Help, I need some serious advice

or Register to post new content in the forum

33 RepliesJump to last post

 

Comments

  • Allowed HTML tags: <em> <strong> <blockquote> <br> <p>

Plain text

  • No HTML tags allowed.
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.
Feb 10, 2007 5:18 pm

and info.


I am switching careers.  Previously I was a very successful PGA Golf Professional at an exclusive high end (100k Initiation fee) private club for the past 8 years and have had enough.  Been in the industry for 11 years (2 jobs total) since I got out of college. 34 years old.


Currently, I have offers from Morgan Stanley, John Hancock and Banc of America Investments.  I am in a small to medium sized market with a great base of HNW contacts and a strong desire to get after it.  My friend at BOA Investments wants to help me get started and partner up.  He has a huge book and needs help. 


Any experts feel free to give me the scope on what they know.  Thanks in advance!

Feb 10, 2007 5:29 pm

Let point out the obvious. As an advisor of twelve years who just joined a nice golf club and wants to integrate golf into my practice, just focus on the activities of learning and doing the business.


Try to be the  partner who "must" entertain on the golf course. Sounds like you are in pretty good shape.

Feb 10, 2007 5:32 pm

With a nickname like Big Mack, it's gotta be Morgan Stanley (MS:NYSE) for you.

Feb 10, 2007 7:45 pm
bigmack72:

and info.


I am switching careers.  Previously I was a very successful PGA Golf Professional at an exclusive high end (100k Initiation fee) private club for the past 8 years and have had enough.  Been in the industry for 11 years (2 jobs total) since I got out of college. 34 years old.


Currently, I have offers from Morgan Stanley, John Hancock and Banc of America Investments.  I am in a small to medium sized market with a great base of HNW contacts and a strong desire to get after it.  My friend at BOA Investments wants to help me get started and partner up.  He has a huge book and needs help. 


Any experts feel free to give me the scope on what they know.  Thanks in advance!



Your friend is lying. He wants access to your contacts. Your contacts would never even consider the mediocrity that a bank has to offer. Morgan Stanley would be the last investment firm on MY list, but if that's all that is available to you, that's where I would go. Forget John Hancock.

Feb 11, 2007 12:41 am
My Inner Child:

Your friend is lying. He wants access to your
contacts. Your contacts would never even consider the mediocrity that a
bank has to offer. Morgan Stanley would be the last investment firm
on MY list, but if that's all that is available to you, that's
where I would go. Forget John Hancock.





That probably sad but true, people see you as a quick tap into wealthy
golfers. Keep that in mind, BTW why not semi-retire and do golf
lessons, and the corporate circuit?




Feb 11, 2007 8:55 am

Okay, here's some serious advice for you:


1. As much as I detest Mother MERrill, they do have the best "rookie" broker training program on the market and I believe you should give them some consideration as well.


2. If you happen to reside in the SE part of the country, Wachovia's worthy of your consideration as well.


Unfortunately, your BAC friend's interest in you probably has a lot more to do with your current country club clients' list and I would be wary of "introducing" them to him without a written employment contract from BAC which gives you a "piece" of the action for a few years if things don't pan out for you as a broker trainee.


Ask them for a 50-40-30 LEHman plan which GUARANTEES you 50% of your buddy's net commish revenue the 1st year on ANY new client you bring in the door, 40% of his net the 2nd year, and 30% of his net the 3rd year.


That way you get rewarded for your efforts at recruiting your golf clients and have a "built" in source of income for 3 years whether you make it as a trainee broker or not.


This is a very competitive business and the name of the game is AUM (assets under management), so never ever forget that.

Feb 11, 2007 9:55 am

I would go to all the big wires and explain your situation. I think they will all be droling over you, maybe you can find someone to partner up with after you get a feel for the office. I would choose someone who is already successful that between the two of you, you could go to the top.

Feb 11, 2007 4:30 pm

I will def get everything in writing.  The hook is we want to go indy in 3-5 years once I get fully licensed and a book established.


Plus he is throwing me 10-20 mil of his book, giving me three banks and will split all joint work 50/50.  I know the BOAI platform is not the best but in your opinions is this worth looking into further?  BTW they have changed the pathways deal.  Paid for 3 years(45k-55K).  You have the option to opt out and hit the grid earlier if you want and they say they are working on improving the partnering btwn PB/CM and BOAI.

