree or disagree with me). If I am not mistaken, and indy can walk away from their practice and the B/D will continue to custody the assets, and their call center will take client instructions (at minimum). And most indies make arragnements with other indies to cover each other in event of death/disability.

But I will say, you're wrong about the Vegas thing. My wife means a lot to me, and the fact that you make a reference to getting her drunk in Vegas is offensive to me. It was an arranged marriage between me and her father. I had the winning bid. [/quote]   Winning bid? Are you sure about that?   More then likely I am disagreeing with you. No offense, just the way I am.   I was making two comments. First one was in reference to you comparing your wife to your business and my assumption that she probably means a lot more to you then your business. And to crack a joke with the Vegas thing. I guess the losing bidder got her sister?   The second comment was stating my opinion on a reason of going Indy or not. I personally would like to have as much control as legally possible in my business. So for me, I would be better off on my own. Others want to max out their income potential. And the reasons go on and on. But one thing is for sure with more control, potential income, etc comes more responsibility.
Apr 11, 2009 12:39 am
Moraen, What about all the people at Jones who HAVE worked for other firms/industries? Are they all unhappy? Do any of them have "life experience"? Ever consider that maybe YOU don't know what you don't know. After all, the military, corporate mgmt, and your current role don't encompass the entire gamut of life experience. If your suggesting that young people out of college should job hop to gain life experience...well, I'm sure most people would disagree with you. It's true that the average person goes through something like seven career changes in their lifetime, but American culture still looks highly upon the people who stayed at one company for umpteen million years and now have a healthy retirement package. I'm not suggesting that is the path for everyone, but it's far from being a bad thing. Also, according to statistics, you have about 4 more career changes to go...you must not be truly happy as an IAR. Silly isn't it? It's just as silly as your sweeping judgments of other peoples' life experience and happiness. Seriously, you've had (from what you've provided) two different jobs during your adult life prior to where you are now and suddenly you're qualified to tell others that they need more life experience...hardly. You've chosen a different path and have seen different things than anyone else in the world. Others will choose a path where they end up working for or running the same company their entire life. Your's isn't right and their's isn't wrong. They're no worse than you, and you're no better than them. Again, your sweeping judgments to the contrary are simply false.
Apr 11, 2009 3:37 am

Marty - I was speaking specifically to this guy.  Not everyone else.  Lots of people are happy with Jones for very good reasons.  But I think it’s a little naive to think that someone straight out of college has enough life experience to judge the best place for themselves.

  And I do consider that I don't know what I don't know.  Every day, I realize how much more I DON'T know.    If I had known a lot more, my transition to owning an RIA would have been a lot smoother.   I realize that my experience is not EVERYTHING.  It doesn't have to be.  My point is simply that someone who is 22 (do you remember what that was like?) is simply ill-equipped to make a lifetime decision and say that they are at the place that will make them happy.   I know one person who is an exception to that (there are probably more), but this guy was homeless when he was fourteen and survived and even thrived on the streets.  He is now in medical school.   I've seen 22 year olds who thought they knew everything suddenly (in one hour) change their whole perspective on life.   And yes, having different careers qualifies me to tell people who have never even had one that they need more life experience.  Just like someone who has more than that is qualified to tell me the same.  Why?  Because I do.  Will my additional life experience be work-related?  Unlikely, but certainly possible.  It could be that in ten years I sell this thing because I've reached the point that I no longer enjoy it and I'll write books.  My life experience comes from fostering special needs kids.    I just don't think you can make a judgement like that without some additional experience.  Sorry to ruffle your feathers.