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Aug 19, 2009 8:42 pm

actually, it is 100% more.

but, besides that, I’m just asking these questions to get a feel for what different firms offer and to try to figure out my next move…not because I’m planning my budget for 2017.

Aug 19, 2009 8:48 pm

It may be 100% more, but it’s still very little.

Aug 19, 2009 8:55 pm
noggin:

[quote=Hey Kool-Aid]FYI noggin, the payout on a “B” share annuity at EDJ is 5% not 4.5% and you received 40% payout on it (or a minimum of 36% in the 5 states if you are a new broker)…not 35%…indy payouts are still higher than that but lets get the facts straight when making the comparison.

When I was there the payout on 100K and above for Hartford Leaders was 4.75% as I stated, that may have changed in the time since I have left and also at the time payouts for 100K or greater B share VA were reduced to 35%. Have they changed these policies?   If not, begin your apology.[/quote]   No apology necessary, there may be different products that pay differently but as usual you "happen" to use the product which, at Jones has the lowest payout.  Secondly, you are giving advice to a poster who is asking for current info, not from before you left!    Now...here is your quote noggin:   "When I was at Jones, VA's B share version paid about 4.75% of which I would get 35%. Now that I am independent that same VA B share actually pays 6.00% of which I get 90%".   No where in that quote does it say "Hartford Leader's B share pays...etc..etc... but Protective's B share pays more.....you made a general comment using antiquated info to let a poster know how bad the payout is at Jones, while at the present time, is just not true!   Again, I do understand that Indy payouts are better for the FA than wirehouse, Jones, etc...and we have seen all of the arguments for and against both, but you always have a way of turning it against EDJ....and the OP, or anyone interested in the same info should take your biased posts with a grain of salt!      
Aug 19, 2009 9:41 pm
Hey Kool-Aid:

[quote=noggin][quote=Hey Kool-Aid]FYI noggin, the payout on a “B” share annuity at EDJ is 5% not 4.5% and you received 40% payout on it (or a minimum of 36% in the 5 states if you are a new broker)…not 35%…indy payouts are still higher than that but lets get the facts straight when making the comparison.

When I was there the payout on 100K and above for Hartford Leaders was 4.75% as I stated, that may have changed in the time since I have left and also at the time payouts for 100K or greater B share VA were reduced to 35%. Have they changed these policies?   If not, begin your apology.[/quote]   No apology necessary, there may be different products that pay differently but as usual you "happen" to use the product which, at Jones has the lowest payout.  Secondly, you are giving advice to a poster who is asking for current info, not from before you left!    Now...here is your quote noggin:   "When I was at Jones, VA's B share version paid about 4.75% of which I would get 35%. Now that I am independent that same VA B share actually pays 6.00% of which I get 90%".   No where in that quote does it say "Hartford Leader's B share pays...etc..etc... but Protective's B share pays more.....you made a general comment using antiquated info to let a poster know how bad the payout is at Jones, while at the present time, is just not true!   Again, I do understand that Indy payouts are better for the FA than wirehouse, Jones, etc...and we have seen all of the arguments for and against both, but you always have a way of turning it against EDJ....and the OP, or anyone interested in the same info should take your biased posts with a grain of salt!      [/quote] When I was at Jones, I actually chose the product that was best for the client not what paid me the most. I assume that you run your business differently given your post.   If you think that going from 4.75% to 5.00% on payout has drastically improved the payout from bad to good then I probably will not convince you of much. The whole purpose was not the payout percentage but actually the dealer concession. It is important once again to look at the whole picture not just the payout percentage. If you want to accuse me of only writing a comment to slam Jones then you are mistaken as that is not my intent. I was merely using an example to illustrate a point. The overiding point is that compensation involves a considerable amount more than just payout percentage.   I am sure that you will find something in this answer that offends your sensibilities.    
Aug 19, 2009 9:46 pm
noggin:

[quote=Hey Kool-Aid][quote=noggin][quote=Hey Kool-Aid]FYI noggin, the payout on a “B” share annuity at EDJ is 5% not 4.5% and you received 40% payout on it (or a minimum of 36% in the 5 states if you are a new broker)…not 35%…indy payouts are still higher than that but lets get the facts straight when making the comparison.

