NEW Merrill POA
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A, goodluck ml seems like a good way to go!
QUOTE=joedabrkr] [quote=CCrider] Yes, I know plenty of independents that make one hell of a living. I'm sure lots post on the board. But overall, ML FAs make the dough. [/quote]If "making dough" was all that mattered to me, I might give more weight to your statement.
[/quote] how noble your sig tells a different story you probably have $ shaped i-balls, too
I got an offer yesterday
The branch manager is going to allow me to choose between a lower base salary of about 50k or a higher one of 60k. Of course, the higher base salary requires more production. I am pretty impressed with ML based on what I have read here and what my experience has been. I feel that they are going to provide great training.Congrats on the offer
Akkula, What is your age/education/work history.
How often does ML hire recent college grads with a liberal arts degree who look like they are 19? Is it just retarded to jump into this business if you could pass for a senior in high school?
Late 20s/Masters Degree/4 years of somewhat related experience
I am not sure how often ML would hire someone just out of school--I don't think it is very often. I think there are a lot of other companies that make it a habit to hire recent college grads for these types of jobs but I am not convinced that they are really interested in having those people stick around very long. Just my opinion. I am not sure I would take this kind of job right out of college anyhow. I really think it is important to build some kind of foundation of knowledge in a non-sales role. I know I considered this type of job out of school and I think I made the right decision not to pursue it before I was ready. Hopefully I am ready now, but I do feel a lot more confident in my ability than I did right out of college.I really think it is important to build some kind of foundation of knowledge in a non-sales role.
Akkula, there you go again... trying to give advice when you should be asking for it. Those of us who have been around would tell Fisher23 the exact opposite. Knowledge picked up in a non-sales role will do very little to help you succeed. If you are a recent college grad and you want to work for ML, go get a sales job. Learn to sell!I see my fan club has arrived.
Man, I have a lot of groupies that follow every post I make. Not directed to megamonet.After 1 year, they want you to have about 6.7 million in assets under management at the under 50k level. At the next level, they want about 8.9 million. By year 3 it is about 30 and 42 million respectively.Can you tell us more about the hurdles? or are they the same… Thanks
I’m currently in Merrill’s POA program and I’m on track to graduate after 18-months.<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
The old program was difficult. I work in what you could call a flagship office. We have 30+ POAs (now PDMPs) at any given time. Being that I’ve passed my 12-month hurdle, I’ve seen a lot of trainees come and trainees go.
In my opinion, the new program is much more difficult than the old program. I believe that the POA fail-out rate was near 80%. I would speculate that if the same hiring practices are in place, the new fail-out rate would be near 95%.
There are three salary bands. Each of those salary bands has their own hurdles tied to PCs, Net New Annuitized (NNA) business, AND Net New Households above $250M (NNHH). The biggest difference is that you must hit all three hurdles.
In my opinion, the PCs hurdle will be the most challenging. To give an example, if you are in the $75M+ salary band, you must produce $260M PCs between months 24 and 36 ($190M in the $50M-75M and $135M in the <$50M). If your annuitized book has a velocity of 1% (which is high), you must have an average of $26MM of annuitized assets to cover these PCs. Keep in mind, that I said “average” and not $26MM by EoY. There is a BIG difference. To be fair, I only mentioned the PCs generated from the annuitized portion of the book. Your transactional PCs certainly count towards this PC hurdle. Regardless, most of the past “successful” POA graduates were no where near this PC hurdle by the end of their LOS 3. The good news is, if you only meet these hurdles, you are receiving a pre-bonus income of $117M because your payout is higher than your salary.
There is another major catch. I’ve been told that inherited assets do not count towards any of these hurdles. This is a BIG deal because almost all of the current POAers have survived by distributions from FAs that have left ML or gifts/splits from senior FAs looking to trim the bottom end of their book. While I’m confident that what I heard is true for NNA and NNHH, I’m not so confident that it is true with the PCs hurdle.
I don’t think that the new program is bad. I think that it is better structured to attract and retain productive talent. With that said, being that 95+% of my PCs are generated from annuitized business, my PCs would have failed me out of this new program. The old POA program mostly emphasized annuitized PCs and it did not put enough emphasis on transactional PCs. Most people graduating POA were subject to very painful income reductions once they were off of salary. The new program’s hurdles generate payout exceeding salary after month 24.
My hope is that Merrill Lynch will be more selective in its hiring process and that the new program will more quickly weed out the people who have no business being in the training program. While I’ve seen a lot of “good” people fail out, I’ve seen many more that should have never been given a shot.
--WM
Good info, WM.
However, by raising the performance standards, on a business with high turnover already, ML appears to be adopting the business/hiring model of some of these insurance companies who encourage new hires to sign-up family/friends. Then, when they can't make it, fire'em but keep the family/friends accounts. Just sayin'...[quote=doberman]
Good info, WM.
