One in a million chance to make the jump?

or Register to post new content in the forum

33 RepliesJump to last post

 

Comments

  • Allowed HTML tags: <em> <strong> <blockquote> <br> <p>

Plain text

  • No HTML tags allowed.
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.
Mar 23, 2007 12:43 am

Do you think it is possible to make the jump from retail broker into the Investment Banking ANALYST program at Goldman or MS?


 <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />


Current Path:


Maintain sufficient production in a retail position with a major wire while attending a top rated STATE SCHOOL, not Ivy League, MBA program.



These two firms seek potential candidates from top rated schools.  Hypothetically speaking, do you think 4 years in retail brokerage and a mediocre MBA could compete with new grads Yale, Brown, etc, in the eyes of Goldman and MS? 



Is this realistic?   


Honestly-rip me to shreds people… 
Mar 23, 2007 8:06 am

Dirty, unfortunately, your track record says "average".   People with your credentials are a dime a dozen.  Is there something about you that will make you stand out?

Mar 23, 2007 2:35 pm

Mediocre MBA no...if it truly was a TOP rated PUBLIC school, ie U of Michigan or maybe U of Texas or North Carolina, you MAY get an oustide shot.  But likely, no...anon is right, you'd have to have a great story to tell.  Surviving as a broker and getting an MBA is a nice accomplishment to throw in though.

Mar 23, 2007 9:36 pm

forget the MBA and sign up for the CFA. Much more clout.

Mar 23, 2007 11:47 pm
Pants:

forget the MBA and sign up for the CFA. Much more clout.





Investment analysts are either CFA's or MBA's from top business schools.



Selling securities says nothing about your abilities to analyse them,
and write up a good research report on short notice. Being an analyst
these days is a thankless job.

Mar 24, 2007 1:06 am

Again, I wish people would not give advice if they have no clue what they are talking about.


<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 


The CFA exam has nothing to do with investment banking, nor does analyzing price movement and overall volatility of individual equity securities. 



The job of an investment banking analyst is to spend long hours researching individual companies, examine financial statements, putting together financial models, and help forecast M&A strategies.



The job of an investment banker is to interact with clients, implement the strategies, and direct the analysts. The banker needs to be very charismatic while being extremely analytical at the same time. 



When you break it down to the bare bone a broker need only be charismatic where a banker needs charisma and strong analytical ability.     


  


Anonymous:


 


Is there something about me that makes me different? 


 


Yes, but am I special enough to get into the GS or MS IBD division-It would be a long shot. 


 


If I can manage to graduate from a decent MBA program I think I could at least get an interview with one of the two firms.  At that point, if I could demonstrate sufficient knowledge of the position itself and the firm coupled with the progress I have made since I graduated from undergrad I think I would be at a 30% chance.  


 


Granted this is at least three to four years away.  I still need to worm my way into a good MBA program.  Having X amount of AUM, awesome GMAT scores, and about 5 letters of recommendation will hopefully be enough to convince the admissions department for entrance into a part time program. 


 


I see this as street brawler vs. prized fighter:   


 


Prized fighter:


 


Ivy League graduate 23-26 years old.  The majority have no real life hands on experience hitting deadlines, dealing with clients, and competing in the real world.  Intelligent but inexperienced.     


 


Street Brawler:


 


Individual with piss poor undergraduate grades (2.7) who was kicked around the first two years of employment.  At age 26 became a broker, polished his skills: relationship development; task management; and overall professional competency.  At 28 went to grad school refined then sharpened his analytical thought process.


 


This is all predicated on the fact I can make it as a broker.  But that is what this forum is for- hypothetical situations.   



Brutal honesty people!!

Mar 24, 2007 4:20 am

One thing I'd recommend is to go into the sales and trading division of a large bulge bracket firm if that's what you're after. Two year analyst program participants don't analyze anything except the coffee machine and posterior of the associates whose behind they happen to be kissing at the moment. Usually two years between undergrad and MBA, not after. A couple years ago Merrill's incoming analysts were starting in the range of 60/65k a year, which is nothing to sneeze at for someone getting out of college, but probably not the best you can do. As a means to get into being an associate, there are probably better ways. Why not try the regionals as well, casting a wider net? Piper Jaffray, for example, or somewhere else more suited to M&A if that's what you're after. Why do you not want to be a broker anymore?

Mar 24, 2007 11:34 am

Why not join an organization like Mensa. Not only would it demonstrate that you are of superior intelligence but it may also introduce you to some analysts who could get you on the inside track. The fact you are a successful broker proves that you are charismatic. It sounds like you just need to meet some people on the inside. Best of luck to you!

Mar 24, 2007 1:55 pm
DirtyDeltaBro:

<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />The CFA exam has nothing to do with investment banking, nor does analyzing price movement and overall volatility of individual equity securities. 



The job of an investment banking analyst is to spend long hours researching individual companies, examine financial statements, putting together financial models, and help forecast M&A strategies.



The job of an investment banker is to interact with clients, implement the strategies, and direct the analysts. The banker needs to be very charismatic while being extremely analytical at the same time. 




I disagree regarding the CFA curriculum - its pretty broad and touches extensively upon issues related to fianacial statement alalysis and M&A, but I agree that its not the best material for an investment banker per se.


Whether a certain school is a good potential entry point for I banking would probably have something to do with whether certain investment banks participate in the recruitment process at that school. This information could easily be determined from the admissions office.


I suspect that investment banking is no longer going to be as competitive as it was in the past. The best people from the top business schools or looking to transfer from industry generally seem to want to go work in venture capital or private equity these days. I have known several people (at least from my firm this is the case), who have moved out of banking on the belief that there really weren't going to be the amazing paychecks in the future that there were in the past. I suspect they are right.


