Earnings for new EJ IR's

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Jul 15, 2005 6:44 pm

Before posting to a new system, I try to read the existing posts to get a feel for the culture. 


Now that I am reasonably certain that there are some EJ folks and a solid mix of others, I'd like to know what an avg new EJ rep makes when building their business from the ground up. 


I've read the book from cover to cover, and I see what year 1 earnings avg.  What I want to know are year 2 and year 3 averages, particularly in rural areas that have been identified as having good market potential by the company (they wouldn't let me start up in the town I live in, as it was already "full").


Thanks!


Jul 16, 2005 10:45 am

Pm and we will talk about it.

Jul 16, 2005 11:26 am
noggin:

Pm and we will talk about it.




Be very careful of the Jones haters on this forum--and the Jones syncophats for that matter.



The bottom line is you're asking complete strangers for advice. He holds some securities licenses, but mostly he just

runs errands for his older brother, and monitors the website.



He's the "Rick Blain" character as well as a

host of others. If you can get past the incredibly immature

nature of that website you will find that Rick Blain and Roger

Thornhill use the same phrases, misspell the same words and so forth.



Add the fact that ole Roger went and modified the website and you have a clue too big to ignore.



Then there's the reference to Cobalt boats--made in Kansas, the same exact place where originates.



How about the coincidence that Roger Thornhill is a Cary Grant

character and Rick Blaine is a Humphrey Bogart character. Two old

movie movie stars--legendary roles. Does it make sense that the

individual using Rick Blane with a picture might also be Roger

Thornhill with a picture? How many of you are using characters

from old movies as your ID on either forum.



Why do I figure he's the younger brother instead of the older

brother? Well, because the older brother seems to be somewhat

accomplished--for a guy stuck in Kansas. Among the information

that he posts about himself if that he's a Jayhawk.



Rober, on the other hand, all but brags that while he found the

freshman year to be too difficult he has been able to make money taking

orders for life insurance policies.



This sixty year old man does not believe that people with college degrees pretend to be people without them.



Anyway--when you read Roger Thornhill think of the kid brother who

failed out of his freshman year. Initally he ran to his brother

for advice on what to say in his "Lt. General Rick Blaine"

personna--but after saying things like, "You should ask questions" or

"You should plan your day" he has developed the line of BS that so many

of the nimrods fall for.



Go back and read this stuff. Who other than me is offering advice

that is more specific than "Plan your day" or "Ask questions" or "Read

the contract before you sign it."



That they sign off with "Good Luck" does not mean that the sentences that preceeded the "Good Luck" were worth reading.



Indulge me for a moment.



You're being offered a job. The potential employer hands you a

non-compete agreement. How in the world do you say "I want to

show this to my attorney" without signalling that you do not have long

term intentions?



Additionally, there are two distinct industries being represented on

this board. If you're going to work for an insurance company,

good for you but keep in mind that it's not the same thing as the

securities industry. They are as different as day and night.



On the other hand if you're fortunate enough to have actually had a

full service broker sponsor you for Series 7 you are in the securities

industry. Not Series 6, not Series 62--Series 7.



It is where credility is so incredibly important and where even the forty year olds find the going to be rough.



Fools like Roger, and insurance types like Mojo, have no idea what it's

like to work in a place like AG Edwards--none, nada, zip. A good

analogy would be a guy who sells used cars on one of those "We tote the

note" type car lots telling you that he knows what it's like to be the

number one salesman at the local Benz dealership.



This is why I am not going to play the gottcha game with them.

Only a fool would engage in a series of questions about what they do

for a living developed by somebody who has no clue to what they do, and

then allow the person with no clue to decide if the questions were

answered correctly or not.



Mojo is no more qualified to ask me about my job than I am to ask him

about his. What I do know is that he is an insurance salesman,

and that most insurance salesmen wish they were stockbrokers.



The heirarchy, the caste system, the major league or minor league deal.

Jul 16, 2005 11:56 am
Put Trader:
noggin:

Pm and we will talk about it.




Be very careful of the Jones haters on this forum--and the Jones syncophats for that matter.



The bottom line is you're asking complete strangers for advice. He holds some securities licenses, but mostly he just

runs errands for his older brother, and monitors the website.



He's the "Rick Blain" character as well as a

host of others. If you can get past the incredibly immature

nature of that website you will find that Rick Blain and Roger

Thornhill use the same phrases, misspell the same words and so forth.



Add the fact that ole Roger went and modified the website and you have a clue too big to ignore.



Then there's the reference to Cobalt boats--made in Kansas, the same exact place where originates.



