Fail Like Put Did

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May 25, 2005 7:25 am

I have a good friend--he flys for a major airline.

He spent his life doing entry level work--oh sure the planes got bigger
and more sophisticated, and his schedule got better, but the fact is
that on the last day of his working life he got up, went to the
airport, got into his seat and flew a plane.  Just like he did on the
first day of his working life.

He was well paid and never worked more than 15 days a month.  At the
end he was working "Two on Five off" meaning that he only went to the
airport on Wednesdays, flew somewhere, spent the night and came home on
Thursday.

That, boys and girls, is the epitome of time off for those who value their time off.

At the airline there are also a few pilots doing other things--they
supervise, they train, they schedule, they interview and hire, they are
union reps.  Not being a pilot myself those are all I can think of, but
there are bound to be more "ground" jobs.

According to the logic being used by the bellicose bitchoids on this
forum every guy with a ground job would have that job because they
couldn't make it as a pilot.

The pilots who fly the planes have the easiest pilot job in an airline,
and the brokers who contact the customers have the easiest broker jobs
at a brokerage firm.

The only reason people like Stan and Rightway don't know that is
because they have never been anything but a broker. The vacantness of
their experience does not allow them to know any better.

Joedabrker is a different case.  The pilot analogy doesn't work with Joe.



A good analogy would be a really
good used car salesman on an independent lot on the wrong side of
town.  He sells a lot of cars, but they're used cars and his clients
are the type that buy used cars.  The feature of his lot is a sign that says, "We tote the note."



He applied at the Jag dealership but
their management was too damn stupid to hire him.  So he applied at the
Lexus dealership, but their management was too damn stupid to hire
him.  So he applied at the Ford dealership but their management was too damn stupid to hire him.  Need I go on?



When that happens again and again it is easy to become a
caricature.  Joe has done that, he's a caricature.

Read what he says--he gets absolutely apoplectic about the NASDAQ
meltdown meaning his clients lost their ass.  I would ask why they were
so heavily invested in the NASDAQ in the first place, but what do I
know?

Now he claims that he's beating the S&P by 900 basis points.  No
doubt that is possible, even probable because the tech stocks that did
not just disappear are coming back faster than the S&P.  In other
words he's riding the bubble again and a day will come when Joedabrkr
will be sitting there wondering what happened all over again.

Just look at his forum ID--Joe Da Broker.  It's that gangster machismo
thing, "Look there goes Carmine Da Chin, heading for Joe Da Broker's
house.  I wonder why?"



My point is this.  For you rookies.  Life will be more
interesting to you if you accept responsibilities if they are
offered.  I'll be the first to admit that a top dog broker--a
"heavy hitter"--in a branch office will earn more than the guy or gal
who runs that office.  I will also tell you that that heavy hitter
often looks back at the day when he turned down the invitation and
wishes that he hadn't.



The way it works is this.  Heavy hitters were not always heavy
hitters--they were rising stars.  That is the point where they are
approached with an invitation to step into the world of
administration.  They turn down the offers for many
reasons--mostly having to do with their families and their lifestyle.



Suppose I'm your regional manager.  I ask you if you'd like to
become a branch manager and you say, "Well, maybe.  Tell me more."



I explain that we're looking for somebody to run an office that is in an adjoining state--you're going to have to move.



I go on to say that it always works this way.  You even
acknowledge that you would not be able to stand up one day and walk
into the manager's office and have any respect from the guys and gals
that are sitting out there pointing at you and sneering, "That moron
came and asked me............."



You just have to relocate--there's no other way to pull it off. 
Oh I know, I know there are exceptions.  Sometimes in VERY small
markets a manager is chosen from among the troops.  Watch,
somebody will sneer that I don't know what I'm talking about--it's akin
to saying, "On April 12, 1924 it rained in Timbuktu, you don't know
schidt when you say that it never rains in Timbuktu."



Anyway, that is when most offers are rejected.  For dozens of reasons people do not want to relocate--and that is fine.



My point is this.  It is true that management is made up of people
who were rising stars not superstars.  That does not mean that
they would not have been superstars had they declined the invitation.



Your branch manager was never a superstar--but they damn sure showed
all the signs when somebody invited them to move to a world they didn't
know existed.



You would not even believe the lifestyle of the most senior managers on
Wall Street--Kings and Queens stuff, private jets and the like.



