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Apr 24, 2005 4:45 pm

NOW LADIES AND GENTLEMEN WHAT HAVE WE HERE!!!

WE HAVE THAT SCUMBAG RACIST FROTHING AND FOAMING FROM THE MOUTH TOO ANGRY TO HIDE HIS TRUE FEELINGS ANYMORE

LET NO-ONE EVER SAY TO THEMSELVES THAT A LITTLE PREJUDICE, A SLIGHT HINT OF RACISM IS OK - FOR AS I HAVE SAID ALL ALONG - RACISM IS THE CESSPOOL BREEDING GROUND OF VERMIN - WHICH IF LEFT UNCHECKED - MULTIPLIES AND SPREADS LIKE THE TRUE VIRUS IT IS.


LET US EXAMINE PROF PUT TRADER IN HIS EARLIER REMARKS - I AM NOT A RACIST. I JUST WOULD NOT HIRE THEM DUE TO THE PERCEIVED BIASES OF CLIENTS - IT IS A PURELY BUSINESS DECISION......


NOW MY FRIENDS, HAVING CHALLENGED HIS CRAP, HE CAN CONTAIN HIMSELF NO LONGER AND NOW STATES IN HIS VERY OWN WORDS IN THE THREAD TITLED "A LITTLE AGEISM FOR PROF. PUT TRADER" THE FOLLOWING ABOUT COLOURED PEOPLE....


Most of the Negroes in the United States are too stupid to graduate from high school much less pass qualification exams for professional positions.

The few who are gravitate to the true professions, medicine and the law.

Since the NASD is not willing to curve or race-norm the Series 7 it is doubtful that there will ever be more than a handful of Negroes in the brokerage industry.

Well, that's not necessarily true--you don't have to pass exams to work in operations or investment banking so that' where you see them


HMMM, STILL BUSINESS DECISIONS YOU SCUMBUG??? OR THE ROTTEN THINKING OF A LITTLE HITLER?????

Apr 24, 2005 6:00 pm
dancethedrink:

NOW LADIES AND GENTLEMEN WHAT HAVE WE HERE!!!

WE HAVE THAT SCUMBAG RACIST FROTHING AND FOAMING FROM THE MOUTH TOO ANGRY TO HIDE HIS TRUE FEELINGS ANYMORE

LET
NO-ONE EVER SAY TO THEMSELVES THAT A LITTLE PREJUDICE, A SLIGHT HINT OF
RACISM IS OK - FOR AS I HAVE SAID ALL ALONG - RACISM IS THE CESSPOOL
BREEDING GROUND OF VERMIN - WHICH IF LEFT UNCHECKED - MULTIPLIES
AND SPREADS LIKE THE TRUE VIRUS IT IS.


LET US EXAMINE PROF PUT TRADER IN HIS EARLIER REMARKS - I AM NOT A
RACIST. I JUST WOULD NOT HIRE THEM DUE TO THE PERCEIVED BIASES OF
CLIENTS - IT IS A PURELY BUSINESS DECISION......


NOW MY FRIENDS, HAVING CHALLENGED HIS CRAP, HE CAN CONTAIN HIMSELF
NO LONGER AND NOW STATES IN HIS VERY OWN WORDS IN THE THREAD TITLED "A
LITTLE AGEISM FOR PROF. PUT TRADER" THE FOLLOWING ABOUT COLOURED
PEOPLE....


Most of the Negroes in the United
States are too stupid to graduate from high school much less pass
qualification exams for professional positions.

The few who are gravitate to the true professions, medicine and the law.

Since
the NASD is not willing to curve or race-norm the Series 7 it is
doubtful that there will ever be more than a handful of Negroes in the
brokerage industry.

Well, that's not necessarily true--you don't
have to pass exams to work in operations or investment banking so that'
where you see them


HMMM, STILL BUSINESS DECISIONS YOU SCUMBUG??? OR THE ROTTEN THINKING OF A LITTLE HITLER?????





What percentage of the American Negroes graduated from high school
before society began to pass kids from one grade to the next regardless
of their mastery of the subject matter?



Why does asking questions dealing with "difficult" topics cause so much angst?



I believe the answer to the above question is "very few."  Am I
wrong in my conclusion or am I wrong to even ask the question?