How about the coincidence that Roger Thornhill is a Cary Grant

character and Rick Blaine is a Humphrey Bogart character. Two old

movie movie stars--legendary roles. Does it make sense that the

individual using Rick Blane with a picture might also be Roger

Thornhill with a picture? How many of you are using characters

from old movies as your ID on either forum.



Why do I figure he's the younger brother instead of the older

brother? Well, because the older brother seems to be somewhat

accomplished--for a guy stuck in Kansas. Among the information

that he posts about himself if that he's a Jayhawk.



Rober, on the other hand, all but brags that while he found the

freshman year to be too difficult he has been able to make money taking

orders for life insurance policies.



This sixty year old man does not believe that people with college degrees pretend to be people without them.



Anyway--when you read Roger Thornhill think of the kid brother who

failed out of his freshman year. Initally he ran to his brother

for advice on what to say in his "Lt. General Rick Blaine"

personna--but after saying things like, "You should ask questions" or

"You should plan your day" he has developed the line of BS that so many

of the nimrods fall for.



Go back and read this stuff. Who other than me is offering advice

that is more specific than "Plan your day" or "Ask questions" or "Read

the contract before you sign it."



That they sign off with "Good Luck" does not mean that the sentences that preceeded the "Good Luck" were worth reading.



Indulge me for a moment.



You're being offered a job. The potential employer hands you a

non-compete agreement. How in the world do you say "I want to

show this to my attorney" without signalling that you do not have long

term intentions?



Additionally, there are two distinct industries being represented on

this board. If you're going to work for an insurance company,

good for you but keep in mind that it's not the same thing as the

securities industry. They are as different as day and night.



On the other hand if you're fortunate enough to have actually had a

full service broker sponsor you for Series 7 you are in the securities

industry. Not Series 6, not Series 62--Series 7.



It is where credility is so incredibly important and where even the forty year olds find the going to be rough.



Fools like Roger, and insurance types like Mojo, have no idea what it's

like to work in a place like AG Edwards--none, nada, zip. A good

analogy would be a guy who sells used cars on one of those "We tote the

note" type car lots telling you that he knows what it's like to be the

number one salesman at the local Benz dealership.



This is why I am not going to play the gottcha game with them.

Only a fool would engage in a series of questions about what they do

for a living developed by somebody who has no clue to what they do, and

then allow the person with no clue to decide if the questions were

answered correctly or not.



Mojo is no more qualified to ask me about my job than I am to ask him

about his. What I do know is that he is an insurance salesman,

and that most insurance salesmen wish they were stockbrokers.



The heirarchy, the caste system, the major league or minor league deal.






To quote the Bard: "Methinks thou dost protest too much....."



I have 'lived' in the 'major wirehouse world' for nearly 14

years. There are a few smart folks over there on the 'dark side'

but not me anymore. But-the 'big lie' that the major firms and

their denizens like Put want to to believe is that Mother Merill, Smith

Barney(or whatever they're calling themselves this year, Citigroup

Financial Services, Salomon Smith Barney Rubble, whatever), Morgan

Stanley(DeanWitterDiscover Socks and Stocks) and UBS(after 400 mil in

advertising clients still call them Paine Webber) is where all the big

talent and top brains are.



Bullhockey.



All you have to do is look at the economics of various 'alternate

channels' in the indy and regional world, and you realize that a

successful producer will make more money and have more freedom

there. There is very little in the way of 'infrastructure' that

you can't either get for free from your b/d, or buy if you really need

it. The big firms waste a ton of money on sh*te their advisors

don't even need or use, and their clients don't care about.



Yes there are some great minds on the dark side, but there's also a ton of red tape and useless overhead-such as our friend Put.



You've offered some good insight on the tests, Put, and now and then

your political views on conservatives vs liberals strike a chord with

me. But-you have very little in the way of qualification(from

first hand experience) to hold forth on what it takes to be a

successful advisor. Leave the advising to those who have

succeeded in the real world, not in the politics of administration.



As for your comments regarding Roger and Mojo...I frankly find them

both to be extremely intelligent, and suspect that if they wanted to

subject themselves to the torture of working for a 'major' firm-with

all the attendant bullsh*t and institutionalized mediocrity, that they

would probably be extremely successful, at least until they left

because they couldn't stand the red tape any longer.



The proper use of life(and health disability) insurance is a topic at

least as complicated as most investment sectors, and frankly the

'major' firms do an absolutely HORRIBLE job of supporting that

business. I've found a few knowledgeable folks on staff when I

needed help with a case, but more often then not they didn't know

enough to suceed selling/marketing insurance on the front lines, so

instead they took a job in Merrill/SmithBarney/AGE/Morgan Stanley's

back office helping brokers design and quote policies. So the

firms give you lousy support on the product line and then take a HUGE

percentage of your commish if you manage to close the case DESPITE THEM!



