Invest a rollover!
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[quote=Primo][quote=VA Salesman] [quote=Primo][quote=VA Salesman] [quote=Primo][quote=B24]Actually, there are some annuity sub-accounts that do outperform their retail brethren (before M&E, riders, etc.). This typically happens in a bloated retail fund. I don’t have any current examples, and don’t have time to search for one, but at one time I did come across this. It happens because they are separate funds. Let’s say the retail fund is a $25B fund and the annuity subaccount is a $500mm fund. Which one has the easier time finding good ideas and making them meaningful? Also, cashflow in and out of the respective funds will have an impact on level of invested cash. So it will also vary depending on an up market or down market.
Now, I don't know if all subaccounts are managed separately from their retail funds like this. But the ones that I see frequently do maintain separate funds.[/quote] Until you can purchase the subaccount outside the annuity, this is an invalid argument. The M&E is part of the investment. Returns sans M&E may be incrementaly (sp?) better in some or maybe most cases, but the return to client is lower in every example I have seen. I invite anyone with a specific example showing I am wrong to please post it.[/quote]Do you understand that there are a LOT of people who are willing to sacrifice one thing to get another? It doesn't seem like you do. There are a LOT of people who are not interested in assuming enough risk to TRY to make a higher return when a guarantee outcome is offered to them.
[/quote] I do understand and actually agree with your post save one word. LOT. Your opinion and my opinion differ on this. While I do 10% annuities, and you do 100% annuities, most likely I am underutilizing this investment and you are overutilizing annuities. I don't believe that 100% of anyones (assuming full service brokerage that have access to various investment choices) book should be in one type of investment, unless you can do no other type of business because of your b/d or you turn away a good portion of business that the investment is not appropriate for. As far as performance of SA vs. MF, my question was in response to an earlier post that said SA's outperform MF's. This is not a performance argument. I would just like an example of the previous claim.[/quote]
You seem to form a lot of opinions, based on assumptions that haven't been verified. This makes you look more stupid than you really are. Again all bluster, no substance. Please explain assumptions that haven't been verified.
[/quote] [/quote]
How I conduct business would be a good start. You've been proven to know less than you think you know and YOU want to get in MY face? Go sling a mutual fund or something.
Just going off your own quote that you do 100% of your business in annuities. The only assumption I made was that you were being truthful. My mistake. Feel free to correct any assumptions I have made with substance, although I assume more bluster is to follow.
[quote=Primo]Just going off your own quote that you do 100% of your business in annuities. The only assumption I made was that you were being truthful. My mistake. Feel free to correct any assumptions I have made with substance, although I assume more bluster is to follow.[/quote]
Dude, you really are dumb. I sell annuities. You make assumptions about HOW I sell them. And don’t bother asking me about my business. I don’t care what you think and you’re not smart enough to understand it, obviously.
Do your cheeks hurt from blowing so hard? I’ve made no assumptions on how you do business. I wouldn’t expect you to care what I think. I am quite amused that the best description of what you do is “I sell annuities”.
[quote=Primo]Do your cheeks hurt from blowing so hard? I’ve made no assumptions on how you do business. I wouldn’t expect you to care what I think. I am quite amused that the best description of what you do is “I sell annuities”.[/quote]
What do YOU do? Do you have the guts, like me, to state what you do?
So now you want to know about my business? C'mon Bobby, you have been banned how many time under how many aliases? Is it really that important to you to keep coming back to call others dumb, while never adding any intelligent content to the conversation?
[quote=Primo]
So now you want to know about my business? C’mon Bobby, you have been banned how many time under how many aliases? Is it really that important to you to keep coming back to call others dumb, while never adding any intelligent content to the conversation?
[/quote]I knew you were a coward.
We have different opinions on what constitutes cowardice. Mine is someone throwing insults instead pointed rebuttals in an argument to deflect the conversation off course due to lacking of debating skills or facts to back their case. Guess we will have to agree to disagree.
[quote=Primo]We have different opinions on what constitutes cowardice. Mine is someone throwing insults instead pointed rebuttals in an argument to deflect the conversation off course due to lacking of debating skills or facts to back their case. Guess we will have to agree to disagree. [/quote]
ONe thing that neither of us can deny is that you don’t have the guts to tell me what you do.
It is funny that you will duck and avoid direct questions, deflect the conversation back with insults, get defensive about your position, accuse others of questions they did not ask, and then demand answers to your questions and surprise, throw more insults to try and get an answer. I will tell you what I don’t do. I don’t get banned from a forum, start my own site, run everyone off that site, and have to go back to the original site under multiple aliases to vent my frustration. I don’t use one investment for everyone. Call me old school, using suitibility to determine reccomendations. Wierd. If you want to know what I do, use the search function. It’s all there.
[quote=Borker Boy]Does anyone have a good analogy for explaining the marketlock-like features of the different VAs, i.e., show one column as the “walk-away” amount and one column as the “pension” amount, etc.?
I've never developed a good analogy for the GMIB, and most folks glaze over 45 seconds into my presentation.[/quote] Maybe this gets addressed later in the thread, there are too many post for me to closely read them all. HOWEVER, this is one I got from a wholesaler a few months ago that seems to make sense. I'm not going to completely flesh it out, but here is the jist: Most clients own their house. Every year, they get an "assessed value" on their house from the local taxing authority. Occasionally it is close to what they can actually get for the house on the open market, but frequently it is either too high or too low. The "pension" amount is kind of like your "assessed value". It is a number that is used to calculate your income benefit, just like the assessed value is used to calculate your taxes. It is NOT a number that you can automatically cash in. It has some basis to the value of the account, but it could be much higher under certain cercumstances. etc, etc. I've used it a couple of times, with more success than usual getting some understanding from the client.Weren't there rule changes recently from FINRA that mandate quite a bit more disclosure on VA's? I don't know about the rest of you, but when I sell an annuity now the client gets a form that has several blanks, like surrender schedules, rider costs, M&E costs, etc. that we fill in. I disclosed this anyway, but now it is in black and white on a separate form. EIA's are a whole different deal, but at least on the VA's the argument that the broker/advisor is not disclosing fees, surrender periods, etc. seems to be an outdated argument.
I simply tell them that they have two account values.
1) The contract value will go up and down in value based on the underlying investments. 2) The Income Benefit is your guaranteed pension which locks in any gains every quarter. When you need money... You can either walk away with your contract value, or at the very least withdrawal 5% a year off of your Income Benefit for the rest of your life regardless of what the market does.[quote=Primo]It is funny that you will duck and avoid direct questions, deflect the conversation back with insults, get defensive about your position, accuse others of questions they did not ask, and then demand answers to your questions and surprise, throw more insults to try and get an answer. I will tell you what I don’t do. I don’t get banned from a forum, start my own site, run everyone off that site, and have to go back to the original site under multiple aliases to vent my frustration. I don’t use one investment for everyone. Call me old school, using suitibility to determine reccomendations. Wierd. If you want to know what I do, use the search function. It’s all there.[/quote]
Yawwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnn
[quote=Mike Damone]I simply tell them that they have two account values.
1) The contract value will go up and down in value based on the underlying investments. 2) The Income Benefit is your guaranteed pension which locks in any gains every quarter. When you need money... You can either walk away with your contract value, or at the very least withdrawal 5% a year off of your Income Benefit for the rest of your life regardless of what the market does.[/quote]3) Those extra fees that you've been paying your broker will be turned off, immediately.