BigPayDay Defend Jones Answers Questions

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May 28, 2005 8:12 pm

BigPayDay  Answer these questions about Edward Jones:   Just for you, they are all "YES" or "NO" answers!


1) Did Edward Jones even do anything wrong?


2) Did Doug 3 Mil Hill even do anything wrong?


3) Does the Firm owe their Clients the Truth about their Fines from the SEC (75 Million) or Not?


4)  Does the Firm owe their IR's an explanation of what went wrong in STL, to cause the 75 Million Dollar Fine by the SEC? 


5) Did the SEC Fine Edward Jones without cause?


6) Did the Attorney General of Missouri drop FRAUD charges against Doug Hill Managing General Partner @ Edward Jones, as long as he resigned and personally paid 3 Million in Fines? 


7) JD Power never asked Jones Clients if they were aware of the Fact that Edward Jones was fined by the SEC, and did not disclose this to their clients, either by the Home Office or by your Local Representative, how would you rate them as a Firm you want to do business with?  Would this have affected the rating Edward Jones got ? 


8) How ETHICAL is it for Edward Jones to not DISCLOSE all FEES & CHARGES on an Investment and get caught by the SEC, and still not disclose that our the FEES and CHARGES NOW, Is this ETHICAL BEHAVIOR IN YOUR EYES?  


9) Does EHTICS really matter at Edward Jones anymore?


10) If you answered YES to number 9, then why are you still there, and why haven't you demanded your leaders level with your clients and you? This is one you need to actually answer for all of the readers, your clients, and associates:



When Edward Jones Reps come on here bragging about their "JD Power Awards", and HOW great their FIRM is, and how more "HONEST" and "ETHICAL" Then ask them to answer the above questions: 

May 28, 2005 10:27 pm
Player:

BigPayDay Answer these questions about Edward Jones: Just for you, they are all "YES" or "NO" answers!



1) Did Edward Jones even do anything wrong?



Yes. Jones did not adequately disclose revenue sharing to their clients. They allowed only preferred funds to qualify for the diversification contest for a period of three months. Their bonus system encouraged the sale of prefered funds. This has been corrected. Revenue sharing is still credited to each IR. But it is based on total investments sold not based on what preferred funds are sold.

2) Did Doug 3 Mil Hill even do anything wrong?



Yes, as the CEO of Edward Jones it is Doug's responsibility to make sure there is full disclosure. As stated in #1, Jones disclosure was lacking.

3) Does the Firm owe their Clients the Truth about their Fines from the SEC (75 Million) or Not?.



Yes, and there has been letters sent and very clear information on our public web site. Edward Jones disclosure on revenue sharing is now the most detailed in the industry.

4) Does the Firm owe their IR's an explanation of what went wrong in STL, to cause the 75 Million Dollar Fine by the SEC?



Yes. And there has been tremendous communication via satelite, via meetings and in writen communication.

5) Did the SEC Fine Edward Jones without cause?



No.

6) Did the Attorney General of Missouri drop FRAUD charges against Doug Hill Managing General Partner @ Edward Jones, as long as he resigned and personally paid 3 Million in Fines? ."



I am not familiar enough with this situation to say Yes or No. I believe (I know you don't) Doug has taken a sword for the firm. As he stated "There is no one person greater than the firm."

7) JD Power never asked Jones Clients if they were aware of the Fact that Edward Jones was fined by the SEC, and did not disclose this to their clients, either by the Home Office or by your Local Representative, how would you rate them as a Firm you want to do business with. Would this have affected the rating Edward Jones got ?



Yes, I believe it would have impacted the survey results, but MANY firms on the list have had settlements and it would have effected their ratings as well.

8) How ETHICAL is it for Edward Jones to not DISCLOSE all FEES & CHARGES on an Investment and get caught by the SEC, and still not disclose that our the FEES and CHARGES NOW, Is this ETHICAL BEHAVIOR IN YOUR EYES?



The fees are now being disclosed. Most firms, as was Jones, were counting on the mutual funds perspectus to discuss revenue sharing. Back in 2000 per On Wall Street this is all the SEC said was needed.

9) Does EHTICS really matter at Edward Jones anymore?



Yes.

