Suck ass training programs

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Jul 6, 2005 10:15 pm

This message is to tell all you young up and comers to quit worrying
about "who has the best training program" because all of them are a
joke.  Imagine signing something that says you will owe them
$40,000 for training costs if you leave, when your training consists of
"here go read some stuff we posted online kid."  Yeah, I bet it
costs 40 grand per person to post some content online!!  What a
ripoff!!



The truth is they toss you through the system as fast as possible
before you're really even ready to have a fair shot.  You could
read about personal finance for 60 hours a week for 5 years and still
not know everything.  Yet I am thrusted through their training
program in 15-20 weeks and over half of that time I am working as a
f*cking receptionist.  Yes, working the switchboard of a major
wirehouse during the time I'm supposed to be studying.  "Study in
between calls" is what they tell me.  The phone rings on average 4
times per minute!  Good luck!!  They dont even hire a
permenant receptionist...they rotate two trainees!  What a joke!




Jul 6, 2005 11:21 pm

I would be the first to agree that most of the major wirehouse training programs are still based on 1990s models.  You know, back in the day of 19% compounded annual returns.  Just slam 'em into something and move on to the next one.  Every firm is trying to grow, but the number of registered representative has dropped every year since 2000 industry wide.  Attrition rates are eye-popping and sobering.  New brokers are not going to be successful targeting millionaires.  That being said, it can be done.  I started from zero, and I'm still standing.  Stop feeling sorry for yourself.  Do not accept failure as an option, and move on to a better working environment.

Jul 7, 2005 12:44 am

There is a shortage of high impact sales training. The American College has incorporated the LUTC program into their curriculum, and I'm moderating courses. Compared to what I went through, LUTC is probably the best for a new grunt.


Of course, there's always my favorite site. There's a ton of great sales ideas over there. 

Jul 7, 2005 5:37 pm

To the original poster:



I'm glad you mentioned that.  Most "training programs" are
unremarkable, to say the least.  They're laughable,
actually.  It's absurd for most people to be concerned about "the
best" training program, because your success is mostly up to you.



Too bad you didn't tell us what company you work for.



A training program isn't going to make a success out of someone
destined to fail, nor make a failure out of someone destined to succeed.



That's goes for the company you work for, too.  While I will agree
that a well-known name, a strong brand, can help you out while you are
beginning, it isn't going to make much difference in terms of your
overall success over time.



Even small regionals have $3 and $4 million producers.



Even Merrill Lynch's training program produces washouts.




Jul 7, 2005 5:45 pm

"...your success is mostly up to you...."


inq- that post is right on the money...

Jul 7, 2005 8:46 pm

I started in a bank, and I was told to read series 7 material in week
1, take a week long review class in week 2, then take the 7 on that
Saturday...which my group did.  10 out of 13 passed.  We
showed up on Monday to work on teh 63 and go out and meet our branch
employees.  Then a week or so later we passed our 63 and began
taking referrals and selling immediately. 



We learned the business with other peoples hard earned money, and that was just plain wrong. 



Plugging through a training program, despite how independent,  and
self directed it may be, is better than the above.  If you cannot
get through a training program, you will not make in the business.






Jul 8, 2005 3:32 am

Home offices can't train sales people. That's a field management job.


The dime-a-dozen MBA types that have never sold anything tried to redesign the field management positions during the 1980s and into the 1990s. Dilbert is real, and they cloned his arse. Home offices are infected with Dilberts like FPi is infected with failed planners.


The result:  All but non-existent field management, and what's left is rarely worth a damn.


Without those who know how to do the job, who can teach others how to do the job, the newbys fail as fast as flies find failed planner dung (isn't failed planner dung an oxy moron?)


But, there is hope! The American College is the ONLY source of higher education for financial services professionals that incorporates high impact sales training, through the revamped LUTC program.

Jul 8, 2005 7:04 am
rightway:

I started in a bank, and I was told to read series 7 material in week
1, take a week long review class in week 2, then take the 7 on that
Saturday...which my group did.  10 out of 13 passed.





Let's see if that makes sense.  Nah, it doesn't.



First, even a bank would not suggest that somebody sit for Series 7 with only two weeks preparation.



The book takes more than a week to read--they're about 1,000 pages of
boring, but highly confusing, material.  In order to finish the
book in a week you'd have to alllow no more than three hours to
options, two hours to municipal bonds and so forth.  It's amazing
that so many of you choose to lie about how much you prepared in a
forum filled with people who have also prepared--and in front of me, a
guy who has spent most of my career involved in the nebulous world of
branch administration which includes hiring, firing, training and test
preparation.