If questions remain unasked does that meant that the answers to those questions are not valid?



How about this one.  It is often said that Negroes do not value
education because they have not been taught to value education.



Why does somebody have to be "taught" the value of education.  Is
it not prima facia evidence of stupidity to not realize that successful
people are educated and unsuccessful people are not?



For years every Sunday morning I walked from my midtown apartment to
125th Street--normally through the park.  I would then hop a bus
and ride back to midtown.



I was the only white person to get on the bus at 125th Street that
early on a Sunday--normally there would only be a few others on the
bus.  Those others were often little black ladies in white gloves
and their Sunday best--they were going to Mass at St. Patricks or
somewhere else along the way.



I'd sit and chat with the ladies and I REFUSE to believe that they did
not understand that the way out of poverty is through the
schools.  I refuse to believe that they were not telling their
children and grandchildren to stay in school--and I refuse to believe
that they were not heartbroken when their children and grandchildren
dropped out for the same reason they and their husbands dropped out.



A basic inability to keep up as the difficulty of the work increased.



There are things that I simply cannot grasp.  I can grasp a lot more than my wife can grasp.



I full understand that society cannot allow the citizenry to believe
that there are differences in the cognitive skills among the sexes and
the races--but just because civil society does not want to know certain
truths does not make those truths false.



What is curious is how somebody who discusses "sensitive" topics out
loud is shouted down rather than debunked with facts that counter the
insensitive point of view.



Classic shoot the messenger stuff.

Apr 24, 2005 7:26 pm

Put Trader is right.  He's just a bit too blunt for most people (but not for me).



Look at the facts.  You will see that the same things we see in
America with regard to racial performance in life that we see in many
other countries.



Take a look at the black crime rates in London or large Canadian
cities.  Then take a look at academic achievement of black
students there.  There are no differences at all between other
countries and America.



Put Trader, nobody challenges with facts anymore.  The
politically correct way of doing things is just to attack the person
who says things that some group doesn't like.



What happened when the president of Harvard suggested that there may be
differences between males and females with regard to their ability to
achieve in mathematics?  He was attacked.



Educational statistics.  IQ scores.  Prison
incarceration/crime rates.  Look at those for America then compare
them with other parts of the world that have black populations. 
There is absolutely no difference.



People may not like to admit it.  But it is true.  What's
even more true is that people know these things and are going to tend
to be biased against blacks, even the ones who are fully
qualified.  I'm not saying it is right, but it is just the way it
is.



However, while what Put Trader said about branch managers denying
blacks the opportunity to become financial advisors because the
probability of them succeeding is next to none may statistically be
sound, it is institutional racism nonetheless.



I don't like discrimination at all.  But if you were to put an
Asian kid and a black kid in a room, which one would you guess would be
better at math?  Which one would statistically be more likely to
be better at math?  If you had the responsiblity to pick the one
who was better at math before they could prove their skills to you,
which one would you pick?



That's no different than what a branch manager has to do.










Apr 24, 2005 7:55 pm
Inquisitive:

However, while what Put Trader said about branch managers denying
blacks the opportunity to become financial advisors because the
probability of them succeeding is next to none may statistically be
sound, it is institutional racism nonetheless.





As I have said several times I believe the term "racism" is cheapened
when it is used to describe somebody who decides not to hire somebody.



If that manager or client is a racist what word does this language have
to describe those guys in Texas who tied a black man to the back of
their pickup truck with chain and dragged him until his body came apart?

Apr 24, 2005 8:11 pm

Another racist.

Apr 24, 2005 8:35 pm
dancethedrink:

Another racist.





Yep, you mental midgets see racism everywhere--what a convenient excuse for being a failure.



Tell me, loser, if Mr. and Mrs. Jones choose a white guy to manage their money because they are white people are they racists?

Apr 24, 2005 11:26 pm
Put Trader:
dancethedrink:

NOW LADIES AND GENTLEMEN WHAT HAVE WE HERE!!!