10) If you answered YES to number 9, then why are you still there, and why haven't you demanded your leaders level with your clients and you? This is one you need to actually answer for all of the readers, your clients, and associates:



Player, I know you think ALL other firms are good and Jones is bad. There are good and bad brokers at all firms, including Jones. Jones historically has had one of the LOWEST arbitration case rates year after year. We tend to recommend a buy and hold long term philosphy which usually means lower costs for the investor. I've been with the firm a long time and have friends at other firms who are happy and doing very well. I have never bad mouthed other firms on this site, just trying to stand up for my firm which I still believe in very much.



When Edward Jones Reps come on here bragging about their "JD Power Awards", and HOW great their FIRM is, and how more "HONEST" and "ETHICAL" Then ask them to answer the above questions:


Well the above questions have been answered. I tried to answer them as honestly as I could. Hope this helps. I know you will say "brainwashed" or "loser" or "the GPs are greedy" or "our diversification trips are like due dilligence trips" and "our technology is terrible" and we "rig" all the surveys. Well I'm sticking around. I'm very happy and know MANY others who are happy and stayng around too.




Player,



Your questions in bold, my answers in regular font.



BPD

May 29, 2005 12:43 pm

I have a question for BigBayDay,


As a licensed individual you would not want to misrepresent yourself to the general public which would also include this online forum.  For clarification, are you a General Partner at Edward Jones?  Have you ever been a General Partner at Edward Jones?  If not a GP, are you now a LP? 


Thanks in advance...

May 30, 2005 10:27 am

6) Did the Attorney General of Missouri drop FRAUD charges against Doug Hill Managing General Partner @ Edward Jones, as long as he resigned and personally paid 3 Million in Fines? ."



Well, the state of Missouri had nothing to do with the revenue sharing agreement - this was between the SEC, NASD, NYSE and the US District Court - not that it makes it any BETTER.   



I believe that if the firm follows the terms of the settlement (pretty much to a 't')the FEDERAL fraud charges will be dropped. However, they have not been taken off the table.



JoeDog

May 30, 2005 11:17 am

BigPayDay


Thanks for some Honesty, however you weaseled on them, so you need to go back and do some homework and read the December 2004 & Jan 2005 "WSJ" ! I assume you do read it, you can contact them and go back and get past articles.   I DID NOT MAKE THIS UP!


The State Attorney General of Missouri was set to Fine  the Firm and charge Doug Hill and several other GP's with FRAUD, This is a FACT stated in the "WSJ" !   Why would Doug Hill resign if he did nothing wrong?   Know one outside of Jones believes that crap about falling on the sword, not even Jones IR's I know buy that.  State Attorney Generals often worth with the Feds, like the SEC, look at the State Attorney General in New York 


BigPayDay,


I have never stated on here that I think all IR's at Edward Jones are BAD, I have stated that the current Leadership have tarnished a once GREAT FIRM, and based on YOUR ANSWERS, you have confirmed that!


I have many friends still at Edward Jones, and there is still NO REQUIREMENT, or anything for the CLIENT to sign and read, that FULLY DISCLOSES revenue sharing?  


Hopefully you do disclose to your clients, and have fully told them about the FINES, because I have never seen anything come out from the Home Office stating anything about it?   I have many clients I have had keep an account at Jones just to see if and when Jones discloses FACTS to clients, they haven't yet, if you know when and how they did that please tell us all ? 



May 30, 2005 11:27 am
joedog:

6) Did the Attorney General of Missouri drop FRAUD charges against Doug Hill Managing General Partner @ Edward Jones, as long as he resigned and personally paid 3 Million in Fines? ."

Well, the state of Missouri had nothing to do with the revenue sharing agreement - this was between the SEC, NASD, NYSE and the US District Court - not that it makes it any BETTER.   

I believe that if the firm follows the terms of the settlement (pretty much to a 't')the FEDERAL fraud charges will be dropped. However, they have not been taken off the table.

JoeDog


Joedog,


Go read the WSJ, very often State Attorney Generals work in conjunction with the SEC, especially with  FRAUD on consumers...NOT FULLY DISCLOSING FACTS. you must be new, so do your own education, go back and read the WSJ, checkout past articles, go back and read the article on RR that stated Jones settled right before Christmas, so the impact on their clients would be reduced because of the holidays...that's real ethical Leadership, or was it smart disclosure? 


You decide............But first get all the FACTS!

