ML Financial Advisor and POA
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I think the whole trainee business model at the firms is f’d up.
My office has 30+ POAs, many of them kids, all of whom are crashing and
burning. There are only about 5-7 POAs that are on track to make
it.
A better business model is this - instead of sending 30 trainees to the
wolves, bring in about 5-10 new college grads to work directly with a
senior FA who wants a team member. Their primary role would be to
help with planning and work the lower book. Their secondary role
would be to integrate themselves in the community, with a long term
objective of gathering assets. Then start their clock at say year
10, and if they don’t gather the assets that are expected put them in a
"penalty box" with a reduced payout or something until they bring it
up.
That way, when their primary role switches over to prospecting (yr
~10), they will a) already know a ton of people because they have
integrated themselves in the community; b) be able to say "ive been at
merrill for 10 years…i.e credibility; c) actually know the business
and what to do with people’s money; d) be in their early 30s and
look/seem more responsible and trustworthy…
I would agree with that concept somewhat, but how about 2-3 years instead of 10… Mother would never pay for that long…
The program I run has over 80% success rate over the last 3
years. I have seen POA’s team up with Sr FA’s, work together in
groups on seminars and networking, and go solo. WHy do they
succeed? Its because of themselves, far more than their
situation…but they don’t come in fresh with everything in
place. We meet weekly for 1 1/2 hours covering prospecting,
product/planning, and business management.
I breed a culture of acknowledging this career as much more than what
90% of these posts describe it as. I encourage them to open any
account they can, regardless of size to get experience; as all ML FA’s
are paid on EVERYTHING for the first year and the cut-off for getting
no comp at all is $50,000, NOT $250,000. Their marketing and
efforts should be directed at $100,000 plus however.
How do they get clients? They cold call, do seminars, network,
and specialize. They do ALL of this every single day. They
organize their day and track activities and success (all of which I
teach). Then they focus more time on the activities they are
getting the most success. I have seen them get published, get
asked to be guest speakers, open 5 mil plus relationships, and 1 get a
15 mil 401k. Nearly all of the POA’s in my region have graduated,
are on track to graduate, and will continue to do so. The ones
that don’t have the attitude displayed out here on so many of these
posts. We hire right and work very hard to instill a culture that
is positive, exciting, fun, and disciplined.
You can succeed in this business at ML, a bank, Indy, or a
regional. It really does not matter because in all rests on you,
not your firm. You should just make sure your firms culture and
platform can fit the type of business you would like to build.
[quote=rightway]The program I run has over 80% success rate over the last 3 years. I have seen POA's team up with Sr FA's, work together in groups on seminars and networking, and go solo. WHy do they succeed? Its because of themselves, far more than their situation...but they don't come in fresh with everything in place. We meet weekly for 1 1/2 hours covering prospecting, product/planning, and business management.
I breed a culture of acknowledging this career as much more than what 90% of these posts describe it as. I encourage them to open any account they can, regardless of size to get experience; as all ML FA's are paid on EVERYTHING for the first year and the cut-off for getting no comp at all is $50,000, NOT $250,000. Their marketing and efforts should be directed at $100,000 plus however.
How do they get clients? They cold call, do seminars, network, and specialize. They do ALL of this every single day. They organize their day and track activities and success (all of which I teach). Then they focus more time on the activities they are getting the most success. I have seen them get published, get asked to be guest speakers, open 5 mil plus relationships, and 1 get a 15 mil 401k. Nearly all of the POA's in my region have graduated, are on track to graduate, and will continue to do so. The ones that don't have the attitude displayed out here on so many of these posts. We hire right and work very hard to instill a culture that is positive, exciting, fun, and disciplined.
You can succeed in this business at ML, a bank, Indy, or a regional. It really does not matter because in all rests on you, not your firm. You should just make sure your firms culture and platform can fit the type of business you would like to build.