However, by raising the performance standards, on a business with high turnover already, ML appears to be adopting the business/hiring model of some of these insurance companies who encourage new hires to sign-up family/friends. Then, when they can't make it, fire'em but keep the family/friends accounts. Just sayin'... [/quote] I can only speak for my complex. The new hires that have come in recently are either licensed and came from a competitor or came from within the industry and have some experience selling, but only insurance products. I do not see anything similar to an Ameriprise or Prudential approach of chasing mostly family and friends. I do, however, see them saying we are looking for people with some industry-related experience, are already licensed, but are still new enough that we want to train them our way. Of the ten or so new hires I am only impressed by one of them. The rest are either like deer in the headlights and just seem overwhelmed or think they are the best because they are licensed, spent a year or two at Edward Jones and now made it past the tough part of being hired by ML. One of those big egos already threw in the towel. I expect half of these new ones to be gone six months into production. I'm just looking forward to the day when I can relax. Any idea when that is?[quote=bondo][quote=doberman]
Good info, WM.
However, by raising the performance standards, on a business with high turnover already, ML appears to be adopting the business/hiring model of some of these insurance companies who encourage new hires to sign-up family/friends. Then, when they can't make it, fire'em but keep the family/friends accounts. Just sayin'... [/quote] I can only speak for my complex. The new hires that have come in recently are either licensed and came from a competitor or came from within the industry and have some experience selling, but only insurance products. I do not see anything similar to an Ameriprise or Prudential approach of chasing mostly family and friends. I do, however, see them saying we are looking for people with some industry-related experience, are already licensed, but are still new enough that we want to train them our way.[/quote] Bondo, I also got the same impression. When they hired me, they never had me put together a list of every person I know or some of that other natural market BS that a lot of other companies try to get you to do. My 20 something year old friends aren't going to get me the type of assets I need to succeed at ML. I also get the impression that they are more interested in the fact that you may have the tools to succeed, like licenses, sales experience, and/or some industry experience. I would figure that finding an established, successful financial sales person to fill these jobs would not be practical. I would be surprised if these types of heavy hitters would be moving between firms very often as new hires since they can pretty much call their shots at their own firms. Why would these types move, especially when they could just go indy? Companies need to find and develop talent. I wouldn't suspect that every trainee companies like ML get would have an MBA, 15 years of experience, a CFP, 100 million in AUM. They are really looking for a track record of success and achievement in your previous endeavors.[quote=doberman]
However, by raising the performance standards, on a business with high turnover already, ML appears to be adopting the business/hiring model of some of these insurance companies who encourage new hires to sign-up family/friends. Then, when they can't make it, fire'em but keep the family/friends accounts. [/quote]If I were looking in from the outside I might make a similar comment or think the same way. I can't speak for all branches but at my branch, we have the anti friends and family approach. As POAers we are specifically told that our friends and family DON'T count towards our hurdles. While I know that this is not enforced, it is told to us. The reasoning is simple. If you can't make the hurdles without friends and family, then chances are that you can't make it in the business.
--WM
[quote=Akkula]
Very, very high up people in ML have told me multiple times that it is much cheaper to recruit from other firms than to train newbies. I think that they are telling the truth. It is common knowledge that ML trains much of Wall Street. I don’t know why they do this. The line that I’ve been told by higher ups is that they feel it’s their way of giving back. I don’t really buy that. There must be some other reason. This is not an altruistic business.
I don’t think that they put much weight into the licenses. Anyone can pass those. I think that they are more concerned with your network and your ability to sell. The first mistake that new trainees make is that they spend too much time worrying about passing the 7, 66 and insurance exams. (I won’t lie, did the same thing) I tell them all that they should be spending at least 1/2 of their time planting seeds that they can harvest once they are in production. None of them follow this advice. Most of them fail.
I would rather see ML have a training program similar to AllianceBernstein or some of the big Investment Banks. In my office I have seen clergymen, department of corrections officers, antiques dealers, actors, interior designers, mortgage brokers, realtors, software engineers, jazz musicians, flooring salesmen, tech workers and many other various past professions. I think I understand their reasons for doing so. There is no clear cut formula to what past experience would make you successful. What I don’t see much of are people who have a clue about financial markets and managing money. With that said, I don’t think that knowledge of financial markets or understanding to how to manage money money are that directly related to a person’s success. I have an MBA from a top university, I have my CRPC and CFP, I’ve owned and ran my own business and I have sales experience. Regardless of those facts, I’m still working hard and struggling to make it.
I love my job but I wouldn’t wish starting out in the profession on my worst enemy.
–WM
Hey WM and Bondo (and anyone else at ML), any suggestions you would give me to get a fast start out of the gate? What would you do if you were a new trainee knowing what you know today?
