How do you pick funds - REALLY!

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Apr 13, 2007 11:57 pm


How many of them consistently beat the indices?

[/quote]



Philo - not about beating the indices. It's about providing enough return while measuring the downside so we can achieve the w/d rate that we need to or hit the lump-sum at the right time.



That 10 - 12% rate of return doesn't make a bit of difference when we're 20 yrs old & have $2000 to invest but makes all the difference in the world at 64 and 2 yrs from turning on the tap. Most people at 64 go to an overly conservative portfolio because of the downside fear - the exact opposite of what they need to do.



I want to be able to show my clients(and my boss) that within certain assumptions, we have a good and measured chance of having that happen while taking appropriate levels of risk.



Now, Bobby... Bobby will tell you that's the reason he sells 98% VA's - and only uses the fixed acct w/n them because he never sells mutual funds

Apr 14, 2007 12:19 am

No offense intended Ashland, but have you ever met a real client?



Here's the scenario:



Broker A is talking with a HNW prospect. He says, "It's not about beating

the indices. It's about providing enough return while measuring the

downside so we can achieve the w/d rate that we need to or hit the lump-

sum at the right time.



That 10 - 12% rate of return doesn't make a bit of difference when we're

20 yrs old & have $2000 to invest but makes all the difference in the

world at 64 and 2 yrs from turning on the tap. Most people at 64 go to an

overly conservative portfolio because of the downside fear - the exact

opposite of what they need to do. "



Broker B says, "Look. We can buy individual issues or ETFs. We can

establish a stop/loss base 15% below current prices, and move them up

as the stock or ETF moves up. That way, if there's a fallout 15% or

greater, you're on the sidelines in cash, locking in a large portion of your

gains. What you're left with are investments that haven't fallen, and a pile

of cash from those that have."



Do you honestly think that Broker A is going to get the business?



I don't think so.

Apr 14, 2007 12:27 am
Philo Kvetch:

No offense intended Ashland, but have you ever met a real client?



Here's the scenario:



Broker A is talking with a HNW prospect. He says, "It's not about beating

the indices. It's about providing enough return while measuring the

downside so we can achieve the w/d rate that we need to or hit the lump-

sum at the right time.



That 10 - 12% rate of return doesn't make a bit of difference when we're

20 yrs old & have $2000 to invest but makes all the difference in the

world at 64 and 2 yrs from turning on the tap. Most people at 64 go to an

overly conservative portfolio because of the downside fear - the exact

opposite of what they need to do. "



Broker B says, "Look. We can buy individual issues or ETFs. We can

establish a stop/loss base 15% below current prices, and move them up

as the stock or ETF moves up. That way, if there's a fallout 15% or

greater, you're on the sidelines in cash, locking in a large portion of your

gains. What you're left with are investments that haven't fallen, and a pile

of cash from those that have."



Do you honestly think that Broker A is going to get the business?



I don't think so.





We obviously live in different world. I'm a bank-based rep & you live in Wirehouse/Indy-ville. I take 3 - 4 of your $200 - $500K clients ever quarter because you can't do what you're talking about with them.

Apr 14, 2007 12:32 am

And what makes you think that I can't?



I can do it in a managed account at say 1.25%, and still blow the doors off of

your MFD portfolio from a cost standpoint. You can't take the client,

because the client is making more in up years, and losing nothing in down

years.

Apr 14, 2007 1:30 am
Ashland:




We obviously live in different world. I'm a bank-based rep &
you live in Wirehouse/Indy-ville. I take 3 - 4 of your $200 - $500K
clients ever quarter because you can't do what you're talking about
with them.





And then the plucky little RIA says that bank brokers have the lowest
payouts in the industry and so they push the highest comission products
(VA's and A-shares) to make up for it. Meanwhile the private
banking/trust folks try to keep as much money as possible tied up in
deposits.



Banks have no business with money.



Meanwhile the 5 years +/- retirement are the "red zone" where you need
to be extra cautious, untill the retirement situation stabilises.

Apr 14, 2007 2:02 am
Ashland:
Philo Kvetch:

No offense intended Ashland, but have you ever met a real client?

Here's the scenario:

Broker A is talking with a HNW prospect. He says, "It's not about beating
the indices. It's about providing enough return while measuring the
downside so we can achieve the w/d rate that we need to or hit the lump-
sum at the right time.

That 10 - 12% rate of return doesn't make a bit of difference when we're
20 yrs old & have $2000 to invest but makes all the difference in the
world at 64 and 2 yrs from turning on the tap. Most people at 64 go to an
overly conservative portfolio because of the downside fear - the exact
opposite of what they need to do. "

Broker B says, "Look. We can buy individual issues or ETFs. We can
establish a stop/loss base 15% below current prices, and move them up
as the stock or ETF moves up. That way, if there's a fallout 15% or
greater, you're on the sidelines in cash, locking in a large portion of your
gains. What you're left with are investments that haven't fallen, and a pile
of cash from those that have."

