Avoiding Snakes In Your Head

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Jun 16, 2005 5:52 pm

One of the things I've done more than my fair share of is post mortums on failed careers.



One of the things that affects a lot of brokers is the internalizing of
(for lack of a better term) guilt for having suggested things to
clients that did not work out.



Brokers need to walk a fine line between being so sociopathic that they
just don't give a damn about their clients--"Fist full of Forex"
types--and people who become so guilt ridden that they run from what
they see as incredible stress due to taking on a huge dose of guilt.



Assuming that you have done your job of getting to know your client and
what they are trying to accomplish you have to be almost cold in your
opinion of what happens later.



I have known all types--from the sociopaths who could drown their own
mothers (Fist full of Forex types) to a guy who actually sat down with
a client's attorney who was going to sue him to ensure that he had a
good case.



You will find that your own career--and sense of self respect--will be
best served if you keep telling yourself that you did the best job you
could, armed with the knowledge that you had at the time.



On the other hand, if you're a moron--and you know if you are or
not--may you rot in hell if your own stupidity causes a client to lose
a single dollar.



This is a profession, and it is inexcusable that somebody without an
MBA can even sit for the Series 7.  It is also inexcusable that a
passing score on Series 7 is less than 85%.



There is no room for the "Fistfull of Forex" types in the world of decent people.

Jun 16, 2005 6:55 pm

Oh please...an MBA...what a waste of time.  Somebody run the stats on how an MBA consistently and significantly improved the career skills of investment representatives.


This is yet another example of the overfed egos on this board...give me a break.

Jun 16, 2005 7:03 pm

Put- YOU ARE A JOKE.. Once again, you place a good post only to ruin it with your last 3 sentences.. Once again, any wisdom and experience you share with us is drowned out by some of your idiotic views on the current industry.. C'mon, I cant wait for your pathetic response..

Jun 16, 2005 7:24 pm

I somewhat agree with put. The industry seems really easy to get into and I am amazed that some people without any education past an undergrad degree can still get accounts. If I were being pitched by a guy without an advanced degree or certifications I would not even consider going with them.

Jun 16, 2005 8:01 pm
blarmston:

Put- YOU ARE A JOKE.. Once again, you place a good
post only to ruin it with your last 3 sentences.. Once again, any
wisdom and experience you share with us is drowned out by some of your
idiotic views on the current industry.. C'mon, I cant wait for your
pathetic response..





Poor Blarmston, a sleaze ball broker who gets all agitated when I
suggest that the biz should be out of reach from those of his ilk.



He raises the "Stop talking about me!!" routine to an art form.




Jun 16, 2005 8:05 pm
Jun 16, 2005 8:08 pm

The truth is this - why would anyone with an advanced degree want to
deal with the pressure/stress of being a financial advisor when they
can go get a high paying job doing something far easier?  Why
would someone want to go to college for 6,7,8 years or more so that
they can sit on the phone all day and get hung up on half the
time?  They don't want to most of the time, and I don't blame
them. 



SO that leaves the rest of us.  Ambitious go getters who know if
we work hard enough we can skip climbing the corporate ladder and be
making big bucks in a few short (but seemingly endless) years. 



Mario- it doesnt require a genius (or a person with advanced degrees)
to pick mutual funds that are expected to do well, put money into high
grade bonds, read the WSJ, and plan for retirement.  Anyone can
figure it out with a little effort, but most people don't have the time
to do it themselves or dont want to.  If a financial advisor's job
was to put clients money into options bought on margin, then yes I
would agree with you.   But its not that complicated.

    

Jun 16, 2005 8:12 pm
Indyone:

Oh please...an
MBA...what a waste of time.  Somebody run the stats on how an MBA
consistently and significantly improved the career skills of investment
representatives.


This is yet another example of the overfed egos on this board...give me a break.





Standards, it's all about standards.  That you have none does not
mean that the rest of us don't think there should be some.



The reason that standards are so low is because of how the NASD
operates.  On many issues a member is a member is a member--so
that Acme Brokerage of East Bumphuck, Ohio has a vote that counts just
as much as Merrill's vote.



There are a lot more small firm members than large firm members so when
suggestions such as educational standards are considered the small
firms who would not want to restrict their flexibility vote no.



It's the same reason why the NYSE--which has a more professional
lmembership--has a mandatory training period and the NASD does not.



Basically somebody such as me--with an education and who values
education--will favor higher standards than the bulk of the cretins who
leave their brain farts on this forum.  As we figured out a month
or so ago many--perhaps most--of those who post here are not motivated
enough to finish an undergraduate degree much less an advanced degree.



They also pride themselves on their low scores on Series 7.



It's as if the industry has gone through the looking glass as the
quality fo young people has declined in the frenzy of leveling the
education system so that everybody is "equal"---as in equally stupid.

