EDJ Adv Solutions and Chase Strategic Portfolio

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Jan 7, 2010 12:17 am

Hey all,

Had client walk in today and plop down a printed proposal for a Chase Strategic Portfolio account recommended to him by the friendly advisor at his bank.  This may have already been discussed, but this platform is identical in every way to the Edward Jones advisory solutions proposals.  Both firms are using the exact same backend software/provider.

The fee was a little higher, 50MM minimum like EDJ just moved to, and the funds were different.  As you might expect the majority of funds were JPMorgan.

That's all.  Just thought those at both firms might like to know you're working with the same thing.

Cheers!


Jan 7, 2010 12:30 am

Both bill monthly in arrears? I hadn't found that in any other fee-based solution. Neither had I found the option to use one of four different pre-selected portfolio's within a risk-tolerance platform plus an open-ended, advisor-driven platform.



Jan 7, 2010 8:14 am
LockEDJ:

Both bill monthly in arrears? I hadn't found that in any other fee-based solution. Neither had I found the option to use one of four different pre-selected portfolio's within a risk-tolerance platform plus an open-ended, advisor-driven platform.





I thought most places bill monthly in arrears. 

Jan 7, 2010 8:23 am

I thought everyone billed in advance

Jan 7, 2010 8:29 am
chief123:

I thought everyone billed in advance



well, what the hell do I know? 

Jan 7, 2010 8:41 am

LOL.

Yeah, pretty much everything else I've seen is quarterly in advance (which, by the way, is something we're drilled on at Jones - it's supposed to be one of our competitive advantages [ducks]).
Jan 7, 2010 9:58 am

I bill in arrears.  Quarterly.  They also get a detailed statement of what they are paying me and for what.


Jan 7, 2010 10:00 am
wsubob:

Hey all,

Had client walk in today and plop down a printed proposal for a Chase Strategic Portfolio account recommended to him by the friendly advisor at his bank.  This may have already been discussed, but this platform is identical in every way to the Edward Jones advisory solutions proposals.  Both firms are using the exact same backend software/provider.

The fee was a little higher, 50MM minimum like EDJ just moved to, and the funds were different.  As you might expect the majority of funds were JPMorgan.

That's all.  Just thought those at both firms might like to know you're working with the same thing.

Cheers!


 
Was Ron upset that you were stealing his clients?
Jan 7, 2010 10:45 am
wsubob:

Hey all,

Had client walk in today and plop down a printed proposal for a Chase Strategic Portfolio account recommended to him by the friendly advisor at his bank.  This may have already been discussed, but this platform is identical in every way to the Edward Jones advisory solutions proposals.  Both firms are using the exact same backend software/provider.

The fee was a little higher, 50MM minimum like EDJ just moved to, and the funds were different.  As you might expect the majority of funds were JPMorgan.

That's all.  Just thought those at both firms might like to know you're working with the same thing.

Cheers!


 
I have worked at both places and the funds being used are completely different, so who really cares if the software printout looks the same. Most advisors use Morningstar XRay to look at portfolio's. Is that a problem also ?
 
As you said, CSP uses a number of JPMorgan funds (which are average to below average) and I don't recall EDJ using any, maybe Core Bond. I don't use the CSP at all because it completely handcuffs the advisor from any input after the initial model selection. We have other managed accounts that have a wider variety of options and flexibility than CSP. But as mlgone said, I stick with $100 DCA accounts into Roths and refer the big dogs to other firms.
 
The fee under 250k is 1.6% and CSP is nothing more than a glorified Asset Allocation fund. You could put the client in a JPM asset allocation fund, get the same return, and save them .6% using a C Share.


Jan 7, 2010 10:50 am

I was under the impression that Advisory Solutions was doing fee based "the Jones Way" and that no one else would do it the way that Jones would do it.

Jan 7, 2010 10:55 am
iceco1d:
Moraen:
LockEDJ:

Both bill monthly in arrears? I hadn't found that in any other fee-based solution. Neither had I found the option to use one of four different pre-selected portfolio's within a risk-tolerance platform plus an open-ended, advisor-driven platform.



I thought most places bill monthly in arrears. 





 
In the RIA world, doesn't it have regulatory implications if you bill in advance vs in arrears?  And even moreso if you bill more than 6 months in advance?
 
Maybe that was just my state and not the SEC, but if you bill in advance you have extra reporting requirements, etc.
 
Most big firms probably don't care, so they bill in advance and take advantage of holding the money.  Smaller RIA firms probably don't care, so they bill in arrears to save the hassle.
 
I could be totally wrong on this...



You are correct about the regulatory implications.  And what you say makes sense about the bigger firms holding onto the money.

Jan 7, 2010 11:09 am
noggin:

I was under the impression that Advisory Solutions was doing fee based "the Jones Way" and that no one else would do it the way that Jones would do it.

