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May 30, 2005 7:06 am

Need some clarification: Do I have to be registered in each state where my clients reside? If so, what exams must I take in addition to the Series 7? Is there a minimum number that triggers the registration requirement?


My role will be "money manager", advising clients and buying/selling investment products (including securities, mutual funds, maybe VAs, etc) on their behalf.


I'm just embarking on this career but have family/close friends in several states, all of whom want me to manage their $$ if I do decide to pursue this.


If it helps, states initially on my list would be MA, NH, ME, FL, possibly NY.


Thanks for the help and advice.

May 30, 2005 9:18 am

Hi Mooline!


Yes, I think you do need some clarification.


Please understand that I wish you the best, but I strongly doubt that any wirehouse is going to spend the money on training, then step back and let a self proclaimed money manager do whatever he or she chooses.  Make no mistake...this is a sales job.  Firms are top heavy with "money managers" with advanced degrees.  They're looking for a rare animal known as a successful salesperson.  If you get your series 7 and 63 through them, they're going to expect you to produce.  The top Indy firms won't associate with someone without a track record.


As to family and friends, I think I can safely say that most if not all of us have had scores of folks who couldn't wait until we got into the business and start helping them.  Things change somewhat when the time comes to sign that ACAT form.


As I said earlier I wish you the best, but I feel you should re-examine your expectations. 


May 30, 2005 10:23 am

I would also caution depending on family and friends to build your business.  It is far better in my view to have clients become friends rather than vice versa.  Also, I have a personal policy of managing no more than 2/3 of any immediate family member's money.  This includeds my parents and my siblings.  I always prefer that they have an alternate experience by which to judge the performance of the accounts that I am responsible for.  I took this piece of advice from a veteran of more than 25 years when I started in the business.  He was anything other than the typical broker of this length of service--you know, the one who believes that he created the largest bull market in the history of the world largely by himself.  This was a man of humility, common sense, and wisdom.  I very much took his suggestion to heart.  Good luck to you!

May 30, 2005 11:41 am

Starka and Soothsayer, thanks for the replies. I do greatly value your insight and advice.


I was not complete in my positing. I'm not looking for a long term full time career - I'm "mature" (nice way of saying not a kid), built a business, made a good sum, am comfortable and did (still do)extremely well with my own investments. Since I no longer run my business day to day, what I seek now is a way to enjoy life, keep active and always learning. The level of income that my "work" generates is a non-issue. (I can live very nicely off the income of my own portfolio.) Probably those in the early to mid stage of their careers would consider my situation to be something akin to semi-retirement or a second career (in my case it's actually a third)


Likewise, I'm not looking for someone to "spend money training" me. I am fully prepared to learn on my own (I'm a very disciplined and focused person, have a lot of education under my belt and have passed many complex, challenging licensure and certification exams in my life - yes, even recently). I know, however, that I do need a Series 7 sponsor. Of course, I expect to pay my own exam and licensure fees.


Your points about family and friends are well taken and something I'm carefully analyzing. My hope would be to build a small book of business, with very selected family and friends to be my starting point - from there, a few referrals.


Again, advice regarding specific state requirements - or direction to a source for that information - is appreciated. Thanks again for your help.

May 30, 2005 12:06 pm

Mooline--


You are in a very enviable spot and position in life.  I hop to join you in the next 10-15 years. 

May 30, 2005 12:20 pm

Thanks, Sooth...


I reread my first posting and understand why a few of you may have thought I was a starry eyed kid with no real world experience.  Sorry for that...though I'm flattered to think I came across as a youngster!


I suspect you're putting in the 80 hour + workweeks now, just as I did for many, many years while building my business, going to grad school & raising a family. It pays off - although the trade offs are hard at the time.


Problem is, when you get "here", if you're the kind of person I supect you are, you find you still can't sit still - so you have to find some way to keep busy, active & learning. Traditional "work", even if only part time, means too much rigidity and no time for the toys. All play gets old (honest!) after a while.


