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Jan 29, 2009 11:15 pm
Morphius:

[quote=Fud Box] Hell, I don’t even start till Monday, but I’m not going to have to worry about it cuz I’m gonna be a rock star!!! [/quote]


Wow.........................just wow.     And thanks for the vote of confidence, monopolybet.
Jan 30, 2009 1:21 am

Yo Paulie, you’re not alone. Don’t listen to these sycophantic, Kool-Aid drinking lemmings. They all work so damn hard. Bet they door-knocked their knuckles raw. Please. I had years of industry experience and a proven track record of production when I decided to make the courageous leap to Jones from a well known financial institution (they chased me for two months before I finally relented. The prospect of ‘owning my own business’ is what did me in). Raised just under $2 million from my bedroom in less than 4-months and was about 150% of standard in month 5 exceeding expectations when my RL threatened to fire me on the grounds that I was in violation of one of Sacred Tenets of Jones: The hallowed “3 Ps” - the participation “p” to be exact. Was not aware of the fact that the dialing-for-dollars workshops were absolutely mandatory since many regions don’t engage in them. Especially for a seasoned vet who not only made 300 dials a day for 4 yrs. back in the '80’s working for a large wirehouse, but also having conducted professional telephone workshops as a t & d consultant for my former employer. Oh well. Unbeknownst to me, my absence frosted the RL’s nuts. He called me and proceeded to run the gamut of insults, screaming that I was a failure, lacked judgment; was lazy, disorganized and that I disrespected him and the region. He punctuated the call by screaming that he had no confidence in my ability and then issued this ultimatum: I had one last chance to redeem myself or I’d be sorry. I was number 1 in my segment at the time of the call. Well, needless to say, my spirit was crushed and I felt demoralized. Thought I was doing everything right. My next meeting, the monthly mundane Saturday Morning sleeper for new FAs, was less than a week away. I had never missed a one. The day arrived and I was up at 4AM and out the door by 6 to anxiously drive over two hours to the meeting location (have these idiots ever heard of GoToMeeting?). I knew I was about to be confronted by the RL when I arrived and was stressed over this. The weather was treacherous - snow and wind and ice - yet the meeting was not called off. Ten miles shy of my final destination, my brand new car hit a patch of ice and went careening out of control. $6,000 worth of damage to my vehicle and sustained injuries to my back and neck pretty much dealt me the final blow. My production suffered as a result. I was restricted from travel and, under a physician’s orders, placed on disability. My percent of standard fell from 150 to 69 to 38. My RL made good on his threat. He contacted my DL, who was apprised of my condition and aware of my physical limitations. He knew how challenging it would be to reach the performance goal from the confines of my back brace, and placed me on the 4-month termination plan. Three weeks after my performance plan was put into effect, I received a call from my DL stating that he and the RL would soon be consider making an ‘employment decision’. The following morning, I attempted to initiate a $25k sell order for a client but was unable to do. I was denied access. Twenty mins later, I received a call from my DL. He was not sympathetic. I was terminated this morning. I contacted HR and they would not give me the time of day. The region is literally imploding under broken leadership. The RL fiddles while Rome burns. Go in peace and ask for the order. ,

Jan 30, 2009 3:06 am

The EDJ model is so very, very behind the times. There is only two groups that have any value to this company.  The most important group in the almighty seg 4/5 broker.  The second most important group is the new fa’s. That is the mantra, growth, growth growth. Not growth in experience, but new fa’s. Don’t worry your replacementS have already been hired. It is a hiring machine…Rock stars are everwhere waiting to door knock… One thing you said I do believe is true. They do yell at the other FA’s is amazes me how old fashion they are, It makes me wonder where HR is at any time? Best of luck to you…gotta love them, they really do care about one thing…themselves. They are not afraid to tell you they do not get paid to help you. You are right the home office has NO idea what is really going on in the region.