[/quote]
this is a good post. a lot has to do w/ the specific branch
Scorpio you have a very naive view of the way business works. Your desire to have someone mentor you and groom you for success is naive and foolish. If that is your desire, perhaps you should have signed on as an intern. Do you think that associates in Investment Banking or law have “senior bankers” hold their hand till they are experienced? No, they do grunt work and have to prove themselves. An NYU MBA is only going to provide you with the opportunity to work hard and prove yourself. There is a reason 60% of associates at top-law firms fail after three years (WSJ two weeks ago). It is the same as the reason 66% of rookie advisors fail. Laziness and a sense of entitlement. If your serious about being an advisor, stop complaining and work harder and smarter. Please don’t come on a message board after 90-120 days on the job and discuss a career you know absolutely nothing about. It’s disrespectful to everyone on the board that diligently works on their clients behalf.
[quote=fired?]Scorpio you have a very naive view of the way business works. Your desire to have someone mentor you and groom you for success is naive and foolish. If that is your desire, perhaps you should have signed on as an intern. Do you think that associates in Investment Banking or law have "senior bankers" hold their hand till they are experienced? No, they do grunt work and have to prove themselves. An NYU MBA is only going to provide you with the opportunity to work hard and prove yourself. There is a reason 60% of associates at top-law firms fail after three years (WSJ two weeks ago). It is the same as the reason 66% of rookie advisors fail. Laziness and a sense of entitlement. If your serious about being an advisor, stop complaining and work harder and smarter. Please don't come on a message board after 90-120 days on the job and discuss a career you know absolutely nothing about. It's disrespectful to everyone on the board that diligently works on their clients behalf. [/quote]
while his view is a little naive, this is a horrible comparison. in fact there really is no comparison bw being a broker and being a lawyer. 60% of associates at top law firms do not fail after 3 yrs. they quit for quality of life reasons and most of them continue practicing law for a smaller firm that doesnt require 80 hour work weeks. failed brokers and those who quit dont migrate to wirehouses where the hours are better.
likewise, ibankers and associates may not have their hand held but they do have consistent work. all they have to do is do it. there is a lot more structure. you cant simply expect to 'work hard' and bring in $40mm in 3yrs.
xmsbroker you are 100% incorrect. Lawyers and “brokers” careers are extremely similar. More so than you could ever imagine. You will never, ever, make partner at a prestiguous las firm without exhibiting an ability to bring in clients. NEVER. Failed brokers and those who quit don’t work at wirehouses because they can’t. Many of them leave for careers at Scottrade, Banks, or small independent shops. Again, very similar to a lawyer. Finally, lawyers that work at small law firms won’t make significant money unless their name is on the door or if their doing personal injury which most law school graduates claim they will never practice.
Investment banking associates will never get consistent work unless they prove themselves by crunching numbers that no-one will ever look. Many of them are expected to compute complicated IRR computations by hand when they can easily be done using an HP calculator. It is a horrible existence for the first few years. Do you think that IB associates walk in the first day and are given the keys to the google account? Get real.
The only difference is law firms and Invesment Banks are more reluctant to fire new hires after 12 months because of the higher salaries they are paid. They know who is going to be successful after 3-6 months, just like in retail.
What does a branch manager care about firing some disgruntled rookie making $25-30,000? Most of the kids on this board need to learn more about business before running your idiotic mouths.
[quote=rightway]The program I run has over 80% success rate over the last 3 years.
[/quote]
Thank you for posting one of the most insightful replies that I have seen. These forums seem to be filled with a fair deal of noise from people who I doubt will make it far in the business. It’s the signal provided by people like you (and others) that makes it worthwhile to continue using these forums as a resource for information.
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I’m not an expert, but an 80% success rate seems extremely high. What is the average success rate? How much of the success do you attribute to screening before hire and how much do you attribute to the culture? I would think that culture is the main driving force, but I could also see that filtering out the negative people ahead of time helps keep the momentum.
I’ve been putting more thought into how I will attract clients. I feel that the majority will be though my network but I do plan to also focus on independent business owners. Cold calling feels like a dirty term since I personally would never buy anything from someone who just calls me out of the blue. I’m not saying that I wouldn’t use it as a tool, especially one to gain experience from and to try new approaches out on. What types of resources are there for warm calling? Are you allowed to prospect existing clients who are being handled only by the call center and may have additional funds to bring to ML?