WE HAVE THAT SCUMBAG RACIST FROTHING AND FOAMING FROM THE MOUTH TOO ANGRY TO HIDE HIS TRUE FEELINGS ANYMORE

LET NO-ONE EVER SAY TO THEMSELVES THAT A LITTLE PREJUDICE, A SLIGHT HINT OF RACISM IS OK - FOR AS I HAVE SAID ALL ALONG - RACISM IS THE CESSPOOL BREEDING GROUND OF VERMIN - WHICH IF LEFT UNCHECKED - MULTIPLIES AND SPREADS LIKE THE TRUE VIRUS IT IS.


LET US EXAMINE PROF PUT TRADER IN HIS EARLIER REMARKS - I AM NOT A RACIST. I JUST WOULD NOT HIRE THEM DUE TO THE PERCEIVED BIASES OF CLIENTS - IT IS A PURELY BUSINESS DECISION......


NOW MY FRIENDS, HAVING CHALLENGED HIS CRAP, HE CAN CONTAIN HIMSELF NO LONGER AND NOW STATES IN HIS VERY OWN WORDS IN THE THREAD TITLED "A LITTLE AGEISM FOR PROF. PUT TRADER" THE FOLLOWING ABOUT COLOURED PEOPLE....


Most of the Negroes in the United States are too stupid to graduate from high school much less pass qualification exams for professional positions.

The few who are gravitate to the true professions, medicine and the law.

Since the NASD is not willing to curve or race-norm the Series 7 it is doubtful that there will ever be more than a handful of Negroes in the brokerage industry.

Well, that's not necessarily true--you don't have to pass exams to work in operations or investment banking so that' where you see them


HMMM, STILL BUSINESS DECISIONS YOU SCUMBUG??? OR THE ROTTEN THINKING OF A LITTLE HITLER?????




What percentage of the American Negroes graduated from high school before society began to pass kids from one grade to the next regardless of their mastery of the subject matter?

Why does asking questions dealing with "difficult" topics cause so much angst?

I believe the answer to the above question is "very few."  Am I wrong in my conclusion or am I wrong to even ask the question?

If questions remain unasked does that meant that the answers to those questions are not valid?

How about this one.  It is often said that Negroes do not value education because they have not been taught to value education.

Why does somebody have to be "taught" the value of education.  Is it not prima facia evidence of stupidity to not realize that successful people are educated and unsuccessful people are not?

For years every Sunday morning I walked from my midtown apartment to 125th Street--normally through the park.  I would then hop a bus and ride back to midtown.

I was the only white person to get on the bus at 125th Street that early on a Sunday--normally there would only be a few others on the bus.  Those others were often little black ladies in white gloves and their Sunday best--they were going to Mass at St. Patricks or somewhere else along the way.

I'd sit and chat with the ladies and I REFUSE to believe that they did not understand that the way out of poverty is through the schools.  I refuse to believe that they were not telling their children and grandchildren to stay in school--and I refuse to believe that they were not heartbroken when their children and grandchildren dropped out for the same reason they and their husbands dropped out.

A basic inability to keep up as the difficulty of the work increased.

There are things that I simply cannot grasp.  I can grasp a lot more than my wife can grasp.

I full understand that society cannot allow the citizenry to believe that there are differences in the cognitive skills among the sexes and the races--but just because civil society does not want to know certain truths does not make those truths false.

What is curious is how somebody who discusses "sensitive" topics out loud is shouted down rather than debunked with facts that counter the insensitive point of view.

Classic shoot the messenger stuff.


Wow....another jewel from Put Trader.


How come you grasp so much more than your wife?  Is she a Negro?  Or is it because her cognitive skills are diminished because she is a woman.  Wow....apply that logic consistently and Condoleeza Rice should be an absolute MORON!


Have you and inquisitive ever considered the possibility that the poor educational success of black Americans may also have something to do with the fact that schools in predominantly black neighborhoods often receive far less funding?  That more often black kids grow up in single parent families, and sadly famlies that are in economic distress?  That must make it a little harder for them to study when their parent(singular) is worried about putting food on the table.  For those who do get ahead in their educational careers, there are plenty of racists like you who sadly will never give them a half decent change to apply their knowledge.


You've hardly provided us with much in the way of statistics and fact, by the way.  Just conventional wisdom and your anecdotal observations, screened by your own obviously strong bias.


