B/D vs Insurance
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[quote=LeaseNoMore]
I, like you, want to consult... not sell.[/quote]
Then you're in the wrong business buddy. This business is about selling, no matter what your title is. We have to get people to act on the advice which helps them and put money in our pocket. The annoying "Fee Only" crowd like NAPFA and Garrett Network love to spout out "We don't sell", which is horse crap. They sell their services but they have the holier than thou mentality, which drives me crazy.
I don't know why people have such a hangup about being salesmen. Sales people are the most important people in the world; if it wasn't for us, people wouldn't buy products and that's what makes the economy work. Doctors and lawyers sell too. Everytime I take my pet to the Vet, they're always trying to upsell me on something else I need.
What's wrong with selling life insurance? Life insurance actually helps families of all classes unlike an alternative investment/hedge fund investment. Plus, just think about the probabilities. This business is a numbers game. With selling insurance, if you can get someone to give you a $100/month, you're getting paid close to $1K for that one sale versus a $100/month into Class A share. You'll find a lot more people able to do $100/month for life insurance versus $500K investments. Plus selling life insurance opens up the doors for other opportunities.
Still@jones, you need to rethink this. This is a sales career and it always will be.[quote=LeaseNoMore]…I, like you, want to consult… not sell. Within that structure, I think I’d prefer to be an investment guy who can sell insurance, rather than an insurance guy who can sell investments.[/quote]
Everyone who joins this industry wants to consult…and if you have the cash reserves to cover a few years, you can do it. But if you want to get out of the gate and make $75k-$100k your first year…you have to sell!!!
Still@jones, you need to rethink this. This is a sales career and it always will be.[/quote][quote=Still@jones] [quote=LeaseNoMore]…I, like you, want to consult… not sell. Within that structure, I think I’d prefer to be an investment guy who can sell insurance, rather than an insurance guy who can sell investments.[/quote]
Everyone who joins this industry wants to consult…and if you have the cash reserves to cover a few years, you can do it. But if you want to get out of the gate and make $75k-$100k your first year…you have to sell!!!
....rethinking.....yeah, you are right! This is a sales job and nothing else...
Ok… let’s compromise and say that using consultative selling techniques is the way to go. Now, back to Football Night in America.
[quote=army13A] [quote=LeaseNoMore]
I, like you, want to consult... not sell.[/quote]
Then you're in the wrong business buddy. This business is about selling, no matter what your title is. We have to get people to act on the advice which helps them and put money in our pocket. The annoying "Fee Only" crowd like NAPFA and Garrett Network love to spout out "We don't sell", which is horse crap. They sell their services but they have the holier than thou mentality, which drives me crazy.
I don't know why people have such a hangup about being salesmen. Sales people are the most important people in the world; if it wasn't for us, people wouldn't buy products and that's what makes the economy work. Doctors and lawyers sell too. Everytime I take my pet to the Vet, they're always trying to upsell me on something else I need.
What's wrong with selling life insurance? Life insurance actually helps families of all classes unlike an alternative investment/hedge fund investment. Plus, just think about the probabilities. This business is a numbers game. With selling insurance, if you can get someone to give you a $100/month, you're getting paid close to $1K for that one sale versus a $100/month into Class A share. You'll find a lot more people able to do $100/month for life insurance versus $500K investments. Plus selling life insurance opens up the doors for other opportunities.
[/quote] Yea but you're still unprofessional. A real professional would spend his time pisspounding some small business owner into putting $50,000 in a muni-bond or a non-traded REIT. He would be the 3rd such professional that week to attempt to do so.
How is MassMutual’s B/D? I’ve heard the one at Guardian (PAS) is not good at all and I’m considering the two companies. I’ve also applied at a more investment focused company with the following payouts listed on their site - how do they compare?
The pay grid at xyz company is among the best in the industry.
Our graduated grid tops out at a 50% payout. Additionally, Financial
Advisors are eligible for annual production bonuses of between 2% and
5% based upon yearly production.
We have worked side-by-side with our Financial Consultant community to provide them with the ultimate control as to how they approach their business by developing frameworks that can be tailored to fit the ways in which individuals and teams work best. Qualified teams go through the grid one time under our “Preferred Partners” or “Net Split” programs.
The simplified answer to the question is that Insurance Companies will have higher payouts for their products because once you leave, your book stays. Whereas, most wirehouses will allow your clients to move with you.
After coming from the Proprietary Insurance side and segwaying to the Independent Channel, I can see the difference. It’s really not about the payout. It’s about what clientelle do you want to work with.
On the captive agency of an insurance company, your target market is undereducated investors. You can make a good living working on accounts that range from $0 to $500,000. Every once in a great while, you will land a $700,000 account. But you won’t ever deal with High Net Worths.
