How much of the 40% do we really keep- EDJ

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Dec 23, 2010 6:38 pm

OK, I have made through the training, eval/grad, received my can/sell date, and taken over an office. And now I have to ask a really stupid question. I have been so focused on becoming what I wanted to be that I never stopped to ask how the compensation works! I know 36-40% is the magic number, and I think it is based on gross production. Am I right? 

How much of that 36-40% do I really pocket? Aside from Uncle Sam's cut, what deductions should I expect to see?

I feel like a fool for having to ask this question, but I am willing to risk the ridicule to get an answer! 

Thanks,

Kodak

Dec 25, 2010 7:59 am

The only deductions would be insurance, taxes, long distance calls and postage . You do have to pay for all office expenses except printer supplies. But you can control that to some extent.  You control mailings and advertising. Like a vet said once it would have been better off buying a new pair of shoes rather than advertising.

Dec 25, 2010 12:52 pm

I estimate I pocket 19% of every dollar of commission earned - that is strickly before office exp. and anything extra you opt to do. Those numbers are very flexable. 

If you are new however that number will be much larger because of milestone and new account bonus.

Dec 25, 2010 4:49 pm

Thanks guys! Your help on this is greatly appreciated!

I'll let you know how I do.

Kodak

Dec 26, 2010 2:00 pm

Please don't take this the wrong way, but just to understand... at EJ, you are on a 40% payout AND you have expenses to pay for like long distance phone calls, postage, insurance, etc.?  

If guess having an office/book of business given to you in many cases to manage is worth it to some extent, but that payout seems really low for someone effectively managing their own "firm" and office, so to speak.  

The wire payouts, typically seen as low, are anywhere from 38-45% depending on your production level, but you effectively have all of the "expenses" paid for.  As an indy, you pay those expenses, but your payout starts at around 90%.  

What's the allure to EJ?  

Dec 27, 2010 8:23 am

[quote=Nova02]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but just to understand... at EJ, you are on a 40% payout AND you have expenses to pay for like long distance phone calls, postage, insurance, etc.?  

If guess having an office/book of business given to you in many cases to manage is worth it to some extent, but that payout seems really low for someone effectively managing their own "firm" and office, so to speak.  

The wire payouts, typically seen as low, are anywhere from 38-45% depending on your production level, but you effectively have all of the "expenses" paid for.  As an indy, you pay those expenses, but your payout starts at around 90%.  

What's the allure to EJ?  

[/quote]

The green accent wall is money.


But seriously, the allure of EJ is that you get to pretend to be your own boss and have your own one person office without someone breathing down your neck.  At least, that's what they tell you.  I'm not sure how much of a premium that is for most people, but to me, it makes more sense to go indy.

Then there is the argument that you have to start somewhere and EJ is as good a place as any.

Dec 27, 2010 11:11 am

19% wow superman!

That is sad.

Dec 27, 2010 11:40 am

Sad? Dang, after my wife, kids, and others are done, I'm typically lucky to have 20 bucks in my pocket!

Dec 27, 2010 1:00 pm

19% is after office exp., taxes, 401k, ins., etc.   Really ... how much does an indy clear net/net - 25%? 30%?  I can't think it's much more than that.

Dec 27, 2010 1:51 pm

The percentage all depends on what your production level is.  Someone doing 500K is going to pocket a larger % than someone doing 200K.  Why?  First, the larger porducer will get bigger bonuses, larger profit sharing contributions, and their deductions (office expenses & benefits) will be a lower % of their gross.

Having said that, someone that is 3-4 years out, doing like 200K of production will probably pocket about 32-35% (before taxes, and not including 401K contributions, since it's YOUR money).  Another big wildcard ois your benefits.  Jones covers like 30% of your health care premium (I think), so depending on your family situation and whether or not you need benefits at all, that will make a difference.

But assuming you use NO benefits, and make NO 401K contribution, the operating expenses can be very minimal (I spend MAYBE $100 a month on supplies and stamps, but generally far less).  But you also pay for most of your marketing, so that's another biug wildcard.

At the end of the day, figure 32-35% of gross before taxes, marketing, and office supplies for a low-ish producer.

Dec 27, 2010 2:11 pm

This is a really difficult conversation to have because it's different for everyone.  I'd say 19% is a little on the low side, but not by much.  Just a rough estimate of mine for the last year was about 22% went to my bank account.  But, I also put money in my HSA and 401K, I buy supplemental insurance on my wife and kids, and do some other things that other folks might not do. 

Then you get into bonuses, profit sharing, div trips, etc and what you keep starts creeping up.  And if you factor in new account bonuses, milestone bonuses, subsidized insurance and some other things newer FAs get that us old guys don't, well, you should keep more than I do on a percentage basis. 

I'm sure it's not what a lot of the indy guys keep, but that's a whole different conversation. 

