New Training Pay at EDJ

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Nov 30, 2009 2:35 pm

I've been meaning to post this for a few weeks and if for some stupid reason I already started this thread, forgive me.

 
Do you guys know what EDJ is paying it's new hires now?  This is a joke, I know we're under a wage freeze but this is CRAZY.
 
I spoke with a new hire the other day, his hourly wage is about .20 above MINIMUM WAGE until he goes full commission.
 
I called St Louis and they confirmed this.
 
wow. 
Nov 30, 2009 4:17 pm
UNDERMINDED:

I've been meaning to post this for a few weeks and if for some stupid reason I already started this thread, forgive me.

 
Do you guys know what EDJ is paying it's new hires now?  This is a joke, I know we're under a wage freeze but this is CRAZY.
 
I spoke with a new hire the other day, his hourly wage is about .20 above MINIMUM WAGE until he goes full commission.
 
I called St Louis and they confirmed this.
 
wow. 

That's pretty funny. I had a visiting vet once that before he joined Jones managed a MacDonald's. Guess he would be taking a demotion if he was joining now
 
Seriously, it will probably make people re-think getting into the business and using Jones as the HR department for the rest of the industry.
Nov 30, 2009 4:45 pm

ok - here is a silly question. When doing your minimum wage calculation are you taking it at 40 hours or at 60+ that a trainee/newbie might need to do in order to be successful?

 
Heck, how about we forget the math and you just tell us the new trainee wage? :)
Nov 30, 2009 6:39 pm

minimum wage if you work 60 hours a week is: $26,390
if they could legally pay you less, they would.

Nov 30, 2009 11:35 pm

The trainee wage was based on previous employment wages and demographics. It is hourly until Eval/Grad (so newbs don't be afraid to book 60+ hours they will pay you for it). After Eval/Grad it is salary based on 40 hrs a week.

 


This was based on agreements made 2nd half of 2008 and may have changed. A Pharma sales guy called to negotiate and the person at HO said he maxed the pay plan out. I don't remember what it was but I think around 12-13 bucks an hour.
Dec 1, 2009 8:48 am

didn't you jive turkeys all fail out of jones?  except for under that is.  you're probably the reason they made the change.  free loading failures.

Dec 1, 2009 9:49 am

Here's the deal.  When I came through my hourly was something like $9.50/hr.  The new guy is getting $7.40/hr.  We made roughly the same amount of $$ before Jones.


When your studying for the 7 they only schedule you for 45 hours/week.  You can squeeze a couple hours of overtime in there but they're really cracking down on that stuff right now so the good ole days of logging 60 hours per week for study time is a thing of the past.  Now AFTER all of your exams and KYC they do switch you to 60 hours per week, but the hourly drops to minimum wage, which is what? Like $7.15-7.25 idk.
 
When I called HQ they also told me that negotiating the hourly wage up is a very rare thing these days.  It was very common a year or two ago but during this wage freeze they have much less wiggle room.
 
I know that training was never meant to pay the big bucks, but it makes me wonder how they will attract great candidates who are making big money in other industries with $7.45/hr.
Dec 1, 2009 10:04 am

Color me surprised. This is why we have a reputation for putting out second rate brokers. I frequently ask the people in my region when we do crap like this "would MSSB/RJ/SN" be doing this"? The answer is inevitably a resounding 'no'.

 
I am not saying that I want that culture entirely. I am saying that we continue to do things that make it difficult to take us seriously. I have a friend that would be an outstanding broker, but I can't really refer him to EDJ because there is no way he could expect to pay his mortgage here.
Dec 1, 2009 10:05 am

Supply & Demand issue my friend


15% unemployment
 
Plenty of able  bodies to fill the chairs at cheap prices
Dec 1, 2009 10:11 am
hotair1:

Supply & Demand issue my friend


15% unemployment
 
Plenty of able  bodies to fill the chairs at cheap prices
 
That's a very good point.
 
Just don't ever forget:
You get what you pay for.
Dec 1, 2009 11:37 am

Series 7 to E/G is a relatively short time frame to have to worry about paying your bills.  If you can't make it during that time frame with the low salary Jones is going to pay you to study, then maybe you should think about creating an emergency fund before you take the leap to Jones.  No matter where a newbie to the industry goes, if he had a $100K a year job before, he's going to take a paycut to get into the business. 



How much do you think that Jones should be paying those folks? 
Dec 1, 2009 11:47 am
Spaceman Spiff:

Series 7 to E/G is a relatively short time frame to have to worry about paying your bills.  If you can't make it during that time frame with the low salary Jones is going to pay you to study, then maybe you should think about creating an emergency fund before you take the leap to Jones.  No matter where a newbie to the industry goes, if he had a $100K a year job before, he's going to take a paycut to get into the business. 