Not all testing centers are open on Saturday, and Saturday appointments
are high desireable.  There are two things about that part of
Righway's lie that caught my seasoned eye.  First is the FACT that
it is damn near impossible to get Saturday appointments with only two
week's notice--second is the FACT that except for two centers in
Manhattan it is my understanding that the testing centers are not large
enough to accomodate more than six Series 7 candidates per day. 
They need their terminals for other exams, not only NASD exams
either.  You might be sitting next to somebody taking a test to
become a pilot on a river barge or some other exotic thing.




rightway:



We
showed up on Monday to work on teh 63 and go out and meet our branch
employees.  Then a week or so later we passed our 63 and began
taking referrals and selling immediately. 



We learned the business with other peoples hard earned money, and that was just plain wrong. 



Plugging through a training program, despite how independent,  and
self directed it may be, is better than the above.  If you cannot
get through a training program, you will not make in the business.






Rightway is not a fan of banks.  It would figure that he would lie
about anything about them---including what exams he took, how long they
allowed him to prepare, and everything else.



Virtually every bank in the country has it's NEW HIRES take Series 6/63
because that is all that is required to sell their product mix.



I am no fan of the idea of bank advisors.  I've been on committees
where bank types are explaining that they recruit tellers and Assistant
Assistant Vice President platform people to the bank's investment
efforts and then go on to explain that they find that those (primarily)
women find passing Series 6 to be exceptionally challenging and that
the few times they tried Series 7 classes they would get pass/fail
ratios in the 20% area.



To handle the Series 7 business--about 90% of it is liquidating assets
to be reinvested in the mutual funds and annuities being flogged by the
women out there in the branches--there is a call center not unlike at
e*Trade.



Mrs. Jones, the investment advisor for four branches, spends one day a
week in each of her branches and returns to each branch every fourth
Friday for some pre-arranged "event" where she can hold a seminar or
meet and greet "party" with a select group of branch customers.



For years banks worried that investment efforts were prostelizing their
CD business--bankers like the money to stay in CDs because it can be
lent to other customers.  What is put into mutual funds and
annuities is "gone" from the bank and cannot be used to fund consumer
loans.



After much study it was determined that if presented right a bank based
B/D can actually attract money out of traditional places such as
Merrill--that there was an occasioal client who would liquidate their
CD in order to settle a mutual fund purchase, but that they were
unusual rather than the rule.



Anyway, back to the call center.  Banks do have the ability to
handle a client's debt and equity positions--it's mostly liquidating,
although they will also buy.  A huge portion of what they do is
done with market orders and the souls who answer the phone are (very
often) not the "image" that the bank is trying to put forward in the
branches--meaning fat and ugly smart-people who were capable of passing
Series 7 while the folks out pressing the flesh found that it took them
two or three times to pass the Series 6, but at least they're not fat
and ugly.


Jul 8, 2005 7:09 am

Roger, what's the deal with LUTC?  Is it geared specifically towards the insurance industry, or is it a general sales training course?

Jul 8, 2005 8:25 am
Starka:

Roger, what's the deal with LUTC?  Is it geared
specifically towards the insurance industry, or is it a general sales
training course?





Why Starka, I thought a guy like you would know something as basic as the "Life Underwriters Training Council."



It's something that is a big deal in the insurance industry.  It
is our experience that people who get the LUTC designations--there is
more than one--have been through some extensive training in both
product knowledge and selling techniques.



LUTC has become a division of The American College and has also gotten
itself tied in with a relatively new organization called
NAIFA--National Association of Financial and Insurance Advisors.



Anyway, LUTC offers a designation called "Life Underwriters Training
Council Fellow" which is--to a degree--as impressive in the insurance
industry as the CFP is in the securities industry. Which explains why
The American College was willing to acquire the right to grant the
designation.



We get reports that joining your local NAIFA chapter might be a decent
idea.  Apparently they are mostly life and A&H insurance
types, but they can be a source of referals because most insurance
types avoid what they see to be the hassles of having to understand
investing in addition to their bread and butter.

Jul 8, 2005 9:43 am

"Why Starka, I thought a guy like you would know something as basic as the "Life Underwriters Training Council.""