I didn’t mean to sound like a snob with the 250K client minimum. I was actually using that to say how I enjoy the latitude that ML gives. I’ve spoken to Goldman and JP Morgan. Their minimums are $10 and $5 million. It is interesting to hear that clients as low as $50K are allowed. I though they anything under 100K would go to the call centers.
Thank you!
BTW, the “noise” as you call it on these forums is also worthwhile
information because its reality. If it were absent from these
forums, you would be disillusioned.
[quote=fired?]xmsbroker you are 100% incorrect. Lawyers and "brokers" careers are extremely similar. More so than you could ever imagine. You will never, ever, make partner at a prestiguous las firm without exhibiting an ability to bring in clients. NEVER. Failed brokers and those who quit don't work at wirehouses because they can't. Many of them leave for careers at Scottrade, Banks, or small independent shops. Again, very similar to a lawyer. Finally, lawyers that work at small law firms won't make significant money unless their name is on the door or if their doing personal injury which most law school graduates claim they will never practice.
Investment banking associates will never get consistent work unless they prove themselves by crunching numbers that no-one will ever look. Many of them are expected to compute complicated IRR computations by hand when they can easily be done using an HP calculator. It is a horrible existence for the first few years. Do you think that IB associates walk in the first day and are given the keys to the google account? Get real.
The only difference is law firms and Invesment Banks are more reluctant to fire new hires after 12 months because of the higher salaries they are paid. They know who is going to be successful after 3-6 months, just like in retail.
What does a branch manager care about firing some disgruntled rookie making $25-30,000? Most of the kids on this board need to learn more about business before running your idiotic mouths. [/quote]
First of all, I'm not sure why youre so adamant about the 'similarities,' its okay for brokers to be different than dr.s, lawyers, and bankers. Brokers enjoy more freedom and sacrifice some security. As do most salesmen, brokers theoretically have unlimited upside but make far less at the mean and medians. There is also a far greater barrier of entry in law and even IB.
The definition of 'Lawyer' is too broad to compare to 'Broker.' SOME lawyers do have similar careers to brokers. However, not the ones you referenced w/ the WSJ article. Personal injury, malpractice, dui, etc. lawyers that hang their own shingle share some similarities in that they have to scrap and build up clients. Everyday they could find a good client and double their income or lose a client(s) and be hungry. They are more in control of their paycheck and have the potential to get rich very quickly. However, most do not and many struggle.
This is a world away from the corporate lawyers you originally refered to - those referenced by the WSJ who work 'Biglaw.' The market salary for 1st yr law associates at the top firms is $145k + bonus. Associates work very long hours and often do mundane work. They do not bring in clients nor are they really even allowed to solicit (that distinction alone makes your comparison foolish). Lawyers that leave these top firms rarely go from biglaw to personal injury. There are thousands of firms in b/w who are dying to take associates w/ Watchell on their resume. The hours are a lot better and the chances of partner much greater. while the upside is less than Watchell, they still make a couple hundred grand. Its laughable that you compare this to the transition of a failed ML broker -> Scottrade rep (making $26k).
Yes, you have to work hard in any profession. No law is not easy or glamorous most of the time. Obviously I know that IB analysts dont 'have the Google' account day one. These are not revelations you have uncovered. We all know work is tough and generally tougher in the beginning. There is no need to draw blind comparisons bw different professions when there are plenty of other sales professions that are better examples.
xmsbroker, you are flat-out wrong. A UMich and Yale educated lawyers recently worked in my office, and my significant other is also an attorney. They had associate positions at Reed-Smith and Houston Harbaugh. I conceded that the salary is much higher, but the mundane nature of the job is similar in the beginning. Everyone focuses on the sales aspect of the job. If you want to be a salesman please go sell shoes or become a drug rep. I’ve been able to raise $25 million in three years and I can’t sell anything. Make of that what you will.
Last thing, the big firms don’t make you solicit at first, but you have to get a client if you want to make partner. Trust me.