Going the wirehouse route, your range is a lot larger. Investors are more apt to invest with wirehouses when you are dealing with larger accounts. However, payouts are generally lower.
However, the driving factor is how long you want to be in the business. After you build a nice book and want more opportunity, wirehouses are easier to transition into the independent sector. Whereas, captive agencies will have you sign contracts and it is difficult to move clients and possible litigation will be brought against you.
Unfortunately, the Ed Jones Koolaid drinker that made his post is correct. They are a great place to start and build their career. However, you will work HARD! I’m not with EJ, but if I had to start my career path again, I would have started with them.
[quote=JohnJacobJingle]The simplified answer to the question is that Insurance Companies will have higher payouts for their products because once you leave, your book stays. Whereas, most wirehouses will allow your clients to move with you.
After coming from the Proprietary Insurance side and segwaying to the Independent Channel, I can see the difference. It’s really not about the payout. It’s about what clientelle do you want to work with.
On the captive agency of an insurance company, your target market is undereducated investors. You can make a good living working on accounts that range from $0 to $500,000. Every once in a great while, you will land a $700,000 account. But you won’t ever deal with High Net Worths.
Going the wirehouse route, your range is a lot larger. Investors are more apt to invest with wirehouses when you are dealing with larger accounts. However, payouts are generally lower.
However, the driving factor is how long you want to be in the business. After you build a nice book and want more opportunity, wirehouses are easier to transition into the independent sector. Whereas, captive agencies will have you sign contracts and it is difficult to move clients and possible litigation will be brought against you.
Unfortunately, the Ed Jones Koolaid drinker that made his post is correct. They are a great place to start and build their career. However, you will work HARD! I’m not with EJ, but if I had to start my career path again, I would have started with them.[/quote]
This post couldn’t be more wrong.
A lot of insurance B/D will let you switch B/D and will not come after your investment clients as long as you keep an insurance producer contract with them.
Wirehouses are coming loaded for bear the second you think about leaving them.
You believe it’s easier to become self-employed from being a wirehouse employee than it is from being an insurance 1099 independent contractor?
Also you can keep your insurance renewals at most places if you switch from a career agent contract to a producer or broker contract.
True on the B/D switch, I’ve checked. Also correct on the contract. I have interviewed with one career mutual and you don’t vest for many many years… Another you vest quickly, in 2-3 years so you don’t lose your book.
I’m just weighing the pros and cons of both…
JJJ, don't post without knowledge. It's a waste of your time and the readers' time.The simplified answer to the question is that Insurance Companies will have higher payouts for their products because once you leave, your book stays. Whereas, most wirehouses will allow your clients to move with you.
After coming from the Proprietary Insurance side and segwaying to the Independent Channel, I can see the difference. It’s really not about the payout. It’s about what clientelle do you want to work with.
On the captive agency of an insurance company, your target market is undereducated investors. You can make a good living working on accounts that range from $0 to $500,000. Every once in a great while, you will land a $700,000 account. But you won’t ever deal with High Net Worths.
Going the wirehouse route, your range is a lot larger. Investors are more apt to invest with wirehouses when you are dealing with larger accounts. However, payouts are generally lower.
However, the driving factor is how long you want to be in the business. After you build a nice book and want more opportunity, wirehouses are easier to transition into the independent sector. Whereas, captive agencies will have you sign contracts and it is difficult to move clients and possible litigation will be brought against you.
Unfortunately, the Ed Jones Koolaid drinker that made his post is correct. They are a great place to start and build their career. However, you will work HARD! I’m not with EJ, but if I had to start my career path again, I would have started with them.
