EJ vs. SB

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Nov 30, 2005 2:54 pm

I'm thinking about getting into the industry and wanted to know what  the main differences were between starting out at EJ versus starting out at Smith Barney.  Thanks!

Nov 30, 2005 3:00 pm

why dont you take the time and review the posts from the past few months on these topics... Then come back with any questions.

Nov 30, 2005 10:01 pm

EJ vs. Smith Barney


Chevy vs. Rolls Royce

Dec 1, 2005 10:15 am

Hey Webster - what is the average production at Jones?


I'll give you a freebie and tell you that SSB's was $450k+ last time I saw it (I would assume that is around twice the amount at Jones).


Can you put a client with $100k in a fee-based investment?


Can you sell futures?

Dec 1, 2005 10:56 am

BR,



I do not believe average production comparisons between EJ and SB would be comparing apples to apples. Because of Jones growth and SB's lack of growth the average tenure at Jones is much lower. I think a fairer comparison would be a the average 1 year producer at Jones verses the average 1 year producer at SB, the average 5 year producer at Jones verses the average 5 year producer at SB and so on. What is your average 5 year producer making? Your average ten year producer?



Your comment regarding $100k in fee based and the hood ornament in the above picture of Smith Barney go hand in hand.



BPD

Dec 1, 2005 11:57 am

BR-


How many people really do futures business anymore anyway?  How many clients even consider them?  I don't think that makes SB better than jones by any stretch.


At SB you get a broader range of products and perhaps some more sophisticated capabilities.  You also get the wirehouse culture and conflicts of interest, and the baggage that comes with that.


At Jones, you do have some of the 'cult-like' issues, no doubt, and apparently technology leaves a little to be desired.  However, too, I think there are a core of good people there who do care about their clients well being.


I do wonder sometimes, though, if these guys really know/realize how much the GP's are making off them...


BPD and Webster-ya gotta admit the pictorial analysis-while funny-is a bit of a stretch, no?  A Corvette?  Maybe a Mustang.

Dec 1, 2005 12:15 pm

That was my point, joe - simply throwing out an example.  I know futures aren't a major choice by many producers, but it's there if they want it.  Again, just an example.


BPD-enlighten me (because I honestly couldn't tell you), what is the average production of a 1/5/10 year rep at Jones?


At SSB, you'd be looking at approximately $60/300/600k respectively, as of the last stats I've seen.  it's been a while, so it is probably just a bit higher.


Once again, Jones is not a terrible place, but if you have the opportunity to come into an environment that focuses on many facets of the business as opposed to a handful, go for it.  If Jones is great for you and you like their approach, work there and enjoy it, and I'll be happy for you.

Dec 1, 2005 12:42 pm

One of them is a good firm to work for, and the other is Edward Jones.

Dec 1, 2005 12:58 pm
Starka:

One of them is a good firm to work for, and the other is Edward Jones.



Hey man you been busy?  You never responded to my last IM several weeks ago!

Dec 1, 2005 4:57 pm

Joe,


Lets face it.. Starka just doesnt like you. In fact, none of us do... Do us a favor and leave the business...You're an embarassment to our profession...

Dec 1, 2005 5:43 pm

It would seem to me one is a real live brokerage firm with a wide array of products and services that tries to serve informed, wealthy investors and the other is an Amway clone (complete with trip contests featuring business meetings) sales force for a mutual fund family that sets up shop in strip malls and tries to serve smaller, ill-informed investors WHILE doing a great deal of bogus moral preening. Think Dean Witter with their old "sock and stocks" business model.



What that too harsh?

Dec 1, 2005 8:56 pm

Nope.. sounds about right... I appreciate the bluntness there Mikey...

Dec 2, 2005 1:37 am
JWright:

I'm thinking about getting into the industry and wanted to know what the main differences were between starting out at EJ versus starting out at Smith Barney. Thanks!