Dec 27, 2010 4:32 pm

[quote=lovindaindy]

[quote=Nova02]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but just to understand... at EJ, you are on a 40% payout AND you have expenses to pay for like long distance phone calls, postage, insurance, etc.?  

If guess having an office/book of business given to you in many cases to manage is worth it to some extent, but that payout seems really low for someone effectively managing their own "firm" and office, so to speak.  

The wire payouts, typically seen as low, are anywhere from 38-45% depending on your production level, but you effectively have all of the "expenses" paid for.  As an indy, you pay those expenses, but your payout starts at around 90%.  

What's the allure to EJ?  

[/quote]

The green accent wall is money.


But seriously, the allure of EJ is that you get to pretend to be your own boss and have your own one person office without someone breathing down your neck.  At least, that's what they tell you.  I'm not sure how much of a premium that is for most people, but to me, it makes more sense to go indy.

Then there is the argument that you have to start somewhere and EJ is as good a place as any.

[/quote]

Therein lies the paradox with our industry; it almost forces you to start with a wire or regional firm before going independent and you have to put up with their crap for a few years until you can swing it on your own. 

Dec 27, 2010 5:30 pm

[quote=Nova02]

Herein lies the paradox with our industry; it almost forces you to start with a wire or regional firm before going independent and you have to put up with their crap for a few years until you can swing it on your own. 

[/quote]

Amen! I do what I have to do in order to do what I love and make money doing it. I like the people I work with (my region), I like working with my BOA with relative autonomy. I liked the training I received. It is a win-win for me.

Dec 27, 2010 5:48 pm

Spaceman, B24,

Thanks for the information... I had a great week... Took over a competitive situation, but have contacted almost everyone in my book while having a good week building my own prospects. It looks like I will lose 35%-45% of my book, but they are mostly friends and family of the old FA. book started out at 25 mil aum and will drop to 12-15. How much will this contribute to my monthly gross? Just wondering?

Kodak

Dec 28, 2010 8:00 am

No one will know how much it will contribute to your monthly gross.  We just don't know what your book is made up of.  It's a good bet A share mutual funds and long term bonds with some stocks tossed in.  It won't do much in trails but no doubt there are some rocks to turn over in that book. 


So the old FA had 15mm in friends and family?  Wish I had that!  My only advice is service the heck out of your book and don't stop prospecting.  It will be the difference between winning and losing.  Good luck.

Dec 28, 2010 9:42 am

Your BEST clients will be the ones you create yourself.  I look at my top 25 clients and well over half of them are people that I either doorknocked or were referred to me.  Only 2 or 3 of them were already in that top 25 when I took over the branch.   

When I go past my top 25 it always kind of shocks me how many clients I've created myself over the years and how little impact the original book I took over has on my current production.  Less than a third of my existing book is made up of clients I inherited.  And many of those are inactive or small accounts that I plan on Goodknighting someday in the future. 

My point being, don't rely on the book you take over to be what makes you successful at Jones.  10 years out, you probably won't have too many of those folks still in your book.  Keep prospecting for those new folks.  And don't stop until you get to $50 mil.  I made the mistake of letting off the gas too soon.  If I had a do over, that's the biggest thing I'd change. 

Dec 28, 2010 12:47 pm

[quote=Spaceman Spiff].   

When I go past my top 25 it always kind of shocks me how many clients I've created myself over the years and how little impact the original book I took over has on my current production.  Less than a third of my existing book is made up of clients I inherited.  And many of those are inactive or small accounts that I plan on Goodknighting someday in the future

[/quote]

How nice of you to give your crap away to a newbie... that's the Jones way huh? Or are you going to do a Legacy and a GK to the same newb?

IMO, GKs are 95% worthless unless they come with an office. Having an office with just enough clients to keep you busy on rainy days is the way to go.

Dec 28, 2010 1:01 pm

Yep, that's the way it works at Jones, at Merrill, at Morgan Stanley, etc.  Do you think when an indy rep brings on a junior assistant that the new FA gets to deal with all of the vet's prime accounts?  I don't think so. 

I'm not sure you can do both a GKN and a Legacy plan with the same new FA.  I would think the GKN program would superced the Legacy benefits. 

Dec 28, 2010 1:06 pm

The other places don't have the rep work out of their car/house either. I think the value is greater in an office than a GK but that is my opinion from you EJ guys descriptions of each.

Dec 28, 2010 2:00 pm

You sound like a fool, ND.  Why comment on something you clearly have no idea about.  It's easy to see the survival rates of those that inhert assets and those that do not.  It's stagering.  19% of Jones new/news are in the business after 4 years.  The % goes up by a huge degree when someone inherts assets of any size.  GKs are only wothless to the guys who recive them and can't give credit where credit is due.