Roger and Mojo, on the other hand, understand that stuff down

cold....and are sufficiently successful that they would never consider

taking a step down to work in what you might refer to as 'the major

leagues'. It would be a pay cut. I've learned more from

reading in the last year than I have from

wirehouse training programs in the last 15 years. And you can

take that to the bank. Real information, not 'theory' put forth

by some turd who couldn't make a living advising clients, so now they

try to teach others how to do it.



Life insurance, too, is something that nearly everyone needs, almost

nobody has enough, and they often have the wrong kind of coverage that

was sold to them by some amateur.



Roger, too, does know a few more things about the investment side of the business than you give him credit for.



'nuf said.





Jul 16, 2005 12:15 pm
joedabrkr:





'nuf said.








Joe is such a lightweight that Roger and Mojo impress him--OK, Barnham was right.



The "indy" side is perfectly viable--I cannot recall mentioning it at all.



The fact is that there is a world of difference between what happens in
a Merrill Lynch branch and what goes on in a MetLife office.



There is also a world of difference between what it takes to make a living in the two environments.



With insurance the process is to "Take an ap"--which means sit down and
ask the suspect if they've ever experienced dizziness when they stand
up quickly, stuff like that.



It's as big a no brainer as one of those guys who work for
wholesalers--they go from store to store checking to see how many of
this and how many of that are needed to fill up the shelves.



The AL Williams philosphy of "Buy term and invest the rest" is most
appropriate for most people.  Using life insurance as an
investment vehicle is ridiculous.



I know, I know--COLI, BOLI, disability and all the rest.  Fine,
there's a market for that too.  If you work at Merrill and come
across a guy who wants to do a COLI deal, put on your insurance hat and
do it.  Don't have the expertise?  Call in somebody who does.



You can't do that in reverse if you work at an insurance company. 
If a numbnuts such as Roger encounters somebody like me, who wants to
write straddles against a portfolio of mutual funds he'll mutter
something about being a top gun producer and slink away.



How about you Joe?  If I were your cient and I wanted to sit down
with you and come up with a straddle writing portfolio how much help
are you going to be?



I've said it severeal times.  I am 100% convinced that you are a
journeyman broker who has taken the very scary step of "going Indy"
because you will be able to keep far more of your gross.



You have been pissed off for a number of years when you look at your
gross and your net and you figure that the difference was all wasted on
people like me, big offices, televison advertising and golden
parachutes.



You have fallen victim to some odd disease that seems to allow you to
conclude that the independent broker/dealers provide essentially the
same thing, but for free.



Believing in the good fairy, or that money grows on trees, is not a good thing for a financial professional to believe.

Jul 16, 2005 2:51 pm
Put Trader:

Believing in the good fairy, or that money grows on trees, is not a good thing for a financial professional to believe.


So you're admitting that believing in the good fairy didn't work for you. The rest of us already knew this, which is why we don't follow in the snake path of a foolish failed planner like puttyndacrack.


PS - You're suck as a private detective as much as you suck as a wannabe broker, puttyndacrack.

Jul 16, 2005 2:55 pm

Putsy,


900+ posts in 3 months? You have an addiction problem. Get some help.

Jul 16, 2005 3:03 pm
annuity guy:

Putsy,

900+ posts in 3 months? You have an addiction problem. Get some help. 


He's unemployed. If somebody turned off his computer, his last remaining brain cell would implode. Take away his crack and he'll die from withdrawal.


Without Google, he wouldn't even know what a Cobalt is. People who have money know, though.

Jul 16, 2005 11:09 pm
Put Trader:
joedabrkr:





'nuf said.








Joe is such a lightweight that Roger and Mojo impress him--OK, Barnham was right.



"There is no one more indoctrinated than the indoctrinators themselves."  From 'The DaVinci Code'.  Put you've been useless overhead for so long you've really started to believe your own BS.



The "indy" side is perfectly viable--I cannot recall mentioning it at all.



The fact is that there is a world of difference between what happens in
a Merrill Lynch branch and what goes on in a MetLife office.



There is also a world of difference between what it takes to make a living in the two environments.



With insurance the process is to "Take an ap"--which means sit down and
ask the suspect if they've ever experienced dizziness when they stand
up quickly, stuff like that.



It's as big a no brainer as one of those guys who work for
wholesalers--they go from store to store checking to see how many of
this and how many of that are needed to fill up the shelves.



The AL Williams philosphy of "Buy term and invest the rest" is most
appropriate for most people.  Using life insurance as an
investment vehicle is ridiculous.