Feb 11, 2007 9:46 pm
bigmack72:

I will def get everything in writing.  The
hook is we want to go indy in 3-5 years once I get fully licensed and a
book established.


Plus he is throwing me 10-20 mil of his book, giving me three banks
and will split all joint work 50/50.  I know the BOAI platform is
not the best but in your opinions is this worth looking into further?





No, because ultimately you will be limited by your platform. Tell your
friend to go indy, and then bring you on board as a junior partner.



Being a bank rep means taking very low payouts in exchange for the
built in credibility of the bank/referral stream. Being a wirehouse
broker means mediocore payouts in exchange for a good platform and some
built in credibility. Being indy, means high payouts, but you have to
pull your self up by your own socks.



Right now everyone in this industry who is looking to hire you, probably see's you as a bottle of champagne ready to be popped.

Feb 11, 2007 10:55 pm
AllREIT:




Tell your
friend to go indy, and then bring you on board as a junior partner.





I think that's the SMART way to do this.  Capture the higher payout right from the start.

You and your buddy can team up together to get the office set up and move his clients over.  You can learn the business first hand from the inside by providing operational/logistical/customer service support in helping him move his clients over, and he can also help you learn about how to build portfolios by having you help him go through their accounts as they come over and service the relationships.

With the higher payout on an indy platform, if you guys watch your budget carefully he'll have much more revenue and thus should be able to easily afford to pay you some coin for the help you provide in getting him up and running.  It also means that he proves he's not just in this to get into your list of contacts.

This will also give you the advantage of having learned a few tricks before you start soliciting your circle of contacts/friends/relatives/fellow professionals for business.  It makes it more likely that you won't make as many of the stupid mistakes that newbie advisors make.

And.....you can use a version of the "takeaway close" on those folks.  Make sure you're seen at the club, stay in contact, play golf with them, so forth, and if they ask about your new business things are going great, but if they hint that they want to talk more specifically, say "well honestly things are so busy right now and I've made a commitment to my partner to get things up and running before I start taking on new clients.  I've made a commitment to him to help him keep good service levels for his existing clients who are joining us.  I'm also taking a few additional training classes and helping to bring on staff.  If your need/interest is really urgent I'll make time to chat with you, but otherwise I really would like to get back with you on this in a few months when we are a little better prepared to handle new clients."

Sounds crazy?  Counterintuitive?  Maybe.  But-people ALWAYS want what they can't have just a little more fervently.  People generally prefer to deal with a busy, successful advisor....and don't like to deal with an advisor who seems desperate, in a hurry, and pushy.

Just my 2 cents.

Feb 11, 2007 11:38 pm
joedabrkr:

With the higher payout on an indy platform, if you
guys watch your budget carefully he'll have much more revenue and thus
should be able to easily afford to pay you some coin for the help you
provide in getting him up and running.  It also means that he proves he's not just in this to get into your list of contacts.





It also means less pressure to produce, so you can build your book the
rightway. A newbie ML broker gives off an air of despiration as he
struggles to raise $15M or lose everything. You on the other hand have
much less pressure.



This will also give you the advantage of having learned a few
tricks before you start soliciting your circle of
contacts/friends/relatives/fellow professionals for business.  It
makes it more likely that you won't make as many of the stupid mistakes
that newbie advisors make.





It's so important to have earned the right to talk to clients. The old
joke at ML was that to train a new broker, it cost the firm $50,000 and
the clients $500,000.



While your friend is making the preparations to go indy, I would take
some basic classes in accounting/finance/economics to help build the
base needed to speak about financial topics intelligently.



A Dale Carnegie Class is also a very good investment.



Sounds crazy?  Counterintuitive?  Maybe. 
But-people ALWAYS want what they can't have just a little more
fervently.  People generally prefer to deal with a busy,
successful advisor....and don't like to deal with an advisor who seems
desperate, in a hurry, and pushy.





Yep, keep your wide open schedule a secret, maintain an air of mystery.
I'd focus on building up a list of contacts/prospects and working very
hard to be well known and well liked.