If you are really passionate about being an investment banker, have you considered looking into working for a less illustrious bank at first? They would be more likely to accept someone with less prestigious credentials, but some excellent industry experience. There is also some room to move around at these places...

Mar 25, 2007 3:43 pm

I am also curious as to whether a successful broker can make the
transition to banking.  As for an analyst, you just have to prove
that you can work really hard, learn on the go and do whatever it takes
to succeed.  In terms of getting a job with GS or MS, I would have
to say no.  I know a guy from MS who was a broker and is ranked #1
in revenue in his class.  He went to a top 20 school and has had
no luck trying to get into even a boutique firm. 



I just think there is a huge stigma associated with being a broker and
unless you do something absolutely amazing, it is going be hard to move
over to the other side of the shop.



I also dont think an MBA means anything for an analyst unless it is
from a great school (great state schools are Virginia, Michigan, UNC).

Mar 25, 2007 7:34 pm

I'd agree with the MBA comment, but add Hass at Berkeley. The market is

flooded with MBAs. There are more MBA programs and larger class sizes

than other professional degrees and if it isn't from a top 20, one needs to

consider the worth of attending at all. I went to grad school in another field

with a similar situation. Once a field becomes crowded, just having the

credential isn't enough. Read The Accidental Investment Banker by Knee,

who was at GS and Morgan during the dot com boom. I've worked with tons

of people with an MBA who have had the same position I have at my current

and former firms, even though my graduate work is in a field as unrelated as

possible.

Mar 25, 2007 8:42 pm


I just think there is a huge stigma associated with being a broker and
unless you do something absolutely amazing, it is going be hard to move
over to the other side of the shop.

Now we are getting to the real heart of the situation!

There is definitely a stereotype that brokers are only
“brokers”.  Its going to take at least 4
years to build a book and earn my MBA. 
Even after that I am not sure if Goldman or Morgan would ever consider
me.

Whats their rational? 
Is this path really that mediocre- 3-4 yeas as a broker + part time MBA=
banker?  I don’t see why these two firms
would look down on this situation.  Can
someone elaborate on this a little more? 
 

If I made it to one of these firms by age 34 I would still
have 25 years in me as a banker.

And there is definitely more to the story about the guy who
worked for Morgan on the retail side, graduated from a top 20 schools, and
could not get a banking interview. 

Morgan has an internal job form where anyone can post for
almost any position.  I find it hard to
believe that someone who 1st in his class after a few years could not post out
for a much better position.  Especially with
his background!!   Please tell me more…

DirtyDelta 

       

 

Mar 25, 2007 8:46 pm

Thanks for the good everyone.  Contrary to popular belief, you can actually get good information
from qualified people on this forum.

Mar 25, 2007 10:07 pm

Virginia and UNC top school?



Warton and Ivy...



Goldman wants top young talent so they can mold them into Goldman soldiers.



What is the average pay at Goldman... Is life as a broker that bad? As in one would want to go to Goldman and work 15 hour days at the bottom of the company.

Mar 26, 2007 12:25 am

I dont even know what the previous post means.  Warton?  UVA
ranked top 15 b-school in the country and #2 undergrad b school by
business week. 



Anyway, there is a huge stigma associated with being a broker. 
Most of all is that the bankers on the other side dont really know what
it is you actually do and dont really care unless you sourced them a
deal from one of your clients.  If you get to 35 you have
absolutely no chance in becoming a banker.  You will have no
experience and kids who are 13 years you minor will be running circles
around you. 



For a I-Bank analyst you have to be below 25 and will work 15 hours a
day.  I would say the street average is 65 (Base) + 10 (Sign) + 25
and up(year end). 



If you are really that good as a broker, why wouldnt you join an MS,
GS, CS, Lehman PWM group and run a billion and make a couple million a
year.  When you get to the top of these Banking teams, all the MDs
are just salesman like yourself.  They are brokers except they
have bigger teams, different products and charge higher fees.  The
banking world is just as entrepeneurial as this job.  They have to
call, add value and then sell them something. 



This is where you could be good.  if you can prove that you can
sell anything and are smooth and slick on an interview, then you are
adding value as someone who will be able to close deals.  It
doesnt matter what your pushing whether it is a merger or a mutual
fund, it matters that you can do it for anything to anyone. 

Apr 9, 2007 7:00 pm

From what my experience tells me, you are probably out of luck.  Most I-Banking jobs come through on-campus recruiting.  Most part-time MBA programs do not allow you access to the recruiting channels, and therefore, you typically miss out on any shot to get an I-Banking interview. 


Not impossible, just extremely, extremely difficult.

Apr 9, 2007 7:46 pm

BTW, it's Wharton.

Apr 10, 2007 2:21 pm

Who cares about I-banking anyway?


You can make $500k after 10 years as a broker and spend half of your year in Hawaii.


Of course, you have to be good.  But at least you aren't spending hours each day on the train.

Apr 10, 2007 3:08 pm

Dirty,


I will tell you how i do, be myself and work hard and keep God first and i have not had a problem so far in my career.  It is always a plus to have a degree from a top school behind you.  But if you work hard and know how to talk to people you can do what ever you want to.  Now saying this it might not come to you as easy you have to sell yourself and your skills and i promise you that you will get a chance and when you get the chance you have to make it work becaue somebody behind you is looking for a break.


CMB

Apr 10, 2007 3:18 pm
CashMoneyBrothe:

Dirty,


I will tell you how i do, be myself and work hard and keep God first and i have not had a problem so far in my career.  It is always a plus to have a degree from a top school behind you.  But if you work hard and know how to talk to people you can do what ever you want to.  Now saying this it might not come to you as easy you have to sell yourself and your skills and i promise you that you will get a chance and when you get the chance you have to make it work becaue somebody behind you is looking for a break.


CMB



I think I need a decoder to translate this.