So, I figure, if I thoroughly enjoy money management, have been very successful at it on my own, have a small group of people who want to trust me to do right by them (and "right" differs greatly by individual)...why not pursue it in a fashion that fits my life at this point?


Looks like you guys and gals are bright and experienced at this - so if I'm way off base - tell me. I'm old enough to take it - hardnened by several trips around the block of the business world!


Thanks again...

May 30, 2005 12:31 pm

Now comes Put Trader, age 60 and Senior Vice President of
Administration with a premier wirehouse.  I am unpopular on this
forum because I do NOT believe that anybody, male or female, belongs in
this business until they are at least age thirty and even then I think
they have close to zero credibility before age forty.



I am of the opinion that this woman is EXACTLY what a manager at Merrill would be looking for IF she was already registered.



The problem she will face will only surface IF she runs her mouth and
tells the hiring manager that she does not intend to work hard, nor
does she intend to prospect.



Even so, as I read that I was thinking, "sh*t she could still bring in
enough business to justify what it will cost me to have her around."



What the children who drop their brain farts the most do not understand
is found in reading carefully.  "Started a business," "Sold it,"
"Comfortable," "Traded my own account," "just want to keep myself
active" and so forth reveal a lot to a fellow adult that the children
don't get.



HOWEVER, she is dealing with the fact that places like Merrill are
going to want her to go through training, to go to Princeton, and so
forth.  Plus she should want to--there is no firm on earth that is
better at turning out professioals than "Mother Merrill."



My advice is this.  Approach the wirehouses.  Do NOT reveal
your hand, instead you're a successful entrepreneurial type looking for
opportunity to build a second business.



You undestand that the "new" world is little more than a focus on
gathering assets under managment, and you certainly understand that
that is how you will be judged.



I could go on for pages, let's say what you should do is "fool" the
manager--let him or her think you're going to behave as if you were
half your age, with no assets yourself and virtually no network. 
You're driven by ambition.



Do NOT talk about a desire to run your own money--most managers
actually worry that you'll spend most of your time looking over your
own shoulder.  Do NOT talk about a network of family and
friends--you can be hired for other reasons.  Play the woman card,
play the entrepreneurial card, play the enough money to care for
yourself while you build the practice card, play being the very
attractive age of 50 when women finally become interesting, play the
ability to move in the circles of those who have investable assets,
play the reality that at the retail level it's widows who have the bulk
of the money and that women of a certain age tend to trust other women
of a similar age (especially if they're known successes already).



Let the almost instantaneous opening of accounts with your network be a
surprise for the manager--it will show that you're a fast starter
instead of simply calling in the chits.  It can buy you as much as
a year (or more) of "Wow factor."



What you'll find is you fall in love with it--or hate it.  If you
fall in love with it there is no reason why you should not be doing the
same thing for casual acquaintences and complete strangers.



++++




The advice of the danger of doing business with family and friends is well taken.



Be VERY careful with their money UNLESS it is being given to you as
"mad money."  You'll know the people, but even then you may not
realize how attached to those particular dollars they are.



Additionally, from the way you're talking it sounds like you envision
yourself as a transaction oriented broker--something that is as much in
favor these days as double-knits and smoking.



I think you have to go out of your way to NOT suggest that what you
envision doing is "trading" for anybody, much less family and friends.



Again, once you've been given the job you will have a lot more freedom
to do it however you want--within the rules of your firm and office
manager's point of view.



Suppose you fooled me.  I hired you because I saw you as a
networker among the entrepenurial types and damn if you didn't turn out
to be a broker who was day trading friends and family.  Would I
fire you?



Probably not if you were generating numbers--it's a numbers game more than anything.



I'd probably want to get powers of attorney from each of your clients,
and I'd probably write letters to them every quarter saying, "We sure
love you as a client.  I am writing to thank you for paying an
extraordinary sum in commissions as a result of your activity with
Mooline.  Please let me know if you have any concerns."