Feb 12, 2007 8:02 am

I agree that you friend is lying to get access to your contacts.  In my opinion got to ML, SB, UBS or Morgan Stanley.  Keep in mind if you were at a high end club a lot of these members might have more than $3mm to invest in which case you have to GIVE the clients to the private bank.  Go on your own and build your business at a wirehouse - you can make a lot more money and you can take your clients anywhere.  Good luck and let us know what you do!

Feb 12, 2007 9:43 am

What makes you think your contacts would want to do business with this jamoke?


One thing that ought to be really for sure is that the people who golf with you won't want YOU to run their money. They've been around the block enough to let you make all your mistakes on someone else's money. That's just the way it is.


Second, how many of the golfers at your club are already working at Mer, SB, UBS or some indy or regional? I don't even mean how many have their money there, I mean how many are brokers/bankers? What is it, a brand new secret that Golf courses are a good place to Flog product/services? You would be most better off finding someone in the club who would be willing to hire you in.


What I didn't see here is what you qualifications to be a broker are (other than that you have been a golf bum your whole life). I didn't see why you wanted to get into THIS business, wouldn't you be at least as successful being a salesman at the local Alfa Romeo, Lambo or Rolls Royce dealership? (I don't mean to say that you are a glorified cabana boy, Matt Dillon).


This is a serious business, about a serious subject that demands serious seriousness from serial seriositors. Subjecting some stroke sum obssessed schmoe to supplications surrounding stock selections surely is seriously surreal!


Stick to swinging stick. Shingle you own Pro Shop, sell sweaters to septagenarians, super sized sweet spot sets to slicers, shorts to swaggering scions of  the superwealthy, secret strong squeezes aside the sand traps to sugardaddies' sweeties and solititious suggestions of status whilst sniggering soto voce at the losers LOFT.


Meanwhile, stay out of my business!


Mr. A

Feb 12, 2007 9:49 am

"A Dale Carnegie Class is also a very good investment."


Yeah 'cuse there have to be about two and a half people on these forums that AllReit can count as having been Won as a friend and or influenced by his charming style!


Can you imagine what he must have been like before his life was changed by Dale?


Mr. A (who's life philosophy is F*%# Dale Carnegy) 

Feb 12, 2007 10:05 am

Nice alliteration.

Feb 12, 2007 12:13 pm

Sorry, I agree your friend is lying to you.  He wants your contacts.


Want proof?  Ask to see how much revenue (translation PAY) has been generated off that 10-20 million.  My guess is -0-.


I would love to find some fool to take the dead end of my book.


Assets don't do anything for you unless they generate revenue.  That is how you get paid.


Feb 12, 2007 4:23 pm
vbrainy:

Sorry, I agree your friend is lying to you.  He wants your contacts.


Want proof?  Ask to see how much revenue (translation PAY) has
been generated off that 10-20 million.  My guess is -0-.


I would love to find some fool to take the dead end of my book.

Assets don't do anything for you unless they generate revenue.  That is how you get paid.


On a more serious note, why would you expect a PGA golf pro to know the first thing about investments? About putting yes, about puts no.


Just because you know alot of HNW people doesn't make you useful to
them, it does make you useful to people who want to get acess to HNW
people.


What woould be hillarious is to discover that everyone else on the golf course is a stockbroker/realtor trolling for clients.





Feb 12, 2007 4:54 pm
joedabrkr:
AllREIT:



Tell your friend to go indy, and then bring you on board as a junior partner.




I think that's the SMART way to do this.  Capture the higher payout right from the start.

You and your buddy can team up together to get the office set up and move his clients over.  You can learn the business first hand from the inside by providing operational/logistical/customer service support in helping him move his clients over, and he can also help you learn about how to build portfolios by having you help him go through their accounts as they come over and service the relationships.

With the higher payout on an indy platform, if you guys watch your budget carefully he'll have much more revenue and thus should be able to easily afford to pay you some coin for the help you provide in getting him up and running.  It also means that he proves he's not just in this to get into your list of contacts.

This will also give you the advantage of having learned a few tricks before you start soliciting your circle of contacts/friends/relatives/fellow professionals for business.  It makes it more likely that you won't make as many of the stupid mistakes that newbie advisors make.