JWright,



This business is very difficult to break into. You want to make sure that you choose a firm that will give you the best chance for success early on. Most of the larger firms are looking for producing transfers. Most of the larger firms will also make you go after the High Net Worth segment which every firm out there is going after. As a "New-New" this can be a daunting task regardless of your sales ability and/or contacts. I have seen several great people fail because they did not have the required asset level at say the two year mark. For the larger firms you are person in a cubicle and hey if you're not cutting it after a couple of years "We'll gladly let you go, transfer your assets to the senior brokers in the branch and replace you with another "new-new"". Depending on your branch manager your training at a large wire house may be "Sonny here's the phone book, now get in your cubicle and make 125 dials a day."



At Jones their training is some of the best in the industry. Even the folks on this board who have left Jones and are Jones Nay Sayers would admit that the training they got at Jones was VERY good and had they started at any other firm they may not be in this business today. The folks that the large wires house are not going after such as the middle income, middle net worth folks are a great place to start building a business. Many of my largest clients today came from a $2,000 IRA that I set up early on my career. This kind of an account would be shunned at Smith Barney. At Jones you are not just a seat in a cubicle, you are an entire Edward Jones office. You will have your own assistant that supports only you. At SB, you will not have your own assistant for many, many years if at all. SB is a great firm but I do not necessarily think the best one for someone just starting out.



Take a look at this sight for further info:



http://www.edwardjonesopportunity.com/ir/enUS/nonbroker/inc ome.html



Good luck in your decision. Either way you go you'll be with a great firm and in a great industry!



BPD

Dec 2, 2005 9:51 am

BPD - you r definitely a home ofc hack for jones.  Jones does a great job in training to pass the series 7, to present a mutual fund and to door knock.  They r great at that.  The best part of your story is it's a great place to start; well what happens after I start?  You make it sound like jones doesn't have requirements; theyll dump you as quick as anybody in the business for production issues as well as other minor issues (like not agreeing w/the a-share only for all clients philosophy). 


Frankly, if you r just starting out and you want a name behind you - look at all the wirehouses and get an idea of how they want you to build your book.  The days of the phonebook is gone, anybody pushing that one approach you need to avoid.  Just like a firm that forces you to only door knock.  Cold calling, networking, door knocking should all be utilized.  On that note, one of the best training programs I seen and w/ a firm that has open platforms for YOU and the CLIENT is the other St. Louis firm - AG Edwards.  Hands down, a much better overall training program and firm than the CULT.

Dec 2, 2005 10:10 am

BPD-that was the best post I've seen from you.  Good advice.


I agree, either way, you'll get good training.  You'll simply have to look at what types of products and clients you want to work with.  I know many Jones reps that work with HNW clients and have large books and they've thrived under their model.  I also know some that have $100M+ books and only generate $300-400k/year in production. 


It will completely depend on what platform and name you want to be working under.  SSB hires fewer trainees than any wire, so if you do receive an offer, it is a huge compliment and a larger percentage of their trainees will make it through the first tough years (compared to other wires that are not as selective), since they are so selective.


As BPD said, you'll get good training either way.  Talk to both and see what you think.

Dec 2, 2005 11:43 am

BigPayDay:

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Most of the larger firms will also make you go after the High Net Worth segment which every firm out there is going after.



 


While Jones, in their strip mall office space, is happy to send you out like a latter-day Fuller Brush man bothering people in their homes and offices with unsolicited “cold walking” tours to try to open those lucrative and coveted $2000 IRAs.


 


BigPayDay:

 


 


For the larger firms you are person in a cubicle and hey if you're not cutting it after a couple of years "We'll gladly let you go, transfer your assets to the senior brokers in the branch and replace you with another "new-new"".


 



 


While at Jones they promise to never fire you (or starve you out) because of low production. Those dozens of closed Jones offices next to the local Subway are just illusions. And, better still, should you desire after a few years to leave Jones for another firm, they’ll do everything possible to make to move easy. Why, they’ll even send in people to make sure you don’t have the burden of taking any of your clients with you.


 


BigPayDay:

Depending on your branch manager your training at a large wire house may be "Sonny here's the phone book, now get in your cubicle and make 125 dials a day."



 


Which is completely different than Jones giving you a neighborhood map ad telling you to harass people at their homes.


 


BigPayDay:

At Jones their training is some of the best in the industry.



 


Major wirehouses, like SB, otoh, simply suck at training. Yeah, that’s the ticket. Say, wanna meet my wife, Morgan Fairchild?


