A little ageism for prof. put trader

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Apr 23, 2005 7:27 pm

"To argue that women and blacks are not present in the branches because of hiring policies is ridiculous.  A huge reason they're not there is because they're not smart enough to pass the qualification exams."

It's one of Wall Street's most frustrating issues--and most tightly held "dirty little secrets."


These are not my words, but those of our highly esteemed racist, sexist intellectual collegue, Professor of Socal Engineering Sciences, Dr Prof. Put Trader.


Dr Pr. Put Trader, I would love to agree with every word you state, only I have one problem, I suffer from ageism, a highly virulent strain of prejudice towards the elderly, and given that you passed your exams in 1971, suggests to me you are an old codger, and thus are not entitled to any opinions of your own, and really the only place for your opinions, should be in the ear of your nurse asking if she can wheel you to the bathroom so that you can lay yet another giant turd.


Obviously you are mistaking this forum for your bathroom.....

Apr 24, 2005 2:12 pm
dancethedrink:

"Dr Pr. Put Trader, I would love to agree with every word you state, only I have one problem, I suffer from ageism, a highly virulent strain of prejudice towards the elderly, and given that you passed your exams in 1971, suggests to me you are an old codger, and thus are not entitled to any opinions of your own, and really the only place for your opinions, should be in the ear of your nurse asking if she can wheel you to the bathroom so that you can lay yet another giant turd.


Obviously you are mistaking this forum for your bathroom.....



Nice  I hope that your punk assed snot nosed attitude doesn't extend to your clients....... You know, those nasty old codgers that are your bread and butter.  If it does, then a career change may be in order for you.   It may also come as a big shock, but probably not all of your clients share your attitudes or political leanings.


While I may not agree with everything that PutTrader says I do agree wit this: a brokerage is (gasp!.....get ready) a business.  It is a shame that women and minorities are not more demographically represented in the industry, however, the purpose of a business is to offer a product for a profit to the business.  If you want to work where there is no need to make a profit and operate in a "feel good, politically correct" manner, get employed by a government agency, where there is no accountability and taxes can be raised to keep funding the feel good programs.   As a business, if the product offered (in the form of women brokers or ethnic brokers) isn't being bought by the clients...... well you get the picture.  On the other hand I guess you don't.

Apr 24, 2005 3:10 pm

Babbling Loony, (you named yourself not me)


I guess you missed the whole point of my post - namely that tasting one's own medicine (prejudices) is sometimes a bitter pill to swallow, and that all people of all shades, all sexes, all ages will always be the target of someone's prejudices and ignorance.


I certainly have nothing but respect for my elders and would never, in my wildest dreams, think that way or talk that way to anyone, younger or older than me just because of their age....but I was showing the ugly side to isms, whch Prof Put Trader seems to take to a whole new level.


What concerns me about you Sir, is that you take offense (rightly) to the very rude remarks concerning old people, and yet, seem to be very ok with Put Trader's remarks that,  and I quote, "To argue that women and blacks are not present in the branches because of hiring policies is ridiculous.  A huge reason they're not there is because they're not smart enough to pass the qualification exams."


This leads me to believe that you are of a similar ilk to Pr Put Trader, or perhaps even are one and the same person signing in under two separate names to fool yourself that you are not the only one whose opinions about minorities and women are outrageous and racist but as far as old people are concerned is so very politically correct....???

Apr 24, 2005 3:27 pm
dancethedrink:

Babbling Loony, (you named yourself not me)


I guess you missed the whole point of my post - namely that tasting one's own medicine (prejudices) is sometimes a bitter pill to swallow, and that all people of all shades, all sexes, all ages will always be the target of someone's prejudices and ignorance.


I certainly have nothing but respect for my elders and would never, in my wildest dreams, think that way or talk that way to anyone, younger or older than me just because of their age....but I was showing the ugly side to isms, whch Prof Put Trader seems to take to a whole new level.


What concerns me about you Sir, is that you take offense (rightly) to the very rude remarks concerning old people, and yet, seem to be very ok with Put Trader's remarks that,  and I quote, "To argue that women and blacks are not present in the branches because of hiring policies is ridiculous.  A huge reason they're not there is because they're not smart enough to pass the qualification exams."


This leads me to believe that you are of a similar ilk to Pr Put Trader, or perhaps even are one and the same person signing in under two separate names to fool yourself that you are not the only one whose opinions about minorities and women are outrageous and racist but as far as old people are concerned is so very politically correct....???



Actually I think that 'sir' is a "m'am".


I agree that this is a business and that the ultimate goal is to make  a profit.  However, I find PT's bigotry-thinly disguised as pragmatism and hard business sense-to be disturbing at best.

Apr 24, 2005 3:38 pm

Hey Joe,


A voice of reason!


I would say disturbing at the VERY best...