Jun 16, 2005 8:26 pm
Scorpio:



If a financial advisor's job
was to put clients money into options bought on margin, then yes I
would agree with you.   But its not that complicated.

    





Options bought on margin?  See, that's the kind of stuff that
makes old pro's sad--the kids who are coming along are too stupid to be
taught anything other than how to pick mutual funds.



It's not your fault, kids.  We.society let you down.  In 1969
the nation started down the road to "equality" and high on the list was
to narrow the gap that existed among the citizens when it came to
education.



For about 10 years an effort was made to raise everybody up--but that
didn't work so for the last quarter of a century the effort was to
narrow the gap by making everybody equally dumb.



It worked--today's smartest kids would be also rans if you were thirty
or forty years younger.  It had to be, it was unaccpetable for the
"education gap" to exist.

Jun 16, 2005 8:38 pm

Put, you exist in the managerial quagmire which profits by manipulating
others to their detriment while forwarding your own aggrandizement. The
only other thing which might have better defined you would have been a
position in some governmental organization (think post office) where
you could have measured and weighed policies and procedures (squint
your eyes and imagine Frank Burns in a postal uniform) against the
sweat and accomplishments of REAL working men and women. You parcel out
advice and stamp out orders of execution based upon a tiered schedule
that simply exists as a novel historical reference. Here's the bottom
line for our readers: Most generalist firms need to operate with at
least 25% pre-tax margins to achieve the kind of profits that keep guys
like Put in argyle socks. This represents Tier 1, 2  and 3 firms
when it projects sufficient scale to be functional generalists in the
financial advisory fields. Small firms with under .5 billion in AUM
will only thrive when they fix a course as niche specialists. The days
of operating with pre-tax margins below 10% are in the winter season.
Now that's the bad news. The good news is that unlike the days of olde
when Put could tell ye all of thee silver sperm stories with the shake
of one hand (Put, that's in your Jack Hoffman file or better called
"it's not who you've known but whom you've blown...one man's odyssey in
search of MBA'd sea men") and boring born of privilege not fortitude
testimonials...I'll leave you with a simple fact: 7,500,000 new
millionaires in the market over the last decade. This new money is
redefining the industry. The new money shares interests which might
include cold beer, loud cars and anything with the word hooters in it.
Equally, more women represent a proportionate amount of the opportunity
in a career regularly defined in the past by back room decisions and
unspoken conditions...put that in your pipe and please step outside -
"This is a smoke blowing out of your a$$ free-zone. FYI, I'm not in the
FOREX business. However, I do enjoy a good western now and again.



Put, who's your Daddy?

Jun 16, 2005 9:42 pm
Mojo:

Put, you exist in the managerial quagmire which profits by manipulating
others to their detriment while forwarding your own aggrandizement. The
only other thing which might have better defined you would have been a
position in some governmental organization (think post office) where
you could have measured and weighed policies and procedures (squint
your eyes and imagine Frank Burns in a postal uniform) against the
sweat and accomplishments of REAL working men and women. You parcel out
advice and stamp out orders of execution based upon a tiered schedule
that simply exists as a novel historical reference. Here's the bottom
line for our readers: Most generalist firms need to operate with at
least 25% pre-tax margins to achieve the kind of profits that keep guys
like Put in argyle socks. This represents Tier 1, 2  and 3 firms
when it projects sufficient scale to be functional generalists in the
financial advisory fields. Small firms with under .5 billion in AUM
will only thrive when they fix a course as niche specialists. The days
of operating with pre-tax margins below 10% are in the winter season.
Now that's the bad news. The good news is that unlike the days of olde
when Put could tell ye all of thee silver sperm stories with the shake
of one hand (Put, that's in your Jack Hoffman file or better called
"it's not who you've known but whom you've blown...one man's odyssey in
search of MBA'd sea men") and boring born of privilege not fortitude
testimonials...I'll leave you with a simple fact: 7,500,000 new
millionaires in the market over the last decade. This new money is
redefining the industry. The new money shares interests which might
include cold beer, loud cars and anything with the word hooters in it.
Equally, more women represent a proportionate amount of the opportunity
in a career regularly defined in the past by back room decisions and
unspoken conditions...put that in your pipe and please step outside -
"This is a smoke blowing out of your a$$ free-zone. FYI, I'm not in the
FOREX business. However, I do enjoy a good western now and again.



Put, who's your Daddy?





One long run-on sentence signfying zero.

Jun 16, 2005 10:37 pm

Put, like most marginalized management types you fall back on reflexive
responses which cause some of us to look away rather then watch and
share in the image of an idiot with spittle covered chin attempt a
quick comeback and intead proceeds w/out fail to further insult himself
(now that's a run on sentence). The sum of my above post was a factor
of your life here on this forum. Zero. Good job son. 