Jan 30, 2009 3:34 am
MoneyNeverSleeps:

Yo Paulie, you’re not alone. Don’t listen to these sycophantic, Kool-Aid drinking lemmings. They all work so damn hard. Bet they door-knocked their knuckles raw. Please. I had years of industry experience and a proven track record of production when I decided to make the courageous leap to Jones from a well known financial institution (they chased me for two months before I finally relented. The prospect of ‘owning my own business’ is what did me in). Raised just under $2 million from my bedroom in less than 4-months and was about 150% of standard in month 5 exceeding expectations when my RL threatened to fire me on the grounds that I was in violation of one of Sacred Tenets of Jones: The hallowed “3 Ps” - the participation “p” to be exact. Was not aware of the fact that the dialing-for-dollars workshops were absolutely mandatory since many regions don’t engage in them. Especially for a seasoned vet who not only made 300 dials a day for 4 yrs. back in the '80’s working for a large wirehouse, but also having conducted professional telephone workshops as a t & d consultant for my former employer. Oh well. Unbeknownst to me, my absence frosted the RL’s nuts. He called me and proceeded to run the gamut of insults, screaming that I was a failure, lacked judgment; was lazy, disorganized and that I disrespected him and the region. He punctuated the call by screaming that he had no confidence in my ability and then issued this ultimatum: I had one last chance to redeem myself or I’d be sorry. I was number 1 in my segment at the time of the call. Well, needless to say, my spirit was crushed and I felt demoralized. Thought I was doing everything right. My next meeting, the monthly mundane Saturday Morning sleeper for new FAs, was less than a week away. I had never missed a one. The day arrived and I was up at 4AM and out the door by 6 to anxiously drive over two hours to the meeting location (have these idiots ever heard of GoToMeeting?). I knew I was about to be confronted by the RL when I arrived and was stressed over this. The weather was treacherous - snow and wind and ice - yet the meeting was not called off. Ten miles shy of my final destination, my brand new car hit a patch of ice and went careening out of control. $6,000 worth of damage to my vehicle and sustained injuries to my back and neck pretty much dealt me the final blow. My production suffered as a result. I was restricted from travel and, under a physician’s orders, placed on disability. My percent of standard fell from 150 to 69 to 38. My RL made good on his threat. He contacted my DL, who was apprised of my condition and aware of my physical limitations. He knew how challenging it would be to reach the performance goal from the confines of my back brace, and placed me on the 4-month termination plan. Three weeks after my performance plan was put into effect, I received a call from my DL stating that he and the RL would soon be consider making an ‘employment decision’. The following morning, I attempted to initiate a $25k sell order for a client but was unable to do. I was denied access. Twenty mins later, I received a call from my DL. He was not sympathetic. I was terminated this morning. I contacted HR and they would not give me the time of day. The region is literally imploding under broken leadership. The RL fiddles while Rome burns. Go in peace and ask for the order. ,

  Yep... Going to have to call BS on this one.. RLs don't care about anything except production, I didn't have to go to segment meetings because I was way about standard("I have a client coming in" "Ok maybe next time")   If you were so productive why would limiting your travel affect anything... You said you could dial and didn't need the help..    
Jan 30, 2009 4:45 am
Fud Box:

[quote=Soothsayer]If they are let go then the non-compete does not apply.  Just what B24 said, Jones can’t have it every which way.

I had my lawyer look over this agreement prior to accepting the position. There is  a standard non-solicit...you'll find this in several industries. Basically, "don't try to get any of your old clients to leave by any means whatsoever".   The second is the reimbursement of training costs. It doesn't specify whether you quit or get fired, it just says that your employment is terminated. I checked with EJ's legal department to get clarification b/c I thought it didn't apply if you got fired. Not the case. No matter whether termination was voluntary or involuntary, the statement applies. This was done on purpose to prevent people from abusing the system by "trying to get fired".   The cost of training decreases every full quarter following your 13'th month of employment, so if you only have one year left of the 3 year agreement, then the liability is for less than $75K.   Take particular note that neither agreement is a "non-compete". However, the second agreement does effectively create a non-compete based on the fact that $75K is a lot of money to most of us, and would make remaining in the industry cost prohibitive barring other circumstances.   That's what I meant when I said it was air tight. Legally, it's perfectly air tight and actionable if they so chose. Real experiences may be a different story.   Personally, I didn't apply for this job intending to quit, and I figured that if I got fired in under three years then this line of work probably wasn't for me. [/quote]   There's an EDJ contract, and then there are the various 50 states with 50 different sets of labor laws.  Every state is different.  Some have voluminous labor law, others might be described as scant.  In any event, let me tell you what water the EDJ contract will hold in court (should it ever come to that; and, trust me, it won't!) if they choose to terminate your employment for poor production, not following the "recipe", or whatever else they can come drum up on you.  Are you ready?  Here it is:     (crickets chirping in background)
Jan 30, 2009 4:57 am

C’mon Squash - have you forgotten the Jones recipe for success? Maybe what you need is a refresher course! 25 face-to-face contacts per day, 125 per week. Every dollar I have under management was achieved via a handshake. The phone gigs are billed as a ‘skill building exercise’ for those FAs who suffer from call reluctance or are underperforming. Regardless, to be insulted and threatened by you leader is just plain wrong. Nice try though.