And.....you can use a version of the "takeaway close" on those folks.  Make sure you're seen at the club, stay in contact, play golf with them, so forth, and if they ask about your new business things are going great, but if they hint that they want to talk more specifically, say "well honestly things are so busy right now and I've made a commitment to my partner to get things up and running before I start taking on new clients.  I've made a commitment to him to help him keep good service levels for his existing clients who are joining us.  I'm also taking a few additional training classes and helping to bring on staff.  If your need/interest is really urgent I'll make time to chat with you, but otherwise I really would like to get back with you on this in a few months when we are a little better prepared to handle new clients."

Sounds crazy?  Counterintuitive?  Maybe.  But-people ALWAYS want what they can't have just a little more fervently.  People generally prefer to deal with a busy, successful advisor....and don't like to deal with an advisor who seems desperate, in a hurry, and pushy.

Just my 2 cents.


Very solid stuff. Getting the big picture, which platform, and aligning interest with your partner, are key. Joe's idea pulls it all together.


And, to the extent that the comments about "you need to learn your business", "everyone wants your contacts to work over" - well, the fish don't just jump into the boat. So even if you start at the bank, what do you have to lose? You still get to learn the business, see if you like it.


There may be a lot of advisor golfers trolling the golf course, don't think you need to worry about that, you can bring your own prospects (friends of existing clients).


Don't think about it too much - this is a business of doing.

Feb 12, 2007 6:07 pm
mranonymous2u:

What makes you think your contacts would want to do business with this jamoke?


One thing that ought to be really for sure is that the people who golf with you won't want YOU to run their money. They've been around the block enough to let you make all your mistakes on someone else's money. That's just the way it is.


Second, how many of the golfers at your club are already working at Mer, SB, UBS or some indy or regional? I don't even mean how many have their money there, I mean how many are brokers/bankers? What is it, a brand new secret that Golf courses are a good place to Flog product/services? You would be most better off finding someone in the club who would be willing to hire you in.


What I didn't see here is what you qualifications to be a broker are (other than that you have been a golf bum your whole life). I didn't see why you wanted to get into THIS business, wouldn't you be at least as successful being a salesman at the local Alfa Romeo, Lambo or Rolls Royce dealership? (I don't mean to say that you are a glorified cabana boy, Matt Dillon).


This is a serious business, about a serious subject that demands serious seriousness from serial seriositors. Subjecting some stroke sum obssessed schmoe to supplications surrounding stock selections surely is seriously surreal!


Stick to swinging stick. Shingle you own Pro Shop, sell sweaters to septagenarians, super sized sweet spot sets to slicers, shorts to swaggering scions of  the superwealthy, secret strong squeezes aside the sand traps to sugardaddies' sweeties and solititious suggestions of status whilst sniggering soto voce at the losers LOFT.


Meanwhile, stay out of my business!


Mr. A



My contacts will want to do business with me, not him.  I am leveraging his reputation and willingness to help me learn the business as he is very successful and looking to bring in a partner.  I don't expect the HNW people I know to give me anything until I develop a track record.  Those people loved me and know my history when it comes to developing relationships, work ethic and being a true professional.  If I do as I did in my previous profession they will come to me. 


Very few local brokers at the club.  I am not going to bulid my business from my club contacts.  Will I use my teaching, sales, golf and people skills I honed in golf?  You bet.  As for working for a member, forget it.  The billionaire I worked for was a little to hands on.  I am done working for somebody else.


Nice generalization on the golfbum.  Guess you don't get out much.  I have many old school pros to thank that for that.  How many billionaires do you know would let a "bum" manage a $40 million private club?  Or entertain and sell memberships to guys like Wayne Huizenga, John Snow, Gaary Drummond, etc. 


Thanks for the advice but I have done all those those things and it is easy and boring.  Your problem with your golf game must be LOFT! 

Feb 12, 2007 6:19 pm

My impression is, you will freak out at the similarities between doing this business and golf - mostly mental, simple but not easy, doing more than thinking, relationship skills, consistency, trust, understanding basic concepts at increasing levels of integrated physical and mental consciousness. Good luck, enjoy!