Then again-you have a right to your opinion, no matter how disgusting.  In this great country even racists are allowed to freely speak their mind.  Crazy as it seems, and offensive as your opinions might be, I support your freedom to share them.

Apr 25, 2005 6:13 am

Wow....another jewel from Put Trader.

How come you grasp so much more than your wife?  Is she a Negro?  Or
is it because her cognitive skills are diminished because she is a
woman.  Wow....apply that logic consistently and Condoleeza Rice should
be an absolute MORON!


First, Dr.
Rice is an example of the freaks of nature that occur--she's a black
equivalent of a Stephen Hawking, and is hardly indicative of the
greater population.


As for my
wife, no she's not a Negro but she is a woman and I'm here to tell you
that she is unable to grasp math higher than checkbook balancing. 
On the other hand, she's an absolute genius at non-math intellectual
exercises--verbal on the SAT.


The Larry
Summers observation come to my very own home and willingly acknowledged
by my wife.  One of her favorite statements is, "I'd be willing to
give up my right to vote if all women were denied the right to
vote."  Gotta love a girl who has her act together like that.





Have you and inquisitive ever considered the possibility that the
poor educational success of black Americans may also have something to
do with the fact that schools in predominantly black neighborhoods
often receive far less funding?

Yep, I've
considered it--considered it a lot in fact.  And I've dismissed it
as grasping for excuses to deny the real truth.


If there was
somewhere in the world you could point to where the Negro is excelling
I might buy into the argument that our home grown versions are simply
denied opportunity--but you can't.


For
generations educators have been maintaining stats regarding IQ tests,
SAT scores and so forth.  What they show is that among the lowest
socio-economic classes Negroes score lower than Whites and Whites score
lower than Asians.  That same dynamic is true among the middle
classes and among the upper classes as well.


In other
words, in the inner city the Negroes do the worst--but they also do the
worst in the suburbs.  That tends to debunk the whine that "If we
just spent more money they'd do better."





<>That more often black kids grow up in
single parent families, and sadly famlies that are in economic
distress?  That must make it a little harder for them to study when
their parent(singular) is worried about putting food on the table.

I agree that
bastards have a rougher life--but there are lots of bastards in the
White and Asian communities as well but the only time we hear, "Of
course they're doing bad in school they have single mothers" is when
their names look like they were chosen by a random draw of Scrabble
tiles.



Do you believe that Negro women are not telling their bastards that
they should stay in school?  Do you believe that the mothers are
actively urging their kids to engage in all of the behaviors that
ensure failure?



Is the inability to grasp the importance of school, or not getting
pregnant at 10 years old, or not committing crimes not a sign of
stupidity in itself?



In other words does it not make more sense that poor people are poor
because they are stupid rather than they're stupid because they're poor?









For
those who do get ahead in their educational careers, there are plenty
of racists like you who sadly will never give them a half decent change
to apply their knowledge.



Is it
possible--JUST POSSIBLE--that their  "educational career" is
actually not that big a deal.  Is it possible--JUST POSSIBLE--that
the diploma or degree that they have was awarded in spite of a lack of
knowledge and skills instead of because of knowledge and skills.



A legacy of social engineering is that those who are granted special
treatment carry a stigma that they are simply the receipients of
special treatment and not truly qualified.



Colin Powell epitomizes that "problem."  He was a C and D student
at a notoriously easy college, yet he rose to be Secretary of
State?  Just how does one believe in the importance of studying
hard in college with that--unless they add to the mix an incredible run
of luck at being in the right place at the right time.





<>

You've hardly provided us with much in the way of statistics and
fact, by the way.  Just conventional wisdom and your anecdotal
observations, screened by your own obviously strong bias.


There are
plenty of statisitcs, it's just that society cannot allow them to be
out there.  Can you imagine the damage done to our economy if
officials actually went on TV and announced that genetic science--DNA,
XY stuff--had proven beyond a doubt that there is an intellectual
hierarchy among the races?


You whiners tend to have a child-like faith in government so let me explain something to you.


There are
some things that are too emotionally explosive to deal with, and as
such there is no reason to fund studies looking for them.


Depending on
your age, and your tendency to keep up with current news, you may
recall that a number of years ago it was suggested that every criminal
in every prison and jail in the country should give a sample of their
saliva for DNA analysis.  The study was going to determine if
there is a "violence gene."