Jan 30, 2009 5:00 am

[quote=MoneyNeverSleeps]Yo Paulie, you’re not alone…

…Go in peace and ask for the order. ,[/quote]

Maybe they let you go because you couldn’t find the Enter button on your keyboard?

Jan 30, 2009 5:12 am

I should have pressed the Escape key long ago.

Jan 30, 2009 11:29 pm

Looks like many are going to be given the your career is over phone call. The little dots are dropping and the line is still climbing on the FA performance screen. The region is seeking to move out those who don’t drink the koolaide and replace them with the HUGE influx of ML/SB brokers who are waiting to get a EDJ office. They feel the NEW and IMPROVED transfer broker plan is having them flying to be a koolaide drinker. Replacing little dots with brokers who have assests is probably a faster track to profitability then door knocking. How many ML/SB are dying to move the EDJ? Do you know any?

Jan 31, 2009 12:39 am

I don’t know of a single ML/SB rep, and I know quite a few…perhaps only the desperate. Jones will hire just about any one with a pulse . I don’t think that a 40% payout or a 6 mutual fund company restriction will appeal to the ML/SB crowd, especially when they can take their big books to one of the many indy firms for a 80%-90% payout along with hundreds of investment options for their clients…Run away as fast as you can.

Jan 31, 2009 1:18 am

This news of waves on new transfer brokers is coming from  the inner circle. in our region.   In over 3 years I  have seen way more broker transfer out then have ever transferred in. 

Jan 31, 2009 3:00 am

Are you two talking to each other?  You should just PM each other…or maybe become friends on Facebook or Myspace or whatever that crap is you children do these days.

Jan 31, 2009 4:44 am
MoneyNeverSleeps:

C’mon Squash - have you forgotten the Jones recipe for success? Maybe what you need is a refresher course! 25 face-to-face contacts per day, 125 per week. Every dollar I have under management was achieved via a handshake. The phone gigs are billed as a ‘skill building exercise’ for those FAs who suffer from call reluctance or are underperforming. Regardless, to be insulted and threatened by you leader is just plain wrong. Nice try though.

  That maybe the corporate recipe, but the "real" recipe is make sure you are exceeding expectations.. Come on it's not hard... Working at a wirehouse is 10x tougher. I have a friend at MS who has to bring in $7M in his first year to just be at average goals... There were people at Jones who didn't have $7M by the end of year 2 and still didn't get canned..   Yes Jones is letting a lot of people go, but these people weren't knockin the cover off the ball to begin with. I hate the excuse "We are in a down market" these are the best markets ever to pick up tons of clients from bad brokers or someone who isn't paying attention to his book..   Getting Insulted and threatened goes with the territory, people insult me all day long when I call them...But I don't care and I call the next guy.. 3 appts set for tomorrow, total $1.5M in assets...   please stop whining about Jones... chances are you would have failed much quicker anywhere else..   By the way just for clarification(Former Jones guy, indy now) there are 6 prefered funds, but you can basically use most fund families that charge a upfront fee, and you can hold almost anything...
Jan 31, 2009 6:14 am

When I was in the biz years ago, $1.5M was an average month. You were probably in diapers at the time. And by the way, let’s get one thing straight: I make no excuses for myself. My production fell as a result of the injuries I sustained in an auto accident. I was actively selling for just three months prior to my accident and raised $2M just like that. Not too shabby. All accomplished while the economy was tanking. You’re right, it’s not hard at all. Furthermore, the threats of termination and insults came from the RL, not prospects. I’m no stranger to rejection. It’s the hallmark of this business. My only grievance is that my position was terminated only AFTER I was placed on disability. A disability I suffered as a consequence of traveling to a mandatory Jones event. No offer of medical leave until I heal, just the pink slip. While I was laid up, my RL did not so much as inquire as to the status of my condition. So allow me to summarize: You work at Jones, you get injured at Jones, you get fired at Jones. At least in this region, under the current broken leadership. The decreased production was a result of the injuries sustained, and they knew that. Beyond my control.