When I was there the payout on 100K and above for Hartford Leaders was 4.75% as I stated, that may have changed in the time since I have left and also at the time payouts for 100K or greater B share VA were reduced to 35%. Have they changed these policies?   If not, begin your apology.[/quote]   No apology necessary, there may be different products that pay differently but as usual you "happen" to use the product which, at Jones has the lowest payout.  Secondly, you are giving advice to a poster who is asking for current info, not from before you left!    Now...here is your quote noggin:   "When I was at Jones, VA's B share version paid about 4.75% of which I would get 35%. Now that I am independent that same VA B share actually pays 6.00% of which I get 90%".   No where in that quote does it say "Hartford Leader's B share pays...etc..etc... but Protective's B share pays more.....you made a general comment using antiquated info to let a poster know how bad the payout is at Jones, while at the present time, is just not true!   Again, I do understand that Indy payouts are better for the FA than wirehouse, Jones, etc...and we have seen all of the arguments for and against both, but you always have a way of turning it against EDJ....and the OP, or anyone interested in the same info should take your biased posts with a grain of salt!      [/quote] When I was at Jones, I actually chose the product that was best for the client not what paid me the most. I assume that you run your business differently given your post.   If you think that going from 4.75% to 5.00% on payout has drastically improved the payout from bad to good then I probably will not convince you of much. The whole purpose was not the payout percentage but actually the dealer concession. It is important once again to look at the whole picture not just the payout percentage. If you want to accuse me of only writing a comment to slam Jones then you are mistaken as that is not my intent. I was merely using an example to illustrate a point. The overiding point is that compensation involves a considerable amount more than just payout percentage.   I am sure that you will find something in this answer that offends your sensibilities.    [/quote]   Call me naive, but does anyone even sell B-share annuities at Jones? And if they do, why would they?
Aug 19, 2009 10:04 pm
SometimesNowhere:

[quote=noggin][quote=Hey Kool-Aid][quote=noggin][quote=Hey Kool-Aid]FYI noggin, the payout on a “B” share annuity at EDJ is 5% not 4.5% and you received 40% payout on it (or a minimum of 36% in the 5 states if you are a new broker)…not 35%…indy payouts are still higher than that but lets get the facts straight when making the comparison.

When I was there the payout on 100K and above for Hartford Leaders was 4.75% as I stated, that may have changed in the time since I have left and also at the time payouts for 100K or greater B share VA were reduced to 35%. Have they changed these policies?   If not, begin your apology.[/quote]   No apology necessary, there may be different products that pay differently but as usual you "happen" to use the product which, at Jones has the lowest payout.  Secondly, you are giving advice to a poster who is asking for current info, not from before you left!    Now...here is your quote noggin:   "When I was at Jones, VA's B share version paid about 4.75% of which I would get 35%. Now that I am independent that same VA B share actually pays 6.00% of which I get 90%".   No where in that quote does it say "Hartford Leader's B share pays...etc..etc... but Protective's B share pays more.....you made a general comment using antiquated info to let a poster know how bad the payout is at Jones, while at the present time, is just not true!   Again, I do understand that Indy payouts are better for the FA than wirehouse, Jones, etc...and we have seen all of the arguments for and against both, but you always have a way of turning it against EDJ....and the OP, or anyone interested in the same info should take your biased posts with a grain of salt!      [/quote] When I was at Jones, I actually chose the product that was best for the client not what paid me the most. I assume that you run your business differently given your post.   If you think that going from 4.75% to 5.00% on payout has drastically improved the payout from bad to good then I probably will not convince you of much. The whole purpose was not the payout percentage but actually the dealer concession. It is important once again to look at the whole picture not just the payout percentage. If you want to accuse me of only writing a comment to slam Jones then you are mistaken as that is not my intent. I was merely using an example to illustrate a point. The overiding point is that compensation involves a considerable amount more than just payout percentage.   I am sure that you will find something in this answer that offends your sensibilities.    [/quote]   Call me naive, but does anyone even sell B-share annuities at Jones? And if they do, why would they?[/quote]   The B share when purchasing less than $250k to a client that absolutely doesn't need to access the money is a better product for the client.    Noggin:  wtf are you talking about, the whole discussion was started around the better payout at your current Firm, as opposed to what you got at Jones...then I comment on that and you acuse me of only worrying about payout?????  Makes no sense.  And an argument can be made to compare Hartford, whose writedowns were substantial and stock price was getting slammed...clients were concerned about using them, compared to a company like Protective that was barely in the news and has less than .2% of sub-prime mortgage exposure and refused any TARP money....yeah...that 25 bps that you saved them really was best for them!
Aug 19, 2009 11:29 pm
chief123:

EDJ rebates 12b-1s back to customer. Also you can discount the fee at EDJ up to a certain point before it decreases your payout.

Jones platform is pretty decent as far as reps getting paid…40% on 1.25% on every dollar that goes into the program. There biggest problem are the choices and lack of discretion, but that fits the firm profile… Plus now people can do advisory and not take the haircut on C shares.

The new thing at jones that I have been hearing about is putting clients in A Shares(over 100K break point) for 2-3 years, then flipping over to advisory.

chief, Wouldn't it be impossible for it to "be a new thing" to flip clients after 2-3 years when the program itself is only 13 months old (in my Region anyway). I get your point that some may try in the future but pigs may fly in the future too.  How about we wait until it is actually mathematically possible for this to happen then we can bash away.  While you wait you can just bash the act of selling an A share then later bash the "flip".  2 for the price of 1.
Aug 20, 2009 12:17 am

Although I haven’t heard the “flipping” thing, I have heard of a lot of advisors moving out of A shares into Advisory. Because of the way they credit back commissions, your year-over-year fees/commissions generally can’t exceed the 1.35 in Advisory Solutions. For example, you put someone in A shares this year at 3.5%, then flip them next year, they will credit the client back for the difference. So yes, it may give you the upfront pop, but at the price of not having the 1.35 for a year or two (all depends on how long held, etc.). Jones is in the process of addressing the “newbie goals” issue, which prevents newer FA’s from going into Advisory. It’s not rolled out yet, but I got confirmation from Lisa Pelican that it is being worked on. And once the program has been around for a few years, and people have enough in Advisory business, there will no longer be a need to “front load” like you suggest.

However, I have been watching the numbers. The performance has been better than a traditional Jones A-share portfolio, so I think the program is a very good buy-and-hold alternative to A shares. I don’t like the rigidness of it, but that’s another hurdle.

Aug 20, 2009 12:40 am

If the client is going to probably use the income rider B-shares are the only way to go.  In my opinion. I’d sell C if they let me.

b24 … I’m new and have sold AS with no issues?  Are you talking about the trade off between eating and starving? 

Aug 20, 2009 1:01 am

I've heard they will have a "phantom" account that shows the first year in fees up front which will go towards the FA's expectations...the payout will remain monthly in arrears.  Needs to be done as there is a huge conflict of interest for Seg N,1,2 and even some seg 3s. 

Aug 20, 2009 2:06 am

[quote=B24]…and ignore LP as a form of compensation - it’s an investment.  You pay for it.    [/quote]

Good Point! Not only do they pay for it; but they also work for it! …suckers!

Aug 20, 2009 1:47 pm
voltmoie:

If the client is going to probably use the income rider B-shares are the only way to go.  In my opinion. I’d sell C if they let me.

b24 … I’m new and have sold AS with no issues?  Are you talking about the trade off between eating and starving? 

  Not really - the payouts won't change, but they are looking at crediting you up front for assets put into AS, but only for your production screen purposes (goals).  Look at it this way...my monthly minimum is about 13,000 gross.  If I get someone that brings in 500K to me, and I want to put them in AS, that is exactly ZERO in production for me.  If I put them into A shares, that would be more like 10-15K.  If I am struggling and having a bad few months, which do you think I would choose (regardless of my personal income needs)?