That
proposal got exactly nowhere--shouted down as "racist" by those who
shout things like that.  Are you intellectually curious enough to
wonder if their might be a genetic code there--and if so could the code
be altered and violent crime reduced if not eliminated?


What is
truly sad is that the fear of identifying things like a "violence gene"
causes a lack of research into genetic links to things like Sickle Cell
Anemia and other diseases that only attack Negroes.


Of course
there is probability--as in 100%--that science would also isolate the
genetic pairings that control IQ.  What if there is a combination
that is common among those who tend to sloth and laziness--you know,
sitting on the stoop drinking malt liquor or taking a siesta every day.


Does it make
sense to you that genetic combinations dictate just about everything
about us, from the color of our eyes to the texture of our hair--but
that genetics has absolutely nothing to do with tendencies to get
certain diseases, tendencies to be violent, tendencies to be athletic,
tendencies to be lazy, and yes cognitive skills as well.


Does that really make sense to you?  Really?




Then again-you have a right to your opinion, no matter how
disgusting.  In this great country even racists are allowed to freely
speak their mind.  Crazy as it seems, and offensive as your opinions
might be, I support your freedom to share them.


What is
disgusting about curiosity?  I am simply asking "hard questions"
and giving voice to reality.  Are we simply to not talk about
certain things because it makes others uncomfortable--is that it in
your world?

Apr 25, 2005 11:12 am

In case anyone thinks Put Trader as made a genuine scientific point with sickle cell anemia as a genetic disease that "only attacks Negroes"



Sickle Cell Anemia is a major health problem of black people in Africa, South America, Latin America, the West Indies and the United States. In the United States, about 1 out of every 10 black Americans has Sickle Cell Trait and about 1 out of 400 has Sickle Cell Anemia. But Sickle Cell Anemia is not confined to black people. It is also found In some racial groups who live around the Mediterranean Sea. For example, It is found in some Greeks, Italians, Sicilians and Turks. The reason African and other peoples who live in that area have sickling appears to be related to malaria. Although having Sickle Cell Anemia has always been a disadvantage, having Sickle Cell Trait is beneficial in areas where malaria is a problem. Individuals with Sickle Trait are resistant to malaria; they do not get it as often as normal individuals, but if they do get malaria they do not die as frequently.


http://www.sicklecelldisease-il.org/sections/what/parents.ht ml


Apr 25, 2005 11:21 am

In case anyone thinks Put Trader as made a genuine scientific point
with sickle cell anemia as a genetic disease that "only attacks Negroes"



In this country Sikle Cell Anemia is a problem of the black
community.  That it appears in Mediterranean populations is
irrelevant to my point.



Tell us Stan, do you favor investigating possible genetic links to
things such as intelligence--or are you so gobbled up by political
correctness that you could not live with what it might reveal?




Apr 25, 2005 11:28 am

"In this country Sikle Cell Anemia is a problem of the black community.  That it appears in Mediterranean populations is irrelevant to my point."<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />


Actually it's very relevant to your "point" in two ways. First, it proves you haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about. Second, it proves than genetics  haven't been proved to be the common factor of the disease, that the "nature nurture" debate rages on.

"Tell us Stan, do you favor investigating possible genetic links to things such as intelligence--or are you so gobbled up by political correctness that you could not live with what it might reveal?"


ROFLMAO, yeah, I'm PC. That's just too funny. I suppose to a Klansman I’m a screaming PC fanatic. I'm for scientific research period. Let it lead where it leads. The "nature nurture" debate will continue, and there’s no doubt people like you will misuse the data.


Again, you've drifted from your "why I'm a good guy for not hiring minorities" mantra to Klan talking points.


Apr 25, 2005 12:30 pm

Again, you've drifted from your "why I'm a good guy for not hiring minorities" mantra to Klan talking points.



No I haven't.  I am in the school of thought that believes that one should find a career that fits their situation.



The reality is that women and minorities both have a horribly difficult time in this business.



No doubt potential clients who will not do business with them are often
misguided but that does not change the reality that those attitudes are
out there.



I also believe that the attitude is as prevelant in this particular industry as it would be in choosing a doctor.