[quote=Leverage]
BB, I'm sure that you won't say but I'd like to know what company you are with. It's certainly not my current/soon to be former mutual company. First of all, under 4 year agents are not allowed to do wrap accounts...even so, most don't have a 7 anyway. Load funds and VA, the grid starts at 35% for everyone and goes to 85%. However, again under 4 year agents are strongly discouraged from selling anything but insurance anyway so it doesn't really matter. The standard fees apply for registered reps and agent licensing. We've only got 2 IAR's in the entire office so...and E & O insuance is $30 twice monthly, copies and faxes are 9 cents per and there's free rent for the under 4 crowd. However, once you hit the five year mark the rent starts at $600/mth and goes up depending on the size of your office/etc. A small allowance is avaliable for assistants which amounts to about 4% of your gross commisions (I know because I had one...emphasis on HAD), the remainder of their salary comes out of your (the agents) pocket. The company strongly encourages that you obtain an assistant within your first 12 - 18 months, it shows a level of dedication. Of course the agent pays postage, long distance, etc. They nickle and dime you to death. To the thread starter: The one thing to remember about insurance companies is just that...they are just that...insurance companies. Most have no interests in agents selling equities period. Most are masquerading as full service financial planning outfits when premium dollars are all that matters. Peace[/quote] Leverage, your going to leave "mother mutual"? Trust me, I know exactly what your describing because I recently left myself this year after 6 years. I did the internship straight out of college and have went headfirst and full-bore ever since. It's a funny effect that damn blue Kool-aid has on you....at least for me, I justified all of the bs and nickle and diming for years as "yeah I could make more money elsewhere, but I'd rather make less money and have access to the worlds best risk management products". Let me just tell you this, not even 10 months into going independent I am seeing just how much money I was making for management, who couldn't sell or were just too lazy to. I did an EXTENSIVE b/d search and I actually ended up going with one owned by a mutual insurance company that I do a good deal of life business with. This seems hard to believe after coming out of "mother mutual", but I do business with this mutual insurance company as an independent advisor AND they give me access to their b/d. Best part is I don't have to be my own OSJ and I'm getting 84% payout. Leverage, feel free to send me a private message or reply to this post and I would share with you some of my thoughts having already gone through what you are about to and leaving the same company.[quote=CFP83][quote=Leverage]
BB, I'm sure that you won't say but I'd like to know what company you are with. It's certainly not my current/soon to be former mutual company. First of all, under 4 year agents are not allowed to do wrap accounts...even so, most don't have a 7 anyway. Load funds and VA, the grid starts at 35% for everyone and goes to 85%. However, again under 4 year agents are strongly discouraged from selling anything but insurance anyway so it doesn't really matter. The standard fees apply for registered reps and agent licensing. We've only got 2 IAR's in the entire office so...and E & O insuance is $30 twice monthly, copies and faxes are 9 cents per and there's free rent for the under 4 crowd. However, once you hit the five year mark the rent starts at $600/mth and goes up depending on the size of your office/etc. A small allowance is avaliable for assistants which amounts to about 4% of your gross commisions (I know because I had one...emphasis on HAD), the remainder of their salary comes out of your (the agents) pocket. The company strongly encourages that you obtain an assistant within your first 12 - 18 months, it shows a level of dedication. Of course the agent pays postage, long distance, etc. They nickle and dime you to death. To the thread starter: The one thing to remember about insurance companies is just that...they are just that...insurance companies. Most have no interests in agents selling equities period. Most are masquerading as full service financial planning outfits when premium dollars are all that matters. Peace[/quote] Leverage, your going to leave "mother mutual"? Trust me, I know exactly what your describing because I recently left myself this year after 6 years. I did the internship straight out of college and have went headfirst and full-bore ever since. It's a funny effect that damn blue Kool-aid has on you....at least for me, I justified all of the bs and nickle and diming for years as "yeah I could make more money elsewhere, but I'd rather make less money and have access to the worlds best risk management products". Let me just tell you this, not even 10 months into going independent I am seeing just how much money I was making for management, who couldn't sell or were just too lazy to. I did an EXTENSIVE b/d search and I actually ended up going with one owned by a mutual insurance company that I do a good deal of life business with. This seems hard to believe after coming out of "mother mutual", but I do business with this mutual insurance company as an independent advisor AND they give me access to their b/d. Best part is I don't have to be my own OSJ and I'm getting 84% payout. Leverage, feel free to send me a private message or reply to this post and I would share with you some of my thoughts having already gone through what you are about to and leaving the same company.[/quote]Welcome to the board and good information. I know my Mutual Ins Co will allow independents with a clean U4 join our B/D as long as they put a minimal amount of insurance business through like as little as $6k FYC I think.
I'm sure there are companies with better platforms and payouts than ours, but we're pretty competitive and I'm happy for now!
Thanks for the welcome BB…I actually just found this forum last night. I’m kinda new to the whole “forum” thing. Earlier this year though I came across www.insurance-forums.net , which, for the advisors who do life/di/ltc is also a excellent discussion board. So just yesterday I started searching for a similiar boards that had more of an investment focus…this one seems to be great and has some excellent discussions
[quote=BerkshireBull]
[quote=CFP83][quote=Leverage]
BB, I'm sure that you won't say but I'd like to know what company you are with. It's certainly not my current/soon to be former mutual company. First of all, under 4 year agents are not allowed to do wrap accounts...even so, most don't have a 7 anyway. Load funds and VA, the grid starts at 35% for everyone and goes to 85%. However, again under 4 year agents are strongly discouraged from selling anything but insurance anyway so it doesn't really matter. The standard fees apply for registered reps and agent licensing. We've only got 2 IAR's in the entire office so...and E & O insuance is $30 twice monthly, copies and faxes are 9 cents per and there's free rent for the under 4 crowd. However, once you hit the five year mark the rent starts at $600/mth and goes up depending on the size of your office/etc. A small allowance is avaliable for assistants which amounts to about 4% of your gross commisions (I know because I had one...emphasis on HAD), the remainder of their salary comes out of your (the agents) pocket. The company strongly encourages that you obtain an assistant within your first 12 - 18 months, it shows a level of dedication. Of course the agent pays postage, long distance, etc. They nickle and dime you to death. To the thread starter: The one thing to remember about insurance companies is just that...they are just that...insurance companies. Most have no interests in agents selling equities period. Most are masquerading as full service financial planning outfits when premium dollars are all that matters. Peace[/quote]Leverage, your going to leave “mother mutual”? Trust me, I know exactly what your describing because I recently left myself this year after 6 years.