                                      -----Put Trader


*******************************************************


As I am so far superior to you in virtually every respect, I guess it would surprise you that I didn't know that.  However, I never let my ego get in the way when I want to know something.


Jul 8, 2005 10:08 am
Starka:

As I am so far superior to you in virtually every
respect, I guess it would surprise you that I didn't know that. 
However, I never let my ego get in the way when I want to know
something.





It would be fun to hear a single standard of measurement in which you
think you excel.  From where I sit you're dumb as a rock and as
angry as a mad dog.



What is particularly a shame is that you found it necessary to ask about something involved in the business you are engaged in.

Jul 8, 2005 10:10 am

As I am not God, there are things "about the business that I'm engaged in" that I'm not aware of.


Humility, Put.  You should try it.  After all, you have so much to be humble about.

Jul 8, 2005 10:50 am
Starka:

As I am not God, there are things "about the business that I'm engaged in" that I'm not aware of.


Humility, Put.  You should try it.  After all, you have so much to be humble about.





What role does humility play in achieving?  How does one win while focusing on being humble?

Jul 8, 2005 11:47 am
Put Trader:
Starka:

As I am not God, there are things "about the business that I'm engaged in" that I'm not aware of.


Humility, Put.  You should try it.  After all, you have so much to be humble about.




What role does humility play in achieving?  How does one win while focusing on being humble?


And just what would you, a refugee from production, know about winning OR achieving?

Jul 8, 2005 12:16 pm
Put Trader:

 
What role does humility play in achieving?  How does one win while focusing on being humble?





A$$hopper, here's what some of your peers are achieving (ref Level 5 leaders):



"Transformation to greatness is possible because of leaders, who are
able to combine extreme personal humility with intense professional
will.



Level 5 refers to the highest level of leadership capabilities. The
characteristics common to Level 5 leaders include: personal humility,
professional will, unwaivering resolve, and the practice of giving
credit to others while assigning blame to themselves (cue the
reverberation effect)."  Collins, J.C. Good to Great: Why some companies make the leap and others don't



(Remember the Seinfeld episode where Jerry suggests to George
that he should try doing the opposite of whatever his natural urge
would be...whadya think Porgy? Maybe you could start by calling your
brookie Bess. Let me think what a good name for an American
Staffordshire Terrier would be instead of velcro...hmm...frobro? And
you can call this a humble shakedown.)






Jul 8, 2005 1:12 pm
Starka:

Roger, what's the deal with LUTC?  Is it geared specifically towards the insurance industry, or is it a general sales training course?


It's the origional third party training for life agents.


LUTC is going through some changes to make it more appealing to a broader audience, including retail brokers and financial advisors.


I've been moderating the courses for three years, and compared to what one does to obtain licenses, and other popular credentials (CLU, ChFC, CFP), the LUTC program is the ONLY one that has a focus on sales, and the activities that make a financial services professional successful.

Jul 8, 2005 1:15 pm
Put Trader:



LUTC has become a division of The American College and has also gotten itself tied in with a relatively new organization called NAIFA--National Association of Financial and Insurance Advisors.


Incorrect. NAIFA is ex NALU, which is the oldest organization of financial services professionals in the United States.

Jul 8, 2005 1:37 pm
Roger Thornhill:

Incorrect. NAIFA is ex NALU, which is the oldest organization of financial services professionals in the United States.





NALU has been around forever, but NAIFA is new, even though it's nothing more than a renaming of an old organization.



NAIFA is approaching banks and brokerage houses in an attempt to build
participation in their local chapters--something NALU did not do, or
was unable to do.



Several of us went to a NAIFA gathering on Long Island--we were
unimpressed with the quality of the "professionals" we met. 
Poorly dressed, poorly spoken, poorly educated--but a possible source
of referals.



We would never hire them, but we were more than willing to attempt to exploit them.



In any case, if a stock broker type--say with Merrill--wants to access
the LUTC training program it is my understanding that they will have to
join NAIFA.  Am I right?

Jul 8, 2005 2:26 pm
Put Trader:
Roger Thornhill:

Incorrect. NAIFA is ex NALU, which is the oldest organization of financial services professionals in the United States.



 

 Several of us went to a NAIFA gathering on Long Island--we were
unimpressed with the quality of the "professionals" we met. 
Poorly dressed, poorly spoken, poorly educated--but a possible source
of referals.



We would never hire them, but we were more than willing to attempt to exploit them.


 





Okay, instead of Judge Smails we go with Pudge Smails...whadya think Commodore?