Is it wrong that a white man with cancer will not have faith in a black
doctor?  Possibly, perhaps even probably--but the reality is that
it is an emotion that is very common.



How many black oncologists are there in private practice in this
country?  I dont' know, but I'll bet it's a very very very small
number of them.



I am not up to speed on the medical profession, but I'll bet there are
discussions among black doctors as to where they are most likely to
find success--and I'll bet that it is not in a highly specialized
private practice.



If a black guy wants to be an oncologist he will probably find himself
to be most comfortable in a public hospital environment where the
customer doesn't really have a choice.



It's a harsh reality of life that when given a choice white people will
choose to deal with fellow white people--and when it comes time to
choosing a professional most black people also choose to deal with
white people.



As Edith Ann would say, "....and that's the truth!"

Apr 25, 2005 12:47 pm

Again, you've drifted from your "why I'm a good guy for not hiring minorities" mantra to Klan talking points.

"No I haven't."


Sure you have as your sidebar diatribes about "the negro" and genetics proves.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />


 "I am in the school of thought that believes that one should find a career that fits their situation."


Their "situation" as described by a bigot....

"The reality is that women and minorities both have a horribly difficult time in this business."


No one's said that isn't true. What we've said to you is that there's no reason to have a blanket "minorities need not apply" sign on your office door.

"I also believe that the attitude is as prevelant in this particular industry as it would be in choosing a doctor."


Then you may want to ask a few questions of the schools that produce them and the hospitals and practices that employ them, rather than babbling about the subject without a clue.

"Is it wrong that a white man with cancer will not have faith in a black doctor?  Possibly, perhaps even probably--but the reality is that it is an emotion that is very common."


"Very common"? Again, I suspect you grossly exaggerate this and you do so from your perspective about "the negro". And it’s only “possible” that someone might be wrong for judging the skill of a doctor based on his skin color? “POSSIBLY”????

"How many black oncologists are there in private practice in this country?  I dont' know, but I'll bet it's a very very very small number of them."


And that, dear readers, is the reason why Put Trader, if he were in charge of hiring doctors, wouldn't employ any....

"If a black guy wants to be an oncologist he will probably find himself to be most comfortable in a public hospital environment where the customer doesn't really have a choice."


That's no doubt conventional wisdom at Klan meetings when this subject comes up....

"It's a harsh reality of life that when given a choice white people will choose to deal with fellow white people--and when it comes time to choosing a professional most black people also choose to deal with white people."


Wow, somebody get a calendar. Is this 1920? Or is Put Trader just  living there?

"As Edith Ann would say, "....and that's the truth!""


As the Grand Flegal would say, "we don't need none 'o them negro professionals around here. No white man would trust him and neither would any negroes, for that matter"...



Apr 25, 2005 1:23 pm
joedabrkr:

Wow....another jewel from Put Trader.

How come you grasp so much more than your wife?  Is she a
Negro?  Or is it because her cognitive skills are diminished
because she is a woman.  Wow....apply that logic consistently and
Condoleeza Rice should be an absolute MORON!


Have you and inquisitive ever considered the possibility that the
poor educational success of black Americans may also have something to
do with the fact that schools in predominantly black neighborhoods
often receive far less funding? 



Not true!


Washington DC has almost the highest educational funding in the nation and they have the LOWEST student performance.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002/05/23/school-spendi ng.htm


Other states have spending less than half of Washington DC and much higher student performance.


There is asbolutely no correlation between adacemic performance and
spending.  However, there is a strong correlation between academic
performance and IQ!!!


joedabrkr:

That more often black kids grow up in single parent families, and sadly famlies that are in economic distress? 


http://www.eastbayexpress.com/issues/2003-05-21/news/feature _print.html


"The black parents wanted an explanation. Doctors, lawyers, judges, and
insurance brokers, many had come to the upscale Cleveland suburb of
Shaker Heights specifically because of its stellar school district.
They expected their children to succeed academically, but most were
performing poorly. African-American students were lagging far behind
their white classmates in every measure of academic success:
grade-point average, standardized test scores, and enrollment in
advanced-placement courses. On average, black students earned a 1.9 GPA
while their white counterparts held down an average of 3.45. Other
indicators were equally dismal. It made no sense."