May 30, 2005 1:24 pm

The firm management has made some serious errors. The reason Doug resigned effective later this year was because there were some mistakes made on the response to the allegations from the SEC. The regulators frown on companies and or people who do that. Doug was looking at being held personally accountable. How many companies survive when their CEO is indicted?


The truth is that EDJ gets a ton of bad press on these forums. Ironic that when the surveys come out, that both client and IR's feel EDJ in spite of its misgivings, is still at or close to the top in satisfaction. I admit, I was very bitter when it first came out, and I did not like the lack of information we received. But when you realize, for greed or whatever the reason, that the industry has accepted this practice of revenue sharing, EDJ is just one of the gang. It certainly does not make it right...just somewhat understandable.


All you former Jonsers will cry until the end of time about how unfair life was when you were at Jones. I agree.


All you former Jonsers will cry until the end of time about how unfair the firm is with goodknights versus new brokers in new offices. I agree.


All you former Jonsers will cry until the end of time about how unfair the firm is with limited partnership (LP). I agree.


All you former Jonsers will cry until the end of time about how unfair the firm is regarding IR's spending time for the good of the firm fostering the culture of helping others. I agree.


All you former Jonsers will cry until the end of time about how unfair the firm is regarding our LACK of technology. I agree.


In spite of the above, I have chosen to stay. Guest1 are you shocked? Let's just say that for me, since I am not forced to recruit, and am not forced to sell company products, and I can and do choose mutual funds that are not preferred, that I feel better about the climate at Jones. I hope things continue just the way they are.


If disclosure is required so be it. The truth is clients don't read it. We have disclosed until the cows come home since December, and the overwhelming response is "stop the paper flow!". They have heard enough.

May 30, 2005 7:23 pm

[quote=7yrvet, here are your answers

The firm management has made some serious errors. The reason Doug resigned effective later this year was because there were some mistakes made on the response to the allegations from the SEC. The regulators frown on companies and or people who do that. Doug was looking at being held personally accountable. How many companies survive when their CEO is indicted?   What about the Attorney General of Missouri, not to mention the California Attorney General's claims?  Please do not state a Company Line, that no one believes except Kool Aid Drinkers.


The truth is that EDJ gets a ton of bad press on these forums. Ironic that when the surveys come out, that both client and IR's feel EDJ in spite of its misgivings, is still at or close to the top in satisfaction. I admit, I was very bitter when it first came out, and I did not like the lack of information we received. But when you realize, for greed or whatever the reason, that the industry has accepted this practice of revenue sharing, EDJ is just one of the gang. It certainly does not make it right...just somewhat understandable.  The FACT is Edward Jones the FIRM has still not leveled with their beloved clients, what do you think your clients relationship is going to be when they find out you didn't tell them this had happen, loyalty goes away when you deceive people! 


All you former Jonsers will cry until the end of time about how unfair life was when you were at Jones. I agree.  I didn't have a problem with this, except the lack of a Succession Plan!


All you former Jonsers will cry until the end of time about how unfair the firm is with goodknights versus new brokers in new offices. I agree. I didn't have problem with this either, it allowed me to get rid of my bottom 10 to 15% that took up my time!


All you former Jonsers will cry until the end of time about how unfair the firm is with limited partnership (LP). I agree. I never had a problem with this either!


All you former Jonsers will cry until the end of time about how unfair the firm is regarding IR's spending time for the good of the firm fostering the culture of helping others. I agree. I never had a problem with this, in fact since I left I have discovered this concept is just not at Edward Jones!


All you former Jonsers will cry until the end of time about how unfair the firm is regarding our LACK of technology. I agree.I never had a problem with this either!


None of the above did I have problems with, it was the dishonest way the GP's & Managing General Partner's dealt with Wholesalers (Mutual Funds & Annuities) demanding their AGENDA at any cost, and we all know what that cost was, don't we?


I just got fed-up with the arrogance of STL and their lack of communication to the field on the investigation, we had always been told there was no wrong doing, the FIRM is above all that, it just wasn't TRUE, was it? 



