Bernie Ebbers

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Jul 13, 2005 12:24 pm

Well I see that Bernie Ebbers got thirty years.



So, we've got a guy who will spend the rest of his life in prison, and
tens of thousands of people whose lives were wrecked by what happened
with World Com.



I have pity for those who lost their jobs and have been unable to find
work--I suppose there are a lot of them, people with skills that
transfer virtually nowhere.



There is the other side of my point of view that says that it's their
fault, they are the nimrod who did not get an education and/or develop
skills that made the employable in another company or another industry.



Who I have absolutely zero pity for are the fools who rode the stock
into the ground.  People who fall in love with stocks are
morons--and people who do not diversify their holdings are morons
raised to a power.



From time to time the broadcast media focuses its bully microphone on
some schlub who used to be a millionaire who is now eating cat food as
if we're all suppose to feel sorry for them.



Why?  Whose fault is it that they didn't know how to set a stop?



But tonight Rosco will turn to Ethel and say, "Look they got the bastard, he's going to the pen for thirty years."



She'll say, "That's right, serves the SOB right for what he did to us."



Then he'll say what he'll say every day for the rest of his life, "Hey
woman, you're getting more than your share of the cat food......."

Jul 13, 2005 4:30 pm

Put:


This is where you and I part company.  I disagree with a blanket characterization of "morons".  I am sure a few of the people who bit the dust with Worldcom, Enron and their ilk were "morons".  However, the vast majority of these people were law-abiding trusting souls who put their faith in Wall Street research reports, company management, the boards of directors, auditing firms, their brokerage firm and their broker.  The fact is that all of these entities let the investor down.  Now I suppose that the guy who made an unsolicited trade through Ameritrade can't blame a broker, but there are still a lot of culprits running around.


On another matter, and this one really irritates me.  There are huge numbers of people in this country who were not lucky enough to win at the genetic lottery and either be born intelligent or wealthy.  These are the people who went off to fight in WWII, Korea, Vietnam and Iraq so that you can sit all cozy in your Manhattan flat and exercize your freedom of speech rights by calling them morons; just because they they didn't have the experience to develop a sophisticated asset allocation strategy with puts and calls to hedge their positions.  They went long and stayed long because they are the backbone of America and Americans go long.


I meet people everyday that get up everyday, go to work, work hard, don't make waves, pay their taxes, raise their children, go to church and try to save a little money for retirement.  They got shipped overseas to fight in a war, came home to their wife and children and just didn't have the resources to go to college for four years so they could meet your educational standards.  They deserve far better treatment than they received or will ever receive.  These "morons" have made everything we do possible.


While your taking your nightly stroll in Central Park, why don't you take a look around you and appreciate the people who really make our economic system work, the doormen, the taxi drivers, policemen, store clerks, construction workers and the gray haired "morons" of the greatest generation sitting on the park benches.  By the way, they're not known as the greatest generation because they are all Bernard Baruchs.


Pardon my rant, but the world does not spin around New York, Wall Street or our petty little economic enterprises.  It spins around those who really give meaning to life.  Those "morons" you indict.

Jul 13, 2005 4:33 pm

Well said Dash...And Put deosnt take nightly walks in Central Park, its too far from his shack on the Lower East Side. He trolls the internet looking for attention....

Jul 13, 2005 5:06 pm
dashampersand:

Pardon my rant, but the world does not spin
around New York, Wall Street or our petty little economic enterprises. 
It spins around those who really give meaning to life.  Those "morons"
you indict.

If you have your entire net worth tied up in a single stock--even if
it's where  you work--you have to be a moron.  How bright does somebody
have to be in order to know that the stock market can go down?

Do you believe the members of the Greatest Generation are aware that stock prices can drop?

Just how smart, how educated, does somebody have to be to know that? 
You sound like the apolgists for the minorities who whine that the
reason they don't finish fourth grade is because they don't understand
the importance of education.

I'm sorry but I refuse to believe that there are people who don't know
that the way out of poverty is to go to school--and the way to avoid
losing everything in the stock market is to not have too much in it,
and to have a plan to sell your shares if something happens.

How bright does somebody have to be to ask a broker, "Tell me, is there
a way I can enter an order to sell my share if they drop to a certain
price?"  That does not require a rocket scientist, and to excuse their
stupidity by saying that they are the backbone of America and above
criticism is to play the role of an apologist for stupidity.

Elsewhere in your thread you listed every military action that anybody
could have possibily been invovled in and still be alive--among them
was Viet Nam.  I am sixty--I did not get my Masters for a number of
years after I left SMU.  What do you imagine I might have been doing in
the late 1960s?

The idea that having been in a war zone excuses one from making stupid mistakes later in life is specious.