Working weekends is a good thing. I always have. Can be very productive. Good luck closing them.



By the way, Squash, I have just one honest question for you, since you seem like a smart guy: Keynes or Friedman?

Jan 31, 2009 7:06 am

First post, great forum. I can speak to all of those who have left Jones, or been fired. I did my 3 years and left the cult. Left after seeing several planners leave to go to Raymond James (including a regional Leader) and others to a bank to get a salary and free toilet paper. I left after building a 16 million dollar book and moved to a new town. Only mistake we made in the 3 years was the choice of town…we hated where we were living and couldn’t see ourselves living there the rest of our life. Good for business purposes but terrible for lifestyle. 16 million isn’t enough for Indy so working for a CU now in a major city.

  Hold on, here comes the comments. Flunked out of EJ. Put on goals and looking for a salary. (Been looking at this forum for a couple of years now). I won a trip and was doing fine in the EJ system. Made enough money to satisfy all my bills and SAVE with no debt.   At EJ, you're nothing but a dot on a screen being monitored by someone in St.Louis or Toronto. I tell people that and they say "just like Jimmy Pattison". For those of you who don't know, Jimmy Pattison is a Canadian billionaire who owns numerous car dealerships and gained notoritety for firing the salesperson with the lowest sales each month. Yes, I'm Canadian.   As per previous comments, you can hold almost any fund, but that's not helping with the upfront money you need to generate on a monthly basis to maintain your dot. Some firms actually compensate you for bringing assets in kind.   This was a post going in different directions but I'll be back.      
Jan 31, 2009 1:44 pm

I think it is great!  That is so true you have absolutely no value but a dot on a ever increasing line!!! I can also believe that no one ever called to check and see how you are doing after a car accident. My region only cares about a select few.  There are so many that never make it, the seg 4 and 5 are burned out being "pretend" field tranner and memtors.  They bring you into the "culture", then one day you wake up and see there is a life outside of Jones. There are 3 groups who do not make it. One does not do the work, 2 are hired and forgotten even though they have good numbers. The third last wake up and see the fake"culture". I am waking up, and I know things are better outside of the old fashion culture at Jones.  THAT is why there is a  5 year plan, to bring in  NEW FA's. No plan at all the fix their cult..oops I mean culture!! I really feel bad for the mentors and field trainers with this unending line of new fa's. Best of luck to you...with the 5 year plan you will need it! I have a freind who is doing her first legacy....she can't stand having to answer every little question, I told him good luck there are many more coming after that!!!

Jan 31, 2009 2:08 pm

[quote=monopolybet]

I think it is great!  That is so true you have absolutely no value but a dot on a ever increasing line!!! I can also believe that no one ever called to check and see how you are doing after a car accident. My region only cares about a select few.  There are so many that never make it, the seg 4 and 5 are burned out being "pretend" field tranner and memtors.  They bring you into the "culture", then one day you wake up and see there is a life outside of Jones. There are 3 groups who do not make it. One does not do the work, 2 are hired and forgotten even though they have good numbers. The third last wake up and see the fake"culture". I am waking up, and I know things are better outside of the old fashion culture at Jones.  THAT is why there is a  5 year plan, to bring in  NEW FA's. No plan at all the fix their cult..oops I mean culture!! I really feel bad for the mentors and field trainers with this unending line of new fa's. Best of luck to you...with the 5 year plan you will need it! I have a freind who is doing her first legacy....she can't stand having to answer every little question, I told him good luck there are many more coming after that!!!

[/quote]   Cross-dresser or hermaphrodite?
Jan 31, 2009 2:47 pm

sorry, the fa is a female, the Legacy is a young man!! I can say I get way too worked up about the culture I signed up for!! oh well it's early.............have a great day!!

Jan 31, 2009 5:55 pm

It’s interesting how some of the larger brokers almost seem to enjoy watching people wash out. Not all, but some of them seem to have this attitude.



I am on GOALS myself. I had a 250K proposal stall on me last month and I ended up on goals.