[quote=fired?]xmsbroker, you are flat-out wrong. A UMich and Yale educated lawyers recently worked in my office, and my significant other is also an attorney. They had associate positions at Reed-Smith and Houston Harbaugh. I conceded that the salary is much higher, but If you want to be a salesman please go sell shoes or become a drug rep. I've been able to raise $25 million in three years and I can't sell anything. Make of that what you will. [/quote]
I know full well what im talking about. My dad and sister are lawyers for vault 50 firms and i was a broker for 4 years...
"the mundane nature of the job is similar in the beginning."
That is way too vague. You could apply that statement to virtually any 2 jobs on the planet. However, the differences b/w prospecting and working on documents are vast and generally suit different types of people.
"Everyone focuses on the sales aspect of the job. If you want to be a salesman please go sell shoes or become a drug rep."
Thats because it is a sales job. Its okay to sell stuff. You sound ashamed to be a salesmen. Even most kool-aid drinkers acknowledge that 'FA' or 'wealth advisor' or whatever is sales position. Why do you think this site is called Registered Rep? Why are you measured on production (sales) rather than the alpha, beta, or rho of your clients' portfolios?
[quote=fired?]Last thing, the big firms don't make you solicit at first, but you have to get a client if you want to make partner. Trust me.[/quote]
That is often (not always) true. you certainly will have to at least inspire faith that you can soon bring in money, but that scenario is unlike being a broker and needing to put numbers up day 1. By that point a lawyer has 3 yrs of industry schooling and 7+ years of work exp. In fact, that scenario is similar to the 10 yr broker training plan that someone suggested but you were completely against. I agree that a 10 yr broker grooming/training program is not going to happen
There are sales aspects to every job in business. Production, aka revenue, is relevent to every business. Advisors that only embrace the sales aspect of the job are not going to be successful in the business 10-15 years from now. Yes, you must generate revenue, but it shouldn’t come from trying to sell, sell, sell. It should come from thoughtful planning and implementation. Lawyers working on the minutia in a document and advisors working thru a cold-calling list aren’t similar? I beg to differ, they are both thankless jobs that do not yield results until much farther down the road. Estate planning attorney’s receive the majority of their trust documents from the National Assocation of Estate Planning Attorney’s. Any lawyer will tell the documents are the easy part. The difference between a lawyer and an advisor is in the barriers to entry. The big firms simply hire too many advisors. Most fail and come to these forums to disparage the industry.
[quote=fired?] I've been able to raise $25 million in three years and I can't sell anything. [/quote]
What are the key factors to your success? What areas do you target?
[quote=fired?]There are sales aspects to every job in business. Production, aka revenue, is relevent to every business. Advisors that only embrace the sales aspect of the job are not going to be successful in the business 10-15 years from now. Yes, you must generate revenue, but it shouldn't come from trying to sell, sell, sell. It should come from thoughtful planning and implementation. Lawyers working on the minutia in a document and advisors working thru a cold-calling list aren't similar? I beg to differ, they are both thankless jobs that do not yield results until much farther down the road. Estate planning attorney's receive the majority of their trust documents from the National Assocation of Estate Planning Attorney's. Any lawyer will tell the documents are the easy part. The difference between a lawyer and an advisor is in the barriers to entry. The big firms simply hire too many advisors. Most fail and come to these forums to disparage the industry. [/quote]
"I beg to differ, they are both thankless jobs that do not yield results until much farther down the road."
Wrong again. As youve already agreed with, law associates at top firms get paid $145k+. Id say thats a more than fair thanks. And they arent scrounging to find the work.
Wealth Advisor my clients are 85% physicians and the remainder are professionals in a variety of different fields. The largest client is $5 million. The top-5 clients account for approximately $10-12 million. My methods were networking, referrals, cold-calling, exceptional service and most importantly luck and hard work. The luck was a result of the hard work.
xmsbroker, only the top 1% of law school grads get jobs at top firms and 60% of them fail. Do the math, very few lawyers make $100k out of law school. The average is between $40-60k. You have no idea what you are talking about.