Repayment

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Feb 1, 2006 2:25 pm

I work for MS and I am about 8 months into it.  I am thinking about leaving the brokerage business to become an analyst for another firm in their Private Wealth/Investment Management division. When I came to MS they told me if I left and stayed in the same business I would have to repay them, but if I went into another business I would not...but I am no longer going to be a broker, so would I be exonerated? I dont have a book, no clients and I would not solicit any current clients I have learned about while at the firm. The last thing I want to do is write a check for 50k when I never even recieved that much worth of training. How would MS even know that I left and went to another bank? I dont even have that kind of money right now, any ideas?

Feb 1, 2006 8:23 pm

Get a copy of the contract you signed, when you first started at MS. What does it say? A verbal assurance that you'd only have to pay back expenses if you stayed in the business may conflict with what the written contract says. Get an attorney to look it over.


Upon leaving, MS would know you stayed in the business, if they received a request to transfer your securities licenses to another firm.


Feb 2, 2006 11:42 am

thanks, now I wonder, is it even worth leaving. If anyone has left a
firm and been asked to repay, I would love to hear your story and how
you dealt with it.



THANKS

Feb 2, 2006 8:06 pm

I hate to tell you this, but you may have two things to worry about. One, is leaving (of your own accord) and paying back training expenses. Two, is being terminated (because of poor production) and having to pay back training expenses.


If your production is as poor as you make out, you may be terminated soon. So, you have an important decision to make. Rather than "thinking" about getting out of the business, you need to make a final decision and either get out or get with it.


If you decide to get out, see an attorney and take a copy of your contract, first!


If you decide to stay, you need to work fast and hard. Chances are that you're already in their crosshairs, for termination, for lack of production. That means you're going to have to put in long hours and have lots of face-to-face with prospects. Draw up a business plan and give it to your boss. Tell him/her that your production has been unacceptable and that things are going to change, now.


This business plan should double everything that is normally expected of a rookie. Double the calls, double the contacts, and double the appointments. This type of plan will take you out of the crosshairs (for now) and buy you some time to implement it.


The plan should include a list of prospects that you can call on at 10AM, 4PM, 9PM, and 3AM. Yeah, that's right, 3AM. I'm sure there are some businesses in your area that you could call on, at 3AM.


I guarantee you; if you do this, your business will turn around. But it will take a firm commitment from you, right now.


If you can't commit, see an attorney, now.

Feb 2, 2006 9:41 pm

Dob,


Man, you are one hardcore SOB!!  I like it.  

Feb 3, 2006 8:29 am

Just get out of the biz.

Feb 3, 2006 9:15 am

I was not aware that they could ask you to repay training cost if you were fired.  We have not gone after any of the people in my branch who were fired.

Feb 3, 2006 12:51 pm

I know a lot of people in this business, and the only time I have heard of a firm going after someone is if they are trying to move clients (good clients), leave on bad terms (aka kicking and screaming), or cost the BM money due to retention percentages (not very common senario).


Leave professionally, don't throw it in their face you're going to another firm (actually I'd say don't tell them you have any idea what your going to do), and leave your clients alone for a year, and you might not have any issues.

Feb 3, 2006 7:49 pm

I didn't want to come off as being hard on Diplomaticos, but I guarantee you that he is (now) being considered for termination, if his numbers are as low as he says they are. He needs to decide what to do now and take the appropriate action.


If he decides to stay in the business, handing the manager a plan to reverse his current misfortune, might buy him some time to turn it around. But it can't be a standard business plan, it has got to be one that makes his manager's eyes pop.


I guarantee you that his contract has a provision for repayment of training expenses even in the event of being fired for lack of production. Or the contract is vague enough to allow pursuit of repayment, in such instances. Whether MS pursues it is another matter.

Feb 5, 2006 1:06 am

The contract was prepared by the Law Division, so don't expect any
loopholes. But I was also told that if I decided the business wasn't
for me I wouldn't have to pay. The contract was to prevent someone from
getting lucky with a 10mm account, leave the company for let's say a
30K sign bonus, and stiff MS with the "training" costs. All my buddies
were told the same story. 2 were fired for failing the 7 and one left
to become an assistant to a trader, and none were forced to pay.



Good luck.

Feb 5, 2006 10:41 pm

Anyone know if there typically is a severence package at the major firms?  I work for one of the big three and am ready to move on to other things, but have to wait for them to fire me b/c of the whole repayment issue. 


If they fire me can I expect an extra month of salary/benefits?  I realize they have already lost money on me but I still have to eat while I'm in transition...


I'm only making 30k so its not like an extra month is going to kill them.  What do you think?


Feb 5, 2006 11:19 pm
ShortNakedPuts:

Anyone know if there typically is a severence package at the major firms?  I work for one of the big three and am ready to move on to other things, but have to wait for them to fire me b/c of the whole repayment issue. 


If they fire me can I expect an extra month of salary/benefits?  I realize they have already lost money on me but I still have to eat while I'm in transition...


I'm only making 30k so its not like an extra month is going to kill them.  What do you think?





$175,000/year with compounded growth of 7%, until the last of your remaindermen dies.

Feb 6, 2006 1:42 am

I've seen A LOT of people come and go from MS.  Always by Choice (not always their choice).  They have only sued the ones who jumped to another firm and took some clients.  Nothing has ever happened to the ones who went to local banks or got out of the business, or just got fired.


It may depend on the manager and your demographic...  for instance... small office w/ nice manager is much different than a large office with a real jerk of manager.


I say ride it out and get fired, I doubt anything would come of it since you arent producing, but seek the advice of a lawyer first.

Feb 6, 2006 9:05 am
ShortNakedPuts:

Anyone know if there typically is a severence package at the major firms?  I work for one of the big three and am ready to move on to other things, but have to wait for them to fire me b/c of the whole repayment issue. 