What the Assets Under Management zealots don't get is that there are
people who like to trade the market.   Managers know that and
if a person who is smart enough to do something other than explain
mutual funds to the 401(k) rollover market appears they can be a
roaring success--but they have to come into the firm as a Trojan Horse.
May 30, 2005 12:49 pm

Need some clarification: Do I have to be registered in each state where my clients reside? If so, what exams must I take in addition to the Series 7? Is there a minimum number that triggers the registration requirement?


My role will be "money manager", advising clients and buying/selling investment products (including securities, mutual funds, maybe VAs, etc) on their behalf.


You will need to be security licensed in each state your clients reside in.  This is not difficult. Once you have your Series 7 (and you will need the Series 63) you just pay an annual fee that each State sets. Some are more expensive than others so you may want to decide how much business you will be doing for those clients.  To offer VAs you also need to have an insurance license and be insurance licensed in each state.


It sounds like you plan to do managed money and possibly discretionary trading?  In that case you may need to have an RIA designation which will require more licensing. Either a Series 65 or 66.


While it may be nice to "start" at a wire house like ML you also may want to look at the independent channels.  Some of them do not require the large amount of grosses that the wires do.  Since you have been in business for yourself before being an independent may be more your cup of tea and allow you to build your book of business at your own pace.


Good luck.

May 30, 2005 1:25 pm

Regarding licenses.



People who do not have a 63 may take a 66 that qualifies as both the 63 and 65.



Series 65 is taken by those who already have a 63.



Another comment about state fees.  Be sure you know when that
state renews licenses--some are one year from whenever you pay the fee
others are at the end of the year.  If you're not going to do
business in a state until sometime next year there is no reason to get
licensed this year.



Additionally, while the normal requirement is Series 63 or 66 there are
states that require odd ball things like letters of recommendation from
three people.  For years you had to apply IN PERSON in Utah--I
don't think that's the case any longer but it may be.



You should ask to have your state registration fees paid for by your
branch manager.  If that is objected to offer a challenge, "Will
you reimburse me if I do (say) at least $1,000 in gross in the state?"



Most managers like the attitude and will accept the challenge. 
Remember Lou Grant telling Mary Richards, "You've got
spunk..............I hate spunk."

May 30, 2005 6:13 pm

Put,


Good advice. Welcome to the board.

May 30, 2005 7:26 pm

yes Put, nice post

May 30, 2005 10:11 pm
Put Trader:

Now comes Put Trader, age 60 and Senior Vice President of
Administration with a premier wirehouse.  I am unpopular on this
forum because I do NOT believe that anybody, male or female, belongs in
this business until they are at least age thirty and even then I think
they have close to zero credibility before age forty........






No
Put, you are UNPOPULAR on this forum because you are an arrogant 60
year old Senior Vice President of Useless
Overhead(er....Administration) with a premeir bureaucracy(er wirehouse)
who thinks he knows what it takes to be a successful modern-era
financial advisor, and you feel compelled to share that, along with
your bigoted, sexist views on a frequent basis.  That, sir, is why
you are unpopular.



Every now and then you stumble across a pearl of wisdom you share with
us, such as above, and then it's back to the normal routine for you.

May 30, 2005 10:35 pm
joedabrkr:
Put Trader:

Now comes Put Trader, age 60 and Senior Vice President of
Administration with a premier wirehouse.  I am unpopular on this
forum because I do NOT believe that anybody, male or female, belongs in
this business until they are at least age thirty and even then I think
they have close to zero credibility before age forty........






No
Put, you are UNPOPULAR on this forum because you are an arrogant 60
year old Senior Vice President of Useless
Overhead(er....Administration) with a premeir bureaucracy(er wirehouse)
who thinks he knows what it takes to be a successful modern-era
financial advisor, and you feel compelled to share that, along with
your bigoted, sexist views on a frequent basis.  That, sir, is why
you are unpopular.



Every now and then you stumble across a pearl of wisdom you share with
us, such as above, and then it's back to the normal routine for you.