Do you honestly think that Broker A is going to get the business?

I don't think so.



We obviously live in different world. I'm a bank-based rep & you live in Wirehouse/Indy-ville. I take 3 - 4 of your $200 - $500K clients ever quarter because you can't do what you're talking about with them.


I had a feeling you were gay. What bank do you work for?

Apr 14, 2007 7:55 am
Bobby Hull:
Ashland:
Philo Kvetch:

No offense intended Ashland, but have you ever met a real client? Here's the scenario: Broker A is talking with a HNW prospect. He says, "It's not about beating the indices. It's about providing enough return while measuring the downside so we can achieve the w/d rate that we need to or hit the lump- sum at the right time. That 10 - 12% rate of return doesn't make a bit of difference when we're 20 yrs old & have $2000 to invest but makes all the difference in the world at 64 and 2 yrs from turning on the tap. Most people at 64 go to an overly conservative portfolio because of the downside fear - the exact opposite of what they need to do. " Broker B says, "Look. We can buy individual issues or ETFs. We can establish a stop/loss base 15% below current prices, and move them up as the stock or ETF moves up. That way, if there's a fallout 15% or greater, you're on the sidelines in cash, locking in a large portion of your gains. What you're left with are investments that haven't fallen, and a pile of cash from those that have." Do you honestly think that Broker A is going to get the business? I don't think so.

We obviously live in different world. I'm a bank-based rep & you live in Wirehouse/Indy-ville. I take 3 - 4 of your $200 - $500K clients ever quarter because you can't do what you're talking about with them.



I had a feeling you were gay. What bank do you work for?





USB

Apr 14, 2007 9:43 am
Philo Kvetch:

No offense intended Ashland, but have you ever met a real client?



Here's the scenario:



Broker A is talking with a HNW prospect. He says, "It's not about beating

the indices. It's about providing enough return while measuring the

downside so we can achieve the w/d rate that we need to or hit the lump-

sum at the right time.



That 10 - 12% rate of return doesn't make a bit of difference when we're

20 yrs old & have $2000 to invest but makes all the difference in the

world at 64 and 2 yrs from turning on the tap. Most people at 64 go to an

overly conservative portfolio because of the downside fear - the exact

opposite of what they need to do. "



Broker B says, "Look. We can buy individual issues or ETFs. We can

establish a stop/loss base 15% below current prices, and move them up

as the stock or ETF moves up. That way, if there's a fallout 15% or

greater, you're on the sidelines in cash, locking in a large portion of your

gains. What you're left with are investments that haven't fallen, and a pile

of cash from those that have."



Do you honestly think that Broker A is going to get the business?



I don't think so.





So you lose 15%, when do you get back in? I guarantee you miss it. I take an avg. of 5 clients per month from the wirehouses every month, north of 200K.   Here are the bigger transfers I have done this month, we are only half way through April:



750K-Wachovia

500K -Merrill

300K - SB

225K - Merrill

200K - Merrill

Apr 14, 2007 10:22 am

So you lose 15%, when do you get back in? I guarantee you miss it. I take

an avg. of 5 clients per month from the wirehouses every month, north of

200K.   Here are the bigger transfers I have done this month, we are only

half way through April:



750K-Wachovia

500K -Merrill

300K - SB

225K - Merrill

200K - Merrill"

____________________________________________________________ __

Of course you do.



Where did I say I lose 15%? If your reading comprehension is no better

than that, I suggest you stay at the bank and continue to 'put up those

big numbers'.

Apr 14, 2007 12:07 pm
bankrep1:
Philo Kvetch:

No offense intended Ashland, but have you ever met a real client?

Here's the scenario:

Broker A is talking with a HNW prospect. He says, "It's not about beating
the indices. It's about providing enough return while measuring the
downside so we can achieve the w/d rate that we need to or hit the lump-
sum at the right time.

That 10 - 12% rate of return doesn't make a bit of difference when we're
20 yrs old & have $2000 to invest but makes all the difference in the
world at 64 and 2 yrs from turning on the tap. Most people at 64 go to an
overly conservative portfolio because of the downside fear - the exact
opposite of what they need to do. "

Broker B says, "Look. We can buy individual issues or ETFs. We can
establish a stop/loss base 15% below current prices, and move them up
as the stock or ETF moves up. That way, if there's a fallout 15% or
greater, you're on the sidelines in cash, locking in a large portion of your
gains. What you're left with are investments that haven't fallen, and a pile
of cash from those that have."