I did the internship straight out of college and have went headfirst and full-bore ever since. It's a funny effect that damn blue Kool-aid has on you....at least for me, I justified all of the bs and nickle and diming for years as "yeah I could make more money elsewhere, but I'd rather make less money and have access to the worlds best risk management products". Let me just tell you this, not even 10 months into going independent I am seeing just how much money I was making for management, who couldn't sell or were just too lazy to. I did an EXTENSIVE b/d search and I actually ended up going with one owned by a mutual insurance company that I do a good deal of life business with. This seems hard to believe after coming out of "mother mutual", but I do business with this mutual insurance company as an independent advisor AND they give me access to their b/d. Best part is I don't have to be my own OSJ and I'm getting 84% payout. Leverage, feel free to send me a private message or reply to this post and I would share with you some of my thoughts having already gone through what you are about to and leaving the same company.[/quote]Welcome to the board and good information. I know my Mutual Ins Co will allow independents with a clean U4 join our B/D as long as they put a minimal amount of insurance business through like as little as $6k FYC I think.
I'm sure there are companies with better platforms and payouts than ours, but we're pretty competitive and I'm happy for now!
[/quote]
if its any place like where I was for a few weeks, that BD is not much. =P No matter what, any insurance company will want you to focus on insurance. This would be like joining a wirehouse to be an insurance producer.
[quote=gettingstarted]How is MassMutual’s B/D? I’ve heard the one at Guardian (PAS) is not good at all and I’m considering the two companies. I’ve also applied at a more investment focused company with the following payouts listed on their site - how do they compare?
The pay grid at xyz company is among the best in the industry. Our graduated grid tops out at a 50% payout. Additionally, Financial Advisors are eligible for annual production bonuses of between 2% and 5% based upon yearly production.
We have worked side-by-side with our Financial Consultant community to provide them with the ultimate control as to how they approach their business by developing frameworks that can be tailored to fit the ways in which individuals and teams work best. Qualified teams go through the grid one time under our “Preferred Partners” or “Net Split” programs.
[/quote] MassMutual's BD is really good, what did you want to know?
[quote=CFP83]Thanks for the welcome BB…I actually just found this forum last night. I’m kinda new to the whole “forum” thing. Earlier this year though I came across www.insurance-forums.net , which, for the advisors who do life/di/ltc is also a excellent discussion board. So just yesterday I started searching for a similiar boards that had more of an investment focus…this one seems to be great and has some excellent discussions[/quote]
I’ve read a little on that board. Most (not all) of the members are pretty basic insurance agents and tend to have a product or two they focus on. I have seen some really nice prospecting ideas thrown around over there in the past.
This place on the other hand seems to attract (not always) people doing financial planning and the discussion tends to (not always) be more sophisticated. What this place DOES HAVE is has more drama and entertainment value than any other forum for people in our business.
Bull, that was the most well put, politically correct, description of the character of this forum that i could have ever imagined.
Well done.I'm looking forward to interacting with all of you on this forum and really glad I found it. BB your pretty much right about insurance-forums, it is a great forum with some good topics, but most are mainly insurance focused and in some cases product focused.[quote=CFP83]Thanks for the welcome BB…I actually just found this forum last night. I’m kinda new to the whole “forum” thing. Earlier this year though I came across www.insurance-forums.net , which, for the advisors who do life/di/ltc is also a excellent discussion board. So just yesterday I started searching for a similiar boards that had more of an investment focus…this one seems to be great and has some excellent discussions[/quote]
I’ve read a little on that board. Most (not all) of the members are pretty basic insurance agents and tend to have a product or two they focus on. I have seen some really nice prospecting ideas thrown around over there in the past.
This place on the other hand seems to attract (not always) people doing financial planning and the discussion tends to (not always) be more sophisticated. What this place DOES HAVE is has more drama and entertainment value than any other forum for people in our business.
A wire is really the way to go if you are looking to make money off of investments. You should concentrate on this field. Insurance just isn't cutting it these days.
John
Independent Insurance Agents