Start by reading the 500 Day War post on this forum and take the advice to heart. Next, spend only as much time as you need to pass the tests. The best score is the one just above passing. Everything else is inefficient use of your time. While you are officially studying, start building up your network. Whether it is creating lists of people to contact, having letters written and ready to send out once you are live, joining groups, etc, do some ground work so you do not spend your first week getting calls lists or writing letters you could have done before you were live. Spend time talking to the senior advisors. Find out who is a good resource and who you need to stay away from. Just go talk to them when the market is closed. They will not come to you. Those who have been at ML for years are traditionally the greatest resource in the office. This should also help you in determining who is the right mentor for you. Spend some time talking to the senior CAs. They have seen what it takes for the new guys to survive as they often sit next to them. Also, if you do not have a CA on your side you are done. Talk to wholesalers, but do it only to educate yourself and find out which ones know their stuff and will support you. Don't chase free lunches as you do not have the time. Find out which ones used to be in POA as they most likely will support a new advisor. Don't worry about others, just focus on what you are doing. Make sure you are doing the things that will make you succeed. Absolutely never spend 30 minutes wandering around telling everybody about a great call you had. It is a waste of everyone's time and energy, especially since you have never even sat down with the person. Take advantage of all the training Mother Merrill offers. However, do not get bogged down in the minutia (sp?). Learn it during night hours so you can spent the day hours 7am-9pm prospecting. Remember that senior advisors in the office are watching, regardless of what you are thinking. Sometimes they may be thinking of partnering up with a younger advisor who will do the prospecting. Be the one that stands above the other POAs by doing the right things that lead to success. Don't be the guy who everyone wonders how he managed to get hired in the first place. Stay strong mentally. So many people have left in my time and most of it has been to them not believing in themselves. IF you do not believe in yourself being there it is not going to come through to prospects. Remember, you have an extraordinary opportunity in front of you. Take advantage of it, work as hard as possible, do the right things, get some breaks, and a few years later you will be amazed at where you are. Good luck! It is not easy, but I do not regret the decision ever.Hey WM and Bondo (and anyone else at ML), any suggestions you would give me to get a fast start out of the gate? What would you do if you were a new trainee knowing what you know today?
We were told the same thing, but reality is those accounts do count. I do know some of the senior guys who swear not to chase family and friends as clients only were able to survive the first few years by having a large base of their clients be family and friends. Hell, I know one new POA whose entire book is family and friends, except for one walk-in. Akkula - One other tip. NEVER forget where you came from. Do not forget how hard the first few years are. Quite a few senior advisors in my office have forgotten. The ones who remember seem to still be knocking the cover off the ball. Those who have forgotten are just cruising along and not increasing business.I can’t speak for all branches but at my branch, we have the anti friends and family approach. As POAers we are specifically told that our friends and family DON’T count towards our hurdles. While I know that this is not enforced, it is told to us. The reasoning is simple. If you can’t make the hurdles without friends and family, then chances are that you can’t make it in the business.
–WM
I started at ML and got out of the gate fast. I would say that you should take what WM and Bondo have said to heart. While I was still taking the tests, I was building my first cold call list by hand. I would go onto mapquest and locate a wealthy neighborhood and print out a map of all the streets in that neighborhood. I would then look up every street in the Coles directory in my office. I had to enter about 12,000 phone numbers in order to get 1,200 that were callable. It was painstaking work, but it was worth it as I was the only POA that was ready to go from day one. It has already been mentioned, but I would find a mentor. Due to my work ethic, I had my pick of mentors in my office. The guy I decided to seek help from helped me to get wholesaler support with guys he was already doing business with. So I was able to get people to the dinner seminars we did on VA's. It's tough when you're starting out to get wholesaler support without dropping tickets. The ones who will likely help will come from smaller fund companies...which is fine. Without much money, you need to be creative. Here's what I did: I would target the 55+ neighborhoods that had clubs for the active seniors. There were clubs like bridge, poker, skeet shooting, knitting, etc... I called the guy who was in charge of the skeet shooting club and asked if I could sponsor a day at the skeet range for his group. He was happy to round up 10 guys and we went and shot skeet. It was only about $10/person and the wholesaler was happy to pay for it and bring prizes. Other successful POA'ers that I've heard of have cold called from AutoTrader and stuff like that. Another guy would play golf as a single and join up with 3 people. You just need to have a routine and do it over and over again. It will come down to how many qualified people you talk to on a daily basis. There are things I wish I would've learned earlier. I wish someone had told me not to talk about investments as much, but to instead find the pain. Also, I would've read some of Nick Murray's stuff as I am now a big fan of his. There are lots of ways to succeed in this business. You have to try different things until you find something that works. On the same point, just because someone, like a senior FA or branch manager says something, it doesn't mean it's true. It's their opinion. Don't let that stop you from forming your own opinions about things. For instance, I had a branch manager who was adamently opposed to doing VA's in IRAs. So at first, I thought it was bad. But now, VA's in IRA's make up a big portion of my business. I would also say that you should have a weekly schedule that you time block different activities for. Stick to it and stay disciplined. Focus on the things you can control (hours spent working, number of dials, daily activities, etc...). If you will be doing a lot of cold calling, create a list of open ended questions that dig for pain. Keep that handy when you're prospecting. These are just a few things I did/learned. Good luck (luck comes from hard work by the way).Hey WM and Bondo (and anyone else at ML), any suggestions you would give me to get a fast start out of the gate? What would you do if you were a new trainee knowing what you know today?