Do you honestly think that Broker A is going to get the business?

I don't think so.



So you lose 15%, when do you get back in? I guarantee you miss it. I take an avg. of 5 clients per month from the wirehouses every month, north of 200K.   Here are the bigger transfers I have done this month, we are only half way through April:

750K-Wachovia
500K -Merrill
300K - SB
225K - Merrill
200K - Merrill


You're a liar.

Apr 14, 2007 6:02 pm

Here are the bigger transfers I have done this month, we are only half way through April:



750K-Wachovia

500K -Merrill

300K - SB

225K - Merrill

200K - Merrill

[/quote]



   The bank biz is high volume, but that's really high there!

Apr 14, 2007 7:20 pm

For you rookies, I have been at the same desk for over 4 years, I pull in over 2 Mil. every month consistently. I certainly did not start out at this volume. Believe what you want, the only one I am out to impress is myself of course.

Apr 14, 2007 7:54 pm

At bank payout rates, you'd better be doing numbers that good or better.



That assumes, of course, that you're not fibbing.

Apr 14, 2007 8:08 pm

Philo out payout if your doing over 400K is 38% + bonuses starting at 500K

Apr 15, 2007 12:47 am
Philo Kvetch:




Where did I say I lose 15%? If your reading comprehension is no better

than that, I suggest you stay at the bank and continue to 'put up those

big numbers'.





Cmon' Ashland is an insecure bank rep. Humor him.



However, he is right that it is fairly easy to take business from ML
and other wires. Bank brokers have time to service clients at thier
desk, vs the wire brokers who are constantly moving for the next kill.

Apr 15, 2007 2:29 am

Cmon' Ashland is an insecure bank rep. Humor him.



However, he is right that it is fairly easy to take business from ML

and other wires. Bank brokers have time to service clients at thier

desk, vs the wire brokers who are constantly moving for the next kill.

[/quote]



Allreit - All of us are constantly moving for the next kill, but you got it right. Because I know where the money is & I get to deal with so many more people than you do I get to spend more time with each of them. Therefore I get to do the retirement, insurance, etc. planning that you find it difficult to do for my the $200 - $500K customer. And don't think I'm not chasing your $2MM customer, too! I do $800 - $1MM in packaged product sales on a monthly basis & easily add $500K to wrap products monthly.



If any of you are looking for an easier way to do this that will get you to your goals faster - pm me!

Apr 15, 2007 3:45 am

 I love it.  


Ashland is cool.


Apr 15, 2007 4:31 am
Ashland:

Allreit - All of us are constantly moving for the next
kill, but you got it right. Because I know where the money is & I
get to deal with so many more people than you do I get to spend more
time with each of them. Therefore I get to do the retirement,
insurance, etc. planning that you find it difficult to do for my the
$200 - $500K customer.





I'm an RIA, I do only investment management/planniong. I collect my 1%
and I don't care who does the rest. Most of my book is either
sophisticated enough, or naive but wary enough not to fall for all the
crap sold by "financial advisors" be they at a bank or at brokerage.



In my experience, bank brokers tend to push lots of high commision products and/or keep lots of money tied up in bank deposits. I get a kick whenever I see annuity brochures next to brochures advertising CD's at better rates.



The whole idea of investing in a contract where the sponsor gets to pick the crediting rate is stupid on its face. An annuity is basicly locking yourself into an assured below market rate. It's a dumb idea, and anyone who sells a 5 year annuity when 5 year CD is available, is a crook.

Apr 15, 2007 4:38 am

But many bank customers likely just want peace of mind, and don't really give a rip about the details.

Apr 15, 2007 8:42 am
AllREIT:
Ashland:

Allreit - All of us are constantly moving for the next

kill, but you got it right. Because I know where the money is & I

get to deal with so many more people than you do I get to spend more

time with each of them. Therefore I get to do the retirement,

insurance, etc. planning that you find it difficult to do for my the

$200 - $500K customer.




I'm an RIA, I do only investment management/planniong. I collect my 1%

and I don't care who does the rest. Most of my book is either

sophisticated enough, or naive but wary enough not to fall for all the

crap sold by "financial advisors" be they at a bank or at brokerage.



In my experience, bank brokers tend to push lots of high commision products and/or keep lots of money tied up in bank deposits. I get a kick whenever I see annuity brochures next to brochures advertising CD's at better rates.



The whole idea of investing in a contract where the sponsor gets to pick the crediting rate is stupid on its face. An annuity is basicly locking yourself into an assured below market rate. It's a dumb idea, and anyone who sells a 5 year annuity when 5 year CD is available, is a crook.





I know some banks still have the annuity pushers, but I think you would be suprised at what some reps are doing in banks. Management in most cases wants advisors not annuity sales people.