Poor Joe, such a loser that he has to sneer at anybody who
acccomplished more than him--which is about 99.9% of Americans and
something like 88.4% of the world's population.



I have an idea Joe, why not skip what I write to keep your eyes from turning green so often?

May 30, 2005 10:40 pm
Put Trader:

Now comes Put Trader, age 60 and Senior Vice President of Administration with a premier wirehouse.  I am unpopular on this forum because I do NOT believe that anybody, male or female, belongs in this business until they are at least age thirty and even then I think they have close to zero credibility before age forty.


Now comes Starka, another oldster, who happens to be a ToroFecundian....I can sense your bullsh*t from a great distance.


Remember Oh Great and Silly One, those who can, do.  Those who can't do, well, do whatever it is that you do.

May 30, 2005 10:42 pm
Put Trader:
joedabrkr:
Put Trader:

Now comes Put Trader, age 60 and Senior Vice President of
Administration with a premier wirehouse.  I am unpopular on this
forum because I do NOT believe that anybody, male or female, belongs in
this business until they are at least age thirty and even then I think
they have close to zero credibility before age forty........






No
Put, you are UNPOPULAR on this forum because you are an arrogant 60
year old Senior Vice President of Useless
Overhead(er....Administration) with a premeir bureaucracy(er wirehouse)
who thinks he knows what it takes to be a successful modern-era
financial advisor, and you feel compelled to share that, along with
your bigoted, sexist views on a frequent basis.  That, sir, is why
you are unpopular.



Every now and then you stumble across a pearl of wisdom you share with
us, such as above, and then it's back to the normal routine for you.





Poor Joe, such a loser that he has to sneer at anybody who
acccomplished more than him--which is about 99.9% of Americans and
something like 88.4% of the world's population.



I have an idea Joe, why not skip what I write to keep your eyes from turning green so often?





Oh Put.......rolls eyes.  I don't know whether to be amused by
you or feel sorry for you....or both.  I'm a pathetic loser? 
You're the one replying to my post about you within minutes after I hit
the 'send' button.  What....nothing better to do than lurk around
the board and see what we say about you next?



No buddy....I'm not envious of you at all.  I'm happy for you that
you've acheived material success.  I'm somewhat tired of your
bigoted drivel and bureaucratic orthodoxy.  Not envious
really.  I own my own business now and am happily free of your
kind.  Life is good for me!

May 30, 2005 10:51 pm
joedabrkr:
Put Trader:
joedabrkr:
Put Trader:

Now comes Put Trader, age 60 and Senior Vice President of
Administration with a premier wirehouse.  I am unpopular on this
forum because I do NOT believe that anybody, male or female, belongs in
this business until they are at least age thirty and even then I think
they have close to zero credibility before age forty........






No
Put, you are UNPOPULAR on this forum because you are an arrogant 60
year old Senior Vice President of Useless
Overhead(er....Administration) with a premeir bureaucracy(er wirehouse)
who thinks he knows what it takes to be a successful modern-era
financial advisor, and you feel compelled to share that, along with
your bigoted, sexist views on a frequent basis.  That, sir, is why
you are unpopular.



Every now and then you stumble across a pearl of wisdom you share with
us, such as above, and then it's back to the normal routine for you.





Poor Joe, such a loser that he has to sneer at anybody who
acccomplished more than him--which is about 99.9% of Americans and
something like 88.4% of the world's population.



I have an idea Joe, why not skip what I write to keep your eyes from turning green so often?





Oh Put.......rolls eyes.  I don't know whether to be amused by
you or feel sorry for you....or both.  I'm a pathetic loser? 
You're the one replying to my post about you within minutes after I hit
the 'send' button.  What....nothing better to do than lurk around
the board and see what we say about you next?



No buddy....I'm not envious of you at all.  I'm happy for you that
you've acheived material success.  I'm somewhat tired of your
bigoted drivel and bureaucratic orthodoxy.  Not envious
really.  I own my own business now and am happily free of your
kind.  Life is good for me!