If they fire me can I expect an extra month of salary/benefits?  I realize they have already lost money on me but I still have to eat while I'm in transition...


I'm only making 30k so its not like an extra month is going to kill them.  What do you think?




Are you kidding?  THey pay to get you licensed and train you....you don't generate enough income to hold your desk, and now you're looking for severance?


There may be some correlation between that attitude and your current status of one foot on a bannana peel and one foot in the grave.


I suggest you look into a career in civil service.  You'll fit right in.

Feb 6, 2006 11:09 am
joedabrkr:

Are you kidding?  THey pay to get you licensed and train
you....you don't generate enough income to hold your desk, and now
you're looking for severance?


There may be some correlation between that attitude and your current
status of one foot on a bannana peel and one foot in the grave.


I suggest you look into a career in civil service.  You'll fit right in.





Why the resentment towards me just because I decided I don't want to be
a Financial Hassler?  Nothing against what you guys do, but for me
its not for me.  I didn't bust my hump throughout college to
become a glorified telemarketer.  My impression of telemarketers
has always been that they are the scum of the earth, and I cannot feel
good about myself at the end of a long day of harassing people over the
phone.  If you can, fine. 



Only reason I was thinking about severance is because I've heard that
people have gotten it before...pretty much every company on the planet
offers something because they realize people need to feed their
families. 



Oh and Joe - if the whole broker thing doesn't work out, I'm sure you
can get a job with MCI trying to get people to switch their long
distance service, or if you're lucky you could become a door to door
steak knife salesman!  Because that's all this job qualifies you
for!

Feb 6, 2006 11:20 am
ShortNakedPuts:
joedabrkr:

Are you kidding?  THey pay to get you licensed and train you....you don't generate enough income to hold your desk, and now you're looking for severance?


There may be some correlation between that attitude and your current status of one foot on a bannana peel and one foot in the grave.


I suggest you look into a career in civil service.  You'll fit right in.




Why the resentment towards me just because I decided I don't want to be a Financial Hassler?  Nothing against what you guys do, but for me its not for me.  I didn't bust my hump throughout college to become a glorified telemarketer.  My impression of telemarketers has always been that they are the scum of the earth, and I cannot feel good about myself at the end of a long day of harassing people over the phone.  If you can, fine. 

Only reason I was thinking about severance is because I've heard that people have gotten it before...pretty much every company on the planet offers something because they realize people need to feed their families. 

Oh and Joe - if the whole broker thing doesn't work out, I'm sure you can get a job with MCI trying to get people to switch their long distance service, or if you're lucky you could become a door to door steak knife salesman!  Because that's all this job qualifies you for!


There was no resentment before, merely amazement that you would expect to receive a severance package after failing to even make the initial hurdles in a position where ultimately your income depends solely upon your success.


I do, however, resent your assumption that, because you have attempted to build your little pamphlet up by telemarketing that the rest of us are nothing more than glorified telemarketers.  There are many fine professionals in our field who forgot more last week that you know about how to find clients and help them invest their money wisely.


I think you should continue with your belief that this work is 'beneath you'.  Leaves more opportunities for the rest of us.  Perhaps you should consider checking with your local postmaster, or the carpenter's union.   I hear those are two employers who offer 'severance packages'.


Thanks for the MCI suggestion, but I don't really need it.  The 'broker thing' has been 'working out' extremely well for me for over a decade now.


'nuf said. piker

Feb 6, 2006 11:56 am
ShortNakedPuts:
joedabrkr:

Are you kidding?  THey pay to get you licensed and train you....you don't generate enough income to hold your desk, and now you're looking for severance?


There may be some correlation between that attitude and your current status of one foot on a bannana peel and one foot in the grave.


I suggest you look into a career in civil service.  You'll fit right in.




Why the resentment towards me just because I decided I don't want to be a Financial Hassler?  Nothing against what you guys do, but for me its not for me.  I didn't bust my hump throughout college to become a glorified telemarketer.  My impression of telemarketers has always been that they are the scum of the earth, and I cannot feel good about myself at the end of a long day of harassing people over the phone.  If you can, fine. 

Only reason I was thinking about severance is because I've heard that people have gotten it before...pretty much every company on the planet offers something because they realize people need to feed their families. 

Oh and Joe - if the whole broker thing doesn't work out, I'm sure you can get a job with MCI trying to get people to switch their long distance service, or if you're lucky you could become a door to door steak knife salesman!  Because that's all this job qualifies you for!



I've got a Master's Degree in Accounting and my first year in the business, I made $80,000 as a "telemarketer." My second year, I made about $150,000 as a "telemarketer." I don't know about YOUR little college degreee, but mine couldn't even sniff anything close to that in two years.


Obviously, you're not entrepreneurally spirited enough to hack it. Don't feel bad. People who own businesses, like Joe and I, need people who can't achieve a higher level than "worker" to do our busywork.

Feb 6, 2006 12:27 pm

If the only method of prospecting you have is cold calling, you would have had an extremely good chance of failing at this business and hating your job.  But, that is your choice or your company's choice.


I think the industry is moving away from hiring the 22 year olds fresh out of college.  More success seems to come from 40 - 50 year olds with established community relationships.


too bad for you.

Feb 6, 2006 12:31 pm

"Why the resentment towards me just because I decided I don't want to be a Financial Hassler?  Nothing against what you guys do, but for me its not for me.  I didn't bust my hump throughout college to become a glorified telemarketer.  My impression of telemarketers has always been that they are the scum of the earth, and I cannot feel good about myself at the end of a long day of harassing people over the phone.  If you can, fine"


Thanks for playing........ Buh bye........

Feb 6, 2006 12:40 pm

Maybe he should've taken "How to work hard" in college.