I know, I know--COLI, BOLI, disability and all the rest.  Fine,
there's a market for that too.  If you work at Merrill and come
across a guy who wants to do a COLI deal, put on your insurance hat and
do it.  Don't have the expertise?  Call in somebody who does.

Try to find someone at Merrill or
Morgan or UBS who really understands how to write COLI or BOLI. 
You can't, most likely, and if you can they'll take such a huge chop
out of your commish it isn't worth the hassle.

You can't do that in reverse if you work at an insurance company. 
If a numbnuts such as Roger encounters somebody like me, who wants to
write straddles against a portfolio of mutual funds he'll mutter
something about being a top gun producer and slink away.



How about you Joe?  If I were your cient and I wanted to sit down
with you and come up with a straddle writing portfolio how much help
are you going to be?

You would never become my client.
You're too arrogant and your risk profile-in terms of preferred
investments-is too dicey. It would-in my view-be a problem waiting to
happen.  I'd most likely take a pass after the first meeting or
phone call.  I select my clients....they don't select me. 
Some of the best decisions I've ever made have involved refusing to
accept a difficult client who would waste my time or likely haul me
into arbitration.  That's why I make a good living and have a
clean U-4.

I've said it severeal times.  I am 100% convinced that you are a
journeyman broker who has taken the very scary step of "going Indy"
because you will be able to keep far more of your gross.

There's nothing wrong with
keeping more of my gross, is there?  Or investing it in front-line
support for client service, which is something folks actually care
about, rather than flashy useless TV ad campaigns.

You have been pissed off for a number of years when you look at your
gross and your net and you figure that the difference was all wasted on
people like me, big offices, televison advertising and golden
parachutes.

Well actually no it was only
about the last 18 months that I woke up and started to smell the
coffee.  But, yep I was might pissed off when I looked at the
whole wire gig with new eyes and saw how much money was being wasted on
folks like you who had time to sit and daytrade puts while they drew a
nice fat salary, flying around the country on the corporate budget not
doing much of anything useful for me or my clients.

You have fallen victim to some odd disease that seems to allow you to
conclude that the independent broker/dealers provide essentially the
same thing, but for free.

Nope not free.  But they
sure don't waste as much because....think about it Put but don't hurt
yourself-THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO!  Their profit margins on my biz are
smaller, and they have competition since I OWN THE BOOK OF CLIENTS AND
CAN LEAVE IF THEY DON'T GET THE JOB DONE!



Believing in the good fairy, or that money grows on trees, is not a good thing for a financial professional to believe.





Well enough of your silly rantings.  I'm going to go play a few
hands of blackjack and watch Bernard Hopkins win another fight.

Jul 17, 2005 3:48 pm
joedabrkr:





Try to find someone at Merrill or
Morgan or UBS who really understands how to write COLI or BOLI. 
You can't, most likely, and if you can they'll take such a huge chop
out of your commish it isn't worth the hassle.







Tell me something Joe.  Is keeping control of your client
something that you would attempt to do--or if a client says that they
want to do "X" are you willing to turn them over to the competition?



From where I sit, if a real stock broker isn't asking his clients for ALL their business he's a fool.



Are you saying that because you don't get the full chop on a COLI deal you will simply introduce the client to a competitor?

Jul 17, 2005 6:31 pm
Put Trader:

Tell me something Joe.  Is keeping control of your client something that you would attempt to do--or if a client says that they want to do "X" are you willing to turn them over to the competition?

From where I sit, if a real stock broker isn't asking his clients for ALL their business he's a fool.

Are you saying that because you don't get the full chop on a COLI deal you will simply introduce the client to a competitor?


Don't worry Joe, putty has never sold any COLI or BOLI. He had to google those acronyms just to keep up with the conversation, and he remains less than conversant on this topic.

Jul 17, 2005 7:49 pm
Roger Thornhill:
Put Trader:

Tell me something

Joe. Is keeping control of your client something that you would

attempt to do--or if a client says that they want to do "X" are you

willing to turn them over to the competition?From where I sit, if a real stock broker isn't asking his clients for ALL their business he's a fool.Are you saying that because you don't get the full chop on a COLI deal you will simply introduce the client to a competitor?



Don't worry Joe, putty has never sold any COLI or BOLI. He had to

google those acronyms just to keep up with the conversation, and he

remains less than conversant on this topic.




Don't worry Joe? What in the world is there to worry about? It was a simple question.



Do you think that a true professional introduces his clients to

competitors when they want to buy something that he could sell to them,

simply because he is going to received a reduced commission?

Jul 17, 2005 8:55 pm

See what I mean, Joe? He's talking to people who aren't even posting or reading this forum.