Just for the Professor and his buddies to know, I am not black, I am not female, I am not a vegetarian, I am not a paid up member of the ACLU, I have never held a government or local authority job, I am just your average, reasonably well educated guy who can smell the rotten stench of prejudice, resentment and jealousy, which when combined, can and usually does create the perfect breeding ground for racism, sexism and every other ism in the book to grow and multiply......

Apr 24, 2005 4:05 pm

My comment is getting lost in all the whining--let's put it on the table again.



Most of the Negroes in the United States are too stupid to graduate
from high school much less pass qualification exams for professional
positions.



The few who are gravitate to the true professions, medicine and the law.



Since the NASD is not willing to curve or race-norm the Series 7 it is
doubtful that there will ever be more than a handful of Negroes in the
brokerage industry.



Well, that's not necessarily true--you don't have to pass exams to work
in operations or investment banking so that' where you see them.

Apr 24, 2005 4:30 pm
dancethedrink:

Hey Joe,


A voice of reason!


I would say disturbing at the VERY best...


Just for the Professor and his buddies to know, I am not black, I am not female, I am not a vegetarian, I am not a paid up member of the ACLU, I have never held a government or local authority job, I am just your average, reasonably well educated guy who can smell the rotten stench of prejudice, resentment and jealousy, which when combined, can and usually does create the perfect breeding ground for racism, sexism and every other ism in the book to grow and multiply......



Thank you.  Frankly 'disturbing' is a rather kind term, most likely too kind.  "Repulsive" is more like it.  It's sad to think that PT spent some years pulling the levers of power, and yet it explains a big part of why there is so little diversity in the retail business.


Yes it is quite a rotten stench. ;-(

Apr 24, 2005 4:34 pm
Put Trader:

My comment is getting lost in all the whining--let's put it on the table again.

Most of the Negroes in the United States are too stupid to graduate from high school much less pass qualification exams for professional positions.

The few who are gravitate to the true professions, medicine and the law.

Since the NASD is not willing to curve or race-norm the Series 7 it is doubtful that there will ever be more than a handful of Negroes in the brokerage industry.

Well, that's not necessarily true--you don't have to pass exams to work in operations or investment banking so that' where you see them.


Wow....each post you make is more offensive than the last!  I find myself wondering at times if maybe you're just posting this stuff to stir the pot, because I find it hard to believe that anyone could really believe this stuff still.  Then again, I know it is naive to think that there are no longer bigots and racists in the world.  Clearly you are one of them.

Apr 24, 2005 4:47 pm

[quote=Put Trader]My comment is getting lost in all the whining--let's put it on the table again.

Most of the Negroes in the United States are too stupid to graduate from high school much less pass qualification exams for professional positions.

Whoa now! I don't agree with this proposition at all!!  Many minorities have come from disadvantaged school systems that barely teach enough to get a job flipping burgers much less the skills needed to succeed in the business world or work in a math intensive occupation.  Many come from family backgrounds and a social setting that doesn't encourage or stress the goal setting that is needed to become a professional.  Many have not obtained the social skills (speaking, dressing etc) to integrate into the Wall Street and corporate culture.  This is not to say that all these things can't be learned given the desire and opportunity.     It has nothing to do with the brains of the man or woman.  It's all about opportunity and desire.  


As a woman and being greatly outnumbered in this field I know that there are a lot of hurdles, that are invisible to those who don't need to jump over them.  (BTW I passed my Series 7 with a 98 score.)  But whinning about the hurdles will not make them go away or have the bar lowered, nor should it.    As to the pragmatism of business, well that is also a stone cold fact.  My husband has been self employed for 18 years and I have been self employed in the past and now again as an independent advisor.  Being in business is tough and you have to make tough decisions and be accountable to yourself, your business partners and your clients.  It is nice to give someone a helping hand but not at the expense of the business or your own livelihood.  Running a business is not a charitable occupation nor is it a social science experiment.


We have already had a big discussion on how the brokerage industry doesn't support women.  I personally don't have a clue how it could be done or even why it should be done, but......If you want to bring minorities the brokerage world, I suggest setting up a charitable foundation that will help give them the leg up they need in terms of the shortfalls I have already mentioned.  I understand that in some urban areas there already exist some such groups and have established brokerages and other businesses staffed and run exlusively by those minorities.  More power to them, but that is their business, and mine is mine.

Apr 24, 2005 5:03 pm

Babbling Looney,


I am glad that you can put some distance between yourself and the Brown Shirt Put Trader - hopefully his remarks will be an eye opener for you.

Apr 24, 2005 5:38 pm

Regarding Series 7 test scores.



The average PASSING score is in the low 70s and the average failing
score is in the high 60s--meaning that most people are clustered
between 60 and 80.