Nah, I've got my laptop in the living room while Putette is playing videos of Bermuda.



I've got emails to respond to, bills to pay and, yes, I have clicked on this website a couple of times.



Do you grasp the ridiculousness of sneering that I responded to a post
of yours within minutes after you left it, in a post that you left
moments after mine?



Is it possible--JUST POSSIBLE--that somebody else might be reading this
at the same time.  Hell, it's close to 11 PM on a "school night"
what are you doing awake anyway?

May 30, 2005 11:43 pm
Put Trader:
joedabrkr:
Put Trader:
joedabrkr:
Put Trader:

Now comes Put Trader, age 60 and Senior Vice President of
Administration with a premier wirehouse.  I am unpopular on this
forum because I do NOT believe that anybody, male or female, belongs in
this business until they are at least age thirty and even then I think
they have close to zero credibility before age forty........






No
Put, you are UNPOPULAR on this forum because you are an arrogant 60
year old Senior Vice President of Useless
Overhead(er....Administration) with a premeir bureaucracy(er wirehouse)
who thinks he knows what it takes to be a successful modern-era
financial advisor, and you feel compelled to share that, along with
your bigoted, sexist views on a frequent basis.  That, sir, is why
you are unpopular.



Every now and then you stumble across a pearl of wisdom you share with
us, such as above, and then it's back to the normal routine for you.





Poor Joe, such a loser that he has to sneer at anybody who
acccomplished more than him--which is about 99.9% of Americans and
something like 88.4% of the world's population.



I have an idea Joe, why not skip what I write to keep your eyes from turning green so often?





Oh Put.......rolls eyes.  I don't know whether to be amused by
you or feel sorry for you....or both.  I'm a pathetic loser? 
You're the one replying to my post about you within minutes after I hit
the 'send' button.  What....nothing better to do than lurk around
the board and see what we say about you next?



No buddy....I'm not envious of you at all.  I'm happy for you that
you've acheived material success.  I'm somewhat tired of your
bigoted drivel and bureaucratic orthodoxy.  Not envious
really.  I own my own business now and am happily free of your
kind.  Life is good for me!





Nah, I've got my laptop in the living room while Putette is playing videos of Bermuda.



I've got emails to respond to, bills to pay and, yes, I have clicked on this website a couple of times.



Do you grasp the ridiculousness of sneering that I responded to a post
of yours within minutes after you left it, in a post that you left
moments after mine?



Is it possible--JUST POSSIBLE--that somebody else might be reading this
at the same time.  Hell, it's close to 11 PM on a "school night"
what are you doing awake anyway?





Yes I suppose it is a little ridiculuous, I'll concede that.



What am I doing?  Filling out transfer paperwork!

May 31, 2005 4:43 am

OK, back to the original question from the original thread author:


Based on what I have read, I question if an alternative strategy (one I considered previously) might be appropriate: I have looked into BU's Online CFP program and planned to take that after becoming licensed. However, I wonder if I might not be better off to get the CFP completed first then attack the license courses - or would it not make a difference? The advantage of obtaining licensure first is the ability to generate some revenue from my educational investment, but as I've said before, the income is not an important factor.


I believe it will take me about 6 months of full time study to complete all of these programs. Reasonable guesstimate for a disciplined "good student"?


Thoughts?

Jun 1, 2005 8:14 pm

Anyone haver a thought or opinion on the BU Online CFP program?


C'mon...I can't believe that no one in this bunch as an opinion!


Thanks

Jun 1, 2005 8:48 pm
Mooline:

Anyone haver a thought or opinion on the BU Online CFP program?


C'mon...I can't believe that no one in this bunch as an opinion!


Thanks





It will be a good program, but the larger question for you is why
bother.  The other day you were going to run money for some family
and friends, who presumably will let you do it if you have a CFP or not.



Getting it for eduational reasons is most admirable but the unvarnished
reality is that most of the people who get it get it because it is
expected of them by their cients.  It opens doors, but it seems as
if all the doors you want opened are already opened.