How much do you think that Jones should be paying those folks? 
 
I don't think that they need to pay them an equal salary to what they made previously, but a shade over minimum wage is ridiculous.
 
I think that Jones asks for a lot of sacrifice from a new person, and sometimes the reward is not worth the risk for the individual. If you were to set up the proposition in an honest way to a reasonable, professional person, most would look at the "opportunity" that we offer and scoff.
 
It is disingenuous to say that we are trying to attract "top talent" like that.
Dec 1, 2009 11:50 am
Spaceman Spiff:

How much do you think that Jones should be paying those folks? 
 
Enough so you can build a business the right way and not force advisors to make decisions more about them than their clients.  Is 23-28k over one year enough to do that?
Dec 1, 2009 11:58 am

I believe that the quality of hires would improve at the salary level of 40-60K for the first year. The Gp's would never go along with it and thus it will never happen. If you did that type of salary and enabled the FA to build a book without being compelled to make dollars from it immediately, the firm, client and FA would all benefit.

Dec 1, 2009 12:00 pm

The problem in this industry (and it's not just Jones) is that they present it like a job with a paycheck.  They SHOULD be presenting it like a new business.  Your lack of income is essentially your "investment".  That's how I looked at it.  New FA's have to understand that they are basically the equivalent of some company's pension liability.  A paycheck with no inward value associated with it.  Most firm's cannot afford to pay newbies huge money, because they hire so many.  If they would turn the model upside down and re-invent it somehow (I don't have the answer), they could keep far more people.

 
Let's also remember, hiring a 25-year old is different than hiring a 45 year old.  That 45 year-old might have had a $115K job.  The 25 year-old may have been making $35K.  And I think the answer lies somewhere in between, and possibly customizing the compensation approach.  For example, pay the 25 year-old 25K, and the 45 year old 75K.  But find a way to make them "make it".  The ultimate problem is too many newbies.  Part of it is the low barriers to entry in our field.  And part of it is taht not everyone is made for this business, period, end of story.  You could pay them 100K a year and they still fail.  What's the right answer?  Maybe paying higher recruiting wage but increasing the standards.  Maybe they should only hire people with definable talent.  Maybe they go after people with obvious networks (i.e. lawyers, CPA's, insurance agents, bank brokers, etc.).  I don't tknow the answer.  But they could probably hire a lot fewer people, pay them more, reduce the size of the recruiting/training departments, and have better talent that makes it, and avoid the FA revolving doors.
Dec 1, 2009 12:03 pm

Seems like you might be onto something noggin. I would love to make the leap and join Jones specifically but I am currently making too much to make that move. At 40-60 it would be a significant cut (75%) but I could make it work over the first year as I build a business. I think most successful professionals who are making in the 6 figures, would have to have something like that to even consider this.

Dec 1, 2009 12:27 pm
B24:

The problem in this industry (and it's not just Jones) is that they present it like a job with a paycheck.  They SHOULD be presenting it like a new business.  Your lack of income is essentially your "investment".  That's how I looked at it.  New FA's have to understand that they are basically the equivalent of some company's pension liability.  A paycheck with no inward value associated with it.  Most firm's cannot afford to pay newbies huge money, because they hire so many.  If they would turn the model upside down and re-invent it somehow (I don't have the answer), they could keep far more people.

 
 
I think you are exactly right. The problem is Jones doesn't (at least didn't with me or anyone else I know).
Dec 1, 2009 12:33 pm

I was offered $40,000 by a different firm before I decided on Jones.

Dec 1, 2009 12:46 pm
iceco1d:

ML will pay them up to $125K, I believe.

 
Didn't they go out of business or something????? 
Dec 1, 2009 1:34 pm
noggin:

I believe that the quality of hires would improve at the salary level of 40-60K for the first year. The Gp's would never go along with it and thus it will never happen. If you did that type of salary and enabled the FA to build a book without being compelled to make dollars from it immediately, the firm, client and FA would all benefit.

 
Agreed.  But they would need to make a firm committment to every FA making it.  Otherwise you sink a sh*tload into each FA.  But you're right...it would never work.  The more likely scenario is larger Goodknights, as this is ultimately how the game should be played (Jones' version of joining a team).  At most big indy firms/RIA's/big wirehouse teams, you have a few "rainmakers" and then many people that service them.  Not everyone is built to be a rainmaker, but many can become very good advisors.  Jones hires advisors, not rainmakers.
 
Ever notice at Jones how there are all kinds of successful FA's in areas where there is a long-time rainmaker?  It's called Goodknights.  When someone hands you a 25-30mm book, if you have your head on straight, you can't help but be successful.
The Vet gets a good incentive (increased bonuses, more LP, often more production), the GK newbie gets a book and "makes it", Jones gets off cheaply, and the clients are now being serviced.