Jun 16, 2005 10:41 pm

"This is a profession, and it is inexcusable that somebody without an MBA can even sit for the Series 7."



Says the guy that "earned" his diploma-mill MBA long after he'd taken the S7 and had flunked out of production...

Jun 16, 2005 11:09 pm

This is a profession, and it is inexcusable that somebody without an MBA can even sit for the Series 7.  It is also inexcusable that a passing score on Series 7 is less than 85%.


You are a F@!#$ moron.  You should have to have an MBA to sit for the 7??? Are you serious???  How many MBAs do you know that are investment savvy? How many MBAs would you trust your money with? You are totally about test scores and professional designations...what a fool you are...


Also, I've noticed that you only have input in the 'rookies' forum...is that so you can make yourself feel like you know something?? What a joke you are.

Jun 16, 2005 11:22 pm
Put Trader:



Standards, it's all about standards.  That you have none does not mean that the rest of us don't think there should be some.

Basically somebody such as me--with an education and who values education--will favor higher standards than the bulk of the cretins who leave their brain farts on this forum.  As we figured out a month or so ago many--perhaps most--of those who post here are not motivated enough to finish an undergraduate degree much less an advanced degree.

They also pride themselves on their low scores on Series 7.
[/quote]


Put, I do have standards, and if I were a client and you were a prospective investment advisor, my standards would quickly exclude you as a prospective advisor unless you did a better job of hiding your arrogant and condescending attitude.


While I've met some smart people with MBAs, I've also met some real idiots, so I think your arbitrary selection of the MBA as a yardstick for entry into the industry is ill-advised.  What's more, my experience is not limited to MBAs.  I've also met CPAs, CFPs, CFAs, and various other people with similar advanced degrees and certifications and sure enough, there are plenty of idiots and people otherwise ill-suited to this industry with such credentials.


Likewise, I've met some tremendously talented people in the industry that have non of the above certifications or advanced degrees, and it is apparent that they (1) know their business well and (2) are well supported by a loyal clientele.


I am not knocking advanced degrees and certifications, as I do carry some (although I'm sure that you've surmised by now I do not carry the hallowed MBA...I've more more important things to do with my time and I've yet to meet a prospect who indicated that they were bothered by my lack of an MBA).  At the same time, I will absolutely disagree with your entrance standards.  If we followed them, we'd have some book-smart-but-no-common-sense people in the industry, and we'd leave out some talented, caring advisors such as yours truly.


Absolutely, there are folks in this industry that do not belong, but generally, client discretion and/or a bad market will eventually weed them out.  If a client is foolish enough to hire an idiot as an advisor, then I don't want 'em anyway.  My experience with this type of client is that they generally don't listen to good advice anyway.


Oh and by the way, I missed 9 questions out of 250 on my series 7...wonder how many MBAs beat that?


Draw, cowboy.

Jun 16, 2005 11:31 pm

You know what they call the guy who finished last in medical school...doctor.

Jun 17, 2005 1:15 am
Put Trader:

 
There is no room for the "Fistfull of Forex" types in the world of decent people.





BTW, It's either fist full or a fistful... as in mouth full or a
mouthful. Out of curiosity, did you confuse decent people with human
descent. Bon nuit, put my boy.

Jun 17, 2005 7:45 am
sienna:

You know what they call the guy who finished last in medical school...doctor.





Another slacker loser who thinks that the fact that he or she passed
the exam means that they're more than a pile of garbage walking upright.



Tell me something, dear reader.  Are your standards so low that
you actually believe that the doctor who graduated last in their class
is worthy of your confidence?



A broker who cannot score at least 85 on their Series 7 is just as
likely to screw up their client's financial lives as the doctors who
barely make it out of medical school are destined to misdiagnose for
the rest of their careers.



I ask again, where is the self-esteem in finishing last in your class?

Jun 17, 2005 8:14 am

Once again Put, you've demonstrated that you can't differentiate between form and substance.  Of course, you're not alone.  In my experience, there are mission-oriented people, and there are bureaucrats.  Mission-oriented people are very much can-do types, and allow nothing to stand in the way.  Bureaucrats stand on the sideline and try to understand and define the can-do quality.  The inability to differentiate of which I speak is common among the latter. 


So stated simply in deference to you, Put, you're no better than average after all!

Jun 17, 2005 8:27 am
Starka:

Mission-oriented people are very much can-do types, and allow nothing to stand in the way. 





Ah I see.  And "mission oriented" types have as a goal to accomplish just enough to get by.



Interesting excuse for failure--"My goal was to fail, I satisfied my mission!"



Tell me somethign Starka--did your own father urge you on to
mediocrity?  Were you raised to believe that you were caplable of
doing "enough" but not much more?



Where is the self-esteem in "getting by?"