What is also ridiculous is the idea that there is anybody in this
country who was denied a college education due to lack of funding.  
Most of the greatest generation were in the service and were eligible
for the GI Bill--as has every veteran since.

Among younger people--since the draft lottery--there has been an
abundance of student loans and scholarships.  It's apolgizing again to
believe that those who do not  have college educations don't have them
because they couldn't afford them.

I am not saying that people who are not bright enough to go to college
could have degrees--but any person who was bright enough could have
gotten the funding.

So, the conclusion is this--if you don't have a degree it is becuase
you were unmotivated and/or too stupid to know the importance of it. 
It was not because you didn't have the money.

Again, I have no pity for fools who held WorldCom stock down to zero. 
Let them eat their cat food and tell themselves, "I am too stupid to
know how to take care of myself which is why I am doing this."

There is a saying in Wall Street--"Don't argue with the tape."  I don't
care if every analyst in the street was saying that WorldCom was a buy
if it's dropping and you're "getting killed" you have nobody to blame
but yourself.

Now, let's ask a philosophical question.  Should somebody who thinks
like I do be allowed to sit on arbitration panels--or should such
panels be closed to men and women who are personal responsibility
zealots?

Jul 13, 2005 5:12 pm

Nice post Dash.  I have found Put's wealth of knowledge impressive.  He has been attacked on this board and has the right to defend himself.  But when he call those who may be less fortunate and in need "morons", I have lost respect.  People make mistakes.  Bad things happen to good people.  No one can control everything that happens to them.  Some people do have to eat cat food or anything else to make ends meet.  Or to feed their children.  Whatever happened to kindness, humility and charity.  oh wait...I may be on the wrong website!!!!!


Peace everyone.

Jul 13, 2005 5:14 pm
dashampersand:

While your taking your nightly stroll in
Central Park, why don't you take a look around you and appreciate the
people who really make our economic system work, the doormen, the taxi
drivers, policemen, store clerks, construction workers and the gray
haired "morons" of the greatest generation sitting on the park
benches.  By the way, they're not known as the greatest generation
because they are all Bernard Baruchs.





How does a doorman make our economic system work--as best I can tell they make the door work.



I know, I know--they spend money and that starts up the mulitiplier
effect and blah, blah, blah.  But I assure you that the econonmy
will not rise or fall on the spending habits of my doormen and
conceirges--even at Christmas bonus time.



To the extent that the economy is driven by individuals it is driven by
the upper middle class who is out buying homes, running up their credit
cards, buying cars and the like.



It is not driven by the by the hour types who you seem to
celebrate.  If you're prospecting among the doormen you need to
aim higher.

Jul 13, 2005 6:21 pm

Put:


This afternoon after I wrote my original post, I had a man come to my office to do some business.  He is 48 years old and a factory worker.  He is not college educated and works a line job 55 hours a week.  He plans to work until he is at least 70.  He wears old clothes and looks bedraggled.  He definitely does not speak the Queen's English.


However, he came to my office to open 529 plans for the five (5) special needs children that he and his wife have adopted.  He put his absolute trust in me. 


You say that I need to aim higher.  There could be no higher aim than to serve clients such as this.

Jul 13, 2005 6:23 pm
dashampersand:

Put:


This afternoon after I wrote my original post, I had a man come to
my office to do some business.  He is 48 years old and a factory
worker.  He is not college educated and works a line job 55 hours
a week.  He plans to work until he is at least 70.  He wears
old clothes and looks bedraggled.  He definitely does not speak
the Queen's English.


However, he came to my office to open 529 plans for the five (5)
special needs children that he and his wife have adopted.  He put
his absolute trust in me. 


You say that I need to aim higher.  There could be no higher aim than to serve clients such as this.





If you're a priest I would agree.  Are you a priest?

Jul 13, 2005 6:30 pm
dashampersand:

This afternoon after I wrote my original
post, I had a man come to my office to do some business.  He is 48
years old and a factory worker.  He is not college educated and
works a line job 55 hours a week.  He plans to work until he is at
least 70.  He wears old clothes and looks bedraggled.  He
definitely does not speak the Queen's English.





What about this guy is worthy of pointing to and telling somebody else, "You should try to be like him?"



Would you hope your own son ends up as a 48 year old schlub working 55 hours a week doing repetitive work?

Jul 13, 2005 6:36 pm

Put Trader put a lid on it will yas. Stick your nose outside of the smelly City and you'll see the backbone of the U.S.A. You don' realize it but you're a product of the lucky sperm club. Wake up and smell the coffee.