But even down stream things are pretty nice.  It is true that my
W-2s were not as large as heavy hitters but they were big enough to
afford whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted it.



What I--and my peers--had going was this.  Opportunities to
exercise our brains and our creativity.  There is nothing more
boring than spending year after year doing entry level work.



But it's more than having interesting things to do--often they are done
in interesting places.  If a group is going to meet to discuss
something you would think that we could all get together at the NYSE,
or the NASD, or even in one of our firm's conference rooms. 
But  nope, no way Jose.



This brainstorming session needs to be done at The Homestead.  Why
there? Well, becasue we went to Ponte Vedra last time and will be going
to Coronado in the spring.



One of the guys with the chronic sneers routinely mentions bigger paychecks and more free time.



If you added what I put on my expense accounts to my salary it would amaze you.  It certainly amused me.



So, in summary.  If you want to have a working career where you
are on a treadmill doing the same thing year after year after year turn
down the promotion, or be a middle of the roader and never even get the
chance.



But if you enjoy exercising your brain, if you enjoy coaching the new
guys, if you enjoy flying in the front of planes and sitting in the
back of cars you can get much much more of that as a Wall Street
executive than you can as a foot soldier.



When you read somebody sneering that I failed as a broker think to yourself, "I should be so lucky as to fail like Put did."

May 25, 2005 9:51 am
Put Trader:

I have a good friend--he flys for a major airline.

He spent his life doing entry level work--oh sure the planes got bigger
and more sophisticated, and his schedule got better, but the fact is
that on the last day of his working life he got up, went to the
airport, got into his seat and flew a plane.  Just like he did on the
first day of his working life.

He was well paid and never worked more than 15 days a month.  At the
end he was working "Two on Five off" meaning that he only went to the
airport on Wednesdays, flew somewhere, spent the night and came home on
Thursday.

That, boys and girls, is the epitome of time off for those who value their time off.

At the airline there are also a few pilots doing other things--they
supervise, they train, they schedule, they interview and hire, they are
union reps.  Not being a pilot myself those are all I can think of, but
there are bound to be more "ground" jobs.

According to the logic being used by the bellicose bitchoids on this
forum every guy with a ground job would have that job because they
couldn't make it as a pilot.

The pilots who fly the planes have the easiest pilot job in an airline,
and the brokers who contact the customers have the easiest broker jobs
at a brokerage firm.

The only reason people like Stan and Rightway don't know that is
because they have never been anything but a broker. The vacantness of
their experience does not allow them to know any better.



Yes that's right it's the
'vacantness of their experience'.  It couldn't be because they
enjoy what they do, they're good at it, they earn some nice coin, or
they like the fact that they're doing something truly meaningful
working with front-line customers, as opposed to 'management'.

Joedabrker is a different case.  The pilot analogy doesn't work with Joe.



A good analogy would be a really
good used car salesman on an independent lot on the wrong side of
town.  He sells a lot of cars, but they're used cars and his clients
are the type that buy used cars.  The feature of his lot is a sign that says, "We tote the note."



He applied at the Jag dealership but
their management was too damn stupid to hire him.  So he applied at the
Lexus dealership, but their management was too damn stupid to hire
him.  So he applied at the Ford dealership but their management was too damn stupid to hire him.  Need I go on?



When that happens again and again it is easy to become a
caricature.  Joe has done that, he's a caricature.



Oh right you've got it all figured out now.  Dagum it you've got me pinned.  rolls eyes



No brother, it's more like this.  I started out at the Ford
dealership, then moved to the Cadillac dealership.  The guy at the
Jag dealership liked my style so he actually went out and recruited
me.  After quite some time at the Jag dealership I've come to
realize that I can't stand the suffering bureacracy with their
antiquted attitudes and bloated expense structure(see your comment
below about private planes and big w-2's) so I've come to the
conclusion that perhaps I should own my own 'dealership'.



But I know that you fellows that own the old line 'dealership' think
you're the cats meow, and can't conceive anyone would want to do
this.   Well your cheese was moved a long time ago. 
There are technologies out there that your slow moving civil service
minded IT folks won't get around to reviewing much less implementing
for another 10 years because IT 'management' is too busy having steak
lunches at Mortons' with vendor salespeople.

Read what he says--he gets absolutely apoplectic about the NASDAQ
meltdown meaning his clients lost their ass.  I would ask why they were
so heavily invested in the NASDAQ in the first place, but what do I
know?