"The professor and his research assistant moved to Shaker Heights for
nine months in mid-1997. They reviewed data and test scores. The team
observed 110 different classes, from kindergarten all the way through
high school. They conducted exhaustive interviews with school
personnel, black parents, and students. Their project yielded an
unexpected conclusion: It wasn't socioeconomics, school funding, or
racism, that accounted for the students' poor academic performance; it
was their own attitudes, and those of their parents."


Interesting--a black professor called in to study dismal performance
of black students concludes that neither economic status norracism was the cause.


Another good article:


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/sats/etc/gap.h tml


"
The (black student achievement) gap cannot be easily explained. Contrary to what might be expected,
Meredith Phillips and her colleagues suggest in The Black-White Test Score
Gap that parents' income differences by themselves have almost no effect on
children's test scores. Rather, they urge us to look further back in a child's
family tree."


AHHH!  Look back at the family tree.  Maybe because intelligence is genetic and tends to run in families?


And do you really expect people of low intelligence to have high
paying jobs like doctors and lawyers?  Or are high intelligence
people more likely to be able to endure the rigors of the educational
process to get into that field?


http://www.brookings.org/press/books/blckwhit.htm


"
Although significant attempts have been made over the past three
decades to shrink the test score gap, including increased funding for
predominantly black schools, desegregation of southern schools, and
programs to alleviate poverty, the median black American still scores
below 75 percent of American whites on most standardized tests. The
book brings together recent evidence on some of the most controversial
and puzzling aspects of the test score debate, including the role of
test bias, heredity, and family background."


"
The authors demonstrate that traditional explanations account for only
a small part of the black-white test score gap. They argue that this is
partly because traditional explanations have put too much emphasis on
racial disparities in economic resources, both in homes and in schools,
and on demographic factors like family structure."


joedabrkr:

That must make it a little harder for them to study when their
parent(singular) is worried about putting food on the table. 


Blacks make up the largest group of welfare recipients. 
Housing projects are filled with black families.  They AREN'T
working to put food on the table.  Your taxes are doing that.


joedabrkr:

For those who do get ahead in their educational careers, there are
plenty of racists like you who sadly will never give them a half decent
change to apply their knowledge.


I would be more than willing to hire anyone if they were the best for the job, no matter what color they were.


I don't think it's right to discriminate just on the basis of skin
color.  However, I am able to admit that there are difference
between the races, just as there are between genders, and between
individuals like you and me.


We are all different.


joedabrkr:

You've hardly provided us with much in the way of statistics and
fact, by the way.  Just conventional wisdom and your anecdotal
observations, screened by your own obviously strong bias.


What would you like?  SAT scores?  School district test
scores?  YOU can find that information yourself if you want
to.  But you realize that if you spent the time digging into it,
your conclusions would be no different than what you are arguing
against.


http://www.loni.ucla.edu/~thompson/MEDIA/NN/nsci2.html


"The researchers found that certain regions of the brain were highly heritable.
These included language areas, known as Broca's and Wernicke's areas, and
the frontal region, which is one of the areas that plays a huge role in
cognition. In identical twins, there was a 95 to 100 per cent correlation in
these areas
between one twin and the other - they were essentially the same. The frontal
structure, says Thompson, appears to be as highly influenced by genes as
fingerprints. "It's extraordinary how similar they are," he says.


The finding suggests that environment - the twins' personal experiences, what
they learned in life, who they knew - played a negligible role in shaping
that part of the brain."


joedabrkr:

Then again-you have a right to your opinion, no matter how disgusting. 



Don't confuse opinion and fact.  It is my opinion that
everybody should be treated according to their abilities.  It is
fact that real diffeneces exist between groups of people.


joedabrkr:

In this great country even racists are allowed to freely speak
their mind.  Crazy as it seems, and offensive as your
opinions might be, I support your freedom to share them.


Oh well, isn't that nice of joedabrkr!  My goodness, he
supports our right to state fact!  Contrast him against the
liberals out there who want to put people in jail for stating fact.