Jul 13, 2005 6:39 pm
derekgaddy:

Put Trader put a lid on it will yas. Stick your nose outside of the smelly City and you'll see the backbone of the U.S.A. You don' realize it but you're a product of the lucky sperm club. Wake up and smell the coffee.


Derekgaddy, if you want to really piss of puttyndacrack, ask him what the theory was behind the '33 Act.


He'll waffle, write some lengthy nonresponsive diatribe, and then try to counter with a red herring or straw man.


Insert puttyndacrack's response here:

Jul 13, 2005 6:42 pm
derekgaddy:

Put Trader put a lid on it will yas. Stick your
nose outside of the smelly City and you'll see the backbone of the
U.S.A. You don' realize it but you're a product of the lucky sperm
club. Wake up and smell the coffee.





Ever since Mayor Guliani came to office the city has been much much cleaner--you should come visit.



As for the lucky sperm club--I have never denied that I was lucky to
have a father who taught me to stand up straight, look everybody in the
eye, and to be ambitious.



But those of you who whine that there is a lucky sperm club are simply
denying the truth in the adage, "The harder I worked the luckier I got."



I am where I am in life because I work sixty plus hours a week utilizing my brain and my education.



If you had a huge position in a stock would you be interested in ways to avoid losing money in that position?



I'll assume your answer is yes--and then ask why you are willing to excuse less basic curiosity.

Jul 13, 2005 6:49 pm

What about this guy is worthy of pointing out???!!!!  He has adopted special needs children and is trying to help them.  Thinking and caring about someone more than you care about yourself is not admirable???  Helping those who are not as fortunate is not admirable???  What am I missing here???

Jul 13, 2005 6:59 pm
adoluap:

What about this guy is worthy of pointing out???!!!!  He has adopted special needs children and is trying to help them.  Thinking and caring about someone more than you care about yourself is not admirable???  Helping those who are not as fortunate is not admirable???  What am I missing here???


puttyndacrack is a failed planner. One of the symptoms of a failed planner is a holier-than-thou attitude when faced with anything that resembles work or requires sweat (like prospecting, or dealing with rank and file Americans that make up the majority of the population).


Unlike the newbys who often fake it until the make it, puttndacrack exhibits false confidence to make up for his complete lack of competence.


Right now he's headed to the public library to look up the theory behind the '33 Act, because he can't find what he's looking for using the only resource he has to back up his unwarranted pomposity:  A search engine.


A Top Gun Producer is a catalytic, empathic, persuasive agent of positive change in the lives of their clients.


Notice the complete lack of empathy of puttyndacrack?


He's definitely not catalytic, spending all his days posting on here, and he can't persuade anyone to even believe his lies, and the only positive change he could contribute to this forum would be his absence from it.


He has no clients. Only fantasies.

Jul 13, 2005 7:01 pm
Put Trader:

 



What about this guy is worthy of pointing to and telling somebody else, "You should try to be like him?"



Would you hope your own son ends up as a 48 year old schlub working 55 hours a week doing repetitive work?





Govenor Put-ius of Jewdaya (Circa 30 Ainno Duminme): "What about this
carpenter (turns to his Bichon Nicosia and whispers "Tell me again,
which one of the Gods do they say is his father...you can never tell
with these types ~high pitch giggle~) is worthy of pointing to and
telling somebody else, "You should try to be like him?"



"Would you hope your own son ends up an old (mortality tables need
adjusting) schlub working 55 hours a week doing repetive works?"




Jul 13, 2005 7:17 pm

(An oil lamp lights above the Gov P's head) - I have an Option!




Jul 13, 2005 8:03 pm

"He's definitely not catalytic, spending all his days posting on here, and he can't persuade anyone to even believe his lies, and the only positive change he could contribute to this forum would be his absence from it."


Roger, great post bud. That comment sums it all up. What I cannot believe is that Put doesnt go away. For every person who feels he has a 'positive influence' on this forum, there are 25 others who wish he spent his time over at Yahoo's finance forum... Go ahead Put, go check it out, and then stay over there.... Buh Bye...

Jul 13, 2005 8:23 pm

Is their any way we could have a poll or petition advocating that he be banned from the forum?

Jul 13, 2005 8:34 pm

Arguing with Put is like running in the Special Olympics.  Sure, you can beat him every time, but when it's over all you've done is beat a retard.

Jul 13, 2005 9:21 pm
Coag:

Is their any way we could have a poll or petition advocating that he be banned from the forum?





Groag, it would be a stretch to put Dean P. Webber on probation. I
think the big DP would be a definite nonconsent during any internal
probing or submission to double blind polling tecniques. You might want
to bring a set of your gloves in case it gets ugly during the
debriefing. (Looks like the Dean and Goag have been over-do'ing the
Special K)



You guys up for a toga party?