My former employer--a major wirehouse--has never had a perfect score
and only two people in the history of the firm scored 98s, both of them
lawyers who had been in the compliance area for years.  They
wanted to move away from New York and were being assigned a branch--one
somewhere in Florida the other on the North Coast of California.



As they say, if you score more than 70 you overstudied.

Apr 24, 2005 5:40 pm
joedabrkr:

Wow....each post you make is more offensive than the last!  I
find myself wondering at times if maybe you're just posting this stuff
to stir the pot, because I find it hard to believe that anyone could
really believe this stuff still.  Then again, I know it is naive
to think that there are no longer bigots and racists in the
world.  Clearly you are one of them.





Are you saying that what I am saying is wrong just because I am using "offensive rhetoric" to say it?

Apr 24, 2005 7:20 pm
dancethedrink:

Babbling Looney,


I am glad that you can put some distance between yourself and the
Brown Shirt Put Trader - hopefully his remarks will be an eye opener
for you.





Tell me Dancethedrink, which of my rermarks can you debunk with evidence to the contrary?

Apr 25, 2005 12:08 pm

I don't need to have my eyes opened. I can see quite clearly, thank you.

Apr 25, 2005 12:52 pm
Put Trader:

My comment is getting lost in all the whining--let's put it on the table again.

Most of the Negroes in the United States are too stupid to graduate from high school much less pass qualification exams for professional positions.


Are your Klan outfits wash and wear (I'm assuming your have a woman or a "colored fella" to do that for you) or do they have to be dry cleaned (not doubt you have a favorite Chinese laundry)?

Apr 25, 2005 4:10 pm
babbling looney:

I don't need to have my eyes opened. I can see quite clearly, thank you.


I disagree. You do need your eyes opened. If you "could see quite clearly thankyou", you would have any common ground whatsoever with Mr Hitler, and if you can "see quite clearly thankyou", you would have understood immediately, that my outrageous comments about old people, were merely giving Hitler a taste of his own medicine, instead you thought I meant it..........I don't see too much eye opening there.

Apr 25, 2005 4:51 pm
Put Trader:



As they say, if you score more than 70 you overstudied.


Haha, that's what everyone tells me...


On a side note, not all minorities grew up in the ghetto, and recieved a second rate education.  I went to the second best [pubil] highschool in the country.  I had a graduating class of over 1,100, and there was a fair share of all races represented.


They had the opportunity to recieve a high quality education.  What they choose to do with it, is their perogative.


I think everyone should have an equal opportunity.  That being said, if 95% of the applicants are white males, and 5% are minorities.  The industry should (probably) be comprised of 95% white males.  I also believe the people hired should fit the demographic of the area they are in. 

Apr 25, 2005 5:34 pm

I think everyone should have an equal opportunity.  That being said, if 95% of the applicants are white males, and 5% are minorities.  The industry should (probably) be comprised of 95% white males.  I also believe the people hired should fit the demographic of the area they are in.


Common sense, at last.  I believe this entire discussion began as with the idea that there are less women and minorities in the industry and that it was due to overt (as opposed to covert or sublte) discrimination and that there should be some form of "affirmative action", "diversity programs" or whatever happy horse s**t you want to call it.     I certainly don't agree with the idea of discrimination based on age, sex or ethnicity.  And the idea that some people are inferior because of the above factors is repugnat and ignorant. However, despite what we have had drummed into our heads:  ALL people are NOT equal.  Some men are not cut out to be brokers, some women are.  Some blacks excel in math and some asians don't. So on and so on.  Not all men or women qualify as firemen/police/construction workers etc. If you can't pass the test, lift the weight or dance the dance, you don't get to get the job.  Period.  If a person is qualified for the job then he/she should be seriously considered as an applicant and not immediately tossed into the reject pile because of ethnicity or gender.


BTW:  this is an interesting article relevant to the above.  A great book.


http://slate.msn.com/id/2116449/


As to people being hired to fit the demographics, that is what any smart manager of any business will do.  Given two equally qualifed applicants the manager must then decide who will best fit into the organization, make money for the company and be able to deal with the customers.  I'm sorry to say that predjudice is a part of this world, and while it is not right....it is. 


Also, I can see quite clearly that Put Trader is yanking your chains and having a hell of a good time doing it.

Apr 26, 2005 9:01 am

"Also, I can see quite clearly that Put Trader is yanking your chains and having a hell of a good time doing it. "


I was with you until this last line. I'm convinced he and his little buddy are speaking from their hearts.

Apr 26, 2005 11:04 am
stanwbrown:

"Also, I can see quite clearly that Put Trader is yanking your chains and having a hell of a good time doing it. "


I was with you until this last line. I'm convinced he and his little buddy are speaking from their hearts.



I'm hoping that they aren't and that they are, as my husband says when he posts on some chat rooms, poking a stick at the beehive.