It is just plain silly to expect intelligence to increase because you throw more money at the schools.


http://nces.ed.gov/



Do the research yourself.  You'll see that your arguments don't hold water.



http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2001/inequality/6.asp






Apr 25, 2005 1:31 pm

One of your studies said;


"It wasn't socioeconomics, school funding, or racism, that accounted for the students' poor academic performance; it was their own attitudes, and those of their parents."



And another states;


" The (black student achievement) gap cannot be easily explained. Contrary to what might be expected, Meredith Phillips and her colleagues suggest in The Black-White Test Score Gap that parents' income differences by themselves have almost no effect on children's test scores. Rather, they urge us to look further back in a child's family tree."


And you conclude with; AHHH!  Look back at the family tree.  Maybe because intelligence is genetic and tends to run in families?


Notice neither of your studies said "genetic", they said "attitude", but you confused the two. Is that because you don't know any better?

Apr 25, 2005 1:38 pm

Further, your second study, in the source you provided says;


 "Jencks and Phillips, however, point out in The Black-White Test Score Gap that "despite endless speculation, no one has found genetic evidence indicating that blacks have less innate intellectual ability than whites."


It's interesting that a discussion about the hiring of qualified minorities devolves to a discussion about genetics and some poster's attempts to make this a "nature over nurture" issue. Even to the point of them distorting their own sources.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Apr 25, 2005 1:41 pm
stanwbrown:

One of your studies said;


"It wasn't socioeconomics, school funding, or racism, that accounted
for the students' poor academic performance; it was their own
attitudes, and those of their parents."



And another states;


" The (black student achievement) gap cannot be easily explained.
Contrary to what might be expected, Meredith Phillips and her
colleagues suggest in The Black-White Test Score Gap that
parents' income differences by themselves have almost no effect on
children's test scores. Rather, they urge us to look further back in a
child's family tree."


And you conclude with; AHHH!  Look back at the family
tree.  Maybe because intelligence is genetic and tends to run in
families?


Notice neither of your studies said "genetic", they said "attitude",
but you confused the two. Is that because you don't know any better?





A negative attitude towards education is in, and of itself, proof of stupidity.



How much effort does it take to attend a school in this country?

Apr 25, 2005 1:49 pm

"A negative attitude towards education is in, and of itself, proof of stupidity."


True, but it isn't proof that stupidity is genetic.


Obviously this is too tough for you....


"How much effort does it take to attend a school in this country?"


The question wasn't effort required, it's attitude required.

Apr 25, 2005 2:32 pm
stanwbrown:

One of your studies said;


"It wasn't socioeconomics, school funding, or racism, that accounted
for the students' poor academic performance; it was their own
attitudes, and those of their parents."



And another states;


" The (black student achievement) gap cannot be easily explained.
Contrary to what might be expected, Meredith Phillips and her
colleagues suggest in The Black-White Test Score Gap that
parents' income differences by themselves have almost no effect on
children's test scores. Rather, they urge us to look further back in a
child's family tree."


And you conclude with; AHHH!  Look back at the family
tree.  Maybe because intelligence is genetic and tends to run in
families?


Notice neither of your studies said "genetic", they said "attitude",
but you confused the two. Is that because you don't know any better?





They don't say genetic because that would be "politcally incorrect". 



Look at how some people are jumping all over Put Trader because of what
he said.  Do you think they want people like you harassing them,
calling them up at home, and throwing rocks through their windows?



Further, I also provided an article that discusses how researchers have
discovered that the brain, portions of which are responsible for
cognitive processing, are genetically differentiated and heritable.



"The researchers found that certain regions of the brain were highly heritable.
These included language areas, known as Broca's and Wernicke's areas, and
the frontal region, which is one of the areas that plays a huge role in
cognition."



If from that statement you can't conclude that genetics play a large role in intelligence, then there isn't much help for you.



By the way, criminal tendencies have a genetic basis as well.  Did you know that?



If you wanted to quickly Google for some information, you could. 
You don't want to because you don't want your view of the world to be
upset by the facts.  A quick Google brings up:



http://info.med.yale.edu/chldstdy/plomdevelop/genetics/99j ungen.htm



Intelligence is largely heritable.


Apr 25, 2005 2:35 pm


http://info.med.yale.edu/chldstdy/plomdevelop/genetics/99j ungen.htm



Intelligence is largely heritable.







Dude, please start posting links that work.