 


BigPayDay:

 


The folks that the large wires house are not going after such as the middle income, middle net worth folks are a great place to start building a business.



 


That’s where Jones’ patented “Sell American Funds to the yokel with no real money” sales plan comes in.


 


BigPayDay:

Many of my largest clients today came from a $2,000 IRA that I set up early on my career.


 



 


And many millionaires owe their fortunes to a $2 lottery ticket. That doesn’t mean it’s a good bet to hang your career on it.


 


BigPayDay:

This kind of an account would be shunned at Smith Barney.



 


 


Those dufuses at SB haven’t figured out that the key is to have a gazillion tiny accounts that you never service. Then again, since you banged every last dollar they had into A share funds and “Touchdown” bonds, what’s there to service?


 


 


BigPayDay:

 At Jones you are not just a seat in a cubicle, you are an entire Edward Jones office.



 


Conveniently located next to your clients, the nail salon workers and grocery baggers.


 


BigPayDay:

 You will have your own assistant that supports only you.



 


Because heaven knows, with all those $2000 IRAs you’re opening, you’ll be able to fill an assistant’s entire work day. As a bonus, since she’s seen dozens of guys go through the seat your in, she knows where you should submit your resume for you next high profile job.


 


 


Seriously, pal, I wouldn’t consider Jones if you put a gun to my head. Wirehouses aren’t all sweetness and light, (there is no such place, btw) and this is a tough business to get into (that’s why it pays well if you succeed) but do your best to start out in a REAL brokerage firm where you can see the widest array of products and services and rub elbows with senior producers who know this business is about more than being a salesman for a particular mutual fund family and selling 30 year bonds.


 


If you were considering selling cars, would you want to sell Kias or Jags?





















Dec 2, 2005 11:51 am
Starka:

One of them is a good firm to work for, and the other is Edward Jones.



perfect.  nuff said. 

Dec 2, 2005 11:54 am
BigPayDay:
JWright:

I'm thinking about getting into the industry and wanted to know what  the main differences were between starting out at EJ versus starting out at Smith Barney.  Thanks!




JWright,

This business is very difficult to break into. You want to make sure that you choose a firm that will give you the best chance for success early on. Most of the larger firms are looking for producing transfers. Most of the larger firms will also make you go after the High Net Worth segment which every firm out there is going after. As a "New-New" this can be a daunting task regardless of your sales ability and/or contacts. I have seen several great people fail because they did not have the required asset level at say the two year mark. For the larger firms you are person in a cubicle and hey if you're not cutting it after a couple of years "We'll gladly let you go, transfer your assets to the senior brokers in the branch and replace you with another "new-new"". Depending on your branch manager your training at a large wire house may be "Sonny here's the phone book, now get in your cubicle and make 125 dials a day."

At Jones their training is some of the best in the industry. Even the folks on this board who have left Jones and are Jones Nay Sayers would admit that the training they got at Jones was VERY good and had they started at any other firm they may not be in this business today. The folks that the large wires house are not going after such as the middle income, middle net worth folks are a great place to start building a business. Many of my largest clients today came from a $2,000 IRA that I set up early on my career. This kind of an account would be shunned at Smith Barney. At Jones you are not just a seat in a cubicle, you are an entire Edward Jones office. You will have your own assistant that supports only you. At SB, you will not have your own assistant for many, many years if at all. SB is a great firm but I do not necessarily think the best one for someone just starting out.

Take a look at this sight for further info:

http://www.edwardjonesopportunity.com/ir/enUS/nonbroker/inc ome.html

Good luck in your decision. Either way you go you'll be with a great firm and in a great industry!



Get real.  Answer me this does anyone leave Smith Barney to go to Edward Jones (NO).  does anyone leave Ed Jones to go to SM or RayJay ???  YES YES YES.  I think your brain must have frozen knocking on doors in the cold.

BPD

Dec 2, 2005 1:30 pm

Thanks everyone for the replies!  So what is the typical fate of the unsuccessful two year broker who has either A) Quit or B) been given the boot from his company?  Does he end up working as a teller for the local bank?  Just a thought.......

Dec 2, 2005 2:42 pm

There are a million different firms that all have different production and asset goals for reps to hit.  Just depends on where you are.