 

Using the same proposal software doesn't equal doing it the same way as someone else.  10 years ago, had someone even thought about something like Advisory Solutions, Jones would have spent more time writing the programming themselves and delayed the implementation for a long time.  Today, they buy software and customize it. 
 
I have yet to find anyone that bills monthly in arrears.  Of course I've never tried to steal any of Moraen's clients...yet.
 
You corner a Jones GP about Advisory and ask what really makes it different than anyone else and they'll always default to the billing and maybe the rebalancing.  I've never been able to get a good answer from anyone how that works other places.  So, I just choose not to tell people that it's an incredibly unique process.  It's a better process than what I can do on my own, but certainly not incredibly unique. 
Jan 7, 2010 11:47 am

We use PNC Financial for our wrap program, just like plenty of other institutions.  Now, our "wrap" program is not too much unlike other "wrap" programs.  Many people at Jones get this confused with the other managed money programs at other firms.  Yes, we bill in arrears (plenty of others do this), yes, we re-balance dynamically (plenty of others do this), and yes, we have a very good process for evaluating funds for the program (and again, plenty of others do this).

 
It is a nice "total" package of features, but is not as unique as Jones likes to tell us. 
Jan 7, 2010 11:50 am
Spaceman Spiff:


 
I have yet to find anyone that bills monthly in arrears.  Of course I've never tried to steal any of Moraen's clients...yet.  



Well, get on it.  I still have some accounts under $50k that need to go!

Jan 7, 2010 12:28 pm

You send me the names, and I'll warm up the ACAT machine!  We'll call it a Goodknight from afar. 

Jan 7, 2010 2:31 pm
Moraen:
Spaceman Spiff:



 
I have yet to find anyone that bills monthly in arrears.  Of course I've never tried to steal any of Moraen's clients...yet.
 



Well, get on it.  I still have some accounts under $50k that need to go!

 

 
I got dibs on all the CD buyers!
Jan 7, 2010 3:23 pm
Moraen:
iceco1d:
Moraen:
LockEDJ:

Both bill monthly in arrears? I hadn't found that in any other fee-based solution. Neither had I found the option to use one of four different pre-selected portfolio's within a risk-tolerance platform plus an open-ended, advisor-driven platform.



I thought most places bill monthly in arrears. 





 
In the RIA world, doesn't it have regulatory implications if you bill in advance vs in arrears?  And even moreso if you bill more than 6 months in advance?
 
Maybe that was just my state and not the SEC, but if you bill in advance you have extra reporting requirements, etc.
 
Most big firms probably don't care, so they bill in advance and take advantage of holding the money.  Smaller RIA firms probably don't care, so they bill in arrears to save the hassle.
 
I could be totally wrong on this...



You are correct about the regulatory implications.  And what you say makes sense about the bigger firms holding onto the money.


Its not when you bill, but what you bill for that has the regulatory Implications. When Filling form ADV the RIA has to select what they are charging a fee for. Most firms charge up front so they have the money to use towards operations.
Jan 7, 2010 3:28 pm
OntheEdge:
Moraen:
iceco1d:
Moraen:
LockEDJ:

Both bill monthly in arrears? I hadn't found that in any other fee-based solution. Neither had I found the option to use one of four different pre-selected portfolio's within a risk-tolerance platform plus an open-ended, advisor-driven platform.



I thought most places bill monthly in arrears. 





 
In the RIA world, doesn't it have regulatory implications if you bill in advance vs in arrears?  And even moreso if you bill more than 6 months in advance?
 
Maybe that was just my state and not the SEC, but if you bill in advance you have extra reporting requirements, etc.
 
Most big firms probably don't care, so they bill in advance and take advantage of holding the money.  Smaller RIA firms probably don't care, so they bill in arrears to save the hassle.
 
I could be totally wrong on this...



You are correct about the regulatory implications.  And what you say makes sense about the bigger firms holding onto the money.


Its not when you bill, but what you bill for that has the regulatory Implications. When Filling form ADV the RIA has to select what they are charging a fee for. Most firms charge up front so they have the money to use towards operations.



There is a place on the ADV.  If you are billing in advance, you cannot bill more than 6 months in advance if it will be more than $500. 

Jan 7, 2010 3:31 pm

You can bill six months in advance over $500.  Just in doing so you are required to send an accounted balance sheet to the State Securities Administrator for review.

Jan 7, 2010 7:53 pm

1:  Noggin.  Every time I start to forget you are an idiot you set me straight.

 
2:  B24.  Don't want to pick a fight here but you keep referring to our "wrap" program.  Am I sensing you are getting bitter with Jones or do you have a "different" definiton of "wrap"?
 
3:  I hear lots of complaints about many different advisory programs on this site.  Most of them revolve around not being able to select securities or do the rebalancing yourself.  I cannot even imagine having a decent amount of dollars or accounts in an advisory program and having enough time to do this yourself.  Frankly, I am starting to have problems timeblocking the required annual reviews much less monkeying with allocations.