In spite of the above, I have chosen to stay. Guest1 are you shocked? Let's just say that for me, since I am not forced to recruit, and am not forced to sell company products, and I can and do choose mutual funds that are not preferred, that I feel better about the climate at Jones. I hope things continue just the way they are. You need to look out for yourself, and do what is best for you and your clients, Jones did not build your business you did! Jones betrayed the TRUST of the Clients, and the IR's, not the other way around 



If disclosure is required so be it. The truth is clients don't read it. We have disclosed until the cows come home since December, and the overwhelming response is "stop the paper flow!". They have heard enough.   Try setting down FACE to FACE, and tell them what happen, how you benefited as a FIRM, as an IR in them buying certain products pushed by the FIRM, not more paper to read, just honest dealing FACE TO FACE, JUST LIKE WHEN YOU OPENED THEIR FIRST ACCOUNT WITH YOU....the TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE.....


When you state you (tHE firm) are sending them more paper to read it sounds like the Firm is overloading them with articles, and not just coming out with the TRUTh...COULD THAT BE THE plan?


[/quote]

May 30, 2005 8:53 pm

Player-


I kept all but one of my clients. Yes it hurt to defend the company brass. But you have once again proved my point. Your goal is to make EDJ look bad because YOU feel that they have not been forthright and mistreated you.


What more do you want. I am telling you I did not benefit directly with revenue sharing. I have been on due diligence trips and diversification trips and the grip you feel the GP's have on us just isn't there. Myabe the new IR's but after awhile we get what's going on.


Tell me where its better? The wirehouses? Indy? I have checked them out and it seems that nothing is substantially better, different, but not better, at least for me.


I used to be very interested in these forums, but I have hit the point where I can guess fairly well where the agendas are, and I think its time to set some of the record straight. Jones ain't perfect. This industry isn't either.

May 31, 2005 6:25 am
BlahBlahBlah:

I have a question for BigBayDay,


As a licensed individual you would not want to misrepresent yourself to the general public which would also include this online forum.  For clarification, are you a General Partner at Edward Jones?  Have you ever been a General Partner at Edward Jones?  If not a GP, are you now a LP? 


Thanks in advance...



I'm sorry BigPayDay, I saw you were on since I last posted this question and you must have missed it.  Would you mind answering it now?  Thanks in advance...

May 31, 2005 2:29 pm

Hey player-


Get on your soapbox with SSB agreeing to a 208M settlement for NOT disclosing that their transfer agent for their proprietary funds was a subsidiary of Citigroup. OOPS.


3 times the settlement of EDJ. It's the industry. I keep trying to tell you......

May 31, 2005 3:03 pm

3 times the settlement, but how big was it in proportion to EDJ's settlement.  Not trying to be a jacka$$ by asking, but just curious.


2004 total assets:  EDJ $3.833 B, Smith Barney (Citi) $278.589 B.  This would break down to .2% of EDJ's net assets, Smith Barney (.0007%) if my math is correct. 


Again, not trying to one-up, but it seems as though the $208M is a hell of a lot more, it is less proportionally on the bottom line than EDJ's $75M.

May 31, 2005 8:02 pm

Brokerrecruit-


You are either ethical or you are not. Splitting hairs as to which percentage is better is clearly the response many Jones detractors cling to. You folks need to understand. Jones was wrong. The GP's were wrong. Period. End of story.


My point is that Morgan had their recent struggles (Mr. Purcell is another issue), now SSB/Citigroup. Wait to the insurance industry comes under scrutiny. Other firms are paying settlements and continuing to do biz the same way. I have said it before....Jones is just one of the gang. It is the industry. It's business everywhere. Revenues are shared frequently, in different ways in most industries.


We as brokers make more out of it than our clients. I know player will find it hard to believe, but when I sit down with clients WE TALK ABOUT REVENUE SHARING. WE TALK ABOUT THE SETTLEMENT. We talk about the California AG.


Clients still have goals and dreams that we have to help them fulfill. Their objectives don't change because of the news. Sure business is more regulated than ever, but probably deserved. The strong will survive, and I believe EDJ will take the necessary steps to stay a viable entity in the marketplace.

Jun 1, 2005 11:59 am

i don't think it is the same looking at all citis revenue? what is the pure revenue of ssb?

Jun 2, 2005 2:21 am
7yrvet:

Brokerrecruit-


You are either ethical or you are not. Splitting hairs as to which percentage is better is clearly the response many Jones detractors cling to. You folks need to understand. Jones was wrong. The GP's were wrong. Period. End of story.  yes, right on............THIS SHOULD OF BEEN THE END, BUT IT WASN'T !