I’m past the anger point. Also, I take my share of the blame. I’ve made some mistakes. I haven’t done everything right. I think I mistakenly thought the branch was over the hump last year when the branch was running on all cylinders. Referrals were coming in, business was good, and the job for the first time was actually fun.



I had some burning resentments about the distribution of assets in the region. I’ve even let that go. Ok, so there was an asset lottery and we lost. It happens. It is frustrating to see others relaxed and comfortable when I know they might be enjoying some of the same benefits I have as a “new new”. I don’t believe the asset inheritors are necessarily better brokers. We were running a marathon and they stepped into an air conditioned limousine and got a ride to mile 15. In my region in the class of 2004 all the other rookies got big bites off of an inherited asset burrito. I got the skin flute instead. I could have used a seat at the table.



We can have the standard “didn’t do the work comments”. If I’m slacking like everyone says why am I so exhausted? I think constant worry and fear beat you down after a while. Why is it we worry so much about our clients but we treat ourselves as if we were bullet proof and ready for unlimited risk? I got to be honest, I’m burned out on the risk.



I made my first months hurdle on GOALS but now have a job offer on the table. It’s nothing glamorous but it will pay my bills and give me a fresh start somewhere else. The DILEMMA is a) Do I stay at Jones and risk getting fired if I miss a hurdle or b) Take the bill paying job and get on with my life.



If this were an ordinary environment I would be more inclined to slug my way through GOALS. I’ve overcome challenges in the past. I’ve been here 5 years. This is no ordinary environment. My nearest big city was called the poster child for the foreclosure crisis in the Wall Street Journal.



I’m leaning towards taking the job offer. I think getting terminated if I miss the cut would make it harder for me to find work in the future. It’s a hundred times preferable to make a switch on your own accord rather than be terminated. I think we all know with the current job market risking on unemployment now has a new meaning. Getting fired a couple years ago wasn’t as big of a deal - though it’s never pleasant.



For the self righteous guys, I feel like my own loyalty to the firm has bit my in the rear end. I had solid offers to jump ship from other firms when my numbers were good. And they have been good most of my career. I feel like I should have jumped ship, picked up a few assets, and looked out for number one. Now my loyalty has pushed me into this position where if I miss the cut I face a horrendous job market.



The unemployment road leads to where ? Possible foreclosure? Tapping retirement? Burning though savings? Stress at home with wife and kids?? Fooling around with COBRA to keep medical benefits? Losing things or cutting back an already lean budget?



Why not just take that crappy scenario off the table??



If I had a client and I had a magical investment that could make them a ton of money or possibly go to zero I would probably be hesitant to put many clients in that investment. Right now staying at Jones in this risky environment seems like that risky investment. I could work through GOALs and make a ton of money down the road. OR I could get fired and run a dangerous unemployment scenario.



I admire the guys who have made it. I was darn close. It’s frustrating to get so close and have it go bad. I fully admit my mistakes. I think there is a luck factor as well. This was a bad point in my career to have a replay of 1931. If I had got to Segment 4 or 5 first I would have been more ready for it. I think your book size and the percentage of assets annuitized has a lot to do with your books resiliency during a decline like this.



Good luck to all you guys.

Jan 31, 2009 6:23 pm

I have said this ever since I have been with Jones. STL’s efforts/momentum is messed up. Their focus is bringing in new FA’s. the focus is to back-fill offices. They need to change and start looking at people who have proven they can do this job. To put a plan in place to help them get through to the next level. I too, agree some of the seg4/5 really enjoy seeing another one fail at Jones. In some weird way it makes them feel really good about themselves and what they have done . (They also forget about assests that where handed to them, they where) I wish I really knew where their assests came from.

I have a friend who got a 18M office, then had 12m given to him from an office that closed? go figure.  He is the MAN!!! I took over a small office 4M, I am the 5th broker through the door. I DO NOT CARE WHAT JONES SAYS, IT IS TOUGH TO BE ANOTHER NEW BROKER, IT IS TOUGH ON THE NEW FA. FOR COMPANY WHO SAYS THEY CARE ABOUT THEIR CLIENTS AND BOA'S THE CONSTANT CHANGE OF FA IS HARD BOTH THE BOA AND CLIENTS.   I wish the best to you. I too am torn with the exactly the same decision. Best of luck to you.