No Put, my clients ended up fine,
because they refused to drink the internet/tech 'koolaid' put forth by
vaunted major firm pundits such as Mary Meeker and Henry Blodget. 
(Yes part of that great infrastructure at the 'top three' about which
you was nostalgic.)  A few of them griped towards the end that
they were 'only making 20% per year when their friends were making
more, but when the rains came down my clients and I were on dry ground
and happy for it.  That would be part of why my performance has
been pretty decent...the willingness to think critically and question
conventional wisdom put forth by 'the Street'.

Now he claims that he's beating the S&P by 900 basis points.  No
doubt that is possible, even probable because the tech stocks that did
not just disappear are coming back faster than the S&P.  In other
words he's riding the bubble again and a day will come when Joedabrkr
will be sitting there wondering what happened all over again.



No you old fool....no bubbles
here.  We've profited nicely by avoiding them, and then picking up
the real values when they burst.  Have I been perfect? 
Nope.  Bought Lucent around 40, and sold it around 20, but
certainly better than staying along for the whole ride.

Just look at his forum ID--Joe Da Broker.  It's that gangster machismo
thing, "Look there goes Carmine Da Chin, heading for Joe Da Broker's
house.  I wonder why?"



Right.  Have you heard of a
sense of humor my friend?  I'm not even Italian, nor macho. 
And my name isn't Joe.  Stupid.  shakes head



My point is this.  For you rookies.  Life will be more
interesting to you if you accept responsibilities if they are
offered.  I'll be the first to admit that a top dog broker--a
"heavy hitter"--in a branch office will earn more than the guy or gal
who runs that office.  I will also tell you that that heavy hitter
often looks back at the day when he turned down the invitation and
wishes that he hadn't.



The way it works is this.  Heavy hitters were not always heavy
hitters--they were rising stars.  That is the point where they are
approached with an invitation to step into the world of
administration.  They turn down the offers for many
reasons--mostly having to do with their families and their lifestyle.



Yep because they knew that if they
could make it as a 'big hitter', or even moderately successful, that
their lives would be far better than as branch managers having to
kowtow to the big hitters, dealing with compliance issues and staffing
problems, all while mouthing the words that upper management puts on
their monthly script.



Suppose I'm your regional manager.  I ask you if you'd like to
become a branch manager and you say, "Well, maybe.  Tell me more."



No....more like "Thanks, but I
have to enter this order, and then I'm heading out to play golf with my
favorite client.  Enjoy your endless conference calls with New
York and your paperwork.  See YA!"



I explain that we're looking for somebody to run an office that is in an adjoining state--you're going to have to move.



I go on to say that it always works this way.  You even
acknowledge that you would not be able to stand up one day and walk
into the manager's office and have any respect from the guys and gals
that are sitting out there pointing at you and sneering, "That moron
came and asked me............."



You just have to relocate--there's no other way to pull it off. 
Oh I know, I know there are exceptions.  Sometimes in VERY small
markets a manager is chosen from among the troops.  Watch,
somebody will sneer that I don't know what I'm talking about--it's akin
to saying, "On April 12, 1924 it rained in Timbuktu, you don't know
schidt when you say that it never rains in Timbuktu."



No actually I think you're exactly right on this one.  Because most brokers know that BOM's are often 'failed producers'.



Anyway, that is when most offers are rejected.  For dozens of reasons people do not want to relocate--and that is fine.



My point is this.  It is true that management is made up of people
who were rising stars not superstars.  That does not mean that
they would not have been superstars had they declined the invitation.



Your branch manager was never a superstar--but they damn sure showed
all the signs when somebody invited them to move to a world they didn't
know existed.



They showed all the signs of being
politically correct, dressing nicely, and being someone who upper
management could manipulate to follow the firm's priorities, which are
frequently out of alignment with the client's priorities, not to
mention the advisors.  "Hey just get on the phone and sell...don't
think too much about it.  Let's put some lipstick on that pig."



You would not even believe the lifestyle of the most senior managers on
Wall Street--Kings and Queens stuff, private jets and the like.



Hmmm....that wouldnt' have
anything to do with declining advisor payouts and rising fees for
clients, not to mention the proliferation of expensive(and very
profitable) proprietary products such as in-house hedge funds, would
it? Would it have anything to do with the constant stream of IB-run
closed end funds the last few years?  (also a very high-margin
product for the firm, not always good for the client....)