My point is that Morgan had their recent struggles (Mr. Purcell is another issue), now SSB/Citigroup. Wait to the insurance industry comes under scrutiny. Other firms are paying settlements and continuing to do biz the same way. I have said it before....Jones is just one of the gang. It is the industry. It's business everywhere. Revenues are shared frequently, in different ways in most industries.


We as brokers make more out of it than our clients. I know player will find it hard to believe, but when I sit down with clients WE TALK ABOUT REVENUE SHARING. WE TALK ABOUT THE SETTLEMENT. We talk about the California AG.  If, your clients have no problem with the Truth, wha hasn't the Firm (Edward Jones) sent them all a letter telling of the Firms wrong doing.....several other major Brokerage Firms have stepped-up to the plate and when fined by the SEC, IMMEDIATELY sent out letters to their Clients telling them about the wrong doing, WHY HASN'T EDWARD JONES DONE THIS?


 THEY JUST CAN'T ADMIT THEY SCREWED-UP!


Clients still have goals and dreams that we have to help them fulfill. Their objectives don't change because of the news. Sure business is more regulated than ever, but probably deserved. The strong will survive, and I believe EDJ will take the necessary steps to stay a viable entity in the marketplace.  Until they change the corrupt General Partnership system, of over paid STL Home Office Personnel, no accountability to the Field.....it has to change.



7YrVet,


Try answering these questions to your statements, your First Paragraph was right on, then you tried to justify what Jones did, it just doesn't wash, when you present yourself as perfect.

Jun 2, 2005 7:34 am

I'm sorry BigPayDay, I saw you were on since I last posted this question and you must have missed it.  Would you mind answering it now?  Thanks in advance...

Jun 2, 2005 1:31 pm
BlahBlahBlah:

I'm sorry BigPayDay, I saw you were on since I last posted this question and you must have missed it.  Would you mind answering it now?  Thanks in advance...



BigPayDay,


Very good Questions?


What is the answers?

Jun 3, 2005 10:25 am

Player, what is it with you and the large type?



Player:
7yrvet:

Brokerrecruit-


You are either ethical or you are not. Splitting hairs as to which percentage is better is clearly the response many Jones detractors cling to. You folks need to understand. Jones was wrong. The GP's were wrong. Period. End of story.  yes, right on............THIS SHOULD OF BEEN THE END, BUT IT WASN'T !


My point is that Morgan had their recent struggles (Mr. Purcell is another issue), now SSB/Citigroup. Wait to the insurance industry comes under scrutiny. Other firms are paying settlements and continuing to do biz the same way. I have said it before....Jones is just one of the gang. It is the industry. It's business everywhere. Revenues are shared frequently, in different ways in most industries.


We as brokers make more out of it than our clients. I know player will find it hard to believe, but when I sit down with clients WE TALK ABOUT REVENUE SHARING. WE TALK ABOUT THE SETTLEMENT. We talk about the California AG.  If, your clients have no problem with the Truth, wha hasn't the Firm (Edward Jones) sent them all a letter telling of the Firms wrong doing.....several other major Brokerage Firms have stepped-up to the plate and when fined by the SEC, IMMEDIATELY sent out letters to their Clients telling them about the wrong doing, WHY HASN'T EDWARD JONES DONE THIS?


 THEY JUST CAN'T ADMIT THEY SCREWED-UP!


Clients still have goals and dreams that we have to help them fulfill. Their objectives don't change because of the news. Sure business is more regulated than ever, but probably deserved. The strong will survive, and I believe EDJ will take the necessary steps to stay a viable entity in the marketplace.  Until they change the corrupt General Partnership system, of over paid STL Home Office Personnel, no accountability to the Field.....it has to change.



7YrVet,


Try answering these questions to your statements, your First Paragraph was right on, then you tried to justify what Jones did, it just doesn't wash, when you present yourself as perfect.

Jun 3, 2005 11:23 am

he's hard of hearing so he has to write LOUD


Just like candybar doesn't comprehend.     

Jun 4, 2005 1:04 am

Ex Jones 1984,



Player is very, very sick. We need to get him some help.



If I were you I would not try and ride his coat tails. Could be dangerous.



BPD