Personal contacts & Phone numbers

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Jul 9, 2006 5:38 pm

I went for an interview with First Investors.

To be considered for employment, you must provide a list of (at least) 50 personal contacts, with phone #'s. Just curious, is this generally SOP, throughout the industry?

The other thing that didn't sit well with me was the "draw" which was explained to me as an "advance of future earnings". Which is a nice way of saying "get ready to go into a deep, debt hole that may take a year to dig out of- if you're lucky".

I need a salary. I need income. I'm already in debt from student loans and credit cards. Why would anybody take a job right of college that will put them further in debt? That doesn't make any sense. Especially with the interest rates going up to 6% and beyond.


Jul 9, 2006 5:53 pm

Run--do not walk--in the other direction.

Jul 9, 2006 6:49 pm
NASD Newbie:

Run--do not walk--in the other direction.



I did.

Jul 10, 2006 9:17 am

You want a salary and income? Get a non-sales job.  Go punch a clock and collect a wage.


Seriously. I'm not trolling.

Jul 10, 2006 12:47 pm

Jesus man get out of there now. I interviewed with them 3 yrs ago back when I didn't know tit for tat about the industry. I gave them my cashier checks to pay for my own licensing and studying and the day I was supposed to begin, my ass tightened and I kindly asked for my money back.


Interview with Ameriprise, Ed Jones, Chase....anywhere but First Investors.


The honest to god truth is, it's not even a standard Draw system. They just use that as a front until they slap the old pyramid scheme on you where you end up paying your "mentors" money for doing business.


Jul 10, 2006 2:16 pm

None of the quality firms operate this way. A quality firm will train you at their expense. They will pick up all the fees for tests and registrations. All will pay you a salary that declines over time, gradually weening you from salary to 100% commission. All will have you sign a training agreement that obligates you to repay them their training cost should you fail. That amount is amortized over time and, to the best of my knowledge rarely enforced. 

Jul 10, 2006 5:28 pm
anabuhabkuss:

Jesus man get out of there now. I interviewed with them 3 yrs ago back when I didn't know tit for tat about the industry. I gave them my cashier checks to pay for my own licensing and studying and the day I was supposed to begin, my ass tightened and I kindly asked for my money back.


Interview with Ameriprise, Ed Jones, Chase....anywhere but First Investors.


The honest to god truth is, it's not even a standard Draw system. They just use that as a front until they slap the old pyramid scheme on you where you end up paying your "mentors" money for doing business.




I hear ya. I had real bad vibes in there.

Do you know anything about Ernst and Young?

Jul 10, 2006 6:10 pm
Slim2None:



Do you know anything about Ernst and Young?


Don't sit down and ask them, "Is it true that figures never lie, but liars always figure?"

Jul 10, 2006 7:36 pm
NASD Newbie:
Slim2None:



Do you know anything about Ernst and Young?


Don't sit down and ask them, "Is it true that figures never lie, but liars always figure?"



Can you elaborate? I'm intrigued by your comment.

Jul 10, 2006 8:02 pm
Slim2None:
NASD Newbie:
Slim2None:



Do you know anything about Ernst and Young?


Don't sit down and ask them, "Is it true that figures never lie, but liars always figure?"




Can you elaborate? I'm intrigued by your comment.


Ernst and Young is an example of the latest groups to join the wars--CPA firms.


For years small practioners have been getting licensed by places like HD Vest and First Global--but it's relatively new that the big worldwide accounting firms have been starting a securities selling effort.


So now, rather than getting a lead from a CPA friend you're going to find them trying to take your business away from you.  If you were an investor who would you figure is more qualified to help you with your retirement plan--some guy who can't spell or your CPA?

Jul 10, 2006 8:03 pm

Oh, I forgot the question.  The liars always figure statement is just a line that has been around for years--nothing meant to be implied--just that accounting firms use figures.

Jul 10, 2006 8:07 pm

You know who else is taking Series 7 and 66 so that they can play in the wars?


Law firms--yep lawyers.  Rank who you think the investors will trust to manage their money:


Lawyers, accountants, Schwab, a Vice President at Merrill Lynch, or some guy who doesn't know how to capitalize a sentence that is operating an "Indy" storefront next to a Chinese restaurant?

Jul 10, 2006 10:14 pm
NASD Newbie:

You know who else is taking Series 7 and 66 so that they can play in the wars?


Law firms--yep lawyers.  Rank who you think the investors will trust to manage their money:


Lawyers, accountants, Schwab, a Vice President at Merrill Lynch, or some guy who doesn't know how to capitalize a sentence that is operating an "Indy" storefront next to a Chinese restaurant?



They will trust the best salesman.  This could come from any of these professions.

Jul 10, 2006 10:33 pm
braves fan:
NASD Newbie:

You know who else is taking Series 7 and 66 so that they can play in the wars?


Law firms--yep lawyers.  Rank who you think the investors will trust to manage their money:


Lawyers, accountants, Schwab, a Vice President at Merrill Lynch, or some guy who doesn't know how to capitalize a sentence that is operating an "Indy" storefront next to a Chinese restaurant?



They will trust the best salesman.  This could come from any of these professions.



There is a lot to be said for that.


However, do you think that the accountant or lawyer has a built in credibility that can trump salesmanship?


I should also add banks to the list.  From where I sit the dismantling of Glass Stegal has created three professionals who have a stronger claim on a client's loyalty that trumps a traditional broker or advisor.


Accountants should be able to take all the business, but they're somewhat nerdish and not agressively pursuing the investment side--however their trade groups are really pushing it as a way to augment their income.


Bankers shold be major players, but they hire the Wall Street's rejects and ex tellers and until that changes they will never break out.


Lawyers are still an unknown.  The American Bar Association worries about arbitration and litigation being filed against their membership and is not endorsing the concept.  Nonetheless some agressive firms, and a lot of the sole practioners are joining forces with broker dealers that are being established to represent them.


As I said earlier, everybody in this business had better have a plan for how they're going to keep their customers from talking to the competition.  Perhaps you should become a CPA and transfer your license to HD Vest or First Global.


Who knows?


Don't have a college degree so you can't become a CPA or an attorney?


Bummer.

Jul 10, 2006 10:49 pm

old dino,


where you're sitting from ...... we call that the reading room in our house. Your advice smells exactly like that room too!

Jul 11, 2006 10:33 am
eddjones654:

old dino,


where you're sitting from ...... we call that the reading room in our house. Your advice smells exactly like that room too!



I wouldn't word it quite as sternly, but I have to agree.  Granted, there will be some clients that will have a specific credential in mind that they require their advisor to have, but for the most part, I doubt that will be anything outside of a CFP.  Even at that, I question how many clients will require the CFP of their advisor.  Unfortunately, this is what leaves the door open for shady characters to enter our business and sell unsuitable investments.  The only thing that will change this is a stricter licensing requirement from the NASD and SEC.  Something similar to the requirements for doctors and lawyers.  Something where you can't decide that you want to sell investments and less than 6 months later be licensed to sell and charge fees.  I think it would be very prudent to make the NASD exams similar to the bar exam.  Sure would weed out alot of folks in the business just because they can't find any other gig.

Jul 11, 2006 10:51 am
braves fan:

I wouldn't word it quite as sternly, but I have to agree.  Granted, there will be some clients that will have a specific credential in mind that they require their advisor to have, but for the most part, I doubt that will be anything outside of a CFP.  Even at that, I question how many clients will require the CFP of their advisor.  Unfortunately, this is what leaves the door open for shady characters to enter our business and sell unsuitable investments.  The only thing that will change this is a stricter licensing requirement from the NASD and SEC.  Something similar to the requirements for doctors and lawyers.  Something where you can't decide that you want to sell investments and less than 6 months later be licensed to sell and charge fees.  I think it would be very prudent to make the NASD exams similar to the bar exam.  Sure would weed out alot of folks in the business just because they can't find any other gig.



Sadly, it seems unlikely that Wall Street will raise bar regarding qualification--if anything it is being lowered as the insurance industry becomes more and more participatory in securities.


Prudential, in its various forms, is the largest licenser of NASD reps.  If you think they are going to sit by and allow the exams to become more difficult, or allow educational requirements to be implemented you just don't understand the NASD.


Now, what the NASD can do is be very accomodating to professions that by definition require college educations.  The lawyers and accountants.


You're misguided if you think that Mr. and Mrs. Jones with half a million or more in some sort of qualfied plan are not talking to an accountants or a lawyer about estate planning.


Do you think that accountant or lawyer has an inside track if he or she tells Mr. and Mrs. Jones, "Are you aware that we manage accounts in this firm?  We have a selection of fifty-two full time professional managers who will manage your funds with the same care they give to their huge pension plan customers.  May I give you some information about them?"


My point is that you had best have a plan for what to do if your business suddenly disappears.


I have said all along that retail brokering is not a profit center for a brokerage firm.  "Mother Merrill" would barely notice the loss in firm wide profits if their entire branch office network just closed up and went away.


You need to hear this stuff, many of you are young and have families who are depending on you--at least keep your ear to the ground and understand that the only consant in life is that things change.

Jul 11, 2006 11:21 am

[/quote]


Sadly, it seems unlikely that Wall Street will raise bar regarding qualification--if anything it is being lowered as the insurance industry becomes more and more participatory in securities.


Prudential, in its various forms, is the largest licenser of NASD reps.  If you think they are going to sit by and allow the exams to become more difficult, or allow educational requirements to be implemented you just don't understand the NASD.


Now, what the NASD can do is be very accomodating to professions that by definition require college educations.  The lawyers and accountants.


You're misguided if you think that Mr. and Mrs. Jones with half a million or more in some sort of qualfied plan are not talking to an accountants or a lawyer about estate planning.


Do you think that accountant or lawyer has an inside track if he or she tells Mr. and Mrs. Jones, "Are you aware that we manage accounts in this firm?  We have a selection of fifty-two full time professional managers who will manage your funds with the same care they give to their huge pension plan customers.  May I give you some information about them?"


My point is that you had best have a plan for what to do if your business suddenly disappears.


I have said all along that retail brokering is not a profit center for a brokerage firm.  "Mother Merrill" would barely notice the loss in firm wide profits if their entire branch office network just closed up and went away.


You need to hear this stuff, many of you are young and have families who are depending on you--at least keep your ear to the ground and understand that the only consant in life is that things change.


[/quote]


Scarey but true. And to top that off JB Hunt now requires 3 years of over the road experience before they'll hire you as a driver. Talk about timing! Some of us are facing a bleak future.


A side note: A friend recently applied for a sales position at a local car dealership. He was "eliminated from consideration" because he didn't have a college degree. The bar is getting higher everywhere. 

Jul 11, 2006 11:23 am
tjc45:

A side note: A friend recently applied for a sales position at a local car dealership. He was "eliminated from consideration" because he didn't have a college degree. The bar is getting higher everywhere. 



Actually what that does is portray the public schools as a joke.  Today's high school graduates are for all practical purposes unemployable in anything other than manual labor type stuff.


But they feel good about themselves and understand the joy of having two daddies.

Jul 11, 2006 11:53 am

[/quote]


...understand the joy of having two daddies.


[/quote]


That last comment added nothing productive and only stands to stir up trouble on what was a decent thread.  Please consider this before posting things like this in the future.