But even down stream things are pretty nice.  It is true that my
W-2s were not as large as heavy hitters but they were big enough to
afford whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted it.



I'm sure they were, and I'm glad
you enjoyed it.  I'm sure you were better than many branch
managers, and actually did some serious work to add value.  I
sincerely mean that....it shows in some, and I emphasize SOME, of your
posts.  Nonetheless, I believe that 'added value' from management
is rare on the street these days, at least in the big firms.  Too
bloated.  Too many useless product VP's and marketing managers
drawing large salaries and padding their expense accounts....running
'training meetings' to 'inform' advisors about new products that are
unproven and often useless.   But that's just my opinion......



What I--and my peers--had going was this.  Opportunities to
exercise our brains and our creativity.  There is nothing more
boring than spending year after year doing entry level work.



You've been too far away from production for far too long if you think it's boring and monotonous.



But it's more than having interesting things to do--often they are done
in interesting places.  If a group is going to meet to discuss
something you would think that we could all get together at the NYSE,
or the NASD, or even in one of our firm's conference rooms. 
But  nope, no way Jose.



This brainstorming session needs to be done at The Homestead.  Why
there? Well, becasue we went to Ponte Vedra last time and will be going
to Coronado in the spring.



One of the guys with the chronic sneers routinely mentions bigger paychecks and more free time.



If you added what I put on my expense accounts to my salary it would amaze you.  It certainly amused me.



Regarding the several paragraphs
above....see my previous comments about bloated expenses and litle
added value.  Sorta proves my point, I think.  I'm glad you
had a good life Put, I really am.  But, somebody-as in
advisors-did a lot of hard work to pay for that nice expense
account.  What have you and your kind really done to help
them?  Very little I suspect, relative to the costs incurred.



So, in summary.  If you want to have a working career where you
are on a treadmill doing the same thing year after year after year turn
down the promotion, or be a middle of the roader and never even get the
chance.



But if you enjoy exercising your brain, if you enjoy coaching the new
guys, if you enjoy flying in the front of planes and sitting in the
back of cars you can get much much more of that as a Wall Street
executive than you can as a foot soldier.



Yes and despite all that highly
paid 'coaching the new guys' our failure rates in the business for new
advisors are staggering.......hmmmmmmm.



When you read somebody sneering that I failed as a broker think to yourself, "I should be so lucky as to fail like Put did."

No I'm sure it has been a nice
life.  I merely choose a different path.  Sneering comes when
you pontificate about how you KNOW things should be on the front lines,
when clearly you've proven time and time again you have NO CLUE what
really happens when you're belly to belly with a client.  Much has
changed since you were in production.   You know we stopped
using paper tapes for quotes, right?


May 25, 2005 10:22 am

After reading Put's long winded post, it is clearly evdient that he is extremely insecure... When you read between the lines, his claim of superior knowledge, intelligence, and success would initially strike me as arrogant ( right, right, arrogance is only if you havent done it...). But when you delve more closely, its is insecurity. I liken it to the muscle bound jock at the gym, with the weight lifter body and the apparently high self confidence. But what all the honey's on the treadmill dont realize is this guy works out 3 hours a day because he is extremely insecure. Kinda like Put, where you can be assured that every morning when we check this site, there will be an entriely fresh, ling winded attempt by Put to gather attention to his attempts at .... what... validation??? spreading his 'wisdom'??? justifying his career choice??


Does anyone notice that he feels the need to start entirely new topics in order to substantiate his earlier claims? Put, you have posted that same thread with minor variations multiple times in the past month.


Put, move on buddy, we dont care about your need to validate your choices in life. If they worked out fine.. Your posts are becoming monotonous with the body the same and a few variations thrown in there....

May 25, 2005 10:24 am

this is the highlight of the old man's day... Right now as he is reading this his blood pressure is rising because he is so excited to get some atention. A long winded reply will be posted in about 5-8 minutes....

May 25, 2005 2:43 pm

Gee, "never been anything but a broker"? I came to this industry at 35, and I guess I have that Series 24 for no reason....

May 25, 2005 2:45 pm

"After reading Put's long winded post,..."



Well, it's probably impossible to tell the fable about how a "successful" producer would give up the bigger paycheck and move from a town he enjoyed because being